VN Ren'Py Being a DIK [v0.10.1] [DrPinkCake]

[ename144]

No, it's an apt comparison.

Is it?

Ignoring the myriad of details (and differing continuities) we could debate, the fact of the matter is that the Joker was an established villain for decades before Harley was invented. Harley's abusive antics are always going to play very differently when she's his sidekick.

Quinn not only isn't forced to compete for attention against one of the most famous sociopaths in fiction, she isn't even a sidekick at all.

 

[Darkdevil66]

I'm pretty damn sure we don't

I never said she wasn't interesting now did I? I never said she didn't present harsh realities either did I? In fact, never said any of things you're trying to throw at me. Interesting she is I agree as a character.

Don't take it personaly It was more an answer for the whole "Quinn's lover clearly have problems" stuff

Trying to defend her though, in any shape, way or form...is entirely another matter. Which is was the point of my posts which you seem to have actually missed.

You know in my country, prositution and selling weed aren't illegals and immoral activities. Differents places, differents standards. Point you seem to have missed in my previous post when I claimed that some people have issue with traits considered as vile and others don't. I'm not trying to defend Quinn's actions because several actions you and the righteous
have condemned aren't even vile in my book. And that's my issue when someone projects his own moral considerations into a porn game and try to make it universal. There is no such thing as moral objectivity and certainly not in an unrealistic porn game.

Like I said, we don't share the moral compass.

 

[Darkdevil66]

enough internet for me today, i'm going outside, bye

I'm going to do the same.

 

[Holy Bacchus]

Is it?

Ignoring the myriad of details (and differing continuities) we could debate, the fact of the matter is that the Joker was an established villain for decades before Harley was invented. Harley's abusive antics are always going to play very differently when she's his sidekick.

Quinn not only isn't forced to compete for attention against one of the most famous sociopaths in fiction, she isn't even a sidekick at all.

Yes, because the main similarity is the fact that even though both characters exhibited morally questionable and reprehensible actions and behaviours, they became fan favourite characters because of how entertaining they were (and, yes, in large part due to male horniness centred on an attractive, fictional female character).

Harley's popularity led to her character and backstory being greatly expanded upon to give greater understanding of why she became so infatuated with "Mistah J" and turned to a life of crime, and in the last 10 or so years she's undergone something of a reformation by breaking away from him and becoming not just more of an anti-hero character, but also one of DC's most popular characters.

We don't yet know what Quinn's reasons are for doing what she does and being how she is, but I see it playing out similarly to Harley in that there is a compelling reason for all of this, however messed it might be, and she has it in her to turn things around and become a better person, yet still retain that edgy demeanour.

 

[311]

Quinn should be far lower down on the list. She's basically a man in drag.

How do I delete someone else's comment?

 

[der123fer]

Lmao, this Quinn hate in the thread lately
Muah, delicious

 

[Aweful]

People thought that only girls like the bad ones... Guess some guys like a bad girl too.

stfu about Quin already. It's making me super soft.

 

[ename144]

Yes, because the main similarity is the fact that even though both characters exhibited morally questionable and reprehensible actions and behaviours, they became fan favourite characters because of how entertaining they were (and, yes, in large part due to male horniness centred on an attractive, fictional female character).

Harley's popularity led to her character and backstory being greatly expanded upon to give greater understanding of why she became so infatuated with "Mistah J" and turned to a life of crime, and in the last 10 or so years she's undergone something of a reformation by breaking away from him and becoming not just more of an anti-hero character, but also one of DC's most popular characters.

We don't yet know what Quinn's reasons are for doing what she does and being how she is, but I see it playing out similarly to Harley in that there is a compelling reason for all of this, however messed it might be, and she has it in her to turn things around and become a better person, yet still retain that edgy demeanour.

I'm not getting what your point is, then. If you're saying Quinn is a lot like Harley before she went mainstream but the audience was generally more forgiving of Harley... doesn't that imply there must be something different about them beyond just the longer name?

As I said, Quinn is always going to have a harder time getting audience sympathy because her transgressions aren't overshadowed by the Clown Prince of Crime. Harley being a sidekick meant her terrible actions frequently looked tame in comparison. Quinn isn't a sidekick, so her actions are forced to stand on their own.

Plus, Quinn is arguably the main antagonist in the game thus far, and her actions are frequently much worse than the competition. Quinn easily manages to out-asshole Tommy, IMHO. Tybalt is her only real match, but they almost never interact and the one time they did Quinn still came off as the bigger jerk because of the whole "ditching Hell Week to peddle drugs" thing.

Beyond that, though, the other problem is that Quinn is not nearly as memorable a villain as Harley was. Harley had an instantly iconic visual aesthetic backed by an inspired voice actor (who could in turn play off Kevin Conroy and Mark Hamill); Quinn has a pretty standard goth look and is silent. As a girl, Harley immediately stood out from Batman's mostly male cast of characters; Quinn is in a game dominated by female characters. Harley got to piggyback off one of the most iconic villains in comic books; Quinn is a solo act doing fairly typical "mean girl" things. It's not really a fair match for Quinn.

Again, I'm not trying to say that Quinn is a worse person than Harley, or even that Quinn is a bad villain. I just think it would take more than just a sympathetic backstory to turn Quinn into Harley.

Of course, I've always been skeptical of Harley as an anti-hero, too. So perhaps I'm not the demographic to worry about.

 

[Holy Bacchus]

I'm not getting what your point is, then. If you're saying Quinn is a lot like Harley before she went mainstream but the audience was generally more forgiving of Harley... doesn't that imply there must be something different about them beyond just the longer name?

