Ren'Py Apartment #69 [v0.09] [Luxee]

[fried]

A lot of complaining that Nea's "bad path" option was implicitly selfish, etc. It just doesn't jibe with what is going through someone's mind when a spur-of-the-moment issue tips their already-fragile sense of existence onto the side of wanting to feel nothing and act upon that. So, I'll support my perspective on that below using information from the game's events ...

Before getting into this, some real-world background context is that Nea's life had become intrinsically associated with a traditionally hated - and I mean, to absolutely ridiculous extents in societies across the world - demographic. Luxee's reasonably representative portrayal of a very small microcosm of what many teen trans folk go through (e.g., the bullying, isolation, low self-esteem, depression, etc.) gives us a character who is fragile from the start. But, things were even worse, we later learn - and that's a significant factor for the "bad path" happening, I feel.

Recall that Nea's "bad path" was set in motion when you accidentally caught her masturbating in the apartment with your underwear ... and then you left without saying a word.

To Nea, (as expressed in the parallel "romance path") we learn that she felt it was a moment where her only friendship and lifeline to the world was thrown away and completely her fault. How do we know this? Because of what happened to her socially at the school after being caught doing the same thing.

But the difference in this case is that she saw you as her only lifeline to the world as a woman and whole person, and that her actions would lead to being shunned, mocked and rejected by you - like when she was caught at school:

Spoiler: game snippets

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She even wrote "Sorry" in her note - she was feeling like she let you down too much, was now too much of a burden to remain friends, etc.

In the "romance path" you manage to talk her down with a promise to profess your love, but the interesting thing is that she expresses surprise at this and has a difficult time processing it: romance wasn't the point of her suicide.

In the "bad path" Nea didn't die because you decided to be friends, she was already on the way. She died because of a sad history that finally hit a breaking point where she saw no hope for connection to the world as the person she knew herself to be - due to her actions. It's incredibly tragic, but unless Luxee decides to retcon this path, it also bring home quite heavily the difficulty of being trans in society and how tragedy can be right around the corner for that demographic more often than almost any other major grouping of people we know.

So, why did Luxee have Nea apparently jump offscreen if you decided that her being trans was too much of an inhibitor for being closer than friends? Doesn't that deflate everyone's wishes who wanted to keep her in their orbit, just not romantically?

We don't know, but it's possible that your timing of getting back to see her at the apartment was a bit less urgent than in the romance route - because even in the "romance path" it's only dumb luck that you got to her in time.

Can you be disappointed by this turn of events in the "bad path"? Yes, certainly. But Luxee didn't pull the rug out: he probably formed this path from difficult inspiration related to the what is possible when being a trans person today - he may be making a statement, portraying an accurate representation of a difficult character's life, a bit of both - it's all reasonable.

Is it equivalent to burning a character to death unexpectedly? Not at all, because in this case, it actually has sensible context.

 

[alex2011]

The trans character isn't even THE MAIN it's just one option of LI's in a sea of them!

She is not the main one, yes but the most popular one I think, hence the most content in the game so far.

Not the main by the original setup, things changed to make Nea the main focus.

Most popular based on what? A vocal minority? The dev's recent obsession with trans characters? (he even shoe horned one very late into his more infamous incest game).

The character cant be that huge a hit if he's having to return to his bigger title again despite it being well and truly dubbed as complete (and now this one is dubbed abandoned lol). That's the roll of the dice if you want to push a niche interest character as the majority who don't like Trans stuff will simply skip the content and if they ain't getting much else to retain their interest then the game isn't gonna blow up like the first one did. As for main one status the only one that really fits the bill is the smol sister - the older one has barely had a look in, the mom even less - Millie has gotten far more love than those two. All in all its hard to really say there IS a main character as the games been disjointed from the offset with characters coming in randomly and content for any of them is beyond prediction.

Maybe it really is as simple as the Dev wanted to do something different with this one vs Parental Love after spending so long on it but its not had the success he would have liked. He has the token taboo characters sure but theyve been so underdeveloped and rushed pace wise no one really cares about them as hes not given them nearly enough of a storyline to invest in them (the smol sister is from offset super horny, the mom off the bat is an in the know cuckqueen trying to get her kids to breed and the older sister who is actually amongst the few better written is unfortunately a tsundere... tsundere sisters are a dime a dozen in these types of games)

Vocal minority? Not sure where you got that, but most players like Nea. The vocal minority are the ones celebrating the suicide. It also is not a recent obsession, Luxee had a trans character in Parental Love.

Luxee returned to Parental Love because he was not satisfied with the amount of work put into it already, he wanted to add more content. A work is only truly complete, contrary to the complete tag here, when the developer says it is and Luxee said he wanted to add more.

This game only got the abandoned tag by a technicality, the site only looks in certain places for activity, places where Luxee was not being active for over three months, so the game got the abandoned tag. The game is still on hold and Luxee was active, just not on his Patreon.

I haven't read anyone demanding anything. But I haven't read all the comments on the thread either.



I'm not going to say if she's the most popular (I'm not interested in her as a romance character, but this doesn't say anything), what is true is that she's the one with the most content.

