VN Ren'Py Being a DIK [v0.10.1] [DrPinkCake]

[ProxyGist]

BAD's fans discuss theories and the game
Meanwhile, DPC:

 

[Geralt From Rivia]

Well, it's a thread cycle of life.

NTR discussions, girls with a black dudes pics trolling, waifu wars, [insert girl name]-posting, dalli conspiracy, memes, now this is a high college dissertations for dozens of pages. Badik has become a scientific discipline.
Everything goes in circles.

UPD: Forgot to add "GAME DEVELOPMENT SO LONG, DEV BAD!" brigade.

 

[Ottoeight]

that message lliterally takes up the whole page, wow. As for Being a DIK, are there more people starting to hate the increase in sandboxes late in the games. I got like 6 or 7 saves, I find myself just having to do the same over and over again with only one or two scenes different from the last save. It's extremely boring and annoying imo

Bro, it's not a big issue since you're getting an update every 10 months or so.

BAD's fans discuss theories and the game
Meanwhile, DPC:
View attachment 2732080

You're posting the wrong meme. I think you might want to post this:

View attachment main-qimg-5369be2d38953cfd039f8e2f371ba88b.webp

 

[DrSoong]

That would be a good investment of money for the Throuple.

Spoiler: Do you look

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Wait, that would actually make it a foursome, right?

Double-dick Tremolo. Chernobyl version

That reminds me of an german language song called

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(dalli_x could have heard it once ).

 

[elobomasveloz]

Just a curious question.
Why it takes too long between updates?

DPC is making the best VN. (I dont like the a gf path but i think this will change and the american pie vibes will come back)
But waiting 5-9 months per update its kinda crazy

Seriously, no hate.
Cheers

 

[dalli_x]

Except it's not my opinion. It's the fact that if DPC stated it, it is so. He says there's no canonical LI, then there is no canonical LI.




You're not even arguing why they are more important to the main story than the rest of the LI's. You're pretty much just saying they show up more.
Sure, they appear on a lot of the story, but a lot of it can be explained by them being on the same year. And, once again, their story in S1 required them to be given extra attention. S2 has them at arguably the same amount of content as the other LIs. And even a lot of those are just regular day-to-day interactions, once again, because they are friends (or more) and are in the same grade. In terms of romantic/sexual moments, they aren't really doing better than the other LI's.



I think I know what you meant to say here, so I'll just correct it for anyone who didn't. It's not built around their characters. It's built are MC's relationship with them. MC is, and will always be, what the story is built around (except for the interlude and select few moments like EP4 flashback at the start).
And in S1, I agree. A lot of time is spent on how MC feels about Josy and Maya, as well as very few interactions with Josy, and A LOT with Maya. They are clearly the most important up to that point. But afterwards their plot barely develops. If you were to cut S2 from the game and go directly into S3, their relationship would be pretty much the same. Only differences being Maya being more comfortable sexually, and them all being a bit more emotionally connected to eachother.
On the other hand, we get to see a complete different side of Sage. A much sweeter and emotional side. While S1 was all about being fuck buddies to get some sexual gratification and some form of revenge on Chad, S2 has a huge amount of emotional development for Sage as a person and Sage&MC as a 'couple'.
Jill is queen of romance content in S2. Pretty much all of her scenes are made to build and strengthen them as a couple. Which is one of the reasons why there is so little content for her if you don't follow her path. Pretty much any progression made to their relationship is made in S2, and there is also a massive moment between her and Tybalt during their 3rd 'date' that showcases a lot of emotional develpment on her part. While she felt like she had to be nice no matter what to everyone around her, she actually has someone she hates now (as proven by her interaction with Maya and Sage in EP9). She actually managed to find her voice and say "it's enough". Oh, and the recital is totally cheating. DPC needs to make more moments like those for other girls aswell. MC making something really big and important to the LI.
Isabella arguably doesn't change much either, until EP8. Then there are some really nice moments with her, and on EP9 some of my favorite content is with her. A lot of people interpret some of her interactions as being rather cold (cause she's the ice queen), but on her path she has some really sweet moments with the MC. Her story overall, though, has linear scaling, so I'm only seeing her relationship with the MC to be fully fleshed out much later in the game.
At the end of the day, all of these big moments happen even if you're not in their path. No girl is more 'canonical' than the other.
And it's not the fact that one or two show up more than the others or are more important than the others that makes them better/more suitable LI's for the MC. Heck, the fact that J&M can still be a big part of MC's life even as just friends could even be interpreted as the opposite. If everything is the same even as friends, then what's the point of choosing them as LI's? Or Sage, which albeit not as much, would be pretty the same. With that mindset then Isabella or Jill must certainly be the 'canonical' LI's. But again, they are not. None of them is... Why are we even arguing this???



