- Nov 10, 2020
- 5,435
- 11,678
Some think the Ewoks ate the stormtroopers after the battle of Endor are you telling me you wouldn't want Tybalt or Madame to run into one of those little guys
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- Sep 20, 2018
- 3,366
- 13,960
I agree with DPC that quality takes time and I'm not going to complain about the production times in and of themselves. But I also think he's completely ducking out of the question of whether he's using his time effectively.
It's hard to believe there's no fat to cut out of the game when Madame Rose has been given such a prominent spot in the last two episodes, for example. It's also unclear how much value these lavish animations are adding to the game. Personally, I feel like the added lighting has actually make the new renders look worse than the more simplistic versions in Season 1; it makes minute flaws stand out more and calls attention away from the emotional content that (IMHO) should be the focus. And a lot of the animations in the Interlude (Zoey spinning on the stool, the small motions of characters in the tattoo parlor, etc.) were annoying distractions. The game would have been better for using simple static renders.
The term 'gilding the lily' exists for a reason: at best you're wasting huge resources beautifying something that was already beautiful, and at worst you're replacing a natural beauty with something artificial and tacky. The point being that even once the game is completed, there's no guarantee DPC's inability to cut content will have made the game better simply because it has more stuff in it.
Now obviously that's going to be a judgement call and DPC is certainly in a position to make that call. For all the high gloss and professionalism DPC cultivates, at the end of the day BaDIK is a passion project; he's telling the story he wants to see. I can respect that even if I don't agree, but does make me worry about the future of this game. Creating art is always a delicate balancing act: focus too much on the audience and you have nothing to say worth hearing, but focus too little on the audience and no one will be able to understand the message you do have. If DPC is laser-focused on his own ideal to the exclusion of all else, the end result is likely to be extremely idiosyncratic.
As far as Episodes 10-12 being smaller than Episode 9, I'm afraid I'm going to have to be extremely cynical here. I get that DPC is really excited about the Halloween events, but from my point of view he's deluding himself. First, because DPC already undermined the Halloween party by making it the third giant party in a row; if he knew Episode 9 was going to have a heavy party focus, maybe do something else in Episode 8 to cleanse the palate. It's especially bad since several of the post-crossroads relationships are difficult to mesh with a big frat party: Jill is unlikely to attend, and Bella and Maya/Josy need to be kept secret. For those branches, the party feels more like a minefield than a celebration. That's an awkward place to stage such a massive set-piece.
There's also the question of what comes next. DPC can say he plans to go smaller, but he hasn't really demonstrated he can do that. The closest thing to a smaller episode he's attempted was Episode 5, which starts with a wall-to-wall fuckfest at the preps party then slams us with the destruction of the mansion AND a side-helping of Bella/Jill antics. He doesn't seem to like the idea of lulls in the story, even though they're an important part of making the peaks feel significant. Until he shows that he's capable of restraint, I think it's entirely fair to worry about him padding out Episodes 10-12 with empty spectacle just to keep them from feeling short/cheap. That has some short term appeal, but it may actually make the story of the game worse in the long run despite the added production time.
Hopefully I'm wrong to worry. If the party-planning mini-game works like the mansion repair game (we work towards a long-term goal all season long), maybe DPC really does intend to go a little more low key in Season 3. That would help the Halloween party stand out, and at least give us a shot at some smaller, tighter episodes 10-12. So we shouldn't lose hope. But man, seeing DPC make comments like the one above does nothing to nurture that hope.
Yes, precisely this. If that 1:23 animation achieves something a short animation could not (be it staging, emotional content, titillation, what have you), then DPC is doing the right thing and the long production times, while unfortunate, are ultimately a good thing. But if we could achieve the same effect with a couple of 10 second animations and some better editing, then DPC's perfectionism is ultimately harming his own game, whether he wants to admit that or not.
We'll see where we stand (relatively) soon.
Honestly, I'm not really a fan of pausing Patreon payments. Obviously milking exists and it's a bad thing, but at the same quality DOES take time and I don't think creators should be ashamed of that. To me, pausing payments should be reserved for cases where the game production really is halted, like if a dev needs to shelve his hobby for an extended time to focus on his actual job, that sort of thing.
Otherwise, even if the dev isn't working as quickly as they themselves want, I think it would be better if they left payments on and left it up to us as patrons to decide whether their output is worthwhile. If we want to hold devs' feet to the fire, I think transparency is a much better tool: we should insist on regular communications that properly convey what is being worked on and where the targets are. In that sense I think DPC scores fairly well despite the long production times, though a few more numbers in the early process would be nice.
