VN Ren'Py Astreon [Ch.2 v0.2] [NoGlory]

[micojive]

I think the idea behind the story is interesting enough, but for a game that is like 95% exposition and talking, after playing for a few hours I have no idea what the plot of this game is.

This is going to sound mean but it sounds like when you are talking to a young kid who is excitedly telling a story where they jump around all over the place, don't really get a full thought out and when you are finished talking to them you have no idea what they just said.

You are an army dude on a mission then you are 8 years older, but somewhere in there lost your wife who you saw for 4 seconds at the start of the game, then you are on a mission with your old son who you adopted I guess. Where you run into a space ship thing thats crashed and suddenly someone can teleport you away to a new world but everyone else says that the Earth is too far away so why were people there at all. And now you are back after one day in some military conflict...Like Jesus Christ we went through 8 different plots in 2 hours.

Not to mention the first and last "sex" scenes feel hyper out of place. First one with that girls sister just seems like it was thrown in to get a lewd scene in an early update, and the one later with the friend, like jesus they were just in a massive attack and were resting, not the best time for a hand J.

 

[TsubameYui]

THANK YOU, MY DARLING! Still, as people have mentioned here, I can see the plot in my head, and I didn't think these moments were weird at all. But yeah, now I'm starting to realise what's wrong with the plot in general. As always, I'll try to roll out another bug fix in the next couple of days, along with a scene rework.

And instead of explaining everything in the already current scenes, I'll just add other intermediate ones, and it should kinda improve the narrative. Also thanks to the feedback, I kinda realised what's missing from my game. Thanks for the feedback by the way, it really helped me a lot, as well as everyone else who gives their opinions here.

Hey, I noticed a discrepancy with the time dilation talk. Flora tells MC that while he's been on that world for 2 months, 8-9 months have passed on Earth. That's backwards, when she states moments later that Lora has been there for 8 years, while 2 have passed on Earth. If MC has been there for 2 months, only about 2 weeks should have passed back on Earth, as Earth is moving 4 times slower.

 

[NoGloryx]

I think the idea behind the story is interesting enough, but for a game that is like 95% exposition and talking, after playing for a few hours I have no idea what the plot of this game is.

This is going to sound mean but it sounds like when you are talking to a young kid who is excitedly telling a story where they jump around all over the place, don't really get a full thought out and when you are finished talking to them you have no idea what they just said.

You are an army dude on a mission then you are 8 years older, but somewhere in there lost your wife who you saw for 4 seconds at the start of the game, then you are on a mission with your old son who you adopted I guess. Where you run into a space ship thing thats crashed and suddenly someone can teleport you away to a new world but everyone else says that the Earth is too far away so why were people there at all. And now you are back after one day in some military conflict...Like Jesus Christ we went through 8 different plots in 2 hours.

Not to mention the first and last "sex" scenes feel hyper out of place. First one with that girls sister just seems like it was thrown in to get a lewd scene in an early update, and the one later with the friend, like jesus they were just in a massive attack and were resting, not the best time for a hand J.

Thank you for your feedback, and I apologise for not being able to meet expectations. Right now trying to fix all this mess in the start

 

[NoGloryx]

Hey, I noticed a discrepancy with the time dilation talk. Flora tells MC that while he's been on that world for 2 months, 8-9 months have passed on Earth. That's backwards, when she states moments later that Lora has been there for 8 years, while 2 have passed on Earth. If MC has been there for 2 months, only about 2 weeks should have passed back on Earth, as Earth is moving 4 times slower.

Thanks so much, looks like I not only explained the game poorly, but also managed to mess up in the existing text xD

 

[Catherine♡]

The renders, girls looks and animations are top tier!

 

[LinkBox88]

When the you push the dial for text speed all the way and it doesn't become instant, you just can't come to any other conclusion than the dev being a controlling jerk who probably makes his girlfriend dress all demure and shit.

It's the default in Renpy so you would have to go out of your way just to remove the choice from the player.