I think he means the people upset by the suicide, that's not a demand, that's people voicing their opposition, which is not the same.

Nea is, by far, the most popular character in the game and for good reason despite Nea's terrible development so far.

For people that know the background, they know Nea is the unofficial main love interest. Without her I don't think Luxee would have made this game. Although I don't think people expected her to be so central and to get so much focus early on. The game itself is presented as having many love interests, with a good range of characters and kinks like Incest and Loli. For someone just playing the game without context, Nea seems like no more or no less than another love interest, which makes the focus on her more confusing for them.

I don't know if we have anyway to know how popular Nea is. Certainly there are a lot of fans of her who are very vocal. In a poll, she might win because she wins the vote of the trans fans, while the rest of the vote would probably be split for other characters. Most people don't seem to go around and announce their favorite character in a game either unless it's a loli, trans character, or something out of the norm. At least that's been my experience. I have favorite characters in other games, and will mention them if the subject comes up, but people will just randomly post their love for Nea or one of the lolis in this game. As for me, I don't really know enough about most characters, even six updates in, to say that I have a favorite, although I do have some, like Alicia that I can say will likely never be popular with me.

No, I can at least say that I did not expect it, the original setup was more generalized like a usual sandbox and the mother is central on most out of game materials even today.

We do, just look at the amount of pro-Nea talk that goes on, and it isn't just a select few going on and on about Nea, either.

Luxee or any other dev can make the game they want, within certain limits. If they've promised a game where Nea or incest or loli is optional, but it isn't, then they need to deal with that. Any promises they made to paying supporters either need to be met, or at least the dev needs to explain why the promises weren't kept and deal with the circumstances. Let's say that Luxee says "You know what, screw it. This Nea thing is too much trouble. She dies in every version of the game in this next update."

Some people would cheer. Let's ignore them. A good number would go "that's kind of extreme. At least give her a happy exit from the story or something." And of course some would just lose their shit and you'd see some of Luxee's biggest fans turn into his biggest detractors.

And I can say she's the main love interest based on the preponderance of evidence and the fact that so much of the game has to pass through her. I don't see stuff that Luxee adds later changing that.



I'll fully agree on this. My favorites have changed in other games after an update if they suddenly changed the character's backstory on me, of if she did something awful to the MC or someone else, or any number of other reasons. Right now there isn't much content for other characters, and I don't really see Luxee lavishing too much attention on the other characters. Nea is their favorite and focus, and I think they want to power through Nea's story as much as possible because that's what interests them. But then they'll look back at the work they still have to do with the other characters they never really cared about and try to find inspiration. I kind of suspect they don't want to make any of the other character too interesting, because in their mind Nea must be the hands-down best girl in the game.

Exactly, if Luxee says he will do something, he has to do it. This is not the same as just simply doing what the players want, at that point he has committed to something and he has to follow through. The point at which he does not have to do it is before committing, when he can just say no outright instead.

Quite frankly, killing Nea off means the haters won, they WANTED Nea to have a bad end, that was their whole point in pestering the game and its developer so much with hateful comments, to get a reaction out of Luxee that would hurt Nea's development as a character, and that is exactly what they got. A happy exit would have prevented them from getting something to celebrate, a happy exit would have meant no victory for them.

I have to agree on that third point, there is way too much reliance requirement wise for other characters and way too much development going into Nea for Nea to NOT be the main.

I can say I am very different with favorite characters. I am an extreme loyalist, my favorites don't change, I have been a fan of the same characters in every game I play throughout development. Even characters that do something bad, I don't like them any less, it actually proves to strengthen them as a favorite because any reaction I give is proof of how well they are written.

The problem always seems to be with people's expectations with what a dev's responsibilities may be. The idea with Patreon or SS is that people seek out creations that interest them and help fund further creations. The creator makes what they want, and if you don't like it, don't give them money. There are gray areas where the creator is less than honest about what they're working on or how much they're working on it, and I totally get supporters being upset about that since they were paying for something based on a false premise. Aside from that, though, creators aren't beholden to their patrons any more than a street musician is beholden to the demands of people tossing change into their guitar case.

Not in this case, this case is a matter of a clash between what Luxee said and what Luxee did. Luxee said there would be a friendship route, we got a death route in its place and there has been nothing to say this death route was not implemented in place of the friendship route, as opposed to being an entirely separate third route, or that the friendship route is still in the works.

A developer can make whatever they want, but only until they commit to something like Luxee did, then they either have to do it or they have to take the inevitable upset and outright say they changed their mind, the best time for which is before the content comes out.

 

[jaw1986baby]

Is it equivalent to burning a character to death unexpectedly? Not at all, because in this case, it actually has sensible context.

I agree largely overall with your post. I reduced the post down to one particular part because I most very especially agree with this. That burning was horrendous, uncalled for, didn't aid the plot or the character's depth. Nea's tragedy fits the depth of her and her struggles perfectly (as you point out) and it can simplify Nea love or Nea gone for the time being and Luxee can always come back to Nea friends later after all the lewd paths. Since the divide seems to be WANT Nea versus NO THANKS and there are not a lot of "Hey I really want that friend path". From my limited observation of course. I do sub Luxee (on and off) and I am on the Discord for whatever that is worth.







