VN Ren'Py Being a DIK [v0.10.1] [DrPinkCake]

[TrainHardnett]

You're misunderstanding. Alternate path yes, not timeline. Also, that alternate path leads to the exact same place as every other path. So it's filler for one particular path. End result is the same as a very specific story is being told, we only have slight control as to how we end up at the same point. Illusion of choice

This is what I mean as canon. There is a canon story. That's not debateable. You will go on a date with Josy. You will move into Maya's dorm. You will be beaten up by Chad and stay with Jill. That cannot be changed. Canon. Anything else inbetween is how we get there. That's a path. So yes, end of the game, you may end up with Sage, I may end up Josy...but there is a still a set sequence of events that will happen throughout the story regardless of anything else.

That is just wrong. I will give you an example with Fate/Stay Night where there are common story elements that happen no matter which route you take you just get there in a different way with slight variations. Each experience of the same story is different yet the same and everything is canon, even the dead ends. That game has over 70 endings and every single one of them is canon. Just because something happened in 1 route and doesn't in the others doesn't make it non-canon, it just means it happened in an parallel version of the same events with different choices. This way you account for choice and what some people might do but others do not. You cannot cherry pick what is canon and what isn't just because you might not like some of the choices on a personal level. Also just because you do not see an event happen in the other choices, doesn't mean it will not come up later in the story, you would just have less context. Visual Novels do this all the time, you can get the complete picture if you do all the routes with all the context.

 

[Maviarab]

It could have significance on the Sage route. It could have long term relevance on the Sage storyline. The routes have to diverge at some point.

It also could become a common plot element, just because the girls don’t see the MC if you’re on other routes doesn’t mean their actions won’t still happen. The girls clearly want to tell Chad and break them up. The scene where they see MC/Sage talking implies they’ve spoken about MC before. They’ve some vested interest in the Sage/Chad relationship and their entire motivation isn’t born of just seeing them together in that moment.

Theres more than one way to skin a cat. If DPC does want to make Mel/Sarah breaking Chad and Sage up a “canon” plot point shared across routes he can. Just because that is a scene isolated to Sages route doesn’t automatically make it irrelevant. The game makes a big deal about Bella letting you call her Bella... being able to call her Bella wasn’t part of the common “canon” before Ep5 because it only happened on her route. Come Ep5 the game finds another way and has Bella like you because you helped with Cathy.

Sage herself is brought back into the fold regardless of being fuck buddies. We obviously shouldn’t assume stuff seen on one routes is also true on other routes but to dismiss it entirely is also unfair because DPC has shown he will homogenise routes. There’s just no way of knowing what will and won’t stay on routes.

Exactly Mindern, I said this before also (you may have missed it) that it's possible that if not on the Sage route, you'll find out that Mel/Sarah still made the call to Chad and just lied to him, thus leading us (in the story) to the same point where Chad believes (rightly or wrongly) we're the reason the break up.

Branching paths are all well and good, but the more you add (keeping them completely seperate from any other path) it very quickly doubles, quadruples etc the work and thus makes times between updates exponentially even longer. I'm all for that but I can image many people would get annoyed at the wait time. Far easier (as many AAA game devs do...Mass Effect series being a classic example) to have these little snippets, but in other paths they still happened (albeit perhaps in a slightly different way) so as the overall story still flows in one direction and takes you to the same place.

 

[AvatarStormBringer]

you'll find out that Mel/Sarah still made the call to Chad and just lied to him, thus leading us (in the story) to the same point where Chad believes (rightly or wrongly) we're the reason the break up.

One problem here, as much as I believe that will happen for those who did not go Sage route, it hasn't happen. The way you said it is like it has already happened in Episode 5.

Branching paths are all well and good, but the more you add (keeping them completely seperate from any other path) it very quickly doubles, quadruples etc the work and thus makes times between updates exponentially even longer. I'm all for that but I can image many people would get annoyed at the wait time. Far easier (as many AAA game devs do...Mass Effect series being a classic example) to have these little snippets, but in other paths they still happened (albeit perhaps in a slightly different way) so as the overall story still flows in one direction and takes you to the same place.

Maybe this is why DPC sealed your fate in chapter 6 of AL, so that he can end the story in peace with what's already available and not provide more variables to even more endings.

 

[felicemastronzo]

Exactly Mindern, I said this before also (you may have missed it) that it's possible that if not on the Sage route, you'll find out that Mel/Sarah still made the call to Chad and just lied to him, thus leading us (in the story) to the same point where Chad believes (rightly or wrongly) we're the reason the break up.

