walker188

Active Member
Apr 30, 2017
658
1,928
I can admit that I like her. She's far from being my favorite girl, for sure, but she is great.
Don't get me wrong: she is awful as a person. Stupid, shallow, stuck-up and bitchy. But this type of female characters also has its charm (not in real life ofc, but perfect in a porn game). Look-wise, she isn't the best, though still quite hot (especially in her outfit during HOT part in ep. 7). It'd be great to see a proper sex scene with her in one of the future episodes, although judging by how her character is being treated by DPC, I don't count on it happening.

I actually really dislike what DPC did with her in this episode. She was always supposed to be this half-annoying, half-comedic (but bangable) character, but in ep. 9 she was turned into an absolute laughingstock without any redeeming qualities. Plus Derek's comment that her pussy stinks that takes away much of any possible erotic allure that the player could still feel from her.

I don't know why DPC always goes to extremes with these sorts of characters. It's a bit similar to how he made Tybalt into such a pathetic idiot and loser that it's literally impossible to treat him as any sort of antagonist on the Jill path. Alphas are also an example of this: threatening in ep. 1-2, later turned into comedic relief. Sure, it creates lot of comedy (which is BaDIK's strong point), but it's not really good for keeping the plot engaging.
There's a concept called Flanderization in media. Basically it works like this. Ned Flanders from the Simpsons in season 1 is just an overly friendly neighbor who is a little annoying in his politeness. He's a foil for Homer, but otherwise a pretty normal dude. By season 15, he's a Jesus freak hypochondriac, neurotic mess. Step by step his funny or unusual qualities got exaggerated u til they took over the character. Which as you pointed out is what happened to a lot of characters here.

What most people don't realize is that the line between Flanderization and character development is razor thin. Now Becky for example. Was she always kind of okay but kind of awful? Or was she always a shit bag, but we didn't realize it. Maybe she had this depth (ironic cause she's so shallow) all along and we only saw the surface. On the surface she's pretty, kind of funny and a little bitchy. I know a lot of girls like that. Some turn out to be really fun, cool people, and some turn out to be Beckies. Nothing she did I'm Ep 9 was out of character, it's just that she doesn't really have any redeeming qualities or REASON to act like this, this is all she is. She's surface all the way down.

Now the jocks are another interesting case. I'll reference Avatar the Last Airbender (and date myself horribly). There was an antagonist in the first season called Zuko. He was complicated and deep, and a threat to the main character, however his story was his own. He wasn't just and villain, he was more of an antagonist. An opposing force. One season of character development later, he was no longer suitable as a main bad guy. Not just because a significant portion of the show was now dedicated to his story, but also because the main character had grown beyond him in power and he simply wasn't a threat. And so another, stronger antagonist called Azula was brought it to be the main opponent.

The jocks we're good opponents in season 1 and 2, they had money, girls, institutional power and physical power. But at this point, the MC has more cash on hand than most college kids, leads his own Frat, every girl in the school wants him and if your anything like me, you've given a beat down to every single Alpha. Simply putz they are no longer threatening, cause you already won. And so new antagonists must be brought in. Caleb the Uber-Jock, Vinny the criminal, Burke the college administrator with power over ALL the girls your able to date.*

Now what some writers also fail at is that all stories MUST be temporary**. By it's very nature a story must have a beginning middle and end. With long form media (ie not a two hour film or single novel or short video game like Portal 1), the artist must balance the antagonist(s) against the length of the story. A good antagonist can't be too strong or weak. If they are multiple, the main antagonist must be brought in at the proper time and the weaker ones must be defeated or recruited in their proper times.

L let's go back to Avatar (you really need to watch it, it's incredibly well written). Imagine if the protagonist kept having to fight Zuko over and over again despite already beating him soundly many times over (or the new star wars with Rey and Kylo Ren if you will). There's no threat there. The story has no weight, no tension. Will will our hero win again ....after winning the last six times????

Yes.

Obviously.

But if your story is too long, or you don't plan well, this is a problem you run into. Characters are forced into roles because SOMEONE has to do it. It's why stories need to end early, even as much as we don't want them too, with some questions unanswered and some paths untraveled. So in that spirit I don't mind the jocks being comedic relief now. It's better than pretending they are still a threat.

Anyway, this turned out waaaaaway longer than I thought it would. Sorry.