As I said, Quinn is always going to have a harder time getting audience sympathy because her transgressions aren't overshadowed by the Clown Prince of Crime. Harley being a sidekick meant her terrible actions frequently looked tame in comparison. Quinn isn't a sidekick, so her actions are forced to stand on their own.

Plus, Quinn is arguably the main antagonist in the game thus far, and her actions are frequently much worse than the competition. Quinn easily manages to out-asshole Tommy, IMHO. Tybalt is her only real match, but they almost never interact and the one time they did Quinn still came off as the bigger jerk because of the whole "ditching Hell Week to peddle drugs" thing.

Beyond that, though, the other problem is that Quinn is not nearly as memorable a villain as Harley was. Harley had an instantly iconic visual aesthetic backed by an inspired voice actor (who could in turn play off Kevin Conroy and Mark Hamill); Quinn has a pretty standard goth look and is silent. As a girl, Harley immediately stood out from Batman's mostly male cast of characters; Quinn is in a game dominated by female characters. Harley got to piggyback off one of the most iconic villains in comic books; Quinn is a solo act doing fairly typical "mean girl" things. It's not really a fair match for Quinn.

Again, I'm not trying to say that Quinn is a worse person than Harley, or even that Quinn is a bad villain. I just think it would take more than just a sympathetic backstory to turn Quinn into Harley.

Of course, I've always been skeptical of Harley as an anti-hero, too. So perhaps I'm not the demographic to worry about.

I'm not saying that people were more forgiving of Harley, but that the reasons for people liking these characters are, in my opinion, practically the same.

Harley Quinn was a sidekick, but she still did bad things of her own volition because she's psycho and those actions were entirely her own, and whilst they might not have reached quite the same levels of psycho as Joker, it doesn't diminish her actions to the point of being irrelevant by comparison to his.

I think you might be looking at this too much as a 1:1 comparison which is not what I've been getting at. They aren't 100% comparable for obvious reasons, it's simply that they both have a fan-favourite status despite being characters who commit objectively bad actions for objectively bad reasons, and that Quinn, much like Harley, may be similarly misguided in her actions and could have a similar redemptive/reformation arc to her character.

Anyway, I just find the contrast between how people react to Quinn versus how people react to comic book villains iteresting because I've honestly never known people to have such visceral and extreme reactions to comic book villains as I've seen with how people react to Quinn.

P.S. The Harley Quinn series was awesome and I can't wait for Season 3.

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[casual200102]

Heres my list:

 

[aslknaslknd]

Abit late to the party but nevertheless...
Looks:

Overall:

 

[mizilic]

What the heck is this huge discussion about Quin on several pages when in fact all i need at this time is a WT for version 0.52 Does anyody have it ? If yes, please post it. Thanks in advance.

 

[Vollezar]

What I want to know Is what @DrPinkCake thinks of how much love, hate and discussion there is about his characters and the game. What does it feel like to have this much effect on people with your creation?
Personally I got really attached to some characters, but others I want to see being spit roasted (not in a good way). I get so much into the story that it can make me feel sad or smile or even rage. There is only one another game I found that has this effect on me and I am loving that they do that to me. Thank You.

 

[Arigon]

You know, it's kind of fitting that her name is Quinn because if we were to add the name "Harley" in front of it, then maybe people could better understand why a character who has done bad things is popular, but also that that character can change and maybe isn't as bad as they seemed.

NO
She is nowhere as good as Harley Quinn.
She is a whore. Pimp. Drug Dealer.
Not even in the same universe as Harley. Sorry Bacchus, you are totally wrong.

 

[Arigon]

DPC can not handle critical thoughts. I seriously doubt he looks at this. HE wants to be worshiped for his sub par writing and great renders. IF someone else took over the writing, like anyone else, it would be better. His renders are his ONLY strong suit.

 

[clitcommander]

I see there have been some posts on Patreon about episode six. Could some kind member give me the gist of the posts? Looking promising or don't get your hopes up?

 

[mizilic]

WT for v. 0.5.2 please!

 

[SPACE_BOOOOOST]

DPC can not handle critical thoughts. I seriously doubt he looks at this. HE wants to be worshiped for his sub par writing and great renders. IF someone else took over the writing, like anyone else, it would be better. His renders are his ONLY strong suit.

You spend an awful lot of time discussing a game and developer you despise with such passion, might I ask what the point of it is? I don't mind that you dislike it so much, it doesn't affect my enjoyment of BaDIK whatsoever but it does baffle me that you can't seem to let go of something you claim to like solely for its renders.

 

[RC-1138 Boss]

DPC can not handle critical thoughts. I seriously doubt he looks at this. HE wants to be worshiped for his sub par writing and great renders. IF someone else took over the writing, like anyone else, it would be better. His renders are his ONLY strong suit.

While i believe there are better writters around here implying that his writting is pretty much shit is a exageration. Also he left this forum because crybabies started harassing him during Acting Lessons development because they couldn't take that game's last act.

 

[Yuno Gasai]

You spend an awful lot of time discussing a game and developer you despise with such passion, might I ask what the point of it is? I don't mind that you dislike it so much, it doesn't affect my enjoyment of BaDIK whatsoever but it does baffle me that you can't seem to let go of something you claim to like solely for its renders.

Seriously, I just want to know the name of the dev/VN that has raised the "writing" standards so high over here that this is always treated like shit.
It may not be the best but, is still better than most of the crap that we see in this genre. Imho the writing is impressive considering he is managing so many characters with some level of drama attached to everyone.
With so much going on, the writing will seem a bit off sometimes but as long as it's fun it shouldn't matter.

And looking at the no. of pages in this thread, it's safe to say that it's quite enjoyable for a lot of people. So as the game fulfills its primary objective, "good" writing is only secondary.