VN Ren'Py Being a DIK [v0.10.1] [DrPinkCake]

[Karl Franz 77]

Let's see, the Americans call him M.Bison while the Japanese calls him Vega?

Worst, this one.

 

[felicemastronzo]

I generally agree, but one of the problems with the M&J triangle is that there are concerns both from an in-game and out of game perspective.

From the out of game perspective, we know that BaDIK isn't supposed to have NTR content, and thus it is highly unlikely that Maya or Josy are going to run off and cheat on the MC in the future. So it seems like we are intended to believe the trio when they imply that the reason for the cheating is that the each of them did feel something special for the other two. Granted, it could be that DPC intends to illustrate why three-way relationships are doomed to fail and thus the cheating is a deliberate fatal flaw. But I'm going to assume that is not the case, because at that point he would be practically trolling us.

If we assume that this is an honest attempt at a three-way relationship, then the cheating probably wasn't a result of lax morals, raging libidos, or even the inexperience of youth. It was a result of the trio being faced with an unusually complex situation at a time when Maya and Josy's existing relationship was already under severe stress. Now it's certainly fair to say that's a ridiculously convenient plot contrivance, but at the end of the day this is a porn game so some of that does come with the territory. I don't think this would be the most outlandish thing we've had to accept thus far.

But this does feed into the in-game issue: if this is what the game is aiming for, does the portrayal of the characters fit with that goal? This is, IMHO, where the game has been coming up short a little too often.

It's certainly not all bad. I find the characterization of both Maya and Josy credible and sympathetic. Both clearly feel an emotional connection to the MC. They both come to rely on that connection to help them through difficult times, but they are both extremely uncomfortable with that fact. Josy is the more honest about it (openly admitting it would be cheating while likewise admitting she does want something to happen). Maya refuses to admit her situation to the MC even after she decides to act on her feelings for him, but given how badly it went the last time she revealed her secret, I can understand why she lied.

So while the characters are flawed, I can believe their mistakes were 'honest' ones that could be corrected. Certainly I find their behavior preferable to Sage's, who will openly solicit the MC all while insisting it's just for physical pleasure and she's really loyal to Chad (for a hopefully decent reason). Maya and Josy may have been unfaithful to each other, but I can see how confronting the consequences of their actions could teach them the error of their ways and genuinely make them better people as a result.

Unfortunately, that's where the game tends to drop the ball. Forgiveness must be earned, and the first step in that process is to accept the harm that one's mistakes have caused. The trio have consistently bungled that step. Just about everyone has one or more issues with the resolution to the crisis in Episode 4, and they nearly always come down to the fact that the trio downplay their mistakes and agree to move on (as friends or quasi-lovers) way too quickly. So right off the bat we're in trouble.

Episode 5 further compounds the problem. It makes a big deal out of the MC having sex with one of the girls (and only one) before the trio establish what sort of relationship this will be, only to have the MC ditch both of them so he can continue to pursue Jill and Bella (even if he is not interested in either sexually). While the scenes themselves are good, this feels like the characters are repeating old mistakes, not learning from them. Eventually, the trio will agree to an open relationship at the picnic, but even that can feel less like the result of sincere introspection and more like Maya indulging the MC's concerns about being tied down.

To make matters worse, on the friendship route both Maya and Josy will tearfully admit their ongoing love for the MC - to the point of calling their commitment to each other into question. This is doubly problematic.

First, because each girl will blame uncertainty of how the other would feel about including the MC, it demonstrates that the two girls still aren't capable of properly communicating with each other. While it's not necessarily fair to compare the mindset of the girls in one route directly to the mindset of the girls in another route, comparison is inevitable for the player on some level. And the fact of the matter is that the game does nothing to illustrate directly why they would be less immature in the poly route than they apparently are in the friendship route.

Second, both Maya and Josy will insist on their deep love each other if and only if the MC is on the friendship route - which is when we see first hand they still aren't able to be honest with each other. Thus the player is left with the uncomfortable impression that they view the poly relationship with the MC as LESS CERTAIN than their own, extremely unhealthy relationship. I don't think this was the intent, but it still comes across that way.

That said, there is reason for hope. The picnic scene may have been late in coming, but it is a much needed step in the right direction. Likewise the fact that both Maya and Josy will express concern about how having sex with the MC might have affected the other (and the option to have the MC echo that concern) is a good sign. And even the fact that the MC told Derek the truth is a small indication that he is trying to take this relationship seriously (even if it's not as serious as I would like).

Still, these are minor steps that will only matter if they are reinforced and expanded upon in the future. For now, we're still very reliant on blind faith to trust that the trio won't keep repeating the same mistakes all over again. I'm willing to do so because I like the characters and I chalk most of the problems up to bad writing, but I can't blame anyone for refusing to trust the girls when this is how their commitment is portrayed.