"it's a reflection of author position and view" ???????????????? NO!!!!!!! It's just a perspective of MC's thoughts. You are basically saying that if the MC is pro-slavery, then so must be the author. Or vice-versa.
I'm sure you didn't mean it that way, so I'll argue what I think you meant to say... look, just because we read some character thinking he has certain feelings, doesn't mean he actually has them. I remember liking a lot of girls growing up, yet only later in life did I actually find someone I love. Yet if you asked young me, I would tell you I fell in love pretty much once a week. And can you genuinely call it love when they barely talk, except for work related stuff? And like I pointed out him mentioning having a crush on Josy, so did you in some of the lines you posted on your original post.
On another note, if the MC loves someone (not even thinks, he just actually does), then what exactly is stopping the story from developing into a point where he loses feelings, or just develops stronger feelings for someone else? Or just decides to move on because it would be too complicated? Nothing! You seem to have this idea that just because at the start of the game MC had feelings for Josy then he needs to be with her. And if that is the case, then why does he develop feelings for Maya? It's not mandatory. You can choose to have your MC not develop feelings for Maya. And that would automatically stop you from following their path.



I'll quote myself for this one "in S1, (...) A lot of time is spent on how MC feels about Josy and Maya, as well as very few interactions with Josy, and A LOT with Maya. They are clearly the most important up to that point. But afterwards their plot barely develops.". So while in S1 it's pretty much about them getting those first few big interactions out of the way, and they can have a (somewhat) normal relationship during S2, all other LI's get that build up in S2.
And while they get to have all those nice moments in S2, the other girls kind of have to wait as they were only now starting to get a deeper connection to MC.
It's not about which starts first, but about which is better at the end. Emphasis on "THE END".
And even then, that doesn't make their path any more correct than any other path. It almost feels like you have some kink about removing the agency and free will out of our experience of the story. If DPC allows us to make choices, and says there in no correct choice, then choose whatever the fuck you want.



My guy. The fucking point is about making that choice in EP4! It would be completely fucking stupid for the MC to just go: "Hey. I know you guys just had this really nice moment where you finally opened up to eachother and told the truth, and about how you still love eachother, but I actually want to date one of you... yes, you heard me right. I only want to date one of you. So even though you just got back together, I wanna break you up. Cause that's totally gonna work." and then they would go "Nah. You're stupid. We JUST got together."
Of course you should be able to make choices afterwards that influence you to be with one or the other, wether you're with them on not, but on that specific moment it would be completely fucking insane for us to have that choice.



Tf do you mean "Speculations vs facts"? I said he also says it to Jill. I even told you exactly when he says it. While it's speculative about Sage and Bella, it's no different from half the shit you did on your original post. At least I stated so, by saying "probably".
And so special he even said that about Riona, right?
It's just an expression, my dude. Chill. It's not more special than 'my girlfriend', it's just different. It's all about perspective. While you might see it that way, it's up to interpretation.
Just cause it feels like more to you doesn't mean others think the same. For all I care he could say 'my beloved' and I would still see it the same, the only thing that would change is that now I would think the MC is a bit cringe, but his feelings for the LI/LIs would be the same.



"you forgot about EP5". - I didn't, "(...)moments between the two, namely(...)" 'moments' is plural and 'namely' meant I was going to give an example. It's doesn't mean I'll give them all.
"say that feelings would probably fade." Where???
"EP9 events is about 2 months later" since when????????? EP7?????????? It's like 3 to 4 weeks from EP7 to EP9.
"and Josy's feelings are clearly at the same place" So??????????? Tf does that have to do with MC's feelings? You ultimately decide wether he moved on or not, when you make that choice in EP9. Unless there's something in the future that disproves it.
"It's 1+1, not even a 2+2 thing." That is extremely fucking condescending. And you're the one forgetting about choosing to tell Derek you don't have feelings for any of the 2 anymore.