PEACE

 

[BurnerGuy]

I agree largely overall with your post. I reduced the post down to one particular part because I most very especially agree with this. That burning was horrendous, uncalled for, didn't aid the plot or the character's depth. Nea's tragedy fits the depth of her and her struggles perfectly (as you point out) and it can simplify Nea love or Nea gone for the time being and Luxee can always come back to Nea friends later after all the lewd paths. Since the divide seems to be WANT Nea versus NO THANKS and there are not a lot of "Hey I really want that friend path". From my limited observation of course. I do sub Luxee (on and off) and I am on the Discord for whatever that is worth.







PEACE

What game had a character burn to death??

 

[lemonfreak]

What game had a character burn to death??

Acting Lessons

 

[Hellster]

Personally i would have preferred a friend path, rather than the options given.
Being her friend with no romantic involvement would have been preferred.

 

[Corambis]

That's a slippery slide, saying that Luxee has to do something because people pay. That leads to peple saying they have full right to demand things to be added or removed on a whim just because there's something they don't like or something they want, which means it's no longer Luxee's game but the patrons.
And unless Luxee specifically said that people donating (and I'll insist on the meaning of the word "donating", as in not forced, voluntary and optional) any amount of money can have a say on what the game has added or removed, cattering to any whim is a very dangerous game. With so many diffeing opinions, it can only lead to an absolute mess with no coherence that keeps changing without logic.
As for the "promises"... it's a bit of a nebilous one as well. Amateur games with a Patreon/SS aren't a contract of " Dev : Pay me, and I'll make the game ou want | Supporter : Ok here take my money". It's a relationship of "Dev : I'm making this game | Supporter : Looks interesting, let me help you pay for help and bills". Like I mentionned before, supporters aren't shareholders.
If Luxee said something but ultimately his story can't flow like they want without a character some people never want to see ever... Who's really to blame ? Luxee for trying to build the story they envision, or the haters who'd rather force them to modify their story even if it ruins its flow ?

At some point, people need to grow thicker skin and stop flying into a fit anytime a theme they don't like is added, like they are absolutely incapable of just skiping over it like ripping a bandaid off...

This isn't a donation situation. People are paying their money each month in exchange for various things promised in each tier. Most devs don't publicly release their games; you have to pay. If they do release them, it's an older version or a stripped down one. If the dev were just looking for someone to pay their bills, they'd be on a site like gofundme. Instead, they're on patreon or subscribestar and saying "give me X each month and in return you get Y". The warm fuzzy feeling of helping pay their bills is in there, but that's not why most people support devs any more than my employer is interested in donating money to me each paycheck to help pay my bills. It's an exchange.

In many of theses cases, part of the exchange is an express or implied influence on the game itself. You're given advance news on the game itself. You're being literally presold on what's coming for the game. In Luxee's case, people were a little worried about Luxee focusing on a trans character in the next game, but Luxee assured everyone that her content would be optional. So far it's not really, and you're guilt-tripped if you don't go the romance route. Luxee also has all of these characters out there, but if they finish with Nea because that's where their interest is and just starts cutting other characters because they don't feel like doing it, I'd argue that's not a good move on their part. Maybe not illegal, but also not cool.

Note: Edited above paragraph to add text at the end I somehow lost on posting.

A lot of complaining that Nea's "bad path" option was implicitly selfish, etc. It just doesn't jibe with what is going through someone's mind when a spur-of-the-moment issue tips their already-fragile sense of existence onto the side of wanting to feel nothing and act upon that. So, I'll support my perspective on that below using information from the game's events ...

Before getting into this, some real-world background context is that Nea's life had become intrinsically associated with a traditionally hated - and I mean, to absolutely ridiculous extents in societies across the world - demographic. Luxee's reasonably representative portrayal of a very small microcosm of what many teen trans folk go through (e.g., the bullying, isolation, low self-esteem, depression, etc.) gives us a character who is fragile from the start. But, things were even worse, we later learn - and that's a significant factor for the "bad path" happening, I feel.

Recall that Nea's "bad path" was set in motion when you accidentally caught her masturbating in the apartment with your underwear ... and then you left without saying a word.

To Nea, (as expressed in the parallel "romance path") we learn that she felt it was a moment where her only friendship and lifeline to the world was thrown away and completely her fault. How do we know this? Because of what happened to her socially at the school after being caught doing the same thing.

But the difference in this case is that she saw you as her only lifeline to the world as a woman and whole person, and that her actions would lead to being shunned, mocked and rejected by you - like when she was caught at school:

Spoiler: game snippets

You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.

She even wrote "Sorry" in her note - she was feeling like she let you down too much, was now too much of a burden to remain friends, etc.

In the "romance path" you manage to talk her down with a promise to profess your love, but the interesting thing is that she expresses surprise at this and has a difficult time processing it: romance wasn't the point of her suicide.

