VN Ren'Py Being a DIK [v0.10.1] [DrPinkCake]

[shazba]

Jill doesn't have a secret endgame, other than making the MC her subservient object of affection. Everything she has done so far makes it look like she'll be the domineering one in the relationship, except in the bedroom (so far). What you want or like doesn't matter unless it's what she wants/likes. The only person important to Jill is Jill. (and maybe Bella)

Sadly that does seem to be the case. She used to be my go-to in this one but the more I saw of the whole situation the more I was put off by it. It's Josy for the win now. Even with the extra baggage I still think she loves the MC the most.

I don't think DPC intended for her to be interpreted as such.

Sure we love to hate on her face, and she's stubborn when she wants to help (like my mother-in-law who won't take no for an answer when she's offered you something, "No, I don't want another cup of team, I've had 5 already, I'm not being polite, I just don't want another fucking cup!")... ahem... anyway, I think she comes across as a typically kind person, a little simple, but definitely kind.

I've ranted about the way she dumps the mc before (that she actually dumps him is fine, just doing it in public the way she does is insensitive, but she'd finally stood up to Tybalt and wasn't particularly in her usual frame of mind), but while the catalyst that sends us down that path of rejection is not going on the picnic, the picnic was a pivotal moment in her story.

At the picnic, other than just more one-on-one bonding between the two, Jill gets to air the situation about Tybalt's blackmail, and the mc get to respond, passionately: There's the rain, the making out, the jug-fondling... it was all very significant.

If you miss the picnic, Jill just tells the mc in the halls of the college, it's all rather sterile, and their relationship doesn't progress. That then snowballs into other events not happening (the morning run, the date with friends, the hot sex...)

It's actually OK that she decided to back out.

But if you look at her track record, she does care about others:

• When they first meet, she helps him up seeing he was the victim of bullying.
• We know she's working on a campaign to help people (don't know if it's about bullying or drugs or something like that, but it's obviously meant to help)
• She's friendly and offers to show Josy around when she finds out she missed orientation
• She is genuinely concerned for the mc when he's beat up by Chad, that's why she keeps suggesting the hospital (sure she doesn't get that not everyone can afford hospital fees)
• She tries only to speak kindly to people, and give them the benefit of the doubt (hence why it take her so long to tell Tybalt to fuck off)
• She only has good intentions when she sets up the meet with the counsellors after the Chad fight. Sure if she checked with the mc first he would have explained it wasn't a good idea, except it actually was a good idea. The Alphas have to leave him alone, and if he asks for leniency on Chad, it clears the air on those two. And even if that ultimately lead to their mansion being trashed, the DIKs have only grown because of it.
• She organised a lovely impromptu picnic for him on his birthday - sure we all hate that picnic, but for unrelated reasons.
• She feels genuine sadness for the mc when she hears the bittersweet story of his birthday.
• She was aware of his potential discomfort when meeting her friends and she did what she could to help.
• She's really concerned for Cathy after the Cathy Cluck event.

I'm not sure where the idea that she's domineering comes from:

• She finally had enough at the restaurant and blew up, but that's about the only time we've seen her like that.
• She is stubborn about the hospital because she thinks it's serious that the mc is woozy after being hit. But she backs down and respects the mc's wishes in the end.
• She was the one to plan the tennis date, but it was the mc that asked to go out with her in the first place.
• She did organise the meeting with the counsellors, but bullying is something she takes very seriously
• It was the mc's own determination that had him climbing her balcony to play music for her
• Same as it was the mc climbing her balcony to make out with her the night of Jill's solo performance (and I'm not talking about the piano solo )
• On a number of occasions the mc initiated making out with her. The first time she initiated a kiss (other than the good night cheek peck) was on Bella's couch, but it was the mc that turned it into something more.
• She did stop his advances from going too far, and she has every right to. That'll be less likely now.
• She is quite introspective and possibly even suffers low self esteem, even when stopping the mc's advances she second guesses herself.
• She did organise the picnic, but when the mc turned her down, she didn't make a scene or make him feel guilty. She amicably accepted it. And while it was the catalyst to end their relationship, it's not like she thought, "You turned me down?! You're dumped!" Shit just turned out that way. Sometimes that's just how the cookie crumbles.
• When it came to sex, she initiated it, but only because it was clear to her that the mc had already initiated it ages ago, he was just waiting for her to be ready, but once it began, he drove the whole thing.
• She's upset (not mad) as she starts to feel jealousy when the truth about the mc's philandering hits her.
• She graciously wins or loses the tennis games. While she plays hard, it's not about the winning for her.