Not to rain on your parade, but as I said above, I'm not sure how well integrated this Halloween special is going to be. It's an awkward fit with 3 of the 5 branches, to say nothing of reintroducing Zoey. I feel like it's another victim of the way DPC mishandled the crossroads.Just a little optimistic perspective to share regarding the duration of episode 9's development.
A lot of popular games here follow a tradition of a Halloween and/or a Christmas special. I find these tedious as they are typically a complete break from the game's canon. It's painful because it has nothing to do with the story other than using the same characters (even if some of them aren't even in character for the special), and obviously the main game development grinds to a halt during this process.
We've already had the deviation of the Interlude that many feel was highly unnecessary, so if DPC took another break from the game's core just to do a random Halloween special, that'd be another kick in the balls.
Instead, we have a fully integrated Halloween special embedded into the main story. An episode, and a special, all rolled into one. Where instead of a deviation from the main story, the Halloween component continues the story. I'd rather that, than a special, anytime.
So, at the end of the day, or year as the case may be... When episode 9 comes out, it'll be episode 9 plus a special. Perhaps justifying the excessive wait this episode has enforced on us. And perhaps future episodes won't be this long.
Like I said, an optimistic perspective, even if shrouded in delusion.
But we'll see. I appreciate you trying to keep my spirits up.
There may be some crybabies out there, but I think the vast majority are just frustrated because building a team *IS* the proper response to a project that is beyond the scope of a single individual. Even in the world of art, visionaries still benefit from support. It took a lot of supervision by George Lucas for ILM to deliver the special effects that make the original Star Wars trilogy legendary, but I doubt we'd have been even better off waiting for Lucas to personally craft each of those effects himself. Indeed, the success of Empire suggests we might have benefitted from Lucas needing to work through the right intermediaries.
But at the end of the day, running a business is a very different thing than developing a game. George Lucas was comfortable becoming a businessman to make it easier to create movies; Dr Pink Cake isn't comfortable becoming a businessman to make it easier to produce games. It's a shame for us, but it is what it is.
So no, I don't think people wishing DPC would hire a team are being crybabies. I do think they're ultimately lamenting that we live in an imperfect world, so there's not much to be gained debating the matter. But they aren't being malicious or stupid, and it can be cathartic to vent about it once in a while. Cut them a little slack.
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- Jun 30, 2020
- 929
- 3,429
Are you sure?
(Alternatively imagine your favorite girl)
(Alternatively imagine your favorite girl)
- Jun 15, 2022
- 5,889
- 37,467
Everything must be done so that the MC's dick becomes the last for our Rio, the narcs can peck each others asses.Poor Riona, she's definitely going to be fucked over by narcs at some point.
And if Lily turns out to be a narc, my mc may consider not fucking her anymore!
She just needs to get rid of Quinn's influence.I don't think Lily uses anything stronger than weed.
I am generally sure that DPC has reached the peak of its capabilities in the number of audience and has reached a plateau. By the way, you can see a small surge, this is the release of Interlude, then stabilization at the current 11.5-13.5k / month.
- Dec 23, 2018
- 5,140
- 19,837
Well, now we have a conundrum. Does banging Maya in Ewok costume count as furry.
- Apr 8, 2019
- 25
- 22
- Oct 22, 2022
- 145
- 2,200
According to the blueprints of scriptwriting, it's time for the shit hit the fan, bad guys will close in, and the MC will enter in the dark night of the soul.
Incipit tragœdia
- Sep 3, 2016
- 713
- 10,038
When you play earlier episodes it's quite easy to spot some of the causes of such long development times during season 2 and after.
Like this for example, during the first episodes if he wanted to show off a girl he'd make a render for her:
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After seeing this it's quite easy to understand why it's starting to take so long to pump an episode out, if he could he probably would turn this whole thing into an interactive TV show but seeing as he can't, he just keeps adding animations on top of animations that add little touches here and there.
Now, I'm not saying the animations are bad, on the contrary actually, I enjoy them more than I thought I would, but I don't think the trade-off between having said animations and the time it takes to make them is net positive unfortunately...
- Jun 15, 2022
- 5,889
- 37,467
I'm sure that Episodes 10-12 should have some powerful drama with a cool script that will keep the player in a tense state, make them worry, cry and scream.I agree with DPC that quality takes time and I'm not going to complain about the production times in and of themselves. But I also think he's completely ducking out of the question of whether he's using his time effectively.