In the "bad path" Nea didn't die because you decided to be friends, she was already on the way. She died because of a sad history that finally hit a breaking point where she saw no hope for connection to the world as the person she knew herself to be - due to her actions. It's incredibly tragic, but unless Luxee decides to retcon this path, it also bring home quite heavily the difficulty of being trans in society and how tragedy can be right around the corner for that demographic more often than almost any other major grouping of people we know.

So, why did Luxee have Nea apparently jump offscreen if you decided that her being trans was too much of an inhibitor for being closer than friends? Doesn't that deflate everyone's wishes who wanted to keep her in their orbit, just not romantically?

We don't know, but it's possible that your timing of getting back to see her at the apartment was a bit less urgent than in the romance route - because even in the "romance path" it's only dumb luck that you got to her in time.

Can you be disappointed by this turn of events in the "bad path"? Yes, certainly. But Luxee didn't pull the rug out: he probably formed this path from difficult inspiration related to the what is possible when being a trans person today - he may be making a statement, portraying an accurate representation of a difficult character's life, a bit of both - it's all reasonable.

Is it equivalent to burning a character to death unexpectedly? Not at all, because in this case, it actually has sensible context.

You make a good point, but I don't know if Nea's suicide can be said to be consistent with that of most trans youths. Obviously, suicide is a huge issue among younger trans people, and its fair game to touch upon that in any kind of story that features a trans character. But it needs to be handled with care, which I don't really think it was. Nea doesn't kill herself ultimately because she's trans, or at least in my passive interpretation of the events. She kills herself because she was rejected. Of course, we'll read into it what we want, and I can't say I'm right with any certainty.

Even if we say that Nea killing herself makes sense in the context of being a trans youth who was rejected by her crush, or even without that, Luxee forces us into that situation. The player doesn't make any choices that lead to the masturbation scene, or in leaving without saying a word. The choice comes after the fact, and it's a poorly phrased question about whether you're interested in pursuing Nea romantically or not. At least I think it is, because I'm honestly still not sure. But either way, we're forced into a situation where we basically have to choose between becoming romantically involved with Nea, or her killing herself. Except at the time it didn't seem more than "I'm opting out of the sex stuff, but still want to be friends". Now, if the player was allowed to make any decisions leading up to this that led Nea on, or led directly to the masturbation scene, I'd be more inclined to agree with you. I'd still argue the suicide feels out of place in it's context, and the suicide of a trans character specifically was handled very poorly. I'll go back to the fact that unless Nea's suicide is inevitable in every path, the paths that should lead to it should be the ones where the player lets Nea get bullied, or bullies her herself, or through player choice misleads her about their relationship. To have the friendship path be the one that kills her doesn't seem right, especially when presumably not saving her from bullying results in a worse situation. Of course, the romance path where presumably the MC romances her and screws or even romances other women doesn't seem like that's going to go too well for Nea either. If rejection is bad, being cheated on and betrayed is going to be far worse. I just don't see Nea being okay with being part of a harem, and honestly, even though I'm not the one to give her a romance path myself, it seems like she deserves better out of life and better than the MC.

 

[Hellster]

This isn't a donation situation. People are paying their money each month in exchange for various things promised in each tier. Most devs don't publicly release their games; you have to pay. If they do release them, it's an older version or a stripped down one. If the dev were just looking for someone to pay their bills, they'd be on a site like gofundme. Instead, they're on patreon or subscribestar and saying "give me X each month and in return you get Y". The warm fuzzy feeling of helping pay their bills is in there, but that's not why most people support devs any more than my employer is interested in donating money to me each paycheck to help pay my bills. It's an exchange.

In many of theses cases, part of the exchange is an express or implied influence on the game itself. You're given advance news on the game itself. You're being literally presold on what's coming for the game. In Luxee's case, people were a little worried about Luxee focusing on a trans character in the next game, but Luxee assured everyone that her content would be optional. For the fan that played the first few updates and


You make a good point, but I don't know if Nea's suicide can be said to be consistent with that of most trans youths. Obviously, suicide is a huge issue among younger trans people, and its fair game to touch upon that in any kind of story that features a trans character. But it needs to be handled with care, which I don't really think it was. Nea doesn't kill herself ultimately because she's trans, or at least in my passive interpretation of the events. She kills herself because she was rejected. Of course, we'll read into it what we want, and I can't say I'm right with any certainty.

Even if we say that Nea killing herself makes sense in the context of being a trans youth who was rejected by her crush, or even without that, Luxee forces us into that situation. The player doesn't make any choices that lead to the masturbation scene, or in leaving without saying a word. The choice comes after the fact, and it's a poorly phrased question about whether you're interested in pursuing Nea romantically or not. At least I think it is, because I'm honestly still not sure. But either way, we're forced into a situation where we basically have to choose between becoming romantically involved with Nea, or her killing herself. Except at the time it didn't seem more than "I'm opting out of the sex stuff, but still want to be friends". Now, if the player was allowed to make any decisions leading up to this that led Nea on, or led directly to the masturbation scene, I'd be more inclined to agree with you. I'd still argue the suicide feels out of place in it's context, and the suicide of a trans character specifically was handled very poorly. I'll go back to the fact that unless Nea's suicide is inevitable in every path, the paths that should lead to it should be the ones where the player lets Nea get bullied, or bullies her herself, or through player choice misleads her about their relationship. To have the friendship path be the one that kills her doesn't seem right, especially when presumably not saving her from bullying results in a worse situation. Of course, the romance path where presumably the MC romances her and screws or even romances other women doesn't seem like that's going to go too well for Nea either. If rejection is bad, being cheated on and betrayed is going to be far worse. I just don't see Nea being okay with being part of a harem, and honestly, even though I'm not the one to give her a romance path myself, it seems like she deserves better out of life and better than the MC.