EDIT:
tl;dr - The game may or may not intend for the M&J triangle to be viable, and the way the characters have been portrayed could go either way. I prefer to think it can be made to work, but I understand why people might think otherwise.

reading it all seems to me the right tribute to you who wrote it

I agree with much of what you wrote, especially as dynamics of what happened and what will happen at the narrative center of the story, the triangle

but about two points I disagree:

1) in "only friendship" route MC can choose who to get stabbed by: by Josy who confessed to him that she believes they would be happy together, a very heavy confession for someone who has just been rejected, or by Maya, who in her speech on the female side takes even more distances from MC, what hope does he have compared to Josy?
personally Josy's one hurt me more


2) the picnic scene makes it even clearer how the situation between them is momentary, or at least still very fluid. MC, in yet another attempted suicide, is ready to lose his adventures with other girls, so as not to put anything at risk, and is told to go ahead anyway, not to regret it later ...
MC, of the three, is the only one who has other sentimental interests, so this freedom is only valid for him .. IT'S A TRAP !!!!



on our three protagonists (they are) there are two big problems: Quinn and Maya's father that at any moment could blow the balance (for MC the situation could only improve, cynically said)

 

[Darkdevil66]

on our three protagonists (they are) there are two big problems: Quinn and Maya's father that at any moment could blow the balance (for MC the situation could only improve, cynically said)

Two big problems ? Don't you forget something ?


You fucked my SISTER ???

 

[felicemastronzo]

Two big problems ? Don't you forget something ?


You fucked my SISTER ???
View attachment 710681

he seems like a secondary problem now that MC has become a full-fledged DIK, while those other 2 can really change the balance a lot

 

[Karl Franz 77]

Two big problems ? Don't you forget something ?


You fucked my SISTER ???
View attachment 710681

He wouldn't dare to make a move agaisnt the MC after the fight with Caleb.

 

[Deleted member 205327]

He wouldn't dare to make a move agaisnt the MC after the fight with Caleb.

Not everyone fights Caleb, especially if you're on a route that requires you NOT to be a DIK.

 

[Alfagrem]

I generally agree, but one of the problems with the M&J triangle is that there are concerns both from an in-game and out of game perspective.

From the out of game perspective, we know that BaDIK isn't supposed to have NTR content, and thus it is highly unlikely that Maya or Josy are going to run off and cheat on the MC in the future. So it seems like we are intended to believe the trio when they imply that the reason for the cheating is that the each of them did feel something special for the other two. Granted, it could be that DPC intends to illustrate why three-way relationships are doomed to fail and thus the cheating is a deliberate fatal flaw. But I'm going to assume that is not the case, because at that point he would be practically trolling us.

If we assume that this is an honest attempt at a three-way relationship, then the cheating probably wasn't a result of lax morals, raging libidos, or even the inexperience of youth. It was a result of the trio being faced with an unusually complex situation at a time when Maya and Josy's existing relationship was already under severe stress. Now it's certainly fair to say that's a ridiculously convenient plot contrivance, but at the end of the day this is a porn game so some of that does come with the territory. I don't think this would be the most outlandish thing we've had to accept thus far.

But this does feed into the in-game issue: if this is what the game is aiming for, does the portrayal of the characters fit with that goal? This is, IMHO, where the game has been coming up short a little too often.

It's certainly not all bad. I find the characterization of both Maya and Josy credible and sympathetic. Both clearly feel an emotional connection to the MC. They both come to rely on that connection to help them through difficult times, but they are both extremely uncomfortable with that fact. Josy is the more honest about it (openly admitting it would be cheating while likewise admitting she does want something to happen). Maya refuses to admit her situation to the MC even after she decides to act on her feelings for him, but given how badly it went the last time she revealed her secret, I can understand why she lied.

So while the characters are flawed, I can believe their mistakes were 'honest' ones that could be corrected. Certainly I find their behavior preferable to Sage's, who will openly solicit the MC all while insisting it's just for physical pleasure and she's really loyal to Chad (for a hopefully decent reason). Maya and Josy may have been unfaithful to each other, but I can see how confronting the consequences of their actions could teach them the error of their ways and genuinely make them better people as a result.

Unfortunately, that's where the game tends to drop the ball. Forgiveness must be earned, and the first step in that process is to accept the harm that one's mistakes have caused. The trio have consistently bungled that step. Just about everyone has one or more issues with the resolution to the crisis in Episode 4, and they nearly always come down to the fact that the trio downplay their mistakes and agree to move on (as friends or quasi-lovers) way too quickly. So right off the bat we're in trouble.

