VN Ren'Py Being a DIK [v0.10.1] [DrPinkCake]

[goldenrule91]

An interesting notion for sure, but I'm afraid I can't agree.

First off, I've never believed Quinn is actually letting Riona smoke for free. I think that was just a lie to justify her behavior to Tommy; you'll note she explicitly asks Tommy not to corroborate the story. If Riona really was smoking off the books there'd be no reason to pretend the shortfall was unexplained back when we first learned about it. After all, if Quinn just wanted to motivate Riona, surely reminding her of her role in the problem would be more effective than slapping her.

Secondly, I can't help but notice that Quinn didn't slap Mona when she lost her nerve. Mona was fighting alongside Quinn too (over Riona's objection no less!), and she was far less calm than Riona. So why did Riona need such drastic action while Mona just got a sob speech and some blackmail?

To me, the key distinction is that Riona flat out defied Quinn whereas Mona was in full obsequious mode. As I said above, Quinn reacts extremely badly to criticism, so I think Quinn just lost her temper when Riona called her a fucking idiot. Mona, despite being physically incapable of keeping any secret, kept apologizing to Quinn and agreeing to do as Quinn asked, so Quinn never felt the need to lash out at her. That's my take, anyway.

As for Quinn really caring about Riona... maybe? The problem is that Quinn is such a self-centered person that it's difficult to tell genuine affection for Riona as a person apart from affection for what Riona represents as a tool. By in large Quinn has no use for Riona's advise and ignored Riona's concerns about being followed; the one time she did listen to Riona was after Riona threatened to quit. I don't think it's fair to say unequivocally that Quinn doesn't care about Riona as a person because we've never seen a situation where Quinn had to deal Riona as a person and not as a tool. But I do feel that every time we've seen Quinn deal with Riona, Quinn's first and foremost concern has always been about herself and not Riona.

To me, that's a far cry from affection. YMMV of course, but I think people looking for hidden depths in Quinn are mistaking potential for reality. Quinn may change someday, but for now I think she is precisely what she appears to be on the surface.

I appreciate you keeping the possibility in your mind that Quinn could possibly maybe sort of care about another human being at least I know it's not easy to think that, given how she's portrayed in the story, but all I'm trying to say is that she has her reasons for how she is. Could she do a lot of things, maybe most things, differently and better? For sure. Could she treat Riona better? Undoubtedly. But she has her reasons for how she is, that's all I want to open people to the possibility of. I genuinely think that people are missing out on a great character and a large part of the story by taking Quinn at face value and not delving deeper into her motivations. You're not one of those people, I know, and it's certainly reasonable to adopt the viewpoint you do on Quinn after taking everything into account. At the end of the day, I view Quinn as a sympathetic figure due to her upbringing, and I contextualize her actions on that basis. You could just as easily view Quinn as a malevolent figure and be just as correct. But I want people to look at both viewpoints on her and decide which they agree with more, not have a knee-jerk reaction to some of things she does and form a shallow view.

Anyway, with all that out of the way, let me address some of your specific points in case you're interested

As far as Quinn lying to Tommy about Riona smoking for free, I don't really buy it. Your reasoning is compelling, but Quinn has treated Tommy brutally before, and I don't see why she'd start making excuses to him. Her not wanting Tommy to corroborate the story with Riona could just as easily come from a place of caring, as Quinn doesn't want Tommy to confront Riona and is taking the business side of things solely upon herself. I also don't really buy the argument that Quinn could have simply brought up the fact that Riona contributed to the hole they're in to motivate her instead of slapping her if it were true that Riona was in fact smoking for free. We really don't know the circumstances here, it could easily be true that Riona's smoking for free contributed to the hole, but that Quinn also contributed to it in her own way and so she didn't really have the moral high-ground to bring that up as an argument.

That brings us to Quinn's 'motivational' style differences. Quinn slaps Riona but not Mona in similar situations. Now, there are a lot of things I could say here, and like you say, YMMV on them. I could make the argument, which I believe, that Quinn and Riona are almost as close as sisters, and sisters sometimes slap each other. It really does happen, and those slaps don't come from a place of malice, and they don't even come from being at a stage where only a slap would work, sometimes - between very close people, siblings and such - it's just used as a wakeup call. I'm much more likely to punch my brother if he's doing some dumb shit than I am to punch a stranger doing the same dumb shit, and the intent behind my doing so would be drastically different as well. Now, whether you subscribe to that line of reasoning really does depend on how you're contextualizing Quinn's actions. If you subscribe to what I wrote in my initial post, it makes sense why she would slap Riona - in short, to wake her up, remind her of what's at stake, and to ultimately protect her. If you don't subscribe to it, it was just a mean and unnecessary thing to do, and maybe she even regretted it and that's why she didn't do the same to Mona, but we don't know. I don't think we can fairly look at the slap in a vacuum and point to it as a sign that Quinn doesn't care about Riona though, there are plenty of reasons why she might have done that, some of them reasonable and some of them not.