Yeah the player (MC) really got thrown in the deep end with this, you only really have 2 choices, get involved romantically with Nea, or don't, one leads to suicide, and the other leads you to being romantically involved with someone you may not want to be.
If you get immersed in to the game and the story, the player is made to feel like an asshole if you let her die, but on the other hand you might just want to stay friends with Nea without the romantic involvement, but you don't get that choice.
So you're damned if you do, and damned if you don't, you're forced to make either of the 2 choices which you might not want.

 

[Corambis]

Yeah the player (MC) really got thrown in the deep end with this, you only really have 2 choices, get involved romantically with Nea, or don't, one leads to suicide, and the other leads you to being romantically involved with someone you may not want to be.
If you get immersed in to the game and the story, the player is made to feel like an asshole if you let her die, but on the other hand you might just want to stay friends with Nea without the romantic involvement, but you don't get that choice.
So you're damned if you do, and damned if you don't, you're forced to make either of the 2 choices which you might not want.

Yeah, that's the dilemma a lot of people are in. They made the choices that felt right to them. Stop people from bullying Nea, and befriend her. But then be railroaded into a scenario without your control, and then be punished for what wasn't a wrong choice at all. But at the same time, you have the MC being this nice, sweet guy to Nea actually without any apparently ulterior motive, while most of the time looking at any other girl and wanting to hit that harder than Chris Rock's face. The MC is living two lives, and I don't see them integrating too well so it still feels like I'm playing two games at once. Maybe Nea's death and the disparate natures of the MC depending on if he's with Nea or pretty much anyone else. He's nice to other girls, but seems to be part of the plan to seduce them. With Nea it was just him being nice. So we see the MC honestly being a good guy, and not thinking with his dick, and it gets someone killed, again because of choices made by Luxee and not the player that led to a choice that shouldn't have resulted in Nea's death, but did because that's how Luxee decided it was going to be.

 

[DiscussSnake]

Most popular based on what? A vocal minority? The dev's recent obsession with trans characters? (he even shoe horned one very late into his more infamous incest game).

Well, I said that 'I think' in my comment based on the content she has over other girls in the game. Also, Why is it have to be an obsession when the dev put a trans character in the game. Sound like you have a personal problem with it.
I don't know Luxee personally whatever he is have a fetish toward trans girl, have a trans friend, or is trans himself I don't know. Something I know is that I don't care which is which. If Luxee wants to put any type of fetish in his game he can damn well should do whatever he wants.

Not necessarily the most popular. People are really split on her. Part of the fanbase loves her, the other hates her and want her gone. There doesn't seem to be much in the middle. I'd say she's probably more controversial.

Well famous and infamous is just two sides of the same coin.
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I wanna make a comment about Nea and trans women. I know a bit about trans people, but not sure if I know enough about the subject. Regardless I still wanna share my opinion about it and I also open to criticism if I get anything wrong.

In general, I think being trans woman is harder than trans man. Society treated trans women worst than trans men just like gay guys are treated worst than lesbians. I think it is because society generally hates anything deviating from masculinity. Secondly, hormone therapy would change the trans man's voice, given facial hair, and adam's apple. No one can distinguish cis man and trans man who taking hrt more than 6 months without they telling it. It is not quite the same with trans woman when their hrt won't change their voice and the adam's apple will stay forever without surgery if it is already too late.

Fortunately for Nea case, she got her hrt early but that was not all that would make it easy for her. She has an abusive father that doesn't accept her identity and she got bullied in school for her identity. Her early hrt not gonna hide and protect her from being bullied if everyone knows about it. Those rejection and bullying is can cause harm mentally to everyone especially if it aims directly at your identity as a human being.

I don't wanna argue with anyone if they don't like Nea and wish her off the game. I also understand the criticism about Nea suicide off-screen if you didn't romance her. I don't know if that is the correct thing to write, I'm not sure myself. I just wanna make a comment about Nea and trans women in general so maybe help people understand more about her character.

 

[Darklord1234]

See that's just it. I do not care if it was "justified" by real shit and how it is to be trans. It is written and handled poorly. It literally makes a character I love into one I hate because anyone who does that to someone ( i.e. leave them to feel responsible for their suicide) is regardless of all else...a piece of shit imo. I can understand the pain. Believe me. But I will die on the hill of anyone who does it (suicide), especially in such a manner, to do such devastation to a friend or lover is a selfish piece of shit who never really loved the other person in the first place. It isn't just that she did it but HOW she did it. It's horrible. She did it in such a way as to have maximum negative impact on the MC. And again yes, I understand most suicides are an impulse decision in the moment. That does not change her actions into martyrdom. Is it realistic? Yes. I'm not arguing that and never have been. I am just upset the dev made a character I truly loved into one I no longer do. With that one stupid scene.

