Mod Ren'Py Completed Babysitter mod [final] [khumak]

[khumak]

Have actually been doing some more thinking about NTR and I think the big stumbling block for me has been the idea of motivation/proportionality/fairness. Mostly looking at it from the perspective of the female making the decision to go the NTR route. Why would she choose that path? Is it because the MC is just behaving like a total asshole? Is the specific action she's choosing to take in retaliation proportional to whatever he did wrong? Is there something appealing about the "bad guy" that is lacking in the MC? And IMO just having a bigger dick is not enough.

I think if I get that part right I could overcome my reluctance and write NTR scenes where it seems like the MC legitimately deserves that outcome. I think the scenes where I would have a problem are the ones where it's just too abrupt and while the MC may not have made optimal choices, he doesn't deserve whatever just happened.

I do think part of it depends on the personality of the female character as well. If she's just an obvious slut then I don't think the bar for cheating would be very high for her, and the prospect for that should be pretty obvious to the MC anyway so he should expect it. So I think Babysitter does an ok job in that respect.

I do think there's a bit of a disconnect for Jessica though when you look at how she puts the brakes on for the MC (who actually has some leverage against her) vs letting Robert fuck her at the drop of a hat. If it was me writing the NTR part for that, I would either need more justification for Jess to fuck Robert in the hot tub or would have made Jess slutty enough that she would have no problem fucking MC in the bathroom of the Pizzeria to get what she wants from him.

I think Babysitter does a better job on the NTR for Christine. There's a reasonable build up to it and MC has to screw up bad enough that he knows it's coming (or does it on purpose).

 

[Abibliboop]

Have actually been doing some more thinking about NTR and I think the big stumbling block for me has been the idea of motivation/proportionality/fairness. Mostly looking at it from the perspective of the female making the decision to go the NTR route. Why would she choose that path? Is it because the MC is just behaving like a total asshole? Is the specific action she's choosing to take in retaliation proportional to whatever he did wrong? Is there something appealing about the "bad guy" that is lacking in the MC? And IMO just having a bigger dick is not enough.

I think if I get that part right I could overcome my reluctance and write NTR scenes where it seems like the MC legitimately deserves that outcome. I think the scenes where I would have a problem are the ones where it's just too abrupt and while the MC may not have made optimal choices, he doesn't deserve whatever just happened.

I do think part of it depends on the personality of the female character as well. If she's just an obvious slut then I don't think the bar for cheating would be very high for her, and the prospect for that should be pretty obvious to the MC anyway so he should expect it. So I think Babysitter does an ok job in that respect.

I do think there's a bit of a disconnect for Jessica though when you look at how she puts the brakes on for the MC (who actually has some leverage against her) vs letting Robert fuck her at the drop of a hat. If it was me writing the NTR part for that, I would either need more justification for Jess to fuck Robert in the hot tub or would have made Jess slutty enough that she would have no problem fucking MC in the bathroom of the Pizzeria to get what she wants from him.

I think Babysitter does a better job on the NTR for Christine. There's a reasonable build up to it and MC has to screw up bad enough that he knows it's coming (or does it on purpose).

I think the reason the Jess/Robert hot tub scene happens is because she is drunk and has very low self esteem, and not necessarily that she is slutty (though she does like to play it up). She makes it clear this isn't really what she wants but gives into the pressure if MC doesn't stop it.

 

[WhiteFireDaemon]

I don't think it's a matter of low self esteem that christine is getting involved with silver or robert. with silver, it's more a matter of she's a bit naive and gets caught up in being chased by an older well off guy that just happens to be her boss. she's got the receptionist whispering in her ear to just roll with it, so why wouldn't she see where it goes? as for robert, it's just a matter of she is interested in him. when they're dancing in the club, her competitiveness and intoxicated state is why she lets things go as far as they did. i don't think that if she had known what robert was going to do, she would've done it, but it's not that unreasonable of a turn of events.

try eliminating the mc from the story and imagine if she had these interactions with robert or silver without the mc being involved in any way. I think they development of her relationship with them is perfectly plausible. Now from that perspective, you just put the player in the game as a person who was romantically/sexually interested in the girl but wasn't able to win her affection and now is jealously watching her. I once heard someone say that all fathers are cucked by their daughters, which is true to varying degrees. They all raise and love their little girls, some may even find them desirable, but once they start dating it causes a raging storm of emotions to see your sweet little girl getting nasty with some punk.

in the end, the relationships that christine can develop with robert or silver actually are more plausible than her relationship with the MC. On that note, it'd make sense for them to have an easier time trying to get into her pants than the MC would as they wouldn't have the hurdle of a taboo relationship.