The wider circumstances of Quinn's and Riona's relationship are not known. We don't know the first thing about when it started, how it started, what their specific connections are to the drugs, etc. So, like you say, it's difficult to know if Quinn has genuine affection for Riona as a person because of the situation they find themselves in. Quinn's back is up against the wall, and we only have the barest idea why, so it's really difficult to know what's reasonable and what's not, where the line is in their friendship and what would cross it. Quinn is pimping Riona out. Quinn is slapping her. Quinn is talking down to her and ignoring her. And Riona is taking it all. Does that hint at how dire the situation really is? Or is Riona just extremely submissive, or does she have a battered mindset, or is she reliant upon Quinn for her drug connections, or does she think or know that Quinn has her best interests in mind? If circumstances were different, would they even be as close as they are? No one knows that except for DPC.

The one other thing you said that I'd heavily push back on, in fairness, is that from my point of view, I don't think Quinn's first and foremost concern is herself. Again, we don't know the circumstances of Quinn and Riona's relationship, for all we know Quinn could have been protecting Riona for a long time, or she could have been abusing and ignoring her for a long time, but we don't know. From what we've seen, though, I genuinely believe that Quinn is trying to protect herself and Riona in a very harsh way because of her upbringing as I outlined in my prior post. Remember, Quinn is pimping herself out as well, you think she wants to do that? I don't think she does. I don't think she wants to pimp out her girls to older men, I think something is happening with Burke that's forcing her into that situation. And as far as we know, she's protected herself and Riona from having to do that, although I suspect Quinn has probably had to do some sexual favors for Burke or someone else in the past, but I hope I'm wrong. As near as I can tell, Quinn cares primarily about herself, yes, and Riona. I don't think Quinn would ever truly betray or hurt Riona, in fact I somehow suspect a lot of things she's doing to keep afloat is connected to protecting Riona from the fallout with the drugs and prostitution. Not to cast Quinn in too much of a benevolent light - obviously Quinn is looking out for number 1, and she does treat Riona like shit, but it's to keep both of them safe, not just herself. And that dynamic between Quinn and Riona is why I believe that Riona is going to be the target of the big 'burning house' moment of this game - everyone in-game, and out of the game, likes Riona, and Riona being hurt would completely crush Quinn and make her doubt whether what she's doing is worth it. I hope I'm wrong about that as well.

You should know better than to reply to me though bro cuz you know I can only write in essay form

 

[Ilhares]

I remember i had a crush on Ygritte of Game of Thrones until someone point to me it was a boy. And she had a point, still a beautifull girl.

Wait, what? Ygritte was not a boy. The actress and character are both biologically female. That's why it was considered a breaking of Jon Snow's vows to fool around with her (because when you take The Black you forsake all women). Harrington married her and they've a natural child together.

Something, somewhere, must have gotten lost in translation.

 

[EfontMan]

I think he's just saying the chick looks kinda like a dude. And he's not wrong.

 

[Heycock]

Wait, what? Ygritte was not a boy. The actress and character are both biologically female. That's why it was considered a breaking of Jon Snow's vows to fool around with her (because when you take The Black you forsake all women). Harrington married her and they've a natural child together.

Something, somewhere, must have gotten lost in translation.

The comment was a joke, it meant that she look like a boy. After all we all saw her naked and she is defenetely not a boy. But her face has tipical masculine features.

 

[Deleted member 1784858]

Well, seems that you really thought about this issue. It's just that your conclusion is contra-intuitive. That doesnt mean is wrong of course. I thought that soft faces were a tipical femenine trait.
But then again, if the issue is comforting womans about beauty... any girl with make up and a nice dress is model material. I remember i had a crush on Ygritte of Game of Thrones until someone point to me it was a boy. And she had a point, still a beautifull girl.

You are right, it is counter-intuitive which makes it weird that people would adopt it as their standard even going so far as to paint their faces to match the standard they have set for themselves. I don't believe in right or wrong either, everybody thinks they are the good guy I just have a hard to believing that someone who wouldn't take the time to correct behaviors that are obviously hurting someone, behaviors that they learned from that someone, and instead that someone chooses to prophet off of the aforementioned maladaptive behaviors... well I really don't think that person cares very much about people and I don't know why people choose to listen to them. That's just my two-cents, have a nice day.

