VN Ren'Py Being a DIK [v0.10.1] [DrPinkCake]

[DavDR]

It’s a “virtual” novel, i.e. a story.

DPC made it clear that the story is fairly linear. You basically just get to choose who the mc fucks.

No ones forcing you to do anything anything.

If you pick up a novel and read it, and you don’t like the girl that the Mc is dating, do you feel that it’s being forced on you?

You just put the novel down if you don’t enjoy it.

This “game is the same”. It’s a story; you have some influence over it, but each of these girls are important to the mc’s story and so they will remain.

This is not your story.

Yeah, tell that to all the reviewers and stan's who go on and on about choice in this game. But I stand by my essential point. For the author to assume that the players would like all the LI's is a flaw in the design of the game, and a valid criticism.

 

[ename144]

I don't really understand what the difference is between status and affinity honestly. Could anyone explain? Is status based on your DIK gauge and affinity based on actions only? I didn't really pay attention to the explanation while playing the game before, just DIK'ed everything up.

Mechanically, Status is determined by minor actions (conversation choices, mostly) and affects the way the MC speaks: he uses a lot more profanity and vulgarity if he has DIK status. Affinity is determined by 'Major' choices, like beating up Troy in Episode 1, or partying without limits at the Pink Rose in Episode 3. It doesn't have a lot of direct effect, but an increasing number of options will either require or forbid a given Affinity. Also, starting with Episode 7 it's possible to make Major choices automatically if you have achieved permanent Affinity.

Thematically, it's a bit of a muddled mess. In theory Affinity represents the way the MC thinks (his core identity if you will), while Status is vague combo of reputation and style. But in practice the lines are so blurred as to be useless. We're basically stuck with two very slightly related mechanics to do the same thing, resulting in a frustrating, extremely overcomplicated setup that hinders roleplay at least as much as it helps.

Sadly, we're stuck with it now.

The game doesn't give you any choice. One of the major flaws of BaDIK is that the game assume's that you are attracted to all of the LI's and causes the MC to interact with them based on that assumption. For example, the dinner date with Bella in ep 2. Why would an MC who is not attracted to Jill or Bella accept the invitation? And yet there is no choice to NOT accept the invitation.

Eh, I'm fairly forgiving of that one: we've established that (whether we're interested in her or not) the MC does think Bella is hot. And it is an opportunity to prove her wrong and/or get to know her. Also, at the time the MC had no pressing concerns that needed to be put on hold for the not-date. So I think it's reasonable to assume even an MC uninterested in Bella might go along just for the novelty.

I think a better example of the problem is the MC sleepover at Bella's in Episode 5. By then he and Bella know each other; they might even dislike each other if you work hard enough. Yet Bella will still invite the MC to stay (AND let him call her Bella if she previously forbid it), for pretty much no reason. Meanwhile, an MC on either the Sage or Maya/Josy paths has ample reason to want to spend the night elsewhere, yet he never even gives it a thought.

And we've already discussed the most egregious example of how absurd the MC's moping in Chapter 4 is if he declined to sleep with both Maya and Josy. So I definitely agree the game has its flaws.

I've heard that argument before, there are lot's of games with extensive branching, proving it's not impossible.

But I can't agree with this. I have not found another game that offers meaningful branching significantly better than BaDIK. Plenty of games have very well done branching, but the branches are high level and very discrete - even then there are often plenty of seams visible. I've also seen a few games have more extensive branching, but those always run into the problem that the branching itself is so disconnected from any narrative as to become effectively filler.

BaDIK strikes the best balance IMHO. There's a ridiculous amount of attention to detail, with a lot of subtle callbacks to decisions you've made, but the game does keep those decisions (large and small) within the context of an ongoing story. It's not perfect and we will notice the rails on occasion, but it's still an impressive work.

 

[Daver]

note: on ep 2 when MC is drunk are at Bella's home we should choose if kiss her or not, in the same way we can choose to peek on her or not

 

[felicemastronzo]

or you can respect what they already have, be their friend, also their brothers friend, try to support them and help them...
Jill is virgin, without a relationship, Sage is almost out of her relationship, Quinn can be worth to fighting for depends on what will be your loses on this path...

I still don't understand what you're talking about....