Episode 5 further compounds the problem. It makes a big deal out of the MC having sex with one of the girls (and only one) before the trio establish what sort of relationship this will be, only to have the MC ditch both of them so he can continue to pursue Jill and Bella (even if he is not interested in either sexually). While the scenes themselves are good, this feels like the characters are repeating old mistakes, not learning from them. Eventually, the trio will agree to an open relationship at the picnic, but even that can feel less like the result of sincere introspection and more like Maya indulging the MC's concerns about being tied down.

To make matters worse, on the friendship route both Maya and Josy will tearfully admit their ongoing love for the MC - to the point of calling their commitment to each other into question. This is doubly problematic.

First, because each girl will blame uncertainty of how the other would feel about including the MC, it demonstrates that the two girls still aren't capable of properly communicating with each other. While it's not necessarily fair to compare the mindset of the girls in one route directly to the mindset of the girls in another route, comparison is inevitable for the player on some level. And the fact of the matter is that the game does nothing to illustrate directly why they would be less immature in the poly route than they apparently are in the friendship route.

Second, both Maya and Josy will insist on their deep love each other if and only if the MC is on the friendship route - which is when we see first hand they still aren't able to be honest with each other. Thus the player is left with the uncomfortable impression that they view the poly relationship with the MC as LESS CERTAIN than their own, extremely unhealthy relationship. I don't think this was the intent, but it still comes across that way.

That said, there is reason for hope. The picnic scene may have been late in coming, but it is a much needed step in the right direction. Likewise the fact that both Maya and Josy will express concern about how having sex with the MC might have affected the other (and the option to have the MC echo that concern) is a good sign. And even the fact that the MC told Derek the truth is a small indication that he is trying to take this relationship seriously (even if it's not as serious as I would like).

Still, these are minor steps that will only matter if they are reinforced and expanded upon in the future. For now, we're still very reliant on blind faith to trust that the trio won't keep repeating the same mistakes all over again. I'm willing to do so because I like the characters and I chalk most of the problems up to bad writing, but I can't blame anyone for refusing to trust the girls when this is how their commitment is portrayed.

EDIT:
tl;dr - The game may or may not intend for the M&J triangle to be viable, and the way the characters have been portrayed could go either way. I prefer to think it can be made to work, but I understand why people might think otherwise.

reading it all seems to me the right tribute to you who wrote it

I agree with much of what you wrote, especially as dynamics of what happened and what will happen at the narrative center of the story, the triangle

but about two points I disagree:

1) in "only friendship" route MC can choose who to get stabbed by: by Josy who confessed to him that she believes they would be happy together, a very heavy confession for someone who has just been rejected, or by Maya, who in her speech on the female side takes even more distances from MC, what hope does he have compared to Josy?
personally Josy's one hurt me more


2) the picnic scene makes it even clearer how the situation between them is momentary, or at least still very fluid. MC, in yet another attempted suicide, is ready to lose his adventures with other girls, so as not to put anything at risk, and is told to go ahead anyway, not to regret it later ...
MC, of the three, is the only one who has other sentimental interests, so this freedom is only valid for him .. IT'S A TRAP !!!!



on our three protagonists (they are) there are two big problems: Quinn and Maya's father that at any moment could blow the balance (for MC the situation could only improve, cynically said)

My ingame problem with the relationship is pretty much down to the choices I made when I'm forced to make the choice in the DIK library.

On the one hand there is a girl who I've known for 2 months, been on 2 dates with (one ending in jiggy times) and have been constantly phoning and texting.

On the other I've a classmate who I've known for less then a week, who was forced by her Brother/my maggot brother to let me stay in her room and who's only real, non-platonic moment was forced on her and resulted in me being knocked out and abducted.

Im my M&J run through save - I'm squaring this in my own mind by telling myself that I was forced to accept M in order to not lose J.......but ofc it's being written like both are real and valuable relationships to the MC when that's not the path I've gone.

 

[Holy Bacchus]

My ingame problem with the relationship is pretty much down to the choices I made when I'm forced to make the choice in the DIK library.

On the one hand there is a girl who I've known for 2 months, been on 2 dates with (one ending in jiggy times) and have been constantly phoning and texting.

On the other I've a classmate who I've known for less then a week, who was forced by her Brother/my maggot brother to let me stay in her room and who's only real, non-platonic moment was forced on her and resulted in me being knocked out and abducted.

Im my M&J run through save - I'm squaring this in my own mind by telling myself that I was forced to accept M in order to not lose J.......but ofc it's being written like both are real and valuable relationships to the MC when that's not the path I've gone.

The forced nature of relationships in this game certainly seems to be something of a negative, and it's not just contained to M&J. Giving people forced moments, forced feelings, etc, negates not only the choices themselves but also the feeling of choice for the player if they generally avoided a character yet get forced into scenes that you would think they shouldn't be in given their relationship status with that character, i.e. staying with Bella in ep 5 even if the player has a bad relationship with her.