 

[Ilhares]

The comment was a joke, it meant that she look like a boy. After all we all saw her naked and she is defenetely not a boy. But her face has tipical masculine features.

I'll give you that, she's got a mannish jaw and chin. I don't find her particularly appealing physically, but I enjoyed the character.

Almost the opposite problem I had with most of the Swyper girls, now that I think about it. Variety of them were pretty nice looking, but really didn't like them as characters. I'll leave the goblin alone for now, I've been harping on that one a bit much the last couple days.

 

[Simon995]

joining in on the joke~ Jill is probably the MC wearing make up and a wig~

 

[znar25]

I think when MC is in the Josy/Maya path, it makes perfect sense for Josy to work at the Pink Rose. With her personal relationships stable (MC and Maya are good for her), she could earn a lot of money to solve Maya's college money issue. And deep down, Lily could help her out with how to do well at the Pink Rose and in return, Lily becomes a member of their library study group.
All problems solved in a perfect world.

 

[Fatalmasterpiece]

Jill is not ugly, Jill's problem is that DPC sometimes seems to do everything so fast that he doesn't pay attention to the details.

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Pay attention to details? You realize this is the guy who named the school "Burgermeister and Royce" because the stock varsity jacket model comes premade with the letters "BR" on it?
DPK is a genius and his work is amazing but if there is a weakness to BaDik it's that there are so many straight up, vanilla, out of the box assets being used. Granted he puts it all together in ways that most people wouldn't think of. It's like someone making a complex, delicious feast using only basic, cheap ingredients from Walmart.

 

[znar25]

Tybalt finally won her over huh? Good for him.

Someone photoshop a plate of watermelon in the image.

 

[palmtrees89]

Pay attention to details? You realize this is the guy who named the school "Burgermeister and Royce" because the stock varsity jacket model comes premade with the letters "RR" on it?
DPK is a genius and his work is amazing but if there is a weakness to BaDik it's that there are so many straight up, vanilla, out of the box assets being used. Granted he puts it all together in ways that most people wouldn't think of. It's like someone making a complex, delicious feast using only basic, cheap ingredients from Walmart.

And that's perfectly fine with me. If you want more details and polished renders, a game like AWAM might be more to your liking, unless you don't want to wait until the year 2050 for a possibly finished game. Your post sounds like you're trying to argue with AchedCroissant when he literally stated that DPC doesn't waste as much time on details.

The benefit of DPC's way, in my opinion, is content. Lots of content. What we get here every couple months takes other certain developers several years. Some of those developers will never even finish their games, while DPC provides us with actual finished products. DPC also makes up for slightly less render quality with great writing, story, humour, music, tons of bonus content and features no other community can even dream of. So yeah, your Walmart reference might actually make sense, even though it sounds kind of insulting.

 

[Deleted member 1784858]

I appreciate you keeping the possibility in your mind that Quinn could possibly maybe sort of care about another human being at least I know it's not easy to think that, given how she's portrayed in the story, but all I'm trying to say is that she has her reasons for how she is. Could she do a lot of things, maybe most things, differently and better? For sure. Could she treat Riona better? Undoubtedly. But she has her reasons for how she is, that's all I want to open people to the possibility of. I genuinely think that people are missing out on a great character and a large part of the story by taking Quinn at face value and not delving deeper into her motivations. You're not one of those people, I know, and it's certainly reasonable to adopt the viewpoint you do on Quinn after taking everything into account. At the end of the day, I view Quinn as a sympathetic figure due to her upbringing, and I contextualize her actions on that basis. You could just as easily view Quinn as a malevolent figure and be just as correct. But I want people to look at both viewpoints on her and decide which they agree with more, not have a knee-jerk reaction to some of things she does and form a shallow view.

Anyway, with all that out of the way, let me address some of your specific points in case you're interested

As far as Quinn lying to Tommy about Riona smoking for free, I don't really buy it. Your reasoning is compelling, but Quinn has treated Tommy brutally before, and I don't see why she'd start making excuses to him. Her not wanting Tommy to corroborate the story with Riona could just as easily come from a place of caring, as Quinn doesn't want Tommy to confront Riona and is taking the business side of things solely upon herself. I also don't really buy the argument that Quinn could have simply brought up the fact that Riona contributed to the hole they're in to motivate her instead of slapping her if it were true that Riona was in fact smoking for free. We really don't know the circumstances here, it could easily be true that Riona's smoking for free contributed to the hole, but that Quinn also contributed to it in her own way and so she didn't really have the moral high-ground to bring that up as an argument.