MC is talking directly to Peter and was introduced to him by Josy as a friend of hers, not as a boyfriend. He is going there as a friend. Wether they decide to tell him the truth or not changes things A LOT.
On the other hand, MC is going to meet Jill's parents as a boyfriend. Big difference. As well as him being a nobody while she is borderline royalty.
While they are both about meeting parents, they are definitely not "similar" situations.


Why post this response? I made my case on why the RP system being used on them makes sense, while on other girls not so much. Argue that. Not this. Damn, one of the things you could easily argue as it was all based on my subjective view of the issue at hand, and you don't even argue it and instead act like I didn't get what you meant. I got it! I just argued it wasn't actually a big deal.


Jill was such a good character that he had to completely change his plans to make her fit into the story. Done. Like I said " They can (all) be viewed as positive."
If you're gonna overthink it, then make sure you at least come up with all possible reasons for it.
Just because you had an idea later than another, doesn't make the first one better, or vice-versa.


Like you point out. He might just use them later. And even if he doesn't, maybe he meant to use them at some point until he eventually decided not to. I know about that as much as you. Ask DPC.


My dude, it's a threesome!!!!!!!!!!! That is, like, the biggest fantasy for every single guy on hearth. It's the reason why pretty much every other porn game has a possibility for a harem. And DPC wants to make a rather believable game, so a harem is out of the question, but a throuple is way more concievable. But while it's a big fantasy, not everyone actually wants it as a full relationship, or to make that story for the MC.



"but compairing 1 by 1 each MG with J&M it's safe to say that J&M receive much more attention"
OF COURSE!!!!! THERE'S TWO OF THEM!!!!! They need more attention to their variables. They need more renders. They need more lines. They need more possible outcomes. At the end of the day, they need more content because players might want to do different things with, considering there's a possibility of doing it. And if we are talking about variables, then Jill is like the master of using them. You gotta make sure you get a bunch of shit right, and maybe even do a fucking backflip at the end of it, just then even HOPE to get it all right (obv. its not that hard, but she does have a lot of variables you need to hit for her to accept you at the end of EP8 if you choose her).
On the other hand, Josy requires nothing, and Maya requires almost nothing. As long as you're not DIK, they accept the throuple.
And like I said in the other post: the RP system may be used on them to set up possible diversions on their path. A lot of RP with Josy, little with Maya. You get Josy. A lot of RP with Maya, little with Josy. You get Maya. Low RP with both? You get nothing! You lose! Good day, sir! (get it?)
The point is: it's all about possible outcomes. They just need more cause they are more. And it's all exponential. 1LI has 2 options, while 2LI have even more.





?????? How tf would you even change that expression to make it seem like he complete lost feelings? You could make him seem like he didn't care, but truth of the matter is, he does. Even if he's already lost all feelings, it doesn't mean he doesn't feel shitty for making her feel that way. That specific expression can be interpreted as like a million different things. It may just mean he realized with that conversation that Josy still has feelings for him and he feels kinda shitty that he kind of had to turn her down with his response (if you choose to say you don't think about it anymore). He feels hurt that he kind of hurt her. You know, basic empathy?
It's kind of similar to his reaction to rejecting Riona after she tries to make out with him in EP9. Yet we can argue he doesn't have feelings for her, he just looked like that cause of how he had to reject her feelings.

And like I said earlier: "if he just develops stronger feelings for someone else?". Even IF he still cares about her, so what???


No, they are not. Your bias is showing harder than MC's erection under that spartan skirt.



