HTML Apocalyptic World [v0.50] [ttyrke]

[Briheas]

The first idea coming in my mind reading this is to reverse: what is the interest of having slaves if guests produce more?

More seriously there are many ways to make guests useful without putting them in basic work and you said this yourself before, guests could be here to manage the slaves, indirectly increasing their production.

Because slaves inherently cost less than guests. Lower cost --> Lower production, Higher cost --> Higher production.

Getting a new slave essentially costs 60 caps/60 energy for the new cell, and then another 50 or so caps to buy one (or about 240 energy if you try to find one in the wild), so let's say 110 caps. A guest costs 100 caps/60 energy to build the room, then the 50 or so caps to buy a slave, then the energy/time upgrading them to the point that they won't flee when freed (let's say 200 energy = 40 caps), so a guest essentially costs 190 caps.

So this leaves the player with the option to:
Go the cheap route: focus mostly on slaves, since they cost less and produce less
Go the expensive route: focus mostly on guests, since they will maximize per capita production, while also having a fewer of them due to cost
Go the mixed route: have both in some sort of ratio that will depend on how they interact.

If you go the "guests only manage slaves", then that basically railroads players into the 3rd option. I think it's better to give the player more options on how they want to handle their workforce.

Though from my experiences, since money basically has no upper limit to how much you can earn in a day, but energy is capped at 120 per day, eventually you will be able to essentially get 1-2 slaves per day, but you can only upgrade a slave to guest once every 2 days or so. So I suspect every player will always have some slaves, simply because you can't upgrade them fast enough. Though that might change if other ways of building stats are added.

 

[ttyrke]

Because slaves inherently cost less than guests. Lower cost --> Lower production, Higher cost --> Higher production.

Getting a new slave essentially costs 60 caps/60 energy for the new cell, and then another 50 or so caps to buy one (or about 240 energy if you try to find one in the wild), so let's say 110 caps. A guest costs 100 caps/60 energy to build the room, then the 50 or so caps to buy a slave, then the energy/time upgrading them to the point that they won't flee when freed (let's say 200 energy = 40 caps), so a guest essentially costs 190 caps.

So this leaves the player with the option to:
Go the cheap route: focus mostly on slaves, since they cost less and produce less
Go the expensive route: focus mostly on guests, since they will maximize per capita production, while also having a fewer of them due to cost
Go the mixed route: have both in some sort of ratio that will depend on how they interact.

If you go the "guests only manage slaves", then that basically railroads players into the 3rd option. I think it's better to give the player more options on how they want to handle their workforce.

Though from my experiences, since money basically has no upper limit to how much you can earn in a day, but energy is capped at 120 per day, eventually you will be able to essentially get 1-2 slaves per day, but you can only upgrade a slave to guest once every 2 days or so. So I suspect every player will always have some slaves, simply because you can't upgrade them fast enough. Though that might change if other ways of building stats are added.

There are few changes for next update already implemented for guests.
You'll be able to assign them to forest (wood) and scavening, so if you will want to get a specific items for crafting, you'll need guests and will have a reason to get them.

 

[ttyrke]

Concerning chance of miscarriage I think it would depend of the job, I understand a high chance of miscarriage while whoring but less when gardening ^^

Yep. Will write that down. I was thinking to reduce slave gain in the garden make it 50/50 that it will get a harvest at all. For guest it would stay the same. 1 food per 3 days.
Then in later, when I add "perks" for girls, if she get gardener perk as slave, she would always make that 1 food per 3 days and guests could make double of it.

 

[Strec]

If you go the "guests only manage slaves", then that basically railroads players into the 3rd option. I think it's better to give the player more options on how they want to handle their workforce.

After re-reading my previous post I recognize my answer was not clear, saying "without putting in basic work". In my mind a guest can work (without any production value) but can also be a manager, giving it more value than a slave which can not manage.