It's hard to believe there's no fat to cut out of the game when Madame Rose has been given such a prominent spot in the last two episodes, for example. It's also unclear how much value these lavish animations are adding to the game. Personally, I feel like the added lighting has actually make the new renders look worse than the more simplistic versions in Season 1; it makes minute flaws stand out more and calls attention away from the emotional content that (IMHO) should be the focus. And a lot of the animations in the Interlude (Zoey spinning on the stool, the small motions of characters in the tattoo parlor, etc.) were annoying distractions. The game would have been better for using simple static renders.
The term 'gilding the lily' exists for a reason: at best you're wasting huge resources beautifying something that was already beautiful, and at worst you're replacing a natural beauty with something artificial and tacky. The point being that even once the game is completed, there's no guarantee DPC's inability to cut content will have made the game better simply because it has more stuff in it.
Now obviously that's going to be a judgement call and DPC is certainly in a position to make that call. For all the high gloss and professionalism DPC cultivates, at the end of the day BaDIK is a passion project; he's telling the story he wants to see. I can respect that even if I don't agree, but does make me worry about the future of this game. Creating art is always a delicate balancing act: focus too much on the audience and you have nothing to say worth hearing, but focus too little on the audience and no one will be able to understand the message you do have. If DPC is laser-focused on his own ideal to the exclusion of all else, the end result is likely to be extremely idiosyncratic.
As far as Episodes 10-12 being smaller than Episode 9, I'm afraid I'm going to have to be extremely cynical here. I get that DPC is really excited about the Halloween events, but from my point of view he's deluding himself. First, because DPC already undermined the Halloween party by making it the third giant party in a row; if he knew Episode 9 was going to have a heavy party focus, maybe do something else in Episode 8 to cleanse the palate. It's especially bad since several of the post-crossroads relationships are difficult to mesh with a big frat party: Jill is unlikely to attend, and Bella and Maya/Josy need to be kept secret. For those branches, the party feels more like a minefield than a celebration. That's an awkward place to stage such a massive set-piece.
There's also the question of what comes next. DPC can say he plans to go smaller, but he hasn't really demonstrated he can do that. The closest thing to a smaller episode he's attempted was Episode 5, which starts with a wall-to-wall fuckfest at the preps party then slams us with the destruction of the mansion AND a side-helping of Bella/Jill antics. He doesn't seem to like the idea of lulls in the story, even though they're an important part of making the peaks feel significant. Until he shows that he's capable of restraint, I think it's entirely fair to worry about him padding out Episodes 10-12 with empty spectacle just to keep them from feeling short/cheap. That has some short term appeal, but it may actually make the story of the game worse in the long run despite the added production time.
Hopefully I'm wrong to worry. If the party-planning mini-game works like the mansion repair game (we work towards a long-term goal all season long), maybe DPC really does intend to go a little more low key in Season 3. That would help the Halloween party stand out, and at least give us a shot at some smaller, tighter episodes 10-12. So we shouldn't lose hope. But man, seeing DPC make comments like the one above does nothing to nurture that hope.
For example, I'm waiting for a story about the real origin of the MC. I feel like my hair will stand on end. The DPC didn't just give us Lynette's diary.
Or even more interesting scenario. When Sage finds out about Quinn's dark dealings within sorority and that her "father" is also involved. How will she realize that her best friend was cheating on her and using the girls to earn money, how Sage will react and how Quinn will defend herself. I want to see something like a power struggle in sorority, Team Sage vs Team Quinn. Civil War. Such a small local Dance of the Dragons.
A cool scenario and a break in the plot at the most interesting place will help the player's interest not to cool down during the long wait of 9-10 months.
He knows how to break the plot in the endings
- May 17, 2020
- 11,549
- 22,422
AVNs are basically a bubble that has already peaked in the lockdown years, now it is much easier to drop than to rise, this especially for games that have already reached a large audience
- Jun 15, 2022
- 5,889
- 37,467
And he's still called a lazy milker by someones
- May 17, 2020
- 11,549
- 22,422
And he's still called a lazy milker by someones
technically if you haven't reached a large audience you can't really be a "milker"....
- Sep 7, 2022
- 13
- 57
**EPISODE 8**
* 10/22/2021 – Final status update / Start of beta testing
* 02/11/2021 – Final preview released
* 03/11/2021 – Beta testing status report
* 09/11/2021 – Release date announced
* 19/11/2021 – Episode 8 released
Historically, there is about 1 month between when DPC announces beta testing starting and the episode being released. If we are hopeful that the animations will be on the faster side of the 4-5 weeks, that puts us at the status update for 02/12/2022.
If that turns out to be when he announces beta testing, it is feasible that a January 2023 release is possible. I think a lot of the initial testing will be internal during this month of render time and so hopefully the work load for his beta testers will be smaller, however this is still the largest update to date and with an assumed huge number of variables due to the new path system. We could be looking at a normal to long beta test period.