I literally explained why they are different, and instead of tackling the reasoning you just say "naaaaahhh. What I said before, I'll say again." Read, and then come back here. They are different scenes. If they were both the same, it would ruin both. One needed to happen now, as if both did, they would just be too similar. 3 awkward encounters with 3 different girls. He handled the one now so he can handle the other later.
And as far as we've seen it, Jill had a similar reaction to what Maya had. The way Maya reacts if you break up with them and Jill reacts if you broke up with her before the party is similar. They are both trying to not show their emotions. While anyone can look at Josy and tell right away what she felt, with Maya and Jill you really have to understand their characters and why they would wanna act like everything is normal.
And the end of the EP seems to indicate that Jill might be really upset about it. Not necessarily that she is going to be angry at the MC. I don't think it'll be that, maybe more just upset. Purposefully avoid him and be extremely awkward if they are ever forced to interact.
I don't think anyone can argue one is better that the other. As long as you know the characters personalities and a good amount of empathy, you are able to understand exactly why they are both really emotional. Hell, I'd even argue that Bella's is really good too, considering her character and all she's been through, and what the MC actually meant and did to her.


It's like, the most awkward conversation ever. Even Bianca points it out. He'll probably have the same thing happening with Maya, just not with Josy.


It's just a byproduct of delaying it. And barely does anything. There's like 4 or 5 moments where he does that and most of them are when he is directly talking to them.
"You will not find any symbolism in Jill's scene". Except for the sense of foreboding, there really isn't much to J&M's either. It's like when you were a kid and got bad grades on a test and had to tell you parent about it. You know shit's about to go do, and on the moments you think about it, it does put you down, but you just gotta do it. It would've been nice to have a moment like that for Jill, Sage and Bella, but it's not like it was necessary. It's not that big of a deal.


Tf do you mean doubts himself??????? He feels shitty cause of what just happened. It's the consequences of his actions that make him feel like that. Any expression means lingering feelings to you, I guess.


I didn't.

Read before you post. I didn't. I explained to you why it was done the way it was done. Why one happend in EP9 and the other will happen in EP10. I'm talking about what happened, not what could've.


They get that 'special attention' because MC broke up with them JUST before talking to one of the other 3(2)LIs. He just did it, so it's fresh. He's feeling like shit about doing it, and because it happened just now, he decides to talk to them about it. There you fucking go with the 'details'.


Tf did you just write? Did you slam your face on the keyboard and autocorrect did the rest? Stop talking about canonical endings! You've already been told that makes no fucking sense, even in AL. Most you should be arguing is wether J&M are supposed to be the most optimal branch for the best story.

"Who has the best chances, who has more potential endings, where the endings can be really good in terms of the future fate of MC and relationships."
- Jill. It's part of the reason some people don't like her. Except for Tybalt, and a possible bad reaction from Jill's parents, it's pretty much drama free. It's clearly the relationship with the best chances of success. But that doesn't necessarily make the best story. It may. It may not. What matters is our individual perception of it.


Agreed. Fuck those people. Criticizing with no solid basis for it whatsoever. But you aren't completely faultless either. You going to these lenghts to support this deranged theory about J&M clearly shows it.


Not gonna read this one either. Even if it's short. My point still stands. Why wonder about the ending when we're only halfway through. IT'S A DPC GAME.


I have almost 400h JUST going through the story in a normal pace. Going through every single line of dialogue without any skips, even if I've gone through them before. Like re-reading a book. You don't just gloss over some words cause you've read them before. If we also count the time I've spent fucking around the game, it's probably closer to 550h, and that's without the almost 50h i spent on the PP minigame to make sure I got a 7.75x multiplier on every save.
But this isn't a dick measuring content anyway (says the guy who just announced his sizes).

"I like their path/branch a lot, but it doesn't mean that I play only J&M or even I do it more often than other routes." - to be honest, it doesn't show.


While you do know about the game, you do need to get better at interpreting it. Instead of looking so much into the future, kind of like you did on your (5) in your original post, and trying to interpret the excel spreadsheet you created as a possible means of figuring out what will happen moving forth, focus more on trying to look at the things you already know from different perspectives. The good and the bad. Even points you know you disagree with, try to see why others might think differently. If you focus on seeing what you already did from a different angle, you will learn about it and appreciate it all the more. I constantly stop to think about it throughout the day. Even at work. I just wonder what things actually mean. All possibilities that come to mind. Good or bad. And hope for the good.

I wrote a long time ago to make it appear that DPC wants us players to get involved with an LI as early as possible and in all its consequence. The best example is Jill. If the player is not consistent enough, Jill will reject the MC at the end of EP8.