*Caleb is the physical threat, Burke the institutional, Vinny I'm not sure. And no idea which if any is the main antagonist.

** Except for The never ending story!
 
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Geralt From Rivia

Forum Fanatic
Jun 15, 2022
5,358
32,754
I think this is the right one, season 1-2 just fucked up on me and complained about missing font file, which is still in the folder so I have to redownload, going by season 3 import screen this should be right though.
Yeah, something go wrong, "incompatible save". Download it in steam save folder.
 

toobextra

Member
Jun 1, 2021
146
1,640
It's funny, but I haven't had a single run where I haven't had fun with Sage.
Tell me about it man, I did try but bro i don't and i can't lead Sage on she's too precious to me. But it is awkward since in my canon run i did bang Jade... HOW THE FUCK WAS I SUPPOSE TO KNOW, hell i even thought Tybalt was Jade's & Stephen's biological child(Tybalt's blonde more like dirty blond hair, skin tone and shit, mostly the entitlement) but it turns out he's not.

Can't wait to find out what unfolds in my canon run.
 

shazba

Engaged Member
Aug 4, 2020
3,506
19,694
So what happens, no Neutral? This is strange because I have two successfully completed Jill routes on Neutral.
But for her to reject me, I must be CHICK. There is also an alternative opinion above - there should be no other girls besides Jill.
Jill will accept a neutral or Chick mc as long as you do the things I listed above.

If you do everything I listed above but you're a DIK, she'll reject you.

If you're a Chick or neutral and do everything right but don't go to the picnic, she'll reject you.
 
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SomboSteel

Active Member
May 8, 2017
572
3,433
I don't really agree with that. Jill has been created as a certain type of character and it's been consistent all along. She's naïve, she's thoughtful and wants to help. She's ultimately good, but often stubborn about it. But she also believes in destiny, signs and all that shit. She's very different to Sage, and the idea that the picnic decision is a big deal to Jill and means fuck all to Sage to me is more acceptable than whoever you don't choose will dump you. That would have been contrived. When you turn Sage down, she gets pissed for about 2 minutes and then she's over it.

You complain that it's not obvious to the character that this decision is quite serious. Do you need a "Spoiler: This decision will eventually end your relationship with Jill down track"? I don't want that kind of shit in the game. That's hand holding for snowflakes. It was clear to me this decision was huge.

When he let Jill down, she took it as a signed and distanced herself. He could have said, let's go later, but the weather changed anyway, and it would have been called off and Jill would have still taken it as a sign, and people would have complained that was contrived too.

The other option to go to the picnic and see Sage afterward (it's not like she wasn't dying) actually was something the mc tried to do, but Sage turned the mc down when he suggested this. DPC fucked this up because no one sees that exchange between the mc and Sage over text message because DPC didn't give us access to the phone after that scene, so we can't see the messaging. It's a legit bug that still hasn't been resolved. This link, the same as the one above, shows the exchange that we don't have access to because of a game bug.

In that scene, you choose the girl you wanna be with. If you're trying to fuck both girls, you're either breaking the prior engagement with Sage who isn't well (but the mc does offer to just visit her later but she blows him off, so actually that's not that bad of an option), or you're turning down an excited, naïve girl (who never takes the initiative with guys but has done so here) who's put together a surprise birthday picnic date.

To expect Jill to go, "Oh Fuckface, you're such a good friend to this other girl, your Chick points resonate with my own Chick persona, and now I love you even more for turning down the impromptu picnic that I just had some servant throw together for us." is to be deluding yourself. She's gonna feel some hurt, and she read more into it than she should have.

I'm sure there was a better way to write all of this, the entire story in fact. But it's been written this way, and it's good enough.
i definitely dont want a GIANT WARNING breaking the 4th wall and letting me know the ramifications of the choice, but there must have been ways to at least partially convey in an organic way how serious the choice was.

have a stupid aside with Bella where Jill confides in her that she will ask MC out on a picnic in the coming days and if things go well it will be the sign she is waiting for to know he just might be "the one". have her let the players know that this means more to her than literally anything else and that if it doesnt work out she will look for love elsewhere.