 

[ivanov95]

Usually not a big fan of a sci-fi, but this one? It hooked me right away and it just got better and better with every minute!

That ending, can't wait for the next update! Kudos to the dev!

P.S. Is this a harem, where the waifu needs to like the girl or not a harem at all?

 

[ImSenjou]

I hope this event is just a prelude to something bigger and not the main plot, the plot seems rushed because it all started the day the MC woke up, it's incredible that he manages to remain calm in this situation.

And about the harem, I hope it doesn't imitate another game(7) that we have here on the forum where the MC goes from territory to territory collecting partners as if they were Pokémon, that game started out interesting, but ended up on my ignore list.

Seeing the Stellaris map made me like the game even more, I even think the dev should show this map in the game previews, I bet it will attract a lot of Stellaris fans.

 

[TsubameYui]

Thanks so much, looks like I not only explained the game poorly, but also managed to mess up in the existing text xD

A little bit more constructive criticism, as I'm getting further into the game. One issue I'm having is that there is little to no alternative dialogue when LIs have been rejected. When an LI is rejected, entire scenes are basically just completely skipped, which causes the player to miss important information. This happens several times. Instead of just skipping the story scenes with (presumably dead) rejected LIs, you should have an alternate scene that delivers the same information, but without the rejected LI. You actually did that pretty well with the news broadcast scene, cutting out Anya's shots, and just replacing them with more Alex shots.

Ironically, there is one section where an entire alternate conversation happens if your Olivia points are below 10, with choices and everything. It's very well written and includes an option to regain a point with her. The problem is that there appears to be no way to go below 10 points with her before that point, so unless you cheat, which I did, with URM, nobody will ever see that alternative scene. Unless losing points with Olivia is tied to Anya content, which I didn't see, as I left her to her fate in the alley.

Another problem I see, is that several LIs have their lockout point before they are ever introduced. How are we supposed to know whether or not we want to pursue an LI if we've never even met them? It sounds like MC and Anya know each other pretty well, but when given the choice to save or abandon her in the alley, we the players do not know who she is at all. Seems like a complete stranger when the choice comes up, which is why I abandoned her, and then she's only briefly mentioned way later on, and we still don't know that Anya was the one in the alley. It seems like she probably died in that alley, and yet Olivia never really mentions her again, outside of flashbacks. A day passed before they left for Starlit Stand, yet she never said anything about Anya being missing or hurt, or anything.

Ivy has the same problem. We see someone being attacked in a strange new world we know nothing about, and we were explicitly told not to do anything or talk to anyone, and yet, if we follow those instructions, another LI is locked out, and probably dead before we ever got to meet her or even know whether or not we'd like to get to know her better. Edit: After going back and checking out Ivy's route, and learning that she's a prostitute, I decided to go back and not help her again. Prostitutes don't belong in harem games.

Your LIs are beautiful, but they all seem to be pretty severely damaged goods, so you should expect a significant number of players are going to reject several, or all, of them, and plan alternative scenes/dialogues accordingly. When I went back and tried the save Anya route, she came off as very abrasive and waaaay too slutty/sexually aggressive, so I went back to just leaving her to her fate in the alley.

 

[micojive]

Thank you for your feedback, and I apologise for not being able to meet expectations. Right now trying to fix all this mess in the start

Don't get me wrong, I did enjoy reading it and playing through it overall. It just felt like when you have a book that is 800 pages and its squished down into a 1.5 hour movie. It feels like it hits on major plot event after major plot event but cuts out all the middle stuff that ties them all together.

 

[townie]

When the you push the dial for text speed all the way and it doesn't become instant, you just can't come to any other conclusion than the dev being a controlling jerk who probably makes his girlfriend dress all demure and shit.

It's the default in Renpy so you would have to go out of your way just to remove the choice from the player.

Oddly enough, you have to push the dial all the way to the left to make it instant. Slow text's the type of shit that grinds my gears, too, but weird implementation aside, the option is there.