What Kpyna means by JM canonical path is so that the JM relationship with MC is canonical in the sense of friendship. I assume so that DPC sees RPs differently than other game developers. Why?

RP = relationship points
Guys, it's not romance points. A friendship is also a relationship that needs to be nurtured and I figure so DPC sees RPs as such. I only play JM in the romantic sense but still collect RPs with Jill, Sage and Bella. But in game one thing has become clear. My MC has built a great friendship with Jill, Sage and Bella. So what can the MC say to Sage in EP1? So that he has no friends yet. The name Sage is also translated into German as wisdom.

In principle, each LI is canonical and also not canonical. It only depends on whether the MC (player) follows his chosen LI consistently or not.

DPC clearly wrote so that he established several side stories around the main story to more or less obscure the main story. JM, Jill, Sage, etc. are side stories that are connected to the main story. These side stories will lead the MC to the main story at the end, just in different ways. The main story is for the MC to find his family. By that I don't even mean Lynette's parents, but his place in life. Will the MC be like Rusty who puts the DIK families first, does the MC see his family in the chosen LI and/or Lynette's relatives?

 

[Takkatakka]

Just a curious question.
Why it takes too long between updates?

DPC is making the best VN. (I dont like the a gf path but i think this will change and the american pie vibes will come back)
But waiting 5-9 months per update its kinda crazy

Seriously, no hate.
Cheers

Seems like 5-6 months is a normal interval for a high quality single developer VN for larger updates. Eternum is in scope much smaller game and the last update was from February with the next being projected for late July or early August. For PC the two developers spit the next update in half to be able to have an earlier release with the first half and those are actually two guys working on it and not one.

DPC has a very high production quality, I mean in what other VN do you have a scene like you had during the contest in Ep. 9 with what...50 or so characters on screen? All in unique costumes, most of them have a name and at least some form of characterization as in "the player kinda knows them", with around...20 or so being very fleshed out characters...yeah, he takes his sweet time, but he also delivers the quality in my opinion. Sure, 9 months really is a stretch but there is no real way to make larger updates in less than half a year I think.

 

[sauber_man]

Just a curious question.
Why it takes too long between updates?

DPC is making the best VN. (I dont like the a gf path but i think this will change and the american pie vibes will come back)
But waiting 5-9 months per update its kinda crazy

Seriously, no hate.
Cheers

Updates are absolutely massive, way bigger than those of almost every VN in existence and almost reaching 5000 renders per episode now, the amount of paths and scenarios DPC has to consider and develop are also getting more and more complicated so the time required to write scripts and set-up scenes to keep them consistent increased.

In short, DPC wants to deliver the best quality episodes possible and that ofc takes time.

 

[Wizard_Shiryuu]

BAD's fans discuss theories and the game
Meanwhile, DPC:
View attachment 2732080

No fires

 

[sampow]

You're not even arguing why they are more important to the main story than the rest of the LI's. You're pretty much just saying they show up more.
Sure, they appear on a lot of the story, but a lot of it can be explained by them being on the same year. And, once again, their story in S1 required them to be given extra attention. S2 has them at arguably the same amount of content as the other LIs. And even a lot of those are just regular day-to-day interactions, once again, because they are friends (or more) and are in the same grade. In terms of romantic/sexual moments, they aren't really doing better than the other LI's.

Regarding content, here's a breakdown of the number of speaking (and thinking) lines the main characters have:

• Maya: 3169
• Josy: 2817
• Jill: 2722
• Sage: 2561
• Bella: 2454
• Derek: 2390
• Quinn: 1854
• Zoey: 967

Maya dominates (at roughly a quarter of the entire dialogue for the main LIs), and Maya and Josy both sit at the top of the list. Obviously the mc spent a lot of time with Maya in her dorm, so that boosts her dialogue count, and Josy and the mc have a little bit of history, so that gives her an advantage too. But I don't think that makes them canon in the slightest.

Most people can't separate their emotions from what is objectively the truth. Quinn is canon!