Branching paths are all well and good, but the more you add (keeping them completely seperate from any other path) it very quickly doubles, quadruples etc the work and thus makes times between updates exponentially even longer. I'm all for that but I can image many people would get annoyed at the wait time. Far easier (as many AAA game devs do...Mass Effect series being a classic example) to have these little snippets, but in other paths they still happened (albeit perhaps in a slightly different way) so as the overall story still flows in one direction and takes you to the same place.

a game based on choices must have this complexity, at least sometimes.

otherwise everything becomes like the last chapter: where if you did everything, you have a picnic with Maya and Josy, talk to Sage in the garden (one of the best scenes of the game) and then you deal with the problems of the DIK.

while if you have been "bad" in the whole chapter you speak only with the DIKs ...

 

[Holy Bacchus]

So, as far as this "canon" stuff is concerned, there is technically a canon series of events that happen regardless of player choice, and whilst all the moments and events based on player choices are canon in the sense that DPC made them and they're part of the story, they form part of each player's own individual canon story where they play out these events in their own way.

Take Sage, for example. The canon moments with her are as such:

• Meeting her in the cafeteria
• Meeting her the next day
• Getting the guitar back from her
• Seeing her at the DIK party
• Spying on Chad for her and then meeting her in her dorm room
• Sparring training with her
• Chatting with her in the Prep mansion

These all happen regardless of whether people choose to pursue Sage or not, therefore players who choose to give Sage guitar lessons and progress to FWB with her get a certain series of events which then become their canon version of the story.

However, whilst this game does have canon events which happen for everyone regardless of the path they're on, we can't really say that there is a definitive canon version here because the story is going to be whatever the player chooses to make it. Even Quinn's drug business will surely enter the MC's sphere at some point and there will likely be choices to be made that will affect her and it, thus affecting its trajectory, so it too will not have any kind of fixed "canon" path.

 

[always86]

I'm not saying that John Boy may have used "community stuff" as a euphemism, but that that's what Elena told him and he just accepts it. Elena would be the one using it as a euphemism because she knows about it.

I think the Third years don’t know about the hooking. If I had to guess I’d say Sage and Arieth have no idea about either the drugs or the prostitution. Heather and Elena clearly know about the drugs, but one of the conversations between Heather and Quinn (at the pool) strongly suggests she doesn’t know about the hooking.

I think the hooking was Quinn‘s idea and she got her Other ‘Daughters’ involved, with Sarah, Riona and Melanie. (I think those 3 are second years).

On another note the question of when Sage, Jill, Heather and Elena graduate. I think they are in their final year. The language in game about this does imply ‘the end of next year’ but I think that means the end of this school year so ‘the end of this next school year’. Or they mean next year as in the calendar year will tick over in a few months. I don’t think it’s very clear if the school is a 3 of 4 year one. And it would also be odd for Sage to be handing off the presidency to Quinn when she essentially has 2 full years left in the job.

 

[felicemastronzo]

So, as far as this "canon" stuff is concerned, there is technically a canon series of events that happen regardless of player choice, and whilst all the moments and events based on player choices are canon in the sense that DPC made them and they're part of the story, they form part of each player's own individual canon story where they play out these events in their own way.

Take Sage, for example. The canon moments with her are as such:

• Meeting her in the cafeteria
• Meeting her the next day
• Getting the guitar back from her
• Seeing her at the DIK party
• Spying on Chad for her and then meeting her in her dorm room
• Sparring training with her
• Chatting with her in the Prep mansion

These all happen regardless of whether people choose to pursue Sage or not, therefore players who choose to give Sage guitar lessons and progress to FWB with her get a certain series of events which then become their canon version of the story.

However, whilst this game does have canon events which happen for everyone regardless of the path they're on, we can't really say that there is a definitive canon version here because the story is going to be whatever the player chooses to make it. Even Quinn's drug business will surely enter the MC's sphere at some point and there will likely be choices to be made that will affect her and it, thus affecting its trajectory, so it too will not have any kind of fixed "canon" path.

are you sure about the last point?

if you are in the pact with Mata and Josy I don't think you will stop with Sage

 

[J1215]

Status update on July 25th ? Any info how many percent the game is done?
Thanks!

Status update:
https://f95zone.to/threads/being-a-dik-v0-5-2-dr-pinkcake.25332/page-3803#post-3881197

 

[Holy Bacchus]

are you sure about the last point?

if you are in the pact with Maya and Josy I don't think you will stop with Sage

Not sure what you mean by that.

 

[felicemastronzo]

Not sure what you mean by that.

my fault

if MC's proposal to Maya and Josy has been accepted, it seems to me that after the PREP party MC no longer talks to Sage

 

[Mormont]

Regarding the canonical topic, to sum it up, my playthrough may be canonical to me but not to you. But to DPC, all are viable routes so all are canonical. In the world of BaDIK, there is a tree with alternate branches of what happens based on choices. No matter whatever choice the player makes, is considered valid.