Do you think it's wrong to be interested in Josy and Maya? I think you've got the wrong game...

but regardless of what you or I may believe, the game tells us that MC falls in love at first sight with Josy and with Maya builds a relationship for both of them that becomes more and more important, without this premise chapter 4 is a piece of crap and being the main part of season 1 consequently the whole first season is a piece of crap. and that was my point

Are you for real men ! What mc think about him self for being in relation with bella and jill.

There is your answer, If mc in the path of bella and and jill he think of him self as a garbage and this 3 way is doomed to doom all including mc. 3 way regarding M and J will see same faith.

In fact, I wrote that it is the only relationship for which the game warns us that there will be problems.

then the scene is what it is, from that decision you pass even if you are only on Jill path, and I don't understand why the only solution to that dilemma is to leave Jill...

 

[DavDR]

Mechanically, Status is determined by minor actions (conversation choices, mostly) and affects the way the MC speaks: he uses a lot more profanity and vulgarity if he has DIK status. Affinity is determined by 'Major' choices, like beating up Troy in Episode 1, or partying without limits at the Pink Rose in Episode 3. It doesn't have a lot of direct effect, but an increasing number of options will either require or forbid a given Affinity. Also, starting with Episode 7 it's possible to make Major choices automatically if you have achieved permanent Affinity.

Thematically, it's a bit of a muddled mess. In theory Affinity represents the way the MC thinks (his core identity if you will), while Status is vague combo of reputation and style. But in practice the lines are so blurred as to be useless. We're basically stuck with two very slightly related mechanics to do the same thing, resulting in a frustrating, extremely overcomplicated setup that hinders roleplay at least as much as it helps.

Sadly, we're stuck with it now.



Eh, I'm fairly forgiving of that one: we've established that (whether we're interested in her or not) the MC does think Bella is hot. And it is an opportunity to prove her wrong and/or get to know her. Also, at the time the MC had no pressing concerns that needed to be put on hold for the not-date. So I think it's reasonable to assume even an MC uninterested in Bella might go along just for the novelty.

I think a better example of the problem is the MC sleepover at Bella's in Episode 5. By then he and Bella know each other; they might even dislike each other if you work hard enough. Yet Bella will still invite the MC to stay (AND let him call her Bella if she previously forbid it), for pretty much no reason. Meanwhile, an MC on either the Sage or Maya/Josy paths has ample reason to want to spend the night elsewhere, yet he never even gives it a thought.

And we've already discussed the most egregious example of how absurd the MC's moping in Chapter 4 is if he declined to sleep with both Maya and Josy. So I definitely agree the game has its flaws.



But I can't agree with this. I have not found another game that offers meaningful branching significantly better than BaDIK. Plenty of games have very well done branching, but the branches are high level and very discrete - even then there are often plenty of seams visible. I've also seen a few games have more extensive branching, but those always run into the problem that the branching itself is so disconnected from any narrative as to become effectively filler.

BaDIK strikes the best balance IMHO. There's a ridiculous amount of attention to detail, with a lot of subtle callbacks to decisions you've made, but the game does keep those decisions (large and small) within the context of an ongoing story. It's not perfect and we will notice the rails on occasion, but it's still an impressive work.

You should try Eva Kiss games then. In both Good Girl Gone Bad and Our Red String there is significant branching that has major impact on who the MC is and the story over all. That's just one dev as an example, I could offer many more but don't want to write an extensive plug for other games. Of the games I'm currently following I would say that BaDIK offers the least significant choices or effective branching. This really is a story on rails.

 

[DavDR]

I think it's best to see all of the main LI's as friends essential to the story, any romance being optional... Even though you might not be interested romanticly in one or more of them, they still are part of the story. There may very well be essential info in the scenes you can not avoid, if not now perhaps for future content to make any sense...

At times things happen that may feel forced, but if it's essential to the story it just is what it is...



It's not even JUST a tennis match.... it is THE tennis match Tybalt lost his teeth the tennis date directly affects how Tybalt's presentation scene plays out....

See this is another thing I don't like about the game. All of DPC's antagonist (in this game anyway) are buffoon's, they can't be taken seriously and therefore don't feel like a threat. This has all been discussed on this thread before so I won't go on extensively about it, but any physical violence against Tybalt just feels like bullying, at least it does to me.

 

[shazba]

Yeah, tell that to all the reviewers and stan's who go on and on about choice in this game. But I stand by my essential point. For the author to assume that the players would like all the LI's is a flaw in the design of the game, and a valid criticism.