* 10/22/2021 – Final status update / Start of beta testing
* 02/11/2021 – Final preview released
* 03/11/2021 – Beta testing status report
* 09/11/2021 – Release date announced
* 19/11/2021 – Episode 8 released
Historically, there is about 1 month between when DPC announces beta testing starting and the episode being released. If we are hopeful that the animations will be on the faster side of the 4-5 weeks, that puts us at the status update for 02/12/2022.
If that turns out to be when he announces beta testing, it is feasible that a January 2023 release is possible. I think a lot of the initial testing will be internal during this month of render time and so hopefully the work load for his beta testers will be smaller, however this is still the largest update to date and with an assumed huge number of variables due to the new path system. We could be looking at a normal to long beta test period.
- Aug 4, 2020
- 3,506
- 19,701
At this point, if DPC doesn't deviate from his own style as set out in the first 8 episodes, I don't see how he's at risk of alienating his audience.
His style of humor is, from what I gather, rather universal. His timing with scenes and music is very enjoyable, and the sex always integrates well (in AL I found it was very jarring, but BaDIK nails it - pun intended). His scene direction and dialogue is very engaging. So far, it's been a very fun ride, and this is all using his own intuition, not bending to client requests.
The Madame was the only misstep in my book, and that could just be me, not being into grotesque, aging, fetid, animated corpses, I don't know how well she rates on that scale.
The concern with parties: To me, there needed to be more. The DIKs are a party frat, and they've had a reason for putting the brakes on (the mansion being trashed and all), but they are back in business, and there needs to be parties all the time (well not all the time, but like every Friday and/or Saturday night if we're gonna use real world comparisons here).
This is college life, parties, drinking and sex are what it's all about (you might be looking to get a degree or something, but that's secondary
), but of course it's got to be kept from become mundane (we all know how wall to wall sex in our own lives just becomes a drag after a while ).With the new party planning minigame, parties are sure to focus throughout season 3. This is exactly where I wanted the game to go. For me at that age, there were no fraternities and shit at out universities, but we'd go "clubbing" (going to night clubs/dance clubs) to hook up with girls (a few years before dating apps kinda fucked that scene up). Those were just legendary times. Screaming into some girl's ear who you've been dancing with for the last hour:
dude: Hey, wanna fuck?!
hot babe: WHAT?
dude: I SAID, WANNA GO FUCK SOMEWHERE?!
hot babe: I CAN'T HERE YOU!
dude: ...
hot babe: HEY, YOU WANNA GET LAID TONIGHT?!
dude: WHAT?! IT'S TOO FUCKING LOUD IN HERE!
Ahh, the good old days.
He's managed the intertwining paths so far without it feeling fucked up or out of place, mostly. Not sure why people are concerned he suddenly can't handle this. The only difference (and I guess it's quite significant) is that in the past, events with different LIs took place in different locations. In this case, it'll be the same location, with similar events but plotted around the LI of choice. It should be pretty cool to see things pan out differently, but similar, when replaying the scenes with different LIs.Not to rain on your parade, but as I said above, I'm not sure how well integrated this Halloween special is going to be. It's an awkward fit with 3 of the 5 branches, to say nothing of reintroducing Zoey. I feel like it's another victim of the way DPC mishandled the crossroads.
But we'll see. I appreciate you trying to keep my spirits up.
Kinda makes me think about how if you're on Jill's path, you meet her friends, but if you're on Quinn's path, you see two of her friends fooling around with eachothers' partner. That was pretty cool.
If he had imposing deadlines, or he was getting paid for the job, not for the time it took, that'd be incentive to get a team in to speed things along. But alas Patreon's incentives are the complete opposite to that.There may be some crybabies out there, but I think the vast majority are just frustrated because building a team *IS* the proper response to a project that is beyond the scope of a single individual. Even in the world of art, visionaries still benefit from support. It took a lot of supervision by George Lucas for ILM to deliver the special effects that make the original Star Wars trilogy legendary, but I doubt we'd have been even better off waiting for Lucas to personally craft each of those effects himself. Indeed, the success of Empire suggests we might have benefitted from Lucas needing to work through the right intermediaries.
But at the end of the day, running a business is a very different thing than developing a game. George Lucas was comfortable becoming a businessman to make it easier to create movies; Dr Pink Cake isn't comfortable becoming a businessman to make it easier to produce games. It's a shame for us, but it is what it is.
So no, I don't think people wishing DPC would hire a team are being crybabies. I do think they're ultimately lamenting that we live in an imperfect world, so there's not much to be gained debating the matter. But they aren't being malicious or stupid, and it can be cathartic to vent about it once in a while. Cut them a little slack.