 

[fried]

She kills herself because she was rejected. Of course, we'll read into it what we want, and I can't say I'm right with any certainty.

Per my point, this seems incorrect:

At the beginning of the game, Nea is already a depressed, humiliated and isolated character - for reasons we learn about as the MC becomes a closer friend (i.e., anti-trans bullying, mocked for semi-public masturbation, rejection by her parent, no friends).

Nea was already on a tragic path before she met the MC. We eventually learn that the MC becoming her friend was an unexpected delay for Nea's inevitable suicide attempt. He was unknowingly saving her, until he wasn't.

Note that we also see Nea eventually disappear from the game if you are on the non-trans path - that is, where the MC has no further interactions with her at all - which implies that she successfully committed suicide offscreen, unrelated to any decisions by the MC because they weren't even friends.

But back to the MC's romance choice in the trans path:

After becoming friends with the MC, Nea was then caught masturbating to her crush YET AGAIN (and the MC couldn't process it, so left immediately) - so, all the experiences that humiliated and isolated her at school came back. She said it herself after being pulled back during the romance path: she thought that she lost the only person who even sort of cared (because she knew what it did to her reputation the prior times it happened.)

So at that point, her only delay in attempting suicide was removed and she went ahead with it. It may have been a final straw moment, certainly, but the MC hadn't even decided on romance/friend by that point.

It's pure coincidence - and romantic license by Luxee - that when MC decided to commit in a romance that he gets back to his apartment in time to block her suicide attempt. Again, I feel the MC's decision to commit motivated him to rush back home, where he fortuitously caught Nea while she was mid-way through her suicide attempt.

However, when you choose the non-romance option, that apparently affected how quickly the MC returned home and he only witnessed Nea's (succesful) suicide aftermath. Nea had no idea he didn't want a romance, she only assumed that she lost her one friend.

Is it what Luxee promised or not? Well, as I said before:

Can you be disappointed by this turn of events in the "bad path"? Yes, certainly. But Luxee didn't pull the rug out: he probably formed this path from difficult inspiration related to the what is possible when being a trans person today - he may be making a statement, portraying an accurate representation of a difficult character's life, a bit of both - it's all reasonable.​

​

Is it equivalent to burning a character to death unexpectedly? Not at all, because in this case, it actually has sensible context.​

 

[Uthuriel]

Per my point, this seems incorrect:

At the beginning of the game, Nea is already a depressed, humiliated and isolated character - for reasons we learn about as the MC becomes a closer friend (i.e., anti-trans bullying, mocked for semi-public masturbation, rejection by her parent, no friends).

Nea was already on a tragic path before she met the MC. We eventually learn that the MC becoming her friend was an unexpected delay for Nea's inevitable suicide attempt. He was unknowingly saving her, until he wasn't.

Note that we also see Nea eventually disappear from the game if you are on the non-trans path - that is, where the MC has no further interactions with her at all - which implies that she successfully committed suicide offscreen, unrelated to any decisions by the MC. Her suicide attempt was not related to his romance decision.

But back to the MC's romance choice in the trans path:

After becoming friends with the MC, Nea was then caught masturbating to her crush YET AGAIN (and the MC couldn't process it, so left immediately) - so, all the experiences that humiliated and isolated her at school came back. She said it herself after being pulled back during the romance path: she thought that she lost the only person who even sort of cared (because she knew what it did to her reputation the prior times it happened.)

So at that point, her only delay in attempting suicide was removed and she went ahead with it. It may have been a final straw moment, certainly, but the MC hadn't even decided on romance/friend by that point.

It's pure coincidence - and romantic license by Luxee - that when MC decided to commit in a romance that he gets back to his apartment in time to block her suicide attempt. Again, I feel the MC's decision to commit motivated him to rush back home, where he fortuitously caught Nea while she was mid-way through her suicide attempt.

However, when you choose the non-romance option, that apparently affected how quickly the MC returned home and he only witnessed Nea's (succcesful) suicide aftermath. Nea had no idea he didn't want a romance, she only assumed that she lost her one friend.

Is it what Luxee promised or not? Well, as I said before:

Can you be disappointed by this turn of events in the "bad path"? Yes, certainly. But Luxee didn't pull the rug out: he probably formed this path from difficult inspiration related to the what is possible when being a trans person today - he may be making a statement, portraying an accurate representation of a difficult character's life, a bit of both - it's all reasonable.​

​

Is it equivalent to burning a character to death unexpectedly? Not at all, because in this case, it actually has sensible context.​

Thank you for that post and I agree with you.

I just wish that the people in this thread would be more civil about the character in general.
I've never seen so much hate for a main LI, some even seem to be happy that she dies on that path which boggles my mind.
Imagine being filled with so much hate...

If we look at e.g. WVM which is another game where one of the main LIs is trans.... well that game/thread has other problems but I haven't yet seen a post there wishing death to Shauna.

