VN Ren'Py Being a DIK [v0.10.1] [DrPinkCake]

[DavDR]

I am going to give you the benefit of the doubt and you probably forgot what actually happened, but Maya did NOT "strip completely naked" in that scene. She wore her underwear.

Perhaps a small point, but you seemed to emphasize it in your posts, so it must mean something to you.

I would categorize that as a quibble

 

[Heycock]

Seriously?! Do I even have to bother with this? Helen a damsel? A whore maybe but a Damsel? No one was riding to her rescue, Menelaous and Agamemnon came to Troy for vengeance not rescue. I'd go through the others on your list but they are all equally incoherent.

A helpless and defenseless "whore" wich couses pain to everyone except herself for her irresponsable actions. But it's not the archetype you are looking for? Ok, you wanted just one, go for Cossette. She is protected her entire life for a random guy who felt guilty for her mother. Right to the point of almost sacrifice himself to bring her a guy she was in love with, a random dude she met on the streets some weaks before, and who was busy with more important issues. Right in the middle of a revolution with everyone getting shoot. And while all of this was happening she was doing... absolutely nothing.

 

[Heycock]

To be fair, i've been woken up by women exactly like this quite often as i'm certain many men and maybe women here have had happen with people they were dating to whatever extent. It's nowhere close to rape or sexual assault. What Maya did however...yeah, that crosses the line into legal issues, especially with other women present that the MC was unaware of that then proceeded to use a stun gun on him. That isn't just sexual assault, that's also assault & battery, not to mention kidnapping considering they hauled him off to the dik's mansion and tied him to a chair where the lunatic that is quinn, also proceeded to rape him. But yes, this argument was already discussed hundreds if not thousands of pages ago...you're a bit late to the party on that score.

Lucky dog.
Once a girl touch my butt without my consent. Correct me if i am wrong, but thats sexual assault. Luckly we ended having sex in her house. Great night.
One of the struggles of feminism was that rape could happen even in marriage. So, if i am going purist i will say that a relation vaguely defined cannot be considered an excuse to rape. If i am going reasonable i will say that the MC was on board with both Sage's and Maya's actions and inmediately aprove and encourage them, so neither of them was rape or sexual assault. Besides at any point the MC had any complain regard both issues.
Also even is Sage doesnt qualify as sexual assault, what about MC breaking into the HOT house to steal panties? Is not that sexual assault? If Sage is innocent, MC is not, and yet noone will complain.

 

[`Ray`]

Thnks man, i am another bro sadly.
Well, she is a kid. Not the most clever apple in the street, but kind and sweet, thats why we like her.

Haha, No problem bro, nothing to feel sad of.
Yes, exactly every character in the game is unique, I personally like Maya but not more than Jill. Maya's character is kind, sweet, caring, a little selfish [though every human is] and a lot more. I think that Maya's character is that who is lost in the path midway, We just have to help her reach the end of road. Like everyone say's Quinn is a broken character who we can help likewise Maya is a lost character who we can help as well. If people here are so excited to help Quinn to become a good person then what's the problem in helping Maya reach her way.

 

[Deleted member 3691867]

But yes, this argument was already discussed hundreds if not thousands of pages ago...you're a bit late to the party on that score.

He wasn't the one to bring up that specific topic, but it doesn't matter.

I have been reading this thread for a few months now and the same topic about Maya is almost always discussed with things that she did or rather didn't do, while there are some valid arguments, most of them get lost due to a extreme dislike for the character itself and that's where the exaggerations begin that make her look like she's horrible or evil when the only thing she is, is flawed like most characters here.

 

[Lightaces]

No, they don't exist. Even Sage tells you that free HOTs' tuitions don't exist. HOTs HAVE TO PAY in order to support themselves and their sorority: Quinn, Riona, Sarah, Camila (Mel maybe too) are paying it by selling drugs and whoring.

Honestly, did you really understand what has been happening in the story so far?

Did you miss Stephen Burke deleting Mona's scholarship at the end of chapter 6?

Spoiler: Before

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Spoiler: After

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He is clearly setting up scholarships for Quinn's girls who he fucks. I wouldn't be at all surprised if this was funded by Quinn's girls working for other alumni, who donate to the "Wallace Resource Scholarship," though I'll admit there is no evidence to support this idea, but it makes sense.

 

[Overam22]

I don't know, DPC shows us at the start (and a few other times) that this is MC from sometime in the future telling us his story (which doesn't have to be all that far, we could catch up to "real time" in like episode 12 where's he's fucked everything up and then go and try and salvage what we can or something like that), but it's really not done well if that's what it's supposed to be. We clearly see things MC couldn't possibly know. Now there is a really simple explanation for that, MC could just be making shit up as he goes, but there is no indication whatsoever that he is going for unreliable narrator type of story.