BAM! i just pulled that out of my ass this second and it makes the choice much less ambiguous and lets the player know that Jill is so unbelievable as a character that this is MC's only chance to seal the deal with her for the rest of literal ETERNITY

the issue is that with how much you interact with Jill after the picnic (whether you go or not) shows through COMMON SENSE that the stars could easily align another day and the picnic or whatever could still be there to give her the opportunity to size up MC and determine where they stand. if you dont choose the picnic and basically never crossed paths with Jill again, it makes perfect sense that it could be a point of no return in the game for that LI path. but you never actually lose LIs from the story, and there is no reason that using COMMON SENSE the MC could just talk to Jill one on one any other time he has dealt with her and they could share their feelings.

it DOESNT MAKE SENSE that Jill (who apparently thinks she might be literal soul mates with MC) doesnt attempt a reschedule herself or at least spill her guts to MC and give him the chance to "fight for her" in her mind. its not a particularly well written sequence of events and i understand why players are annoyed or confused that Jill put all her eggs in this one picnic basket. DPC didnt do a great job of getting information to the player pre-picnic and did a worse job (not) explaining why there was never anything about the missed date brought up ever again. i think the frustration is real due to how forced everything about this story line feels
 

Geralt From Rivia

Forum Fanatic
Jun 15, 2022
5,358
32,754
Tell me about it man, I did try but bro i don't and i can't lead Sage on she's too precious to me. But it is awkward since in my canon run i did bang Jade... HOW THE FUCK WAS I SUPPOSE TO KNOW, hell i even thought Tybalt was Jade's & Stephen's biological child(Tybalt's blonde more like dirty blond hair, skin tone and shit, mostly the entitlement) but it turns out he's not.

Can't wait to find out what unfolds in my canon run.
DPC wants you to be punished for your sins.:ROFLMAO: It's classic for him. I remembering how i get worst Acting Lessons ending possible, because my MC banged everything that moves.
 

Raziel_8

Engaged Member
Dec 4, 2017
3,431
8,758
Based. No game without Sage, i see you are a man of culture. :cool:
Obvious, a run without Sage and Nicole is just lacking :cool:

So what happens, no Neutral? This is strange because I have two successfully completed Jill routes on Neutral.
But for her to reject me, I must be CHICK. There is also an alternative opinion above - there should be no other girls besides Jill.
If you're a Chick or neutral and do everything right but don't go to the picnic, she'll reject you.
Yes but only if you reject all other main LI's, otherwise Jill is not a choice and she won't reject the MC, you just lose her path without any notification.
 
Nov 30, 2022
85
132
Just skip all the female drama and dick yourself some Derek :KEK:
:LUL:

at least there are honest working girls Sarah and Mel who always charge MC for sex and don't fuck his brains much :WeSmart:
Damn I forget about Camila, probably best of working girls as she often fucks with MC for free and doesn't try to get into his brain :Kappa:
 

shazba

Engaged Member
Aug 4, 2020
3,506
19,694
i definitely dont want a GIANT WARNING breaking the 4th wall and letting me know the ramifications of the choice, but there must have been ways to at least partially convey in an organic way how serious the choice was.

have a stupid aside with Bella where Jill confides in her that she will ask MC out on a picnic in the coming days and if things go well it will be the sign she is waiting for to know he just might be "the one". have her let the players know that this means more to her than literally anything else and that if it doesnt work out she will look for love elsewhere.

BAM! i just pulled that out of my ass this second and it makes the choice much less ambiguous and lets the player know that Jill is so unbelievable as a character that this is MC's only chance to seal the deal with her for the rest of literal ETERNITY

the issue is that with how much you interact with Jill after the picnic (whether you go or not) shows through COMMON SENSE that the stars could easily align another day and the picnic or whatever could still be there to give her the opportunity to size up MC and determine where they stand. if you dont choose the picnic and basically never crossed paths with Jill again, it makes perfect sense that it could be a point of no return in the game for that LI path. but you never actually lose LIs from the story, and there is no reason that using COMMON SENSE the MC could just talk to Jill one on one any other time he has dealt with her and they could share their feelings.

it DOESNT MAKE SENSE that Jill (who apparently thinks she might be literal soul mates with MC) doesnt attempt a reschedule herself or at least spill her guts to MC and give him the chance to "fight for her" in her mind. its not a particularly well written sequence of events and i understand why players are annoyed or confused that Jill put all her eggs in this one picnic basket. DPC didnt do a great job of getting information to the player pre-picnic and did a worse job (not) explaining why there was never anything about the missed date brought up ever again. i think the frustration is real due to how forced everything about this story line feels
Regarding whether we get another shot at any of the main LIs, we don't know for certain if it's truly over yet. I mean Sage suddenly became an option after 6 episodes of rejecting her, so it's hard to tell how final things are at this point. There are still hints at a solo route with at least Josy (not sure about Maya).