 

[khumak]

I think the reason the Jess/Robert hot tub scene happens is because she is drunk and has very low self esteem, and not necessarily that she is slutty (though she does like to play it up). She makes it clear this isn't really what she wants but gives into the pressure if MC doesn't stop it.

Oh I agree that it's still plausible as written. I just mean that I personally would have had a problem with writing a scene like that and it came as a shock when I did a playthrough where I intentionally picked some of the NTR options. I didn't expect it to happen that fast or to be that inevitable even when I knew it was coming.

The decision of whether to allow Robert to join you in the first place was an obvious red flag and an obvious way to prevent that outcome but the way the event was written after that point there's basically no way for the MC to come out on top from that point on. There's another opportunity to stop him from actually fucking Jess but only after he either gets to finger Christine or get a BJ from Jess. You can also end the night early but in that case Jess still goes with him and gives him a BJ. So it's a guaranteed bad outcome from the point where you make that decision at the club unless you're an NTR fan.

I was hoping for some options within the truth or dare game itself where there would be an option for the MC to get the upper hand in the game that resulted in either Robert getting mad and leaving on his own or having him try to take things too far and have the girls kick him out. I settled for a cheap way out with my mod and just added an easy way for the MC to kick him out before he could do any damage. From a scoring standpoint that's actually the best path in the mod rather than forbidding him from joining you in the first place since that path gives you more horny points with both Christine and Jess than you would have gotten if you danced with Christine at the club and there was no option for Robert to join you. (From the vanilla game alone).

I have no problem with the vanilla game's NTR scenes after that day. They all have enough build up to seem like reasonable justification for me. You have plenty of opportunity to stop Christine from ending up dating either Silver or Robert even if you make some suboptimal choices early on. And if you let it get as far as the Yacht when you're still behind compared to Silver or Robert it's just blatantly obvious what's going to happen. So overall I do think they did a good job with the NTR.

 

[Abibliboop]

Gotta admit I loved the option you put in there for him for that scene. Maybe makes the MC a bit of a dick for doping him, but as he is little better than slime it didn't bother me that much. Doubly so a the game gets a bit more interesting if he is there at the start of it.

I don't think it's a matter of low self esteem that christine is getting involved with silver or robert.

I was solely referring to the r/j scene for the low self esteem comment.

 

[khumak]

Gotta admit I loved the option you put in there for him for that scene. Maybe makes the MC a bit of a dick for doping him, but as he is little better than slime it didn't bother me that much. Doubly so a the game gets a bit more interesting if he is there at the start of it.

I was solely referring to the r/j scene for the low self esteem comment.

I actually hadn't thought about the interactions with Robert between the time you drugged him and the time he left much until after I had already finished the scene, but I agree. Even if I'm not doing an NTR playthrough, I enjoyed those scenes. So I could definitely see adding some NTR content to the path where you let Robert join you but decide not to drug him.

Ideally I would still want to have some give and take even in that scenario rather than have Robert completely dominate though. Maybe a series of escalating scenes where both Robert and MC get some action before the usual vanilla NTR conclusion so the player could decide how far he wants to let things go. Robert makes it pretty clear that he could care less whether MC gets some action as long as it gets the girls worked up and more likely to give him what HE wants.

Maybe the player thinks MC is enough of a dick to be that way as well. To me, that would make MC enough of a dick to deserve whatever happens. I think it's a bit out of character for Christine to go along with that unless maybe out of jealousy if things heat up between MC and Jess while she and Robert are still there. I already have the event mapped out for how I would want it to go without Robert there. Will have to think about it some more and see how things might still fit if he was still there for at least some of the scenes.

Robert already gets the option to fuck Jess on the NTR path so potentially anything up to that would be fair game for an NTR scene with Jess although I think it's pretty questionable for it to happen with Christine still in the tub. I think it's more likely that I might add some intermediate scenes building up to the vanilla NTR conclusion.