That brings us to Quinn's 'motivational' style differences. Quinn slaps Riona but not Mona in similar situations. Now, there are a lot of things I could say here, and like you say, YMMV on them. I could make the argument, which I believe, that Quinn and Riona are almost as close as sisters, and sisters sometimes slap each other. It really does happen, and those slaps don't come from a place of malice, and they don't even come from being at a stage where only a slap would work, sometimes - between very close people, siblings and such - it's just used as a wakeup call. I'm much more likely to punch my brother if he's doing some dumb shit than I am to punch a stranger doing the same dumb shit, and the intent behind my doing so would be drastically different as well. Now, whether you subscribe to that line of reasoning really does depend on how you're contextualizing Quinn's actions. If you subscribe to what I wrote in my initial post, it makes sense why she would slap Riona - in short, to wake her up, remind her of what's at stake, and to ultimately protect her. If you don't subscribe to it, it was just a mean and unnecessary thing to do, and maybe she even regretted it and that's why she didn't do the same to Mona, but we don't know. I don't think we can fairly look at the slap in a vacuum and point to it as a sign that Quinn doesn't care about Riona though, there are plenty of reasons why she might have done that, some of them reasonable and some of them not.

The wider circumstances of Quinn's and Riona's relationship are not known. We don't know the first thing about when it started, how it started, what their specific connections are to the drugs, etc. So, like you say, it's difficult to know if Quinn has genuine affection for Riona as a person because of the situation they find themselves in. Quinn's back is up against the wall, and we only have the barest idea why, so it's really difficult to know what's reasonable and what's not, where the line is in their friendship and what would cross it. Quinn is pimping Riona out. Quinn is slapping her. Quinn is talking down to her and ignoring her. And Riona is taking it all. Does that hint at how dire the situation really is? Or is Riona just extremely submissive, or does she have a battered mindset, or is she reliant upon Quinn for her drug connections, or does she think or know that Quinn has her best interests in mind? If circumstances were different, would they even be as close as they are? No one knows that except for DPC.

The one other thing you said that I'd heavily push back on, in fairness, is that from my point of view, I don't think Quinn's first and foremost concern is herself. Again, we don't know the circumstances of Quinn and Riona's relationship, for all we know Quinn could have been protecting Riona for a long time, or she could have been abusing and ignoring her for a long time, but we don't know. From what we've seen, though, I genuinely believe that Quinn is trying to protect herself and Riona in a very harsh way because of her upbringing as I outlined in my prior post. Remember, Quinn is pimping herself out as well, you think she wants to do that? I don't think she does. I don't think she wants to pimp out her girls to older men, I think something is happening with Burke that's forcing her into that situation. And as far as we know, she's protected herself and Riona from having to do that, although I suspect Quinn has probably had to do some sexual favors for Burke or someone else in the past, but I hope I'm wrong. As near as I can tell, Quinn cares primarily about herself, yes, and Riona. I don't think Quinn would ever truly betray or hurt Riona, in fact I somehow suspect a lot of things she's doing to keep afloat is connected to protecting Riona from the fallout with the drugs and prostitution. Not to cast Quinn in too much of a benevolent light - obviously Quinn is looking out for number 1, and she does treat Riona like shit, but it's to keep both of them safe, not just herself. And that dynamic between Quinn and Riona is why I believe that Riona is going to be the target of the big 'burning house' moment of this game - everyone in-game, and out of the game, likes Riona, and Riona being hurt would completely crush Quinn and make her doubt whether what she's doing is worth it. I hope I'm wrong about that as well.

You should know better than to reply to me though bro cuz you know I can only write in essay form

I think she is in over her head and Riona's innocence appeals to Quinn because she doesn't know who she can trust and was forced to grow up very fast so she is struggling to empathize because she had to shut that off in order to survive blah blah blah Riona = Ryona or japanese porn focusing on violence towards women. Jade is Jaded lol you get it. I think Quinn is a huge softy and Riona represents her inner child/lost childhood or some shit which is why she is so mean to her one minute and sweet on her the next. Easily one of the most interesting characters in this game for me. You'd be surprised what people will do when their backs against the wall... Is the long very disorganized way of saying that I agree with you. It takes a very kind person to show sympathy for the devil.

 

[Warscared]

The comment was a joke, it meant that she look like a boy. After all we all saw her naked and she is defenetely not a boy. But her face has tipical masculine features.