So maybe things can be patched up with Jill... :unsure:

The problem (and it's a good problem in my mind) is the girls don't all follow a formula. They don't feel like they have progression counters. They each have their own arbitrary criteria and potential. With Bella and Jill's routes it feels like reject once and it's over, but then Sage can handle multiple rejections and still come out on top, and then Josy is still pining for the mc after she and Maya did the rejecting.

I like that because it's unique. So many games in this genre are too obvious. And maybe that's what a lot of players prefer, a clear route and progression. But I prefer the applecart to be turned over. I like things happening that I didn't expect but are still plausible, and I like games that don't come across procedural or formulaic.

When the mc ran down to help Jill with her final date with Tybalt and profess his love for her, and she shot him down in flames, I was like, "You fucking cunt!" And I loved that turn of events. It wasn't what I wanted to happen right then and there, but I loved it for how I didn't see it coming, even though it was clear that Jill was cooling off on him (she didn't correct Derek's assertion that they "used" to date, and she told Josy there was this guy she "thought" she liked).

I enjoy this game for what it is. Twists and turns, lots of drama, hilarious nonsense, sexy girls, and well scripted dialogue. It's great escapism, and it's so much better than the rest out there. There are a few good ones emerging, so hopefully DPC gets knocked of his perch by someone even better soon, but I just don't get the difficulty people have with simply accepting the events as they pan out.

That's why the antagonist in AL didn't bother me as much as it did others who felt it came out of nowhere. It didn't come out of nowhere. The character was off from the beginning (I chalked it up to porn game behaviour at first, so I was still blindsided when it went down). And the "big decision" in that game, he could improve on the execution (had the mc struggle to save both and had him weaken due to smoke inhalation and ultimately have to make the same decision), but the outcome was very impactful. People went berserk at him because they didn't want that. Personally I lost interest in the game after that, but that was due to the mc's reaction, not the events themselves.

Mind you, if Vinny just came in and started shooting people, I'm not gonna defend that. It would be wrong for the story.

But back to Jill. No matter how anyone looks at it, how they want to logically look at the way a Chick Jill should have understood the Chick mc's Chick behaviour when he looked after a sick friend. You turn a girl down in a budding relationship who has prepared a picnic for you on your birthday with hopes to give you a lovely surprise. You turn that girl down, and you don't think it's a big deal... :eek:

Yes but only if you reject all other main LI's, otherwise Jill is not a choice and she won't reject the MC, you just lose her path without any notification.
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Jericho85

Well-Known Member
Apr 25, 2022
1,504
4,979
Regarding whether we get another shot at any of the main LIs, we don't know for certain if it's truly over yet. I mean Sage suddenly became an option after 6 episodes of rejecting her, so it's hard to tell how final things are at this point. There are still hints at a solo route with at least Josy (not sure about Maya).

So maybe things can be patched up with Jill... :unsure:

The problem (and it's a good problem in my mind) is the girls don't all follow a formula. They don't feel like they have progression counters. They each have their own arbitrary criteria and potential. With Bella and Jill's routes it feels like reject once and it's over, but then Sage can handle multiple rejections and still come out on top, and then Josy is still pining for the mc after she and Maya did the rejecting.

I like that because it's unique. So many games in this genre are too obvious. And maybe that's what a lot of players prefer, a clear route and progression. But I prefer the applecart to be turned over. I like things happening that I didn't expect but are still plausible, and I like games that don't come across procedural or formulaic.

When the mc ran down to help Jill with her final date with Tybalt and profess his love for her, and she shot him down in flames, I was like, "You fucking cunt!" And I loved that turn of events. It wasn't what I wanted to happen right then and there, but I loved it for how I didn't see it coming, even though it was clear that Jill was cooling off on him (she didn't correct Derek's assertion that they "used" to date, and she told Josy there was this guy she "thought" she liked).

I enjoy this game for what it is. Twists and turns, lots of drama, hilarious nonsense, sexy girls, and well scripted dialogue. It's great escapism, and it's so much better than the rest out there. There are a few good ones emerging, so hopefully DPC gets knocked of his perch by someone even better soon, but I just don't get the difficulty people have with simply accepting the events as they pan out.