So as far as things that might make sense to happen with them all in the tub, I'm thinking potentially handjob, fingering, tittyfucking, pussy eating, dick licking, blowjob are all possibilities, at least for Jess. I think it makes more sense for Jess to be willing to go farther than Christine and I also think if Christine is working for Silver then it's very unlikely that she'd go very much farther with Robert than she already does. I would picture Christine leaving for sure if things progressed as far as oral sex of any kind with anyone though (other than maybe herself). I don't have a matching environment for Christine's room so I can't expand on what happens there for either of them in the vanilla game without the backgrounds being wrong.

I also can't really see things progressing to any sort of MMF scene even with Jess (and definitely not with Christine) unless it's something relatively tame like a double handjob or something. I can't see her doing a DP or letting one of them fuck her while she blows the other one, at least not at that stage of the game. I could see that sort of thing happening on the Yacht, especially if MC let's Silver blackmail her on Patreon.

I actually already have maybe 1/3 of my new hot tub renders done so I will have to do some thinking about which scenes I could tweak to include an option for Robert to still be there. Some of them I might redo anyway since I decided to give both MC and Robert bigger dicks.

 

[BUsybat]

I think you have mentioned this already - this is a mod that you are doing out of your free time with no monetary compensation. So if you dont like NTR, just don't do it. Also someone said the NTR vibe may come off wrong if you force yourself into it.

While it does help to build up your variety scope and expanding your comfort zone as a personal development. There isnt really any real benefit unless u really plan to one day go public and release your own game. Now, that game
having an alternative NTR route choice would make the most commercial sense considering the porn meta these days is incest + harem . But if that is still very early days, nah, just continue with vanilla scenes that you are currently doing.

You have to enjoy and believe in your product before hoping others can patreon support it. If you don't enjoy making a game, might as well go back to work in real life lol. It has to be fun for you in my opinion

 

[khumak]

I think you have mentioned this already - this is a mod that you are doing out of your free time with no monetary compensation. So if you dont like NTR, just don't do it. Also someone said the NTR vibe may come off wrong if you force yourself into it.

While it does help to build up your variety scope and expanding your comfort zone as a personal development. There isnt really any real benefit unless u really plan to one day go public and release your own game. Now, that game
having an alternative NTR route choice would make the most commercial sense considering the porn meta these days is incest + harem . But if that is still very early days, nah, just continue with vanilla scenes that you are currently doing.

You have to enjoy and believe in your product before hoping others can patreon support it. If you don't enjoy making a game, might as well go back to work in real life lol. It has to be fun for you in my opinion

Oh I definitely agree. If I do my own game it'll be something I personally enjoy. As you mention for now this is just a hobby and I'm not making any money at it so if I don't like it, what's the point? If I do try to make money by making my own game I think it's questionable whether I could ever get to where I'm making enough for that to become a full time job.

I've seen the patreon pages for most of the games on here that I've tried and almost none of them are making enough to justify quitting your real job unless you hate it so much that you're willing to take a huge pay cut. Summertime Saga and Babysitter are really the only 2 I can think of and even then it's questionable since both of those games are not made by a single person they have a team. $10k per month just for me, sure that's close enough to actually consider doing full time. $10k for 2 or 3 people? That wouldn't even cover my mortgage, so part time hobby would be my only option. I can only think of a few other pages I've seen where it's just a single developer and they're hitting even $5k per month.

I do plan to include some things that are fairly popular that don't necessarily do anything for me as long as it's something I'm just sort of indifferent to rather than something I'm repulsed by just to see if I can do things like that in such a way that people like them. So foot fetish? Sure, I'll give it a shot and see if I get positive feedback. M/M? Hell no. But the majority of any scenes I make would be things that I personally like because I know what makes it hot for me and that's probably what makes other people like it as well.

NTR is a bit of a special case because I see it as a good tool for story development. When I'm playing someone else's game I generally am not very interested in playing through the NTR content, but I do find the threat of the NTR for failure to be a positive to the story even for a non NTR playthrough. I also like the idea of using NTR or something similar as a negative consequence for certain choices rather than an abrupt bad ending or just a negative score adjustment.