 

[JenMistress]

I am going to put this on the back burner for now. Even with the speed all the way to the right, it is still driving me nuts with how slow it is going. Having that many games to get through, and having it go that slow, yeah, it is not working for me, brother. So maybe later I will come back to it when I get more cleared.

 

[e6mill]

I am going to put this on the back burner for now. Even with the speed all the way to the right, it is still driving me nuts with how slow it is going. Having that many games to get through, and having it go that slow, yeah, it is not working for me, brother. So maybe later I will come back to it when I get more cleared.

You want the text speed all the way LEFT (unlike every other Renpy VN ever.)

 

[JenMistress]

You want the text speed all the way LEFT (unlike every other Renpy VN ever.)

Bloody hell, well, at least I don't have to worry about the slow text any more. Thank you for the heads up.

 

[pemoj]

NoGloryx is what I call, with all due respect, a “HS2 virtuoso”. His renders and scenes using that program are excellent. But, like almost all HS2 virtuosos, when they shape their scenes in Ren'Py, the quality drops a lot. In other words, this kind of developers have a hard time, if not creating, at least telling a good story. The only one that is excellent in both ways is garbage.kun and his excellent game. In fact, NoGloryx reminds me of another HS2 virtuoso whose game “may fly” if, like this one, more than well written (that too), it was well narrated. I also wrote a long review of that game. Both games have a very similar theme and aesthetic, and both make the same mistakes. The key word in both cases (and more) is “storytelling”. I recommend NoGloryx to read the FAQ of this article. And he might also be interested in buying some of the books that appear in it to learn how to narrate, write, structure, etc. a story.

You must be registered to see the links

 

[Uzhirian]

Thanks so much, looks like I not only explained the game poorly, but also managed to mess up in the existing text xD

Hey NoGloryx,

First the good, I like the theme and style of the renders and story. Lewd scenes are nice too. Definitely a lot going for this VN.

On the downside, sadly, in my opinion, the below kinda sums up much of the game:


Characters talk a lot but mostly say little of interest about themselves, their motives, the world lore or anything meaningful. I'm part way through chapter 2 now and its been a string of standing around yapping/arguing like kids, then someone suggests not doing that but they do it some more anyway. I'd forgive people for thinking you intentionally created your characters to be annoying at this point.

I don't want to just complain of course, so my input would be:

• Each bit of text and dialogue should be imparting something useful/interesting to the reader (like the stuff I listed in the above paragraph). Many times it seemed like characters were talking because they like sound of their own voice almost.
• Characters should speak and act according to their backgrounds (and be consistent within their motivation and the story).
  • Most of your characters so far are, or implied to be, trained, current/former, military types, but except Miriel, they all seem while on mission (an important, time sensitive one) to act like petulant children with poor focus on, and no apparent expediency toward, completing that mission.
  • Where the MC is guided by Flora to the outpost is really well done for example, but act II especially has been such a drag to read.
• Sometime the dialogue is a bit... verbose, lets say. Leaves me thinking something important is meant to be learned but it reads akin to Shakespeare and I'm tuning out or missing something. Example is flora asking Ember about the ark, she three times say "but yeah, what is it" and honestly I'm still not sure because ember gives the weirdest answers.

Btw, regarding the flashbacks for Olivia; one shows MC finding her in the street (which seems to be their first meeting) and then the next one shows her being outfitted to work in the cafe and MC tells wife something about her just walking in and asking for a job when asking where MC found her (eg. seems like they've not met). Am I missing something there?

PS: If this come across as rude or harsh, sorry, but I've just written it part way through act II from frustration at the characters but I aimed for it to be constructive and helpful for improvement as overall I like the VN and see potential.

 

[Uzhirian]

Ivy has the same problem. We see someone being attacked in a strange new world we know nothing about, and we were explicitly told not to do anything or talk to anyone, and yet, if we follow those instructions, another LI is locked out, and probably dead before we ever got to meet her or even know whether or not we'd like to get to know her better. Edit: After going back and checking out Ivy's route, and learning that she's a prostitute, I decided to go back and not help her again. Prostitutes don't belong in harem games.