There are other ways you could exploit that type of narration, i.e. bring another narrator in and show a different view of a particular event (people remember same things differently as we know), but we haven't seen any of that either.

DPC is a great writer and maybe he plans to actually do something with this in the future, but I'm leaning more toward the fact that he just thought it sounded cool to add those lines and went with it. He has ignored logic and flow of the story in certain parts in favor of stupid drama after all.

I don't think the game will be that long, man.

My gut tells me that episode 8 will be the last

 

[Lightaces]

Coccaine is not adictive except when in crack form as far as i am aware!

Another BS myth drug dealers put out to sell their product. Also, the "except crack" part comes from some incredibly racist 1980s/90s media coverage of the "innercity crack epidemic" (it wasn't really an inner-city phenomena - it was just as prevalent in the suburbs too). Crack is just cocain, albeit in a more refined form. They are both very addictive.

 

[DavDR]

I will never cease to be amazed by the new and creative (and often wildly incoherent) arguments that the Maya fan's muster to justify her. As stated before, I've always bought into the theory that Maya was created to be hated. I would give a lot to see the look on DPC's face when confronted by this hoard of admirers.

 

[`Ray`]

I don't think the game will be that long, man.

My gut tells me that episode 8 will be the last

DPC himself said that he would be himself shocked if there aren't 4 seasons in a QnA. Don't worry there are least 12-16 episodes

I will never cease to be amazed by the new and creative (and often wildly incoherent) arguments that the Maya fan's muster to justify her. As stated before, I've always bought into the theory that Maya was created to be hated. I would give a lot to see the look on DPC's face when confronted by this hoard of admirers.

You do realize that DPC enjoys writing Maya's character as she is becoming mature mentally. Read the QnA. We will see this at the end of this Game whether your point will fly or drown

 

[bluehound36]

Lucky dog.
Once a girl touch my butt without my consent. Correct me if i am wrong, but thats sexual assault. Luckly we ended having sex in her house. Great night.
One of the struggles of feminism was that rape could happen even in marriage. So, if i am going purist i will say that a relation vaguely defined cannot be considered an excuse to rape. If i am going reasonable i will say that the MC was on board with both Sage's and Maya's actions and inmediately aprove and encourage them, so neither of them was rape or sexual assault. Besides at any point the MC had any complain regard both issues.
Also even is Sage doesnt qualify as sexual assault, what about MC breaking into the HOT house to steal panties? Is not that sexual assault? If Sage is innocent, MC is not, and yet noone will complain.

Well, the difference there is that the MC was breaking and entering and then attempting to steal private property when he was caught by quinn and camila. At which point quinn then proceeded to punish the MC by having camila give the mc a forced blowjob which is well, sexual assault. There's quite a bit of questionable content in this game to say the least which is why i find it all so hilarious. The vast majority of this stuff wouldn't actually happen in real life and if it did, most of the people involved would be having so many legal problems they might as well try to resurrect O.J.'s dead lawyer, Johnnie Cochran if they wanted to get off the charges.

 

[DavDR]

DPC himself said that he would be himself shocked if there aren't 4 seasons in a QnA. Don't worry there are least 12-16 episodes

You do realize that DPC enjoys writing Maya's character as she is becoming mature mentally. Read the QnA. We will see this at the end of this Game whether your point will fly or drown

If DPC thinks he is depicting Maya as a maturing person then he's an even worse writer than I thought, and delusional to boot. I always expected that all those Patron's were going to his head, thanks for confirming it.

 

[Overam22]

DPC himself said that he would be himself shocked if there aren't 4 seasons in a QnA. Don't worry there are least 12-16 episodes

Really? Wow. Thanks for the heads up, mate!

 

[Heycock]

Well, the difference there is that the MC was breaking and entering and then attempting to steal private property when he was caught by quinn and camila. At which point quinn then proceeded to punish the MC by having camila give the mc a forced blowjob which is well, sexual assault. There's quite a bit of questionable content in this game to say the least which is why i find it all so hilarious. The vast majority of this stuff wouldn't actually happen in real life and if it did, most of the people involved would be having so many legal problems they might as well try to resurrect O.J.'s dead lawyer, Johnnie Cochran if they wanted to get off the charges.

Camila blowjob, i forget that one. Good call. I meant that, besides stealing, to steal panties is sexual harrasement.