But in any case I can't agree to the fact that a guest would produce more than a slave. On the contrary as a slave have generally a lower maintenance cost (less food, less confert, ...) with the same production (with same physical stats), the production ratio is better.

It is the eternal debate love/fear due to the fact that ppl can't imagine what really happens in some hidden part of our "civilized" cultures. Go and ask the prostitutes in the streets to see if they accept that per love/pleasure or per fear/needs...

 

[Briheas]

After re-reading my previous post I recognize my answer was not clear, saying "without putting in basic work". In my mind a guest can work (without any production value) but can also be a manager, giving it more value than a slave which can not manage.

But in any case I can't agree to the fact that a guest would produce more than a slave. On the contrary as a slave have generally a lower maintenance cost (less food, less confert, ...) with the same production (with same physical stats), the production ratio is better.

It is the eternal debate love/fear due to the fact that ppl can't imagine what really happens in some hidden part of our "civilized" cultures. Go and ask the prostitutes in the streets to see if they accept that per love/pleasure or per fear/needs...

You're looking at it primarily from an in-game perspective. I'm looking at it primarily as game mechanics. We're not going to come to an agreement, because I don't care what the actual in-game justification of the mechanics are, just that the game mechanics are balanced. I don't care why, for example, we only need to eat once every 3 days, or why there's no hunger penalty from not eating every day. What I do care about is that food production is balanced around that 3 day eating schedule, and if, for example, we suddenly have to eat every day, then food production must be re-balanced around that. If we did have to eat every day, there's no in-game justification for why food production should suddenly triple, but I would argue that it should to balance against the tripled consumption.

Ultimately, guests can't be a manager and a worker because, in my proposal, I'm saying those are 2 separate jobs. And they're 2 separate jobs because not doing so makes a full guest build be not viable compared to a full slave or a mixed build. But if you'd like to share the formula you think that a guest should have on boosting slave production, then we can discuss that.

For the record, my formula is:
Slave: 2 food/3 days
Guest: 3 food/3 days
Overseer: Boosts up to 4 slaves per overseer, no food produced
Slave (boosted): 3 food/3 days

 

[Strec]

Ultimately, guests can't be a manager and a worker because, in my proposal, I'm saying those are 2 separate jobs

Never said "and". I agree that guest can be worker or manager and it's already a big advantage differenciating the two.

The game is in a very early stage and at this stage it must not be an excel sheet. Balancing a game must be done at the final stage of a development, when all features are determined and working, not so early.

For example, if you consider that there are workers giving some production and managers boosting this production it's just variables adjustement.

If at start a developper want to manage balancing when he code he will during all the dev stage run after this problem because any new feature added can break all the balance of others.

A game must alway be considered from an in-game perspective, and mainly from a "have I fun with that?" perspective, else it's no longer a game but a simulation.

 

[cgaduck]

I wondered if the fight club could be extended to include your slaves. My thought was put a slave up for a fight, have a rock paper scissors game best of 3 or 5. Maybe using gifs from around the web. The prize could be caps and the losing slave if you win.

 

[ttyrke]

I wondered if the fight club could be extended to include your slaves. My thought was put a slave up for a fight, have a rock paper scissors game best of 3 or 5. Maybe using gifs from around the web. The prize could be caps and the losing slave if you win.

Why not. Probably could trigger some more "underground fight club" when you reach specific rank in fight club. Will write it down. Thanks!

 

[queefdesu]

is there any way to disable miscarriage ? its fucking depressing to see

 

[ttyrke]

is there any way to disable miscarriage ? its fucking depressing to see

Remove assigned job from pregnant woman. They only can get miscarriage 5% if they work (Will decrease that percentage in next release)

 

[Briheas]

Never said "and". I agree that guest can be worker or manager and it's already a big advantage differenciating the two.

The game is in a very early stage and at this stage it must not be an excel sheet. Balancing a game must be done at the final stage of a development, when all features are determined and working, not so early.