So adding some NTR to the mod would be a test for me to see whether I think I can do it right. There are definitely some implementations I've seen of NTR that I don't like. I think the challenge for me would be to set it up in such a way that it only happens if it seems like the MC deserves that outcome. Sort of a case where you're looking at it from the perspective of the female. I think the main difference for any NTR scenes I do compared to most of the games I've seen that have NTR is the idea of justification and pacing. If I can't find a way to do it so that I personally like it I won't do it. I especially don't like it when NTR is guaranteed to happen no matter what you do.

I would never want to abruptly toss a player into an NTR scene where they weren't expecting it. I would want any NTR scenes I do to be set up so that if the player has gotten to that point, they know it's coming and most likely they want it. For instance MC chose to cheat on his wife or something and there were plenty of hints about her getting suspiscious/jealous/etc before and during before she decides to go fuck whoever his nemesis is (or his best friend or whatever). I'd be a lot less likely to have a scene where she cheats on him first unless I'm setting something up for the MC to get revenge. If I'm doing something like that I'd probably actually open with it so players don't have a chance to make any sort of an attachment with that character, she's just a bitch from the start...

I think players get upset if they did everything right and still get punished. Most players also expect there to be a way to "win" any game they're playing so for most people guaranteed NTR means they're guaranteed to lose. So if you're doing a scene like that there needs to be a good reason for it or people will be pissed off by it. By contrast if you're playing a game where you're constantly cheating on your wife or girlfriend or whatever, I don't think most people would be surprised to see her retaliate. And most would agree that he deserved it.

 

[khumak]

Ok here's a couple of sort of "proof of concept" NTR renders. I'm guessing this is the type of thing NTR fans want to see? Finished renders will not be grainy like this. For anyone who is not an NTR fan, don't worry most of my mod will continue to focus on non NTR scenes and this stuff will be entirely avoidable.

For those of you who ARE NTR fans, let me know if this is or is not what you're looking for.

 

[crisbr]

Ok here's a couple of sort of "proof of concept" NTR renders. I'm guessing this is the type of thing NTR fans want to see? Finished renders will not be grainy like this. For anyone who is not an NTR fan, don't worry most of my mod will continue to focus on non NTR scenes and this stuff will be entirely avoidable.

For those of you who ARE NTR fans, let me know if this is or is not what you're looking for.

View attachment 202769 View attachment 202770

OHH yeah man that it xD MORE WE NEED MORE ..
Please create a good plot for ntr and very exciting to see these things for more than people say they do not like them will all play ....It was very exciting to see the dialogues and the doubts that the woman stays etc ... sorry mi english!!

 

[khumak]

OHH yeah man that it xD MORE WE NEED MORE ..
Please create a good plot for ntr and very exciting to see these things for more than people say they do not like them will all play ....It was very exciting to see the dialogues and the doubts that the woman stays etc ... sorry mi english!!

I'm planning to add a small NTR expansion to my day 10 hot tub event as a test to see if people like it. It'll definitely be smaller than the non NTR hot tub scenes but I think I can do a little bit of mixing and matching to reuse some of the content for both. Depending on the camera angle I use I don't see any reason that some of the scenes in my regular expansion couldn't still work with Robert there as well.

For some of them he will purely be a spectator and then have his own scene after that. For others he might swap places with MC or something in my normal scene. Some of them will be unique to both. How much NTR I do will probably depend on how many of my normal scenes I can easily tweak to add Robert without having to change everything else. Most likely the NTR scenes will include a mix of both MC and Robert alternating between being part of the action and being spectators.

For some of the scenes I've already done I will probably end up omitting a few shots from camera angles that should show Robert if he's still there and I rendered it without him. Recreating the scene just for 1 or 2 renders isn't worth it IMO. So for example I've already done Christine's naked lapdance for MC without Robert. So that can still happen even if he's still there but I think there's a few shots from behind MC that would get omitted if he's there. I'm not going to redo it.

I also still have the vanilla conclusion for the NTR scene to tie in with it so I don't think it makes sense for them to take it farther than the vanilla conclusion in the build up phase. That still leaves plenty of room for all sorts of hanky panky though.