By the way guys, this is the MC being raped by Maya for the seventh time. That woman is a monster:

 

[Abhishek_tanwar]

I am going to give you the benefit of the doubt and you probably forgot what actually happened, but Maya did NOT "strip completely naked" in that scene. She wore her underwear.

Perhaps a small point, but you seemed to emphasize it in your posts, so it must mean something to you.

I am going to give you the benefit of the doubt and you probably forgot what actually happened, Her boobs were out and her panty were also transparent. ✌

She chose the outfit for that specified moment.

 

[ename144]

Oh? Examples please? As I said before Maya takes the Damsel in distress trope to whole new level's. There was even a theory in this thread that Maya was written to be an unlikable character, a theory I don't find hard to believe at all. Also don't assume something you have no way of knowing. In fact I've read a great deal. You made an assertion, prove it.

A more useless damsel than Maya? That's easy: Lex from Jurassic Park (the book, not the movie). Lex endangered the heroes' lives at least once a chapter; Maya hasn't done it once yet.

No I think you are missing something. Maya caved, she stripped completely naked in front of a guy she barely knew and ground him to near ejaculation. She already crossed the line, easily. The key factors on whether a person is manipulated into prostitution are desperation and emotional isolation. When Maya caved she was far down both path's. As far as I'm concerned, the only thing that kept her from winding up at the glory hole was the inexplicable delay in Quinn pushing the final step. She pushed it for Camila and Mona, why not Maya? I also don't think that Quinn would balk at Maya working glory holes, she's fine with Camila doing it, and only for oral sex. Again, why not Maya? She would still be servicing customer's and bringing in revenue.

But Maya flat out refused to participate in the Cum-petition. So apparently she hadn't completely caved to Quinn yet. You're ignoring what's actually shown in the game in your zeal to berate it for not matching your personal head canon (again).

It's going to take several posts to straighten out the Maya dindu nuthin faction. The MC is thrown out of his dorm room by Troy, slips on a flyer on the floor in the hallway, and is introduced to Maya, who asks him if he needs help. Maya tells the MC about the four fraternities and one sorority on campus and says she is also a freshman but has been to the campus before.

View attachment 1193653

The first thing she tells the MC about the HOT sorority when he asks about it:

View attachment 1193668

The MC's response:

View attachment 1193669

The very next words out of her mouth:

View attachment 1193670

Kind of unofficial means Maya should be asking someone other than Quinn, and what exactly are their criteria?

Then she tells the MC:

View attachment 1193673

Because:

View attachment 1193674

And then she stops explaining. And then she gives the MC this line:

View attachment 1193675

Then they go their separate ways until class. At class, Maya tells the MC this:

View attachment 1193677

And:

View attachment 1193678

Which means what? Quinn was partially against it?

View attachment 1193681

The MC asks her who Quinn is, to which she responds:

View attachment 1193685

Then she tells the MC she can't spend time with him because:

View attachment 1193687

Then at the next class Maya talks the MC into joining the gender studies class. Then they go to lunch. At lunch Maya gives the MC this line:

View attachment 1193694

The next time we see Maya is when the MC and Derek are sitting on the bench outside. Derek convinces Maya to allow the MC to stay with her for one night. When they get to her room she tells the MC:

View attachment 1193703

So, she asked for complete honesty from the MC but is less than completely honest in return. After a few unimportant interactions she tells the MC this:

View attachment 1193715

The MC asks:

View attachment 1193718

To which she responds:

View attachment 1193724

Late at night the MC is worried that she's not back yet and tries to call her:

View attachment 1193727

Then Maya comes into the room, sees the MC is asleep, and sexually molests him with three HOT members watching because of some promise of free tuition if she meets their criteria.

View attachment 1193731

This all takes place in Episode 1. Now, how do you blame Quinn lying about free tuition for Maya lying to the MC and sexually assaulting him for free tuition, whether or not free tuition actually existed? Who wants to argue that if there had actually been free tuition what Maya did would be acceptable? Does anyone want to argue that if the MC had been the one thinking there was free tuition and had done the same thing to Maya it would be OK?

Maya's sexual orientation, her father being a prick, and Quinn being a manipulator have no bearing on her own personal responsibility for her actions. She's a grown adult who doesn't know how to handle situations like an adult. "Well, I really shouldn't rape this guy but I need the money!"

Please.

Well, you left out this:

It's significant since it makes it clear Quinn didn't tell Maya the free tuition didn't exist. Had Quinn dismissed the rumors then and there, Maya would never have done what she did.

