VN Ren'Py Astreon [Ch.2 v0.2] [NoGlory]

[TsubameYui]

The dev can correct if wrong, but i'm pretty sure Ivy isn't a prostitute, but something more akin to a geisha, as she specifically says they dont offer that service normally after the sex and that its unique for MC (because he saved her presumably).

Based on what Rey says, and how she's dressed, she's definitely a stripper, not a geisha. Saying that they don't normally sleep with customers is something every stripper says when prostituting themselves. If you turn her down, she also makes comments that heavily imply that she regularly sleeps with customers for money.

 

[LinkBox88]

Too much style, too little substance.

It keeps moving and acting cool and not explaining itself. Everybody is an edgelord,and all the female characters are constantly needling each other in some kind of pissing contest. There's just so little payoff. Like the game wants to keep you guessing more than it wants to provide gratification.

There's just something so grating about a bunch of characters acting aloof and being annoying on purpose and insulting you constantly and then they pull you aside for a second and suddenly want some intimacy or a safe place to be vulnerable. By the end of Act 2 I was turning everyone down all the time because that was my outlet to express my annoyance and demand some respect. The mood is all wrong if you've got me turning down content out of spite.

 

[Uzhirian]

Based on what Rey says, and how she's dressed, she's definitely a stripper, not a geisha. Saying that they don't normally sleep with customers is something every stripper says when prostituting themselves. If you turn her down, she also makes comments that heavily imply that she regularly sleeps with customers for money.

I said Gaisha because its more appropriate for the wealth/type of entertainment that is implied for customers who go there. Either way, meh.
As for the comments, not really. Flora implies everything there cost money/info down to the smiles. If you reject her, ivy just says your missing out, and only if you reject on the first option does she also points out it wouldn't have cost you anything (as in contrary to what Flora just said). Nothing really implies she does prostitution.
But you do you, that's the what the choices are for after all!

 

[NoGloryx]

A little bit more constructive criticism, as I'm getting further into the game. One issue I'm having is that there is little to no alternative dialogue when LIs have been rejected. When an LI is rejected, entire scenes are basically just completely skipped, which causes the player to miss important information. This happens several times. Instead of just skipping the story scenes with (presumably dead) rejected LIs, you should have an alternate scene that delivers the same information, but without the rejected LI. You actually did that pretty well with the news broadcast scene, cutting out Anya's shots, and just replacing them with more Alex shots.

Ironically, there is one section where an entire alternate conversation happens if your Olivia points are below 10, with choices and everything. It's very well written and includes an option to regain a point with her. The problem is that there appears to be no way to go below 10 points with her before that point, so unless you cheat, which I did, with URM, nobody will ever see that alternative scene. Unless losing points with Olivia is tied to Anya content, which I didn't see, as I left her to her fate in the alley.

Another problem I see, is that several LIs have their lockout point before they are ever introduced. How are we supposed to know whether or not we want to pursue an LI if we've never even met them? It sounds like MC and Anya know each other pretty well, but when given the choice to save or abandon her in the alley, we the players do not know who she is at all. Seems like a complete stranger when the choice comes up, which is why I abandoned her, and then she's only briefly mentioned way later on, and we still don't know that Anya was the one in the alley. It seems like she probably died in that alley, and yet Olivia never really mentions her again, outside of flashbacks. A day passed before they left for Starlit Stand, yet she never said anything about Anya being missing or hurt, or anything.

Ivy has the same problem. We see someone being attacked in a strange new world we know nothing about, and we were explicitly told not to do anything or talk to anyone, and yet, if we follow those instructions, another LI is locked out, and probably dead before we ever got to meet her or even know whether or not we'd like to get to know her better. Edit: After going back and checking out Ivy's route, and learning that she's a prostitute, I decided to go back and not help her again. Prostitutes don't belong in harem games.

Your LIs are beautiful, but they all seem to be pretty severely damaged goods, so you should expect a significant number of players are going to reject several, or all, of them, and plan alternative scenes/dialogues accordingly. When I went back and tried the save Anya route, she came off as very abrasive and waaaay too slutty/sexually aggressive, so I went back to just leaving her to her fate in the alley.