I will probably also set it up so that the NTR path is still "winnable" by non NTR fans in such a way that they can progress through the NTR path with both MC and Robert getting some action and depending on their choices either MC or Robert can come out on top. So if I do that and you don't drug him Robert will be guaranteed to get some action but he won't be guaranteed to get the winning finale. That might work well for NTR fans as well since my normal scenes will probably go farther than my NTR scenes. So you can have some of both even on the NTR path.

So if Robert wins then it'll transition to the usual NTR finale. If MC does then it'll transition to my non NTR finale. That will take some extra coding work since the way the event is written now (both in the vanilla game and in my mod), those two paths are entirely exclusive with the exception of my choice of whether to drug Robert, which switches you from the NTR path to the non NTR path. So if I do that I'll need to do something like that later as well to give the player a way to switch back if they want.

If you drug him then MC will automatically win and Robert will not be there for most if not all of the new NTR scenes. I might let him stay there for a few of the tamer scenes even if you drug him. Not sure how strong the reaction would be if he got a handjob or something before passing out. Maybe do something to make sure the MC is getting the upper hand if you drug him since he'll be fading even before he passes out.

In any case I'm looking forward to seeing how it turns out.

So the new hot tub event will basically have a normal path, an NTR path, and a bit of a convoluted mixed path that includes some of both. At least that's the plan.

 

[crisbr]

Bro i was going to start playing the new version of your mod, but I'm going to wait for this new update to come out. I'm very anxious to play this mod it ntr ...congratulate you because you are a person who is very open to new ideas. you as a developer are of the same congratulations .... as I see that more and more creates interesting new contents improves the dialogs .. just a question the official game walkthrough works normally with your mod or not

 

[khumak]

Bro i was going to start playing the new version of your mod, but I'm going to wait for this new update to come out. I'm very anxious to play this mod it ntr ...congratulate you because you are a person who is very open to new ideas. you as a developer are of the same congratulations .... as I see that more and more creates interesting new contents improves the dialogs .. just a question the official game walkthrough works normally with your mod or not

I haven't looked at the walkthrough in quite awhile so I'm not sure. I did change some of the vanilla choices that result in a game over bad ending if your corruption is high so there may be some places the walkthrough tells you to avoid a bad ending where in my mod it might be a good choice.

 

[BUsybat]

There are two versions of NTR. What most ppl are aware of is the western version whereby two ppl must be either in a relationship or at the very least have strong feelings for each other and one of them was taken/ or had sex with a third party which is known by the one who is left. What most ppl may be unaware is the Japaneses version which does not require a two sided relationship. In fact generally speaking the NTRed guy is usually secretly in love with gal who later got stolen.

Both versions are technically correct in their respective cultures. Just thought u may want to know

In BS plot setting, MC was definitely NTRed with Christine taken away from Robert and Silver. Western version applies here. Jessica however not so much in Western version as one could argue she is promiscuous. So Japanese version applies better here but even that is a bit forced as MC doesnt really have feelings for Jess

So on to your pics - Nice renders btw. I think NTR as with other genres is all about good writing and synergy with game plot.
MC is pretty pissed here and looks like hes about to wack Robert which doesn't necessary flow well with what we have established of him. From the yacht pool and hot tub scene, his tone is rather calm with a mild touch of sadness. To be fair, I haven't played any of your mods so I am not sure if there have been any behaviour changes so his impression is based on the original version.

So back to NTR . How it starts is straightforward enough, the essence however is what happens during and after the NTR. If the MC is angry pissed like your pic, he seems relatively aggressive and should be able to take matters in his own hands instead of continuing to let it happen. So this is why most (actually all) NTR scenes, I have not once seem a angry NTR dude trying to do something. The NTR genre guy is always portrayed as weak, not being able to do anything, to let it all unfold in front of him. Very passive , negative characteristics and usually ends up a peeping tom. Which is probably why some ppl dont like these type of games as its unable to win like u wrote.

So yea, nothing wrong with your renders and aggressive/angry could work but it means you have to change quite a few narratives to have better synergy across of the MC. A better plot example could be MC was cocky at the beginning and didnt see Robert as a threat and continue to fool around or didnt appreciate Christine enough (hence the bad choices). When he saw it happened for the first time, he got angry like your pics. Like a fool, he tried to force things instead of being smart. (Grab Christine to come to him / Order Christine to no longer hang out with Robert aka more bad choices). It is only when he got NTRed so bad that he finally did a 360 behaviour swing and try to win her back - giving players a winning route should they choose so.