I was never a huge fan of Bella and I've gone off Maya over the many months ( I don't hate any of them - I never got the hatred for Maya that some players got after she and Josy didn't choose the mc), and yet I still immensely enjoy the game and don't mind the interactions with Bella and Maya.

If you aren't on a Bella path, scenes with her are fairly consistent, i.e. she's still the glare monster, and Maya's a damsel in distress regardless, but that's who they are. I don't mind how the characters are written, but those two are just not written for my tastes regarding the mc's love interest.

I can imagine if you were only interested in Sage (as in your case) and find the other characters as tedious, that's a problem that you personally have with the game, but that's definitely not everyone's circumstance.

I guess your preference would be that if, for example, you didn't like M&J, you could reject them and their story arc is basically removed from the game and you don't have to deal with them anymore. That's certainly one way to do it.

DPC chose not to do that, but that doesn't make it a flaw. It just means he didn't cater to your preference of how you'd like the game to operate. It would be an impossibility to cater to everyone's preferences (in some reviews for this game people have written that they don't like any of the LIs).

So no, I don't agree it's a flaw, it just means this game is done in a way you don't like, but it's also done in a way that more people do like than any other game on this site. So it sounds like this game caters to enough people to be successful.

You should try Eva Kiss games then. In both Good Girl Gone Bad and Our Red String there is significant branching that has major impact on who the MC is and the story over all. That's just one dev as an example, I could offer many more but don't want to write an extensive plug for other games. Of the games I'm currently following I would say that BaDIK offers the least significant choices or effective branching. This really is a story on rails.

I felt that Intertwined also managed to have some significant branches from time to time.

But BaDIK isn't a "Choose Your Own Adventure" book. It never intended to be that. The significant choices are simply just the girls your chase and less significant (but still very entertaining) is the way your character behaves (DIK or Chick). To expect more, and to criticize it for not delivering that which it never set out to be, is unfair.

See this is another thing I don't like about the game. All of DPC's antagonist (in this game anyway) are buffoon's, they can't be taken seriously and therefore don't feel like a threat. This has all been discussed on this thread before so I won't go on extensively about it, but any physical violence against Tybalt just feels like bullying, at least it does to me.

But that's OK too. It just doesn't appeal to you. I love how Tybalt is played out as a moron, I find it entertaining.

 

[felicemastronzo]

But I can't agree with this. I have not found another game that offers meaningful branching significantly better than BaDIK. Plenty of games have very well done branching, but the branches are high level and very discrete - even then there are often plenty of seams visible. I've also seen a few games have more extensive branching, but those always run into the problem that the branching itself is so disconnected from any narrative as to become effectively filler.

BaDIK strikes the best balance IMHO. There's a ridiculous amount of attention to detail, with a lot of subtle callbacks to decisions you've made, but the game does keep those decisions (large and small) within the context of an ongoing story. It's not perfect and we will notice the rails on occasion, but it's still an impressive work.

The plot lines are clearly visible and the decisions we make have very little consequence for now.

we warn Maya that Quinn is dangerous and the consequence is that for a few days Maya will do the scavenger hunt alone, without any real consequences, and after days and days if we are still interested in Maya we will square some extra RP with her (will it be useful? we'll see)

Then there are decisions that lead to imponderable consequences like thanking Bella for helping us with Jill.

then there are decisions that we don't understand how they can't have consequences like flirting with Josy in the garden of the HOTs in case she had just lectured Sage or having a threesome with Quinn and Riona before Josy's arrival.

apart from the sense of impending disaster that DPC's fame brings with it, how many really significant decisions have we met? one per chapter maybe

it's true that there are a lot of reminders of what we do or don't do, that the characters remember how we behaved with them, but the influence of these direct behaviours in the end are much less decisive than affinity...

 

[DavDR]

I was never a huge fan of Bella and I've gone off Maya over the many months.

I don't hate any of them (I never got the hatred for Maya that some players got after she and Josy didn't choose the mc), and yet I still immensely enjoy the game and don't mind the interactions with Bella and Maya.

If you aren't on a Bella path, scenes with her are fairly consistent, i.e. she's still the glare monster, and Maya's a damsel in distress regardless, but that's who they are. I don't mind how the characters are written, but those two are just not written for my tastes regarding the mc's love interest.