1. Technically, you can go lower, to the right value, if you pick out all the negative answers while talking to Astoria, and don't dodge the... Let's say her attack.About choice, yeah, I understand, than for this I need to make a different route. And for all the choice we have now are, shall we say, not exactly what I originally wanted. Except that in 0.1 there are two key choices, which are more or less spelled out well.

2. Yes I admit it wasn't the best idea to make choices for characters you don't know. And overall, with Anya, I've changed my approach. But with Ivy, I've left it that way for now, cause it's consequences will affect the future.

3. And about Li, I tried to create a darker environment, because there are no perfect people, but in the end I did not realise my idea as I wanted. I have to make up for it as the project progresses.

 

[NoGloryx]

You want the text speed all the way LEFT (unlike every other Renpy VN ever.)

Let's just say I just didn't know how it worked in other avns, so I messed up a bit with it, oops.....

 

[NoGloryx]

NoGloryx is what I call, with all due respect, a “HS2 virtuoso”. His renders and scenes using that program are excellent. But, like almost all HS2 virtuosos, when they shape their scenes in Ren'Py, the quality drops a lot. In other words, this kind of developers have a hard time, if not creating, at least telling a good story. The only one that is excellent in both ways is garbage.kun and his excellent game. In fact, NoGloryx reminds me of another HS2 virtuoso whose game “may fly” if, like this one, more than well written (that too), it was well narrated. I also wrote a long review of that game. Both games have a very similar theme and aesthetic, and both make the same mistakes. The key word in both cases (and more) is “storytelling”. I recommend NoGloryx to read the FAQ of this article. And he might also be interested in buying some of the books that appear in it to learn how to narrate, write, structure, etc. a story.

You must be registered to see the links

Lovely will read them in the near future.

 

[NoGloryx]

Hey NoGloryx,

First the good, I like the theme and style of the renders and story. Lewd scenes are nice too. Definitely a lot going for this VN.

On the downside, sadly, in my opinion, the below kinda sums up much of the game:
View attachment 4775294

Characters talk a lot but mostly say little of interest about themselves, their motives, the world lore or anything meaningful. I'm part way through chapter 2 now and its been a string of standing around yapping/arguing like kids, then someone suggests not doing that but they do it some more anyway. I'd forgive people for thinking you intentionally created your characters to be annoying at this point.

I don't want to just complain of course, so my input would be:

• Each bit of text and dialogue should be imparting something useful/interesting to the reader (like the stuff I listed in the above paragraph). Many times it seemed like characters were talking because they like sound of their own voice almost.
• Characters should speak and act according to their backgrounds (and be consistent within their motivation and the story).
  • Most of your characters so far are, or implied to be, trained, current/former, military types, but except Miriel, they all seem while on mission (an important, time sensitive one) to act like petulant children with poor focus on, and no apparent expediency toward, completing that mission.
  • Where the MC is guided by Flora to the outpost is really well done for example, but act II especially has been such a drag to read.
• Sometime the dialogue is a bit... verbose, lets say. Leaves me thinking something important is meant to be learned but it reads akin to Shakespeare and I'm tuning out or missing something. Example is flora asking Ember about the ark, she three times say "but yeah, what is it" and honestly I'm still not sure because ember gives the weirdest answers.

Btw, regarding the flashbacks for Olivia; one shows MC finding her in the street (which seems to be their first meeting) and then the next one shows her being outfitted to work in the cafe and MC tells wife something about her just walking in and asking for a job when asking where MC found her (eg. seems like they've not met). Am I missing something there?

PS: If this come across as rude or harsh, sorry, but I've just written it part way through act II from frustration at the characters but I aimed for it to be constructive and helpful for improvement as overall I like the VN and see potential.

Honestly, I don't know what to say to that except that I'll work on it. Anyway, it's all pure and simple. And honestly, I'm very happy to hear so much criticism from everyone, I see that many people care about my work (at least I hope for that).