Now I do agree that what Maya did was wrong whether or not there really was free tuition at stake. But I'm not sure who's disputing that. Both Maya and the MC acknowledge Maya did something wrong here. Maya apologizes for it and the MC forgives her. If Quinn had similarly apologized (the way Sarah eventually did) for letting Maya believe she might get free tuition out of this, we wouldn't be giving Quinn nearly as much flak.

The problem is that Quinn didn't apologize, she doubled down and went onto confirm that Maya she COULD get free tuition if she became a HOT. That's what Quinn always does, and that's why it's a problem much bigger than Maya's grinding. IMHO, any way.

Also, I've never quite understood the vitriol over Maya asking for 100% honesty. Maya made it clear she wasn't bound by that restriction herself at the time. It was certainly silly for the MC to agree to unilateral honesty with a girl he barely knew, but he's the one who did it. And speaking for myself, it was pretty obvious Maya was concealing SOMETHING significant; the MC just wasn't allowed to ask about it.

(Just to be clear, I don't excuse Maya for concealing her relationship, but it's not like that would have been any more acceptable if she hadn't asked the MC to be honest with her.)

Now her dad doesn’t hate her, he loves her and he’s trying to "fix" her homosexuality with threats. He's not just worried about her in a lesbian relationship. He also is concerned about her staying in a dorm with a guy now, so he wants to move her to a single dorm.

As misguided as he is, the dad's actions stem from him caring about Maya. The knee jerk reaction to that is, "Then why is he trying to fuck up her future?" He's not. He's threatening her with dire consequences in the hope she'll do what he knows is best. Will he follow through with those dire consequences? Probably not in the long term.

Sure, it sucks that her dad doesn't accept that she loves Josy, but he may never change, just like Maya may never change.

The best resolution is her dad has an epiphany and realizes he's wrong and stops fucking with Maya's life. That would be a nice direction for the game to go, but sometimes you just have to live your life and accept that not everyone will agree with your decisions, even people that you care about.

There are plenty of people who have distanced themselves from their parents due to serious disagreements. That's life, and we all (hopefully) move forward.

It's sad that her dad doesn't accept her as she is, but if he wasn't fucking with her financial situation, she would still be able to life her life normally, instead, because he's fucking with her finances, she thinks her life is fucked.

So her defining problem is her dad is trying to control her finances. If she can overcome that problem (which is what she's trying to do by joining the HOTs) then she doesn't have that problem anymore, she can be happy with Josy and unless her dad is into honor killing, there's not much he can do about it.

Sorry, I can't agree. It's not love to treat a person as your own prop. I'm sure Patrick thinks he has Maya's best interest in mind as he does his level best to override every choice she makes, but I don't much care what he thinks. He crossed a line when he went from cutting off Maya's support to tricking her into giving up any alternate form of support. That's not love, that's borderline megalomania.

Also, as I've said before, the problems with Patrick definitely run deeper than the tuition shenanigans. Consider this:

DavDR sees this as proof that Maya's a useless character incapable of taking action. I see it as an indication that Maya's had someone controlling her life for a long time and really doesn't know how assert herself without making things worse. It's easy to say she should be stronger willed, but decisiveness takes practice like everything else.

No, Maya is one of those people who says 'I'm sorry' too easily and too often. There is an implicit promise in asking for someone's forgiveness, that when you are forgiven that you don't just turn around and fuck over the person who has just forgiven you. Maya's apology in episode 4 is bullshit, she still doesn't come clean with the MC, and she's still being dishonest to the HOT's as well.

I'll agree it was a mistake to force the MC forgive Maya automatically in Episode 4. But Maya has been honest with the MC since then. She doesn't get into the minutiae of her ultimatum until Episode 6, but it's not like we actually learned anything new when she did.

 

[DavDR]

A more useless damsel than Maya? That's easy: Lex from Jurassic Park (the book, not the movie). Lex endangered the heroes' lives at least once a chapter; Maya hasn't done it once yet.



But Maya flat out refused to participate in the Cum-petition. So apparently she hadn't completely caved to Quinn yet. You're ignoring what's actually shown in the game in your zeal to berate it for not matching your personal head canon (again).



Well, you left out this:
View attachment 1193849
It's significant since it makes it clear Quinn didn't tell Maya the free tuition didn't exist. Had Quinn dismissed the rumors then and there, Maya would never have done what she did.

Now I do agree what what Maya did was wrong whether or not there really was free tuition at stake. But I'm not sure who's disputing that. Both Maya and the MC acknowledge Maya did something wrong here. Maya apologizes for it and the MC forgives her. If Quinn had similarly apologized (the way Sarah eventually did) for letting Maya believe she might get free tuition out of this, we wouldn't be giving Quinn nearly as much flak.