If you're going to do that kind of thing in your game, then you either don't have such choices or simply make the choices less impactful to the relationships since it's obvious that the overall narrative requires that these characters remain part of the game in some way or another. It's that illusion of choice, making people think that avoiding a certain character means they can get rid of them from the story, that is proving problematic for some people.

 

[Karl Franz 77]

Not everyone fights Caleb, especially if you're on a route that requires you NOT to be a DIK.

I always fight the Jocks, no matter the route.

 

[Tserriednich'sNen]

Tommy wouldn't dare fight MC after seeing him fight and beat Caleb. He'd have to be really doped up to even attempt it.

 

[Alfagrem]

Tommy wouldn't dare fight MC after seeing him fight and beat Caleb. He'd have to be really doped up to even attempt it.

You beat the giant?

I got a couple of good licks in but then got knocked on my ass after a cutway to one of my brothers taking a cheap shot from one of the jocks.

 

[Karl Franz 77]

You beat the giant?

I got a couple of good licks in but then got knocked on my ass after a cutway to one of my brothers taking a cheap shot from one of the jocks.

I did too, what are your brawler stats?

 

[Tserriednich'sNen]

You beat the giant?

I got a couple of good licks in but then got knocked on my ass after a cutway to one of my brothers taking a cheap shot from one of the jocks.

It's easier to beat him if you have mini-games enabled.

 

[Alfagrem]

The forced nature of relationships in this game certainly seems to be something of a negative, and it's not just contained to M&J. Giving people forced moments, forced feelings, etc, negates not only the choices themselves but also the feeling of choice for the player if they generally avoided a character yet get forced into scenes that you would think they shouldn't be in given their relationship status with that character, i.e. staying with Bella in ep 5 even if the player has a bad relationship with her.

If you're going to do that kind of thing in your game, then you either don't have such choices or simply make the choices less impactful to the relationships since it's obvious that the overall narrative requires that these characters remain part of the game in some way or another. It's that illusion of choice, making people think that avoiding a certain character means they can get rid of them from the story, that is proving problematic for some people.

It's a visual novel so a degree of being forced into situations is given and I think it does a very good job in allowing you to 'eliminate' girls/paths based on wheter you've performed a certain action (guitar lessons/Quinns offer).

My only niggle in this fine game (I've joined the legion of Patreons) is that when 'forced' into Maya scenes, I was never 'forced' into crossing any kind of relationship threshold with her that justifies me wanting to be with her at a later point.

 

[Gh0st_Harambe]

Tommy wouldn't dare fight MC after seeing him fight and beat Caleb. He'd have to be really doped up to even attempt it.

The MC didnt beat Caleb, Anthony separated them, and also Caleb was still standing after the last hit of the MC

 

[Tserriednich'sNen]

The MC didnt beat Caleb, Anthony separated them

I'm talking about winning the mini-game fight against him and the 2 different code variables for winning the fight against him and losing...

 

[Karl Franz 77]

The MC didnt beat Caleb, Anthony separated them, and also Caleb was still standing after the last hit of the MC

It's not about beating him, it's about the fight. Tremolo is the "alpha male" of the diks.

 

[rojvol56]

Guys, I don't really feel like reading 72 000 comments here but I have two questions. After I'm done with my playthrough I'd love to unlock all renders and scenes via some kind of a cheat or save file but that one scrappy cheat engine or whatever has mixed reviews and several people say it doesn't work in the comments - so I wanted to ask if there is a way. The second question is whether people post here the Patreon only content like special renders etc. Sry if asking for that is against the rules or something just wish I could see them without paying $75. So if anyone could link me to a post, comment or his secret folder I'd be most grateful. Thanks! Loving the game so far (chapter 4 atm) best VN I've ever played.

 

[Holy Bacchus]

Guys, I don't really feel like reading 72 000 comments here but I have two questions. After I'm done with my playthrough I'd love to unlock all renders and scenes via some kind of a cheat or save file but that one scrappy cheat engine or whatever has mixed reviews and several people say it doesn't work in the comments - so I wanted to ask if there is a way. The second question is whether people post here the Patreon only content like special renders etc. Sry if asking for that is against the rules or something just wish I could see them without paying $75. So if anyone could link me to a post, comment or his secret folder I'd be most grateful. Thanks! Loving the game so far (chapter 4 atm) best VN I've ever played.

The scrappy mod works just fine to unlock all missing renders and scenes, not sure why some people might have a problem.

As for those high-tier Patreon renders, nobody posts them here. Not sure if we have anyone here who's on that $75 tier, but if there is I think it's a bit risky for them to post them in case DPC sees it as they might be able to figure out which of their patrons it is and they could end up getting blocked by DPC.

 

[Dashxp4k]

I'm trying find a resemblance