I'll give you that, she's got a mannish jaw and chin. I don't find her particularly appealing physically, but I enjoyed the character.

that means excessive testosterone in the womb that tends to create girls with a healthy sexual drive unlike the average harpy who have a sex drive in average 1/7 of a regular man (not the current ones who are almost testosterone free, except for their appendix we can hardly call them men!)

furthermore that is normally noticeable in the chin area of the face! i just use it as an indicator on how sexually taxing a girl will be!

if you want further biological links beteween genetic points and women sexuallity girls with a more masculine voice tend to be up for anal far more easily then "averaged voice girls"!

just some pointers for ya!

I think when MC is in the Josy/Maya path, it makes perfect sense for Josy to work at the Pink Rose. With her personal relationships stable (MC and Maya are good for her), she could earn a lot of money to solve Maya's college money issue. And deep down, Lily could help her out with how to do well at the Pink Rose and in return, Lily becomes a member of their library study group.
All problems solved in a perfect world.

really dude? your entire story brought you to a study group instead of a foursome? i think you are in the wrong place...

 

[goldenrule91]

I think she is in over her head and Riona's innocence appeals to Quinn because she doesn't know who she can trust and was forced to grow up very fast so she is struggling to empathize because she had to shut that off in order to survive blah blah blah Riona = Ryona or japanese porn focusing on violence towards women. Jade is Jaded lol you get it. I think Quinn is a huge softy and Riona represents her inner child/lost childhood or some shit which is why she is so mean to her one minute and sweet on her the next. Easily one of the most interesting characters in this game for me. You'd be surprised what people will do when their backs against the wall... Is the long very disorganized way of saying that I agree with you. It takes a very kind person to show sympathy for the devil.

You're making me very nervous with that Riona = Ryona connection I think you're right there with a lot of what you said. I've personally always theorized that Riona was some kind of abuse victim and Quinn is trying to protect her for that, but like I said in my essay post it's so hard to even speculate when we don't know the first thing about their relationship. The fact that Riona is using drugs, the scene where she's trying to calm down with her headphones in the yard, the overly submissive attitude, the fact that she's hyper-sexual but can't achieve orgasm through sex... I'm not an expert, but I suspect she's been the victim of sexual abuse in the past. That's just my general feeling, and I think she's abusing drugs to manage her anxiety and that's why Quinn is letting her smoke for free. But I could be totally wrong about all of that and I've typed enough for today I think

 

[John Ness]

Jill is not ugly, she is of the northern European type that I prefer the most. But this is not her main advantage, but her personality. Kind, honest, straightforward, rare quality, especially for a woman and even a rich one.

 

[crunchycake]

Just want to point out that I think Elona has a more "boylish" face then other chick in this game..... I think...

But damn, her loyalty to John boy and her free spirit are AWESOME.

 

[lipe2410]

I think when MC is in the Josy/Maya path, it makes perfect sense for Josy to work at the Pink Rose. With her personal relationships stable (MC and Maya are good for her), she could earn a lot of money to solve Maya's college money issue. And deep down, Lily could help her out with how to do well at the Pink Rose and in return, Lily becomes a member of their library study group.
All problems solved in a perfect world.

Good, but i change Lilly to Nicole teaching Josy (and Maya) the art of pole/lap/strip dance because the only thing i want more than the threesome with the two girls that i love with all my heart is a private show and a foursome with the three girls that i love with all my heart.

 

[Warscared]

You're making me very nervous with that Riona = Ryona connection I think you're right there with a lot of what you said. I've personally always theorized that Riona was some kind of abuse victim and Quinn is trying to protect her for that, but like I said in my essay post it's so hard to even speculate when we don't know the first thing about their relationship. The fact that Riona is using drugs, the scene where she's trying to calm down with her headphones in the yard, the overly submissive attitude, the fact that she's hyper-sexual but can't achieve orgasm through sex... I'm not an expert, but I suspect she's been the victim of sexual abuse in the past. That's just my general feeling, and I think she's abusing drugs to manage her anxiety and that's why Quinn is letting her smoke for free. But I could be totally wrong about all of that and I've typed enough for today I think

does... does that... does that mean.... does that mean?

OH, YESSSSSSSSS daddies gonna get a Butt Sub Slut a bedroom slave! freaking hell yes yes yes yes yes bitch!

so could the people putting surveillance on her be her former task master? so gonna beat the shit out of the asshole and make Ryona cum from abuse!

 

[Wonder Wolf]

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[hakuna-matata]

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