Anyway, I'm not sure if I wanna cut those crybabies some slack.
[/QUOTE]
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- Jun 15, 2022
- 5,889
- 37,467
Yes, it is enough just to be rich with a large audience and you automatically become a milker.
technically if you haven't reached a large audience you can't really be a "milker"....
- Nov 10, 2020
- 5,435
- 11,678
- Jun 15, 2022
- 5,889
- 37,467
Girls who want to get bukkake but are afraid to invite several guys can ask MC for help. He alone cum like a whole ten guys brigade.
- Dec 2, 2018
- 264
- 1,151
This response gives a clear picture of DPC's mentality. As anyone could have hypothesised, he is developing this game for no one else's sake, other than his own. This is his life's work, and he wants it to be perfect, down to the tiniest of details. That is why he will happily increase the quality of renders, the length and quality of animations, as well as include more characters, free roam events and mini-games. In his mind, this makes the game more perfect, and he could not care less if it means the player will only get to play one episode per year.
He is refusing to make any sort of compromises that could benefit the development cycles. To avoid needing to compromise, he defends himself with arguments that don't make sense, and are contradictory to other statements he has made. For example, he says shorter update times would inevitably mean cutting content and deviating from what he has planned. This clearly is not true: he has repeatedly stated that he is increasing the quality of both the renders and the animations, as well as writing code that is increasingly complex. Could he not, then, settle for an appropriate level of quality in order to avoid longer rendering times? Could he not choose to make less elaborate minigames that are less taxing from a programming standpoint? Of course he could, but he does not want to, because he is developing the game for himself.
Additionally, he states that the episodes are planned long in advance, and that his hands are therefore tied. He simply cannot reduce the size, because it has already been determined. This is also a lie. DPC said he planned for Episode 9 to be smaller than Episode 8, yet that did not happen. This proves that his plans are not set in stone, and that he adds elements that weren't planned, or else he would never have been able to say that the episode was going the be smaller in the first place. Could he not choose to not include all of the extra, unplanned content he evidently decides to include? Of course he could, but again, he is developing the game for himself.
It is a fact at this point that DPC is adding content that doesn't matter to the overall impression of the game. Madame must be the most obvious example of this. She is there for one reason, and one reason only, which is to provide an opportunity for lewd scenes. More lewd scenes, in a game that already has 15 other more interesting characters to choose from, and which is already packed with lewd content. To say that this is unnecessary is an understatement - it is a complete waste of time. Yet still, plenty of rendering capacity has been dedicated to her. By no means is Madame the only example either, the game is riddled with a whole range of "nice-to-haves", that aren't crucial for your experience. D&G, the mansion mini-game, characters such as Becky, Nora and Sandy, and improvements to a render and animation quality that was already stellar, are factors I would easily place into the "nice-to-have" category. This could have been done differently, but once more, he is developing the game for himself.
Should DPC compromise on his vision? I think he should. It's a nice argument in theory that Patreon is just a platform for people to make goodwill donations to support the work of creators, but this just isn't true in practice. When you make the game a reward for pledging, you are essentially selling a product, and your patrons become your customers. At that point, I feel like you should factor in how long you are taking to produce the product in question. I expect nothing to change, though, because patrons are some of the most uncritical individuals I have ever come across. They will accept just about anything, regardless of whether the creator is trustworthy or not. This is also why DPC can make claims such as "my recommendation would be to stop supporting me", because he knows that he has a massive audience of people who will mindlessly praise anything he puts out. The statement makes him seem grounded, but I doubt he would be so dismissive of criticism if he didn't have such a huge backing of patrons who have no expectations whatsoever.
It truly is extremely unfortunate that the development is heading in this direction. Without a shadow of a doubt, Being a DIK is the best AVN out there, but we will soon reach a point where we only get to enjoy it once per year, and will need to remain committed for another ten years to see its completion. That just isn't reasonable. If DPC told you after Episode 1 that the game is likely going to take 14 years to finish, I don't think your reaction would have been "sounds good", so I don't see why that should be acceptable now.
I guess you can still hope that, even though DPC says he will not change, he still got himself some food-for-thought that could subconciously affect the time between updates. I still wouldn't expect it, though, because he is developing the game for himself, and has a tremendous number of supporters that have no problem with that.
I just wish he would go back and make updates like episode 3 and 4 having an update take 3 to 4 months for an update those updates were big enough with 2000 to 2500 renders instead he just wants to keep inproving everything which is commendable but his reasons are bullshit if he gave a shit about his supporters he would release more frequently i mean 1 update a year maybe even longer that's insane.