On a somewhat off topic subject, incest is heavy thrown around these days. But the best incest game in my opinion is Dreaming of Dana. Becoz it really touch heavily on the consequences of incest and society's perception/ pressure if one chooses incest with siblings. It has a beautiful ending but also very realistic & believable. Whereas all of the other incest games is just pure corruption/drugs/blackmail with no real consequences.

it is all about good writing.

PS - Its a bit funny trying to teach NTR to a non NTR person but I commemorate for being out of your comfort zone. Not easy for sure.

 

[khumak]

Yeah I'm not really clear on the "official" definition for NTR. There are several threads about it where people argue quite a bit about it. When I say NTR I really just mean that the girl(s) that the MC has an interest in get taken from him by his adversary(s).
I have definitely noticed a trend for most NTR scenes I've seen where the MC ends up being passive/submissive and I can't really see myself writing/rendering it that way. If the submissive aspect is what appeals to people then they probably won't like my scenes. I could see writing MC as submissive if it was a female MC but I just can't relate to a submissive male. I've also seen a fair amount of NTR that seems to focus on humiliating the MC and that's another path I won't be taking other than maybe some gloating or "in your face" type gestures or whatever.

For it to work for me I want a legitimate struggle between MC and his adversary where either of them can come out on top. If MC is entirely submissive then he's basically guaranteed to lose. I'll go through the vanilla game's NTR dialog some more as well but from what I remember it wasn't written with the MC being submissive, it's just that he had zero choices that actually led to a good outcome once he started down that path so he was guaranteed to lose. He does make several mentions about "hating that guy" so I think anger is a reasonable emotion. I don't plan to have the scene develop into violence but that doesn't mean he can't be angry/frustrated.

The only "submissive" option I remember was the choice of whether to stop Robert from actually fucking Jess or let it happen and that part I don't plan to change if Robert ends up coming out on top. I do remember pretty much ALL of the truth questions on the NTR path being clearly the worst option for the MC. I always took the dare on that path, so I guess if you did the truth options instead that would have been more humiliating.

I may decide to change this scene if the renders I'm doing now don't match up well to the vanilla dialog. I just wanted to get a few test renders done to see what NTR fans thought. I still plan to redo the entire event with my vanilla renders and add some NTR stuff as well. If people end up not liking the NTR then I'll know to focus on something else. The whole point of adding the NTR for this scene though is to get feedback so I have a better idea what it is that people like about it. Since I'm not personally a fan I might end up focusing on something that NTR fans don't find appealing. I'm intentionally trying to narrow the focus a bit to the parts I'm ok with so that I'm not trying to develop scenes that I personally dislike.

 

[Nalex]

Well Khumak … A picture of the original game to make you see and understand your "error", imo. Compare the Christine's fingers and the cock, then look at your pictures … You know what I mean ?!

 

[BUsybat]

Well Khumak … A picture of the original game to make you see and understand your "error", imo. Compare the Christine's fingers and the cock, then look at your pictures … You know what I mean ?!
View attachment 202902

U mean once u go black u never go back ? Lol

 

[khumak]

Well Khumak … A picture of the original game to make you see and understand your "error", imo. Compare the Christine's fingers and the cock, then look at your pictures … You know what I mean ?!
View attachment 202902

I'll admit that Robert's dick does seem consistently huge. MC's dick seems more reasonable some of the time and unrealistically large other times. For instance this shot he looks big but not like some sort of mutant porn star:



And to illustrate my point about clipping issues, this is the default size for Dicktator:


If I made their dicks this big, even the biggest settings for mouth/pussy would not be big enough for this thing to fit so there would be obvious clipping. So I had to pick some reasonable amount to reduce the scale by to avoid having tons of issues with clipping and the game devs never gave any sort of confirmation on what settings they used so I'm just picking my own setting.

 

[electricstar]

It does seem like to the size of their cocks change between scenes. You can probably split the difference. Just to add my own two cents, I would definitely enjoy a more competitive edge to the hothub scene where either the MC or Robert could win all

See the attached pictures of Robert's cock stretching out Christine's mouth and a seeming difference in the MC's cock size

 

[Roman DeVil]

...may we expect the update of your mod for the new v.0.1.7?...