For example, if you consider that there are workers giving some production and managers boosting this production it's just variables adjustement.

If at start a developper want to manage balancing when he code he will during all the dev stage run after this problem because any new feature added can break all the balance of others.

A game must alway be considered from an in-game perspective, and mainly from a "have I fun with that?" perspective, else it's no longer a game but a simulation.

First, let me clarify something. When I'm talking about balance, I'm talking about game concepts balance. Not like "workers gather 3 food/3 days". If the dev wanted to double food production, I don't really care about that. That sort of balance is small stuff that can only be judged in the end state, as you say.

What I'm really talking about are conceptual statements like "slaves and workers have the same production" or "Armor reduces damage by a flat amount" or "Armor reduces damage by a percentage". Those have much wider impacts because they directly affect how game mechanics work and how they interact with other parts of the game. As an example, the last 2 statements would impact how weapon mechanics and combat as a whole work. If armor is percentage reduction, should weapons be percentage increase to offset it? If not, how should weapons scale to keep up with armor? Or do we not care about that and let armor be way more important to combat than weapons? These are the balance questions that I'm interested in.

And the most important part of balancing this is to make sure there are no contracting concepts.

With regards to new features, there really shouldn't be any. Just planned features which have not been implemented yet. If the dev has not done so already, I would urge him (and any dev, really) to take a day or 2 or more to plan out every game mechanic they want to be in the end state of the game, and how those mechanics should interact with each other. It doesn't need to be in detail or numbers, though the general outline of formulas is important, since that will determine how different concepts interact with each other. If problems or contradictions arise from this, it's important to iron those out early on, since that's not something you can fix by simply changing numbers.

 

[Strec]

If the dev has not done so already, I would urge him (and any dev, really) to take a day or 2 or more to plan out every game mechanic they want to be in the end state of the game, and how those mechanics should interact with each other. It doesn't need to be in detail or numbers, though the general outline of formulas is important, since that will determine how different concepts interact with each other. If problems or contradictions arise from this, it's important to iron those out early on, since that's not something you can fix by simply changing numbers.

Any pro dev can only agree with that

Global analysis is the basis of any serious and solid project but it's far more difficult then opening a patreon page with some lines of code and 3 pictures with big tits babes to finally stop the dev in v0.4...

 

[Quickpawmaud]

How do I find Rodger? I have never found him. I just explore over and over and it is day 141 and have never found a church. Also I really think the death chance in the streets job should be drastically lowered. Most of the time they die in 1 day and the longest I have gotten is 3 days. Completely useless assignment right now. They should probably just not have a chance to die at all since it is a game and should be fun.

 

[ttyrke]

How do I find Rodger? I have never found him. I just explore over and over and it is day 141 and have never found a church.

Can you provide your save file? There should be a quest with Vincent where you need to collect some items before quest continues.

 

[Quickpawmaud]

Can you provide your save file? There should be a quest with Vincent where you need to collect some items before quest continues.

I found it eventually. It was not clear that getting relationship with Vincent unlocked everything.

 

[ikedia]

So strength stat is kinda easy to figure out right now but does Intelligence actually do anything ATM

 

[ttyrke]

So strength stat is kinda easy to figure out right now but does Intelligence actually do anything ATM

Right now now. One of the way it could be used probably is for some unique crafting items, etc.

 

[ikedia]

Also, discovered a bug/gltich when you first explore the forest it consumes 60 energy however after that you can explore again as long as its between 35-55

 

[ttyrke]

Also, discovered a bug/gltich when you first explore the forest it consumes 60 energy however after that you can explore again as long as its between 35-55

Not a bug. After you've discovered forest, next times will only consume time (1hour) and timeBetween('08:00', '20:00')

 

[Rycharde's Realm]

In my Journal (started over 'cause I wanted to ), I noticed I've been told to help Roger build his church. Problem? I have yet to meet him.

EDIT: v.0.09b