Last but not least: it's kinda weird how people here criticize Jill so much. She is personally not my favorite LI (it's Josy), but she does have my favorite path/branch. Also, considering how she is favoured on Reddit, Steam and Patreon, why is it so different here? My guess it's cause it's less about sex and more about romance with her. Even her sex scenes are fewer in number than the other LI's, as well as being more 'vanilla'. Sage, on the other hand, seems to be a favorite here, and has tons of sexual content. Considering f95 is a site specifically about that kind of content, I guess that could explain the difference. That is all I had to say for this topic. Nothing of real substance, just some food for thought.

People pick on Jill mostly because it's very funny, but there are other reasons:

• She has a shocking smile,
• She's naïve to the point of bordering on retarded,
• She publicly dumped the mc,
• She showed up to the Halloween party in a banana suit,
• She always thinks she knows best, even though we've stablished she's retarded,
• She just sits there and cries like a moron when the mc dumps her (not like Josy whose heart we saw breaking); and
• Did I mention she has a shocking smile?

I enjoy all the characters in the game, there is such an array of unique people. Some characters interest me less than others, and while Jill isn't my favourite at all, I still play her route and enjoy it for what it is. That doesn't mean I don't like hanging shit on her from time-to-time.

 

[Lostanddamned]

Regarding content, here's a breakdown of the number of speaking (and thinking) lines the main characters have:

• Maya: 3169
• Josy: 2817
• Jill: 2722
• Sage: 2561
• Bella: 2454
• Derek: 2390
• Quinn: 1854
• Zoey: 967

Maya dominates (at roughly a quarter of the entire dialogue for the main LIs), and Maya and Josy both sit at the top of the list. Obviously the mc spent a lot of time with Maya in her dorm, so that boosts her dialogue count, and Josy and the mc have a little bit of history, so that gives her an advantage too. But I don't think that makes them canon in the slightest.

Most people can't separate their emotions from what is objectively the truth. Quinn is canon!


People pick on Jill mostly because it's very funny, but there are other reasons:

• She has a shocking smile,
• She's naïve to the point of bordering on retarded,
• She publicly dumped the mc,
• She showed up to the Halloween party in a banana suit,
• She always thinks she knows best, even though we've stablished she's retarded,
• She just sits there and cries like a moron when the mc dumps her (not like Josy whose heart we saw breaking); and
• Did I mention she has a shocking smile?

I enjoy all the characters in the game, there is such an array of unique people. Some characters interest me less than others, and while Jill isn't my favourite at all, I still play her route and enjoy it for what it is. That doesn't mean I don't like hanging shit on her from time-to-time.

You missed the part when Jill catches Bella and MC fucking on Bella’s kitchen table being the best scene in the game.

 

[Mr. Muscles]

Mfs are having a UN meeting in here. Cringe.

 

[Dark Silence]

Mfs are having a UN meeting in here. Cringe.

*Security approaches you and holds up his hand* "Sir, I'm going to have to ask you to leave the premises. This is a closed UN council meeting."

 

[Jumbi]

Regarding content, here's a breakdown of the number of speaking (and thinking) lines the main characters have:

• Maya: 3169
• Josy: 2817
• Jill: 2722
• Sage: 2561
• Bella: 2454
• Derek: 2390
• Quinn: 1854
• Zoey: 967

[...]

I'm baffled, dude. How did you go to get those numbers?

 

[Lostanddamned]

Mfs are having a UN meeting in here. Cringe.

Are you channeling your inner Johnny Sack?

 

[The Glorious LIME]

~The thread atm~
​

 

[Geralt From Rivia]

Mfs are having a UN meeting in here. Cringe.

You mean this discussions at same level useless and pointless?

 

[JJ1960]

You mean this discussions at same level useless and pointless?

And the only results are producing long, strongly-worded epistles that don't actually change anything.

 

[DrSoong]

I'm baffled, dude. How did you go to get those numbers?

I assume some N++ <Ctrl>+<Shift>+<F> magic.

 

[Geralt From Rivia]

And the only results are producing long, strongly-worded epistles that don't actually change anything.

I am deeply concerned that Maya leads the way in speaking lines. There are much more interesting characters that deserve it.
And what's worse, she's infiltrated into other characters' storylines. Sage, now Jill. Only Bella remained of the MGs uninfected. "Plot frame", nothing to be done here.