So to say she wants a subservient guy doesn't ring true to me.

I actually think their relationship is quite healthy. Each has their own boundaries (ok, let's be realistic, the mc has no fucking boundaries whatsoever , unless Jill has a strap-on under her bed ), let me rephrase that, they respect each other's boundaries. They both put in somewhat equal effort into the relationship. They do care about each other. It's not just about sex. They each make time for each other.

To me, she is a very beautiful girl, with a fantastic body and a kind, gentle personality, who has a fucked up smile and is very protective of her friends, who is a little naïve when it comes to guys and relationships.

That's not to say that she wouldn't drive you crazy with all her destiny shit, and stubborn do-gooders can be a pain in the ass!

 

[Green Isosceles]

In other words, Jill is lawful stupid. Not everyone can handle that and that's okay.

 

[Skeltom]

I don't think DPC intended for her to be interpreted as such.

Sure we love to hate on her face, and she's stubborn when she wants to help (like my mother-in-law who won't take no for an answer when she's offered you something, "No, I don't want another cup of team, I've had 5 already, I'm not being polite, I just don't want another fucking cup!")... ahem... anyway, I think she comes across as a typically kind person, a little simple, but definitely kind.

I've ranted about the way she dumps the mc before (that she actually dumps him is fine, just doing it in public the way she does is a insensitive, but she'd finally stood up to Tybalt and wasn't particularly in her usual frame of mind), but while the catalyst that sends us down that path of rejection is not going on the picnic, the picnic was a pivotal moment in her story.

At the picnic, other than just more one-on-one bonding between the two, Jill gets to air the situation about Tybalt's blackmail, and the mc get to respond, passionately: There's the rain, the making out, the jug-fondling... it was all very seminal.

If you miss the picnic, Jill just tells the mc in the halls of the college, it's all rather sterile, and their relationship doesn't progress. That then snowballs into other events not happening (the morning run, the date with friends, the hot sex...)

It's actually OK that she decided to back out.

But if you look at her track record, she does care about others:

• When they first meet, she helps him up seeing he was the victim of bullying.
• We know she's working on a campaign to help people (don't know if it's about bullying or drugs or something like that, but it's obviously meant to help)
• She's friendly and offers to show Josy around when she finds out she missed orientation
• She is genuinely concerned for the mc when he's beat up by Chad, that's why she keeps suggesting the hospital (sure she doesn't get that not everyone can afford hospital fees)
• She tries only to speak kindly to people, and give them the benefit of the doubt (hence why it take her so long to tell Tybalt to fuck off)
• She only has good intentions when she sets up the meet with the counsellors after the Chad fight. Sure if she checked with the mc first he would have explained it wasn't a good idea, except it actually was a good idea. The Alphas have to leave him alone, and if he asks for leniency on Chad, it clears the air on those two. And even if that ultimately lead to their mansion being trashed, the DIKs have only grown because of it.
• She organised a lovely impromptu picnic for him on his birthday - sure we all hate that picnic, but for unrelated reasons.
• She feels genuine sadness for the mc when she hears the bittersweet story of his birthday.
• She was aware of his potential discomfort when meeting her friends and she did what she could to help.
• She's really concerned for Cathy after the Cathy Cluck event.

I'm not sure where the idea that she's domineering comes from:

• She finally had enough at the restaurant and blew up, but that's about the only time we've seen her like that.
• She is stubborn about the hospital because she thinks it's serious that the mc is woozy after being hit. But she backs down and respects the mc's wishes in