That's why the antagonist in AL didn't bother me as much as it did others who felt it came out of nowhere. It didn't come out of nowhere. The character was off from the beginning (I chalked it up to porn game behaviour at first, so I was still blindsided when it went down). And the "big decision" in that game, he could improve on the execution (had the mc struggle to save both and had him weaken due to smoke inhalation and ultimately have to make the same decision), but the outcome was very impactful. People went berserk at him because they didn't want that. Personally I lost interest in the game after that, but that was due to the mc's reaction, not the events themselves.

Mind you, if Vinny just came in and started shooting people, I'm not gonna defend that. It would be wrong for the story.

But back to Jill. No matter how anyone looks at it, how they want to logically look at the way a Chick Jill should have understood the Chick mc's Chick behaviour when he looked after a sick friend. You turn a girl down in a budding relationship who has prepared a picnic for you on your birthday with hopes to give you a lovely surprise. You turn that girl down, and you don't think it's a big deal... :eek:


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I would really love for there to be a re-entry on Jill Rejection path, but sadly I don't think that's going to happen. I kind of liked the dialogue with Masked girl on that path where he showed that he's still hung up on her. It doesn't seem all that common in VNs where the MC gets rejected by an LI, and he actually feels shitty after the breakup.

Though when Jill looks at the picture of MC at the end of EP9 then cuts it up, I think it means that's the end of the road. Notably the only two times when she doesn't cut the picture are on the main Jill branch and the angry jill branch. I think those are the only two branches where the Jill romance continues with or without the extra spice.

As far as Acting Lessons:

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roupe

Member
Jan 19, 2022
220
60
So just to confirm for Bella, Jill, Josy and Maya I need to have a Neutral/Chick affinity (from major choices) or do I need a Neutral/Chick path (from normal actions)?

And how much will kicking the jocks out of the party affect the future of the game?
 
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felicemastronzo

Devoted Member
May 17, 2020
11,170
21,832
But back to Jill. No matter how anyone looks at it, how they want to logically look at the way a Chick Jill should have understood the Chick mc's Chick behaviour when he looked after a sick friend. You turn a girl down in a budding relationship who has prepared a picnic for you on your birthday with hopes to give you a lovely surprise. You turn that girl down, and you don't think it's a big deal... :eek:
one measure of how well this storyline worked on Jill is the success of Bianca. the reaction was to want to betray her with her best friend in the hopes of getting caught. which is also a pretty fallacious project given how it went with Bella...

because the point of a storyline should be that I think, to make a character more interesting and possibly more "palatable" (given the type of game). from my point of view it failed in both

however it did make Bianca more interesting and maybe Amelia too (Lana was careful to be buried deep enough), could this be DPC's goal? :unsure: :unsure:

Yes but only if you reject all other main LI's, otherwise Jill is not a choice and she won't reject the MC, you just lose her path without any notification.
no, the only difference is that Jill, like Maya and Josy, automatically close 'Others'.
 

Roundell

Member
Sep 16, 2022
239
595
I just think Maya gets a hard brief from the guys on this forum.
Because her whole story is a cliché already seen in a thousand of movies, TV shows and even videogames. The gay oppressed by "heteropatriarchy" and conservative people. And that kind of story have a sense and a value in the 50´s when gay people was really oppressed and ridiculed, but not now. In the 2020's and IRL in western countries, is even the opposite. I'm tired of that kind of stories in media, the way Josy and her interact is corny and cheesy as hell, and she doesn't face her problems, just whines and wait that somebody (MC, Sage, Jill) solves for her. So I can't relate with Maya's problems or feel sympathy for her character just because she's gay (or bi, it doesn't matter, her problems are because she's gay), because she's a bad character with a bad story. Right now, it's the opposite. DPC has made her father such an evil character, such a perfect villain, that I'm in Maya's father's team :LOL:
 

rannmiumec

Newbie
Aug 27, 2017
28
62
So I can't relate with Maya's problems or feel sympathy for her character just because she's gay
Sure, because you need to have the same sexuality, race, gender, and everything else as someone else to have sympathy for that person, like it's not that the key of sympathy is feeling for someone else even if you don't understand and/or share their situation completely :rolleyes:

that I'm in Maya's father's team
:FacePalm:
 
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