The Apartment #69 thread is weird as fuck...

 

[fried]

I just wish that the people in this thread would be more civil about the character in general.
I've never seen so much hate for a main LI, some even seem to be happy that she dies on that path which boggles my mind.
Imagine being filled with so much hate...

I see we feel similarly, it's why I decided to post.

 

[Brother Lui]

Nea although we could say is a tragic figure is also an adorable person. What fried described above is the correct analysis perhaps if Luxee had chosen also a middle path of the friendship there was less "hate" for the projected situation.

Because I read somewhere that a person who is ready to commit suicide doesn't care about the others, this isn't possible by that person because he/she can't bypass the inner psychological trauma and can't see the others and how will effect them. In her/his eyes there isn't light only dark clouds. The mind is totally focus on all the reasons why she/he should suicide and there isn't any solutions because it doesn't search for solutions. The whole situation with Nea was ongoing for several years if I remember correct.

 

[Corambis]

Per my point, this seems incorrect:

At the beginning of the game, Nea is already a depressed, humiliated and isolated character - for reasons we learn about as the MC becomes a closer friend (i.e., anti-trans bullying, mocked for semi-public masturbation, rejection by her parent, no friends).

Nea was already on a tragic path before she met the MC. We eventually learn that the MC becoming her friend was an unexpected delay for Nea's inevitable suicide attempt. He was unknowingly saving her, until he wasn't.

Note that we also see Nea eventually disappear from the game if you are on the non-trans path - that is, where the MC has no further interactions with her at all - which implies that she successfully committed suicide offscreen, unrelated to any decisions by the MC because they weren't even friends.

But back to the MC's romance choice in the trans path:

After becoming friends with the MC, Nea was then caught masturbating to her crush YET AGAIN (and the MC couldn't process it, so left immediately) - so, all the experiences that humiliated and isolated her at school came back. She said it herself after being pulled back during the romance path: she thought that she lost the only person who even sort of cared (because she knew what it did to her reputation the prior times it happened.)

So at that point, her only delay in attempting suicide was removed and she went ahead with it. It may have been a final straw moment, certainly, but the MC hadn't even decided on romance/friend by that point.

It's pure coincidence - and romantic license by Luxee - that when MC decided to commit in a romance that he gets back to his apartment in time to block her suicide attempt. Again, I feel the MC's decision to commit motivated him to rush back home, where he fortuitously caught Nea while she was mid-way through her suicide attempt.

However, when you choose the non-romance option, that apparently affected how quickly the MC returned home and he only witnessed Nea's (succesful) suicide aftermath. Nea had no idea he didn't want a romance, she only assumed that she lost her one friend.

Is it what Luxee promised or not? Well, as I said before:

Can you be disappointed by this turn of events in the "bad path"? Yes, certainly. But Luxee didn't pull the rug out: he probably formed this path from difficult inspiration related to the what is possible when being a trans person today - he may be making a statement, portraying an accurate representation of a difficult character's life, a bit of both - it's all reasonable.​

​

Is it equivalent to burning a character to death unexpectedly? Not at all, because in this case, it actually has sensible context.​

I've never seen the part where you don't help Nea at the beginning, so I guess I'm not familiar with how that path goes. Realistically, if anyone at a high school dies in any way short of suicide bombing an orphanage, people are going to build memorials and talk about it. Come to think of it, they'd probably talk about the first one too. Although obviously this is likely because of Luxee sticking to the idea of "okay, no Nea at all this route".

I still think it's a horrible implementation of suicide for a trans character. If it's a statement on trans suicide, it's a clumsy one. If Nea "had" to die somewhere in this game, it could have been handled much better. As you said, it's a strawman approach to the situation where the player is forced into this with a lot of bad choices and bad luck thrown into the mix. I personally don't like games with no win scenarios, be it Mass Effect where you have to choose which character dies, or this game where you choose between Nea's death, or moving ahead with a relationship you're not yet ready for as a player, and that Nea as a character may not be ready for either because she's mainly falling for the first guy to not actively hate her. But there's enough vagueness with what Luxee intended, what they have planned for the future, and just how to interpret what happened where we'll probably never find agreement on this. I have taken issue with some choices in PL, only to have them redeemed later, like when Luxee had you take one character's virginity while you were too drunk to remember it, only in the next update to have another path where you got the scene everyone wanted. Of course, perhaps the feedback then helped some in the matter. Although Luxee had admitted to working non-linearly on their games.

Thank you for that post and I agree with you.

I just wish that the people in this thread would be more civil about the character in general.
I've never seen so much hate for a main LI, some even seem to be happy that she dies on that path which boggles my mind.
Imagine being filled with so much hate...

If we look at e.g. WVM which is another game where one of the main LIs is trans.... well that game/thread has other problems but I haven't yet seen a post there wishing death to Shauna.

The Apartment #69 thread is weird as fuck...