I can imagine if you were only interested in Sage (as in your case) and find the other characters as tedious, that's a problem that you personally have with the game, but that's definitely not everyone's circumstance.

I guess your preference would be that if, for example, you didn't like M&J, you could reject them and their story arc is basically removed from the game and you don't have to deal with them anymore. That's certainly one way to do it.

DPC chose not to do that, but that doesn't make it a flaw. It just means he didn't cater to your preference of how you'd like the game to operate. It would be an impossibility to cater to everyone's preferences (in some reviews for this game people have written that they don't like any of the LIs).

So no, I don't agree it's a flaw, it just means this game is done in a way you don't like, but it's also done in a way that more people do like than any other game on this site. So it sounds like this game caters to enough people to be successful.


I felt that Intertwined also managed to have some significant branches from time to time.

But BaDIK isn't a "Choose Your Own Adventure" book. It never intended to be that. The significant choices are simply just the girls your chase and less significant (but still very entertaining) is the way your character behaves (DIK or Chick). To expect more, and to criticize it for not delivering that which it never set out to be, is unfair.


But that's OK too. It just doesn't appeal to you. I love how Tybalt is played out as a moron, I find it entertaining.

The best responses always seem to come right before I have to leave.

In short though, I'm currently playing several games that handle character, LI's, plot, and interactions much much better than BaDIK does, and it just highlights my frustrations with the game. Believe it or not I really liked this game, up to about episode 3. But after that it just seemed to get worse and worse. And I'm not just interested in Sage. There's two other characters that I really would have liked but DPC has pretty much fucked that up.

 

[anonymoussposter]

mental gymnastics in thread

 

[Daxos89]

My thoughts on what I expect to happen in ep 8.


The episode will start with either a Bella or a Sage flashback. Sage is more likely, I think.

The MC will have the option to tell Sage about Chad. I’m hoping that MC can convince Chad to tell Sage about it himself. She is currently thinking that Chad was sleeping with Mel, this will be cleared up either way.

I do not think that any conclusion will be done regarding the offer Sage made to Maya, maybe some vague hints will surface on what it is exactly.

MC will have the date with Bella. Depending on whose flashback the episode started with, we may find out more about what she is hiding finally.

Tyballs will have the 3rd date with Jill. I think this will go horribly wrong for him, and Jill will realize what kind of person he is the hard way...

As per the walkthrough there are only 2 more mansion games left, so renovations will be finished this episode. I think the DIKs are getting paid more for the Pink Rose job then what Tommy is telling. As he is handling the deal, I think he skims some of the amount off for himself.

At the end of the episode, we will have the Halloween party. Quinn will try to sell drugs on it. If MC is in good terms with her, she may want to make a deal with him. Otherwise, she will crawl back to Tommy. Sage might learn some things about Quinn’s dealings.

If MC is on the M&J relationship and also with Sage, there will be friction about it on the party.

Maya will be less depressed this episode and MC will get his birthday present from M&J. Possibly at or after the Halloween party. (threesome in the HOT uniforms)

There will be some kind of backlash about the Jade video. I think Burk will bring it up next time Jade is threatening him with divorce.

The episode end cliffhanger will be related to Bella. We will find something out about (or meet?) James.


See you guys in a few months.

 

[meidesaitaisi]

Does this game have a cheat mod?

 

[Daver]

Does this game have a cheat mod?

yes it does, you could use unren to change the value of variables or using Scrappy mode

 

[UNNI_FIED]

Does this game have a cheat mod?

I don't see a lot of reason to why we need a cheat. Do you you want to get with all the females and go no-consequences mode ?

 

[meidesaitaisi]

I love this game so I need it.Everyone has his own choice.

 

[Daver]

I don't see a lot of reason to why we need a cheat. Do you you want to get with all the females and go no-consequences mode ?

it's an alternative to play a game for each girl

 

[PervySageKem]

Can anyone tell me if there is a true Harem route?

 

[AchedCroissant]

Can anyone tell me if there is a true Harem route?

Nope

 

[PervySageKem]

Nope

OK, good to know from the start. I only played some of the earlier episodes, so I know the characters. Could you tell me what type of pairings there can be? Especially regarding Sage (the redhead).

 

[Daver]

Can anyone tell me if there is a true Harem route?

moreover it seems starting from now you should pay attention to not lose any girls