I'd argue that's a basic moral quandary. Do what you've been told or don't/do the seemingly moral thing. Lose an LI because you ignored a situation, good reason or not to do so, seems fair. Choices have consquences, its what most people want from a choice based VN. Dev could just as simply penalise for intervening in a situation MC doesnt fully understand instead. Its not really a bad thing if its done well and this scene is handled well enough.

The dev can correct if wrong, but i'm pretty sure Ivy isn't a prostitute, but something more akin to a geisha, as she specifically says they dont offer that service normally after the sex and that its unique for MC (because he saved her presumably).

 

[Raziel_8]

The dev can correct if wrong, but i'm pretty sure Ivy isn't a prostitute, but something more akin to a geisha, as she specifically says they dont offer that service normally after the sex and that its unique for MC (because he saved her presumably).

IIRC, Ivy isn't even a LI.

 

[pemoj]

Hey NoGloryx,

First the good, I like the theme and style of the renders and story. Lewd scenes are nice too. Definitely a lot going for this VN.

On the downside, sadly, in my opinion, the below kinda sums up much of the game:
View attachment 4775294

Characters talk a lot but mostly say little of interest about themselves, their motives, the world lore or anything meaningful. I'm part way through chapter 2 now and its been a string of standing around yapping/arguing like kids, then someone suggests not doing that but they do it some more anyway. I'd forgive people for thinking you intentionally created your characters to be annoying at this point.

I don't want to just complain of course, so my input would be:

• Each bit of text and dialogue should be imparting something useful/interesting to the reader (like the stuff I listed in the above paragraph). Many times it seemed like characters were talking because they like sound of their own voice almost.
• Characters should speak and act according to their backgrounds (and be consistent within their motivation and the story).
  • Most of your characters so far are, or implied to be, trained, current/former, military types, but except Miriel, they all seem while on mission (an important, time sensitive one) to act like petulant children with poor focus on, and no apparent expediency toward, completing that mission.
  • Where the MC is guided by Flora to the outpost is really well done for example, but act II especially has been such a drag to read.
• Sometime the dialogue is a bit... verbose, lets say. Leaves me thinking something important is meant to be learned but it reads akin to Shakespeare and I'm tuning out or missing something. Example is flora asking Ember about the ark, she three times say "but yeah, what is it" and honestly I'm still not sure because ember gives the weirdest answers.

Btw, regarding the flashbacks for Olivia; one shows MC finding her in the street (which seems to be their first meeting) and then the next one shows her being outfitted to work in the cafe and MC tells wife something about her just walking in and asking for a job when asking where MC found her (eg. seems like they've not met). Am I missing something there?

PS: If this come across as rude or harsh, sorry, but I've just written it part way through act II from frustration at the characters but I aimed for it to be constructive and helpful for improvement as overall I like the VN and see potential.

You just mentioned some of the most important elements of good storytelling. That's why I recommend reading the FAQs from the article in my previous post (the 5 C's of storytelling, the 4 P's of storytelling...). Scenes and the dialogue within them must have a purpose, a meaning. Otherwise, they either don't belong or something is missing.

When starting a story, it's recommended that you FIRST create a biography for the characters, as detailed as possible. Some successful professionals even talk about writing three pages or more just to define a character. I'm also working on a visual novel. And this way (among many others), both the scenes and the dialogue come to me naturally. I'm even surprised at how easy it's been for me. Maybe I have a talent for writing and storytelling. Or maybe, before starting, I spent a loooong time planning the overall plot, the scenes and its characters. That last part isn't a "maybe", it's a certainty.

I edit to add: one of the keys to telling a story is for the writer to get into the characters and scenes. He must be each of the characters in each of the scenes. He must feel and understand their words, their actions, their motivations for doing or saying something... or not. If he does it this way, everything will flow naturally, and therefore everything will be easier.

 

[Uzhirian]

IIRC, Ivy isn't even a LI.

True, she has a lewd scene though so gotta ensure the sensitive souls know she's all clean and untouched and just for them