There's only a small amount of people that hate Nea, although they are vocal. The people that are arguing against Nea's suicide? We like her. We just don't love her. It was a punch to the gut when she died, and it felt like the intent was to punish the player for not choosing the romance route. A sizable portion of the player-base was just rather arbitrarily punished for liking Nea and wanting to help her, but not be more than that. We'd probably see less of the transphobes except Nea's suicide is s sore point with many people that took that friendship path, and it keeps getting discussed. It's like trying to have a conversation on [pick random country here that's newsworthy for something] and some guy keeps sidetracking it with racist or other prejudice stuff.

 

[Uthuriel]

There's only a small amount of people that hate Nea, although they are vocal. The people that are arguing against Nea's suicide? We like her. We just don't love her. It was a punch to the gut when she died, and it felt like the intent was to punish the player for not choosing the romance route. A sizable portion of the player-base was just rather arbitrarily punished for liking Nea and wanting to help her, but not be more than that. We'd probably see less of the transphobes except Nea's suicide is s sore point with many people that took that friendship path, and it keeps getting discussed. It's like trying to have a conversation on [pick random country here that's newsworthy for something] and some guy keeps sidetracking it with racist or other prejudice stuff.

I don't disagree.

Was her suicide on the non dating path handled badly? - Absolutely.

Should there be a path where you can just be friends with her or ignore her entirely without her dying? - I think so.

The thing I don't understand is how some people here hate her so much that they are glad she died on that path. Someone even stated that she is going to eat pavement every time or that they wouldn't even let her near the other LIs that option given.

Maybe I'm just naive but that's hate on a level I don't understand, for a character in a video game mind you.

If someone is that hateful, on a spiral down so fast I don't even want to imagine what such a person would do IRL when real people are involved.
I think that's scary.

 

[Darklord1234]

I still think it's a horrible implementation of suicide for a trans character. If it's a statement on trans suicide, it's a clumsy one.

This guy gets it.

 

[Rutonat]

Per my point, this seems incorrect:

At the beginning of the game, Nea is already a depressed, humiliated and isolated character - for reasons we learn about as the MC becomes a closer friend (i.e., anti-trans bullying, mocked for semi-public masturbation, rejection by her parent, no friends).

Nea was already on a tragic path before she met the MC. We eventually learn that the MC becoming her friend was an unexpected delay for Nea's inevitable suicide attempt. He was unknowingly saving her, until he wasn't.

Note that we also see Nea eventually disappear from the game if you are on the non-trans path - that is, where the MC has no further interactions with her at all - which implies that she successfully committed suicide offscreen, unrelated to any decisions by the MC because they weren't even friends.

But back to the MC's romance choice in the trans path:

After becoming friends with the MC, Nea was then caught masturbating to her crush YET AGAIN (and the MC couldn't process it, so left immediately) - so, all the experiences that humiliated and isolated her at school came back. She said it herself after being pulled back during the romance path: she thought that she lost the only person who even sort of cared (because she knew what it did to her reputation the prior times it happened.)

So at that point, her only delay in attempting suicide was removed and she went ahead with it. It may have been a final straw moment, certainly, but the MC hadn't even decided on romance/friend by that point.

It's pure coincidence - and romantic license by Luxee - that when MC decided to commit in a romance that he gets back to his apartment in time to block her suicide attempt. Again, I feel the MC's decision to commit motivated him to rush back home, where he fortuitously caught Nea while she was mid-way through her suicide attempt.

However, when you choose the non-romance option, that apparently affected how quickly the MC returned home and he only witnessed Nea's (succesful) suicide aftermath. Nea had no idea he didn't want a romance, she only assumed that she lost her one friend.

Is it what Luxee promised or not? Well, as I said before:

Can you be disappointed by this turn of events in the "bad path"? Yes, certainly. But Luxee didn't pull the rug out: he probably formed this path from difficult inspiration related to the what is possible when being a trans person today - he may be making a statement, portraying an accurate representation of a difficult character's life, a bit of both - it's all reasonable.

Is it equivalent to burning a character to death unexpectedly? Not at all, because in this case, it actually has sensible context.

God. Fucking. Dammit.
Thank you for putting in way better words what I've been trying to convey so many times. I sincerely hope the people who wouldn't accept or understand my attempts at explaining that Nea's fate has nothing to do directly with her being trans and everything to do with the absolute hell her life had become, added to the shock of her loosing her only rock in that stormy sea, will understand better this time.

Also please teach me to be this eloquent. Fuck.

Thank you for that post and I agree with you.

I just wish that the people in this thread would be more civil about the character in general.
I've never seen so much hate for a main LI, some even seem to be happy that she dies on that path which boggles my mind.
Imagine being filled with so much hate...

Imagine being so close-minded and insecure about who you are that seeing a fictional character trying to be more confortable in their own skin triggers you that much that you have to violently lash out to people who like said character and condemn anything that isn't "the norm"/being against any change to the thing you knew because you're so afraid of it for no other reason than your own refusal to learn.

If we look at e.g. WVM which is another game where one of the main LIs is trans.... well that game/thread has other problems but I haven't yet seen a post there wishing death to Shauna.

Which game is that ? You got me curious.

 

[Uthuriel]

...

One of my guilty pleasures.
It's a pure feel good game, but it also has some darker moments.
It has one of my favourite transgirls in it. Her name is Shaune she is one with purple hair.

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