The problem is that Quinn didn't apologize, she doubled down and went onto confirm that Maya she COULD get free tuition if she became a HOT. That's what Quinn always does, and that's why it's a problem much bigger than Maya's grinding. IMHO, any way.

Also, I've never quite understood the vitriol over Maya asking for 100% honesty. Maya made it clear she wasn't bound by that restriction herself at the time. It was certainly silly for the MC to agree to unilateral honesty with a girl he barely knew, but he's the one who did it. And speaking for myself, it was pretty obvious Maya was concealing SOMETHING significant; the MC just wasn't allowed to ask about it.

(Just to be clear, I don't excuse Maya for concealing her relationship, but it's not like that would have been any more acceptable if she hadn't asked the MC to be honest with her.)




Sorry, I can't agree. It's not love to treat a person as your own prop. I'm sure Patrick thinks he has Maya's best interest in mind as he does his level best to override every choice she makes, but I don't much care what he thinks. He crossed a line when he went from cutting off Maya's support to tricking her into giving up any alternate form of support. That's not love, that's borderline megalomania.

Also, as I've said before, the problems with Patrick definitely run deeper than the tuition shenanigans. Consider this:
View attachment 1193843
DavDR sees this as proof that Maya's a useless character incapable of taking action. I see it as an indication that Maya's had someone controlling her life for a long time and really doesn't know how assert herself without making things worse. It's easy to say she should be stronger willed, but decisiveness takes practice like everything else.



I'll agree it was a mistake to force the MC forgive Maya automatically in Episode 4. But Maya has been honest with the MC since then. She doesn't get into the minutiae of her ultimatum until Episode 6, but it's not like we actually learned anything new when she did.

It doesn't matter that she refused the cumpetition, haven't you ever heard of asking for 1,000 when the number you need is 800?

"Sorry, I can't agree. It's not love to treat a person as your own prop."
Thanks for finally admitting that neither Maya or Josey actually ever cared for the MC, seeing as how they both used him as a prop to their loneliness.

I don't remember that movie at all, wasn't Lex one of the children?

 

[ename144]

It doesn't matter that she refused the cumpetition, haven't you ever heard of asking for 1,000 when the number you need is 800?

"Sorry, I can't agree. It's not love to treat a person as your own prop."
Thanks for finally admitting that neither Maya or Josey actually ever cared for the MC, seeing as how they both used him as a prop to their loneliness.

Yeah, it really was terrible of them to force the MC to... hang on, what did they strongarm the MC into doing again? Oh right, that only happened in your mind.

I mean, feel free to point to concrete examples of Maya (or Josy) actively removing the MC's ability to take actions the way Patrick did. But every time I ask you to get specific you just insult me and insist it's obvious they don't care for him.

So unless you'd like to actually back up your claim I'm guessing we're done here.

EDIT:

I don't remember that movie at all, wasn't Lex one of the children?

Yes, she was Hammond's granddaughter. In the movie she was the competent one. In the book, she was... not. Definitely not.

 

[DavDR]

To be fair, that's pretty much how most women control men. The power of the pussy is real.
That said, maya was stupid for co-signing a loan with him. That brings legal issues into play if she doesn't follow the terms of the contract. However, i seriously doubt any college would provide him or any parent with a key to the dorm room. Yet something else that i find hilariously stupid with the story.

Yeah, I noticed that line in ep 7, it's even stupider than the original Patrick as co-signer. How could Maya co-sign a loan? She has no assets. Banks are not that stupid, they don't believe that they can squeeze blood from a stone.

 

[DavDR]

Uhhh, because Patrick will force Maya into bankruptcy if she doesn't do what he says. It was discussed at great length in the latest episode.

Unlike Patrick, Maya and Josy haven't done anything like that to the MC yet; they've asked for favors and accepted his help, but they never put a metaphorical gun to the MC's head. (They also haven't had 17 years to beat independent thought out of him before he became an adult, either, but we can skip that until we get a better sense of Maya's childhood.)

Yeah, they don't imprison you for bankruptcy anymore. They divide your assets, of which Maya has none, and pay off your creditors, then they erase the debt. It stays on your credit report for a few years and then 'poof' it's all gone. In fact, bankruptcy laws are there to protect the creditor, not the lender they only get pennies on the dollar of the debt owed to them.

And yes I know, Maya and Josey are perfect angels that never did anything wrong, in your little world.