I didn't misunderstand, I'm saying you're using the wrong terminology to describe your point.

I agree there are certain fixed points which are common to multiple paths. This doesn't make the points of divergence non-canon. It's almost certain the final love interest will be a result of the players choices, so it's obviously a branching story to some extent with alternate timelines/realities.

Seems like I got a lot of reading to catch up on, but now that's exactly how it is very well put the voices of reason The branching is the most complex part of the game for DPC to do I wouldn't want to be in his shoes for that just playing all the damn routes is a strain enough making sure you've tried every option to see any differences and oh boy there certainly is.

 

[Holy Bacchus]

my fault

if MC's proposal to Maya and Josy has been accepted, it seems to me that after the PREP party MC no longer talks to Sage

Are we talking about if the MC isn't with Sage but is with M&J? Because I can't say for sure how that goes as I haven't done it myself, but I know from what others have said that the chat they have seems to indicate that, in this scenario, if Sage had ended things with Chad earlier then the MC might have been interested in pursuing something and Sage seems somewhat interested in him. Therefore, some people seem to suspect that a 2nd chance at a Sage path may open up after this.

Even if that isn't the case, there may very well be more moments like this where the MC and Sage have friendly interactions, so I don't think we can for sure that this chat in ep 5 ends any and all interactions with Sage in the future.

 

[gametime25]

I'm patiently waiting for Season 2 to come out on Steam.

 

[felicemastronzo]

Are we talking about if the MC isn't with Sage but is with M&J? Because I can't say for sure how that goes as I haven't done it myself, but I know from what others have said that the chat they have seems to indicate that, in this scenario, if Sage had ended things with Chad earlier then the MC might have been interested in pursuing something and Sage seems somewhat interested in him. Therefore, some people seem to suspect that a 2nd chance at a Sage path may open up after this.

Even if that isn't the case, there may very well be more moments like this where the MC and Sage have friendly interactions, so I don't think we can for sure that this chat in ep 5 ends any and all interactions with Sage in the future.

exactly

I refer only to the after PREP party.

after that, in theory, there would still be the meeting in the HOTs garden (even if it is not canon even that)

 

[Holy Bacchus]

exactly

I refer only to the after PREP party.

after that, in theory, there would still be the meeting in the HOTs garden (even if it is not canon even that)

Well, that only happens if you agree to help Sage learn guitar on the FWB path, which means it doesn't happen for everybody and is therefore not a "canon" scene since it's not universal. But just because that's not a universal scene for everybody doesn't necessarily mean that scenes with Sage are done on the friend path as there could still be some in later episodes.

 

[Wizard_Shiryuu]

Seems like I got a lot of reading to catch up on, but now that's exactly how it is very well put the voices of reason The branching is the most complex part of the game for DPC to do I wouldn't want to be in his shoes for that just playing all the damn routes is a strain enough making sure you've tried every option to see any differences and oh boy there certainly is.

But seriously, he should have done something similar to keep the interactions mapped. I hope not in the wall, though .

 

[chocolatemilkgames]

Are you sure you quoted the right post? Because I'm honestly not sure why this reads like you think I don't like M&J because I am one of, if not THE, most staunch defender of them, especially Maya.

The post you responded to was me crticising those who do dislike/hate M&J because most of them are likely to be hypocrites who wouldn't think there was anything wrong if they did the same thing as them.

Oh no, I was agreeing with your post and trying to add my own feelings about the M&J hate. I'm well aware of your feelings on the matter at this point, lol

 

[Holy Bacchus]

Oh no, I was agreeing with your post and trying to add my own feelings about the M&J hate. I'm well aware of your feelings on the matter at this point, lol

Ah, OK. I think I just focused on that last line and was like, "What? Why do I need to reexamine what I think about M&J when I'm defending them?"

 

[moskyx]

OK, let's summarize this. Everything you do in the game is canon because there isn't a canonical path defined by the dev. A truly canon path would only appear if DPC ever makes a sequel assuming that one specific path was what actually happened in this universe. Until then everything is canon. What we have here is just branches and alternative situations, with some unskippable, fixed events that are central to the story and will happen regardless our choices. The outcomes of those events might be different though because of such choices. But everything is canon - or better yet, nothing is canon

 

[Holy Bacchus]

OK, let's summarize this. Everything you do in the game is canon because there isn't a canonical path defined by the dev. A truly canon path would only appear if DPC ever makes a sequel assuming that one specific path was what actually happened in this universe. Until then everything is canon. What we have here is just branches and alternative situations, with some unskippable, fixed events that are central to the story and will happen regardless our choices. The outcomes of those events might be different though because of such choices. But everything is canon - or better yet, nothing is canon

Following the Assassin's Creed maxim: Nothing is true; everything is permitted.