 

[NoGloryx]

You just mentioned some of the most important elements of good storytelling. That's why I recommend reading the FAQs from the article in my previous post (the 5 C's of storytelling, the 4 P's of storytelling...). Scenes and the dialogue within them must have a purpose, a meaning. Otherwise, they either don't belong or something is missing.

When starting a story, it's recommended that you FIRST create a biography for the characters, as detailed as possible. Some successful professionals even talk about writing three pages or more just to define a character. I'm also working on a visual novel. And this way (among many others), both the scenes and the dialogue come to me naturally. I'm even surprised at how easy it's been for me. Maybe I have a talent for writing and storytelling. Or maybe, before starting, I spent a loooong time planning the overall plot, the scenes and its characters. That last part isn't a "maybe", it's a certainty.

I edit to add: one of the keys to telling a story is for the writer to get into the characters and scenes. He must be each of the characters in each of the scenes. He must feel and understand their words, their actions, their motivations for doing or saying something... or not. If he does it this way, everything will flow naturally, and therefore everything will be easier.

I have a detailed description of them, and I generally follow it. Except I don't follow it all the way through, or rather, it's just hard for me to do so. The text ends up being one-size-fits-all. But I'm working on it.

 

[NoGloryx]

Based on what Rey says, and how she's dressed, she's definitely a stripper, not a geisha. Saying that they don't normally sleep with customers is something every stripper says when prostituting themselves. If you turn her down, she also makes comments that heavily imply that she regularly sleeps with customers for money.

Let's just say this will all be described later. Either in the codex or in the game itself.

 

[TsubameYui]

1. Technically, you can go lower, to the right value, if you pick out all the negative answers while talking to Astoria, and don't dodge the... Let's say her attack.About choice, yeah, I understand, than for this I need to make a different route. And for all the choice we have now are, shall we say, not exactly what I originally wanted. Except that in 0.1 there are two key choices, which are more or less spelled out well.

2. Yes I admit it wasn't the best idea to make choices for characters you don't know. And overall, with Anya, I've changed my approach. But with Ivy, I've left it that way for now, cause it's consequences will affect the future.

3. And about Li, I tried to create a darker environment, because there are no perfect people, but in the end I did not realise my idea as I wanted. I have to make up for it as the project progresses.

Yeah, I did try doing all the bad choices with Astoria, and even tried not dodging, but didn't go much farther down that path before backing up, as it seemed like a lot more information was to be gained by appeasing her.

As for Anya, I think a brief flashback scene that shows the player that she and MC already know each other would be a big improvement. It was far too easy to just walk away, because it seemed like she was a total stranger, and if you walk away, she almost entirely disappears from the game. The only time you see her again is in an Olivia flashback, but if the player never tried saving her, they can't even tell it's the same girl. You may also consider adding a couple lines of dialogue(no renders needed) when MC and Olivia are talking in the car or forest, where Olivia seems concerned about Anya not coming home, and MC could mention that he last saw her surrounded by guys in the alley. That might convince players to backtrack and choose to rescue her.

You did a really good job setting the scene of the other world's dark/dystopian environment, and I really love how Miriel comes across as a tortured soul with a heart of gold. She's probably my favorite LI so far, with Olivia being a close second. Lora would probably in 3rd for me right now, but only because, despite being married for years, we the players know very little about her. Even MC seems to be in the dark about who she really is, since she seemed to be keeping a lot about herself and her work secret from him.

Miriel is another example, though, of rejecting an LI causing major story content to be skipped. Missing her final scene seems detrimental to the story progression/exposition. It might be a good idea to give an alternate version, where MC is still invited to her home, but without all the flirting. Again, it could probably be done without making any new renders. Just cut some out and adjust the dialogue.

All in all, I love your game. The story is compelling, new, and unique. It definitely stands on its own and is worth playing even without the sexual content. Please keep up the great work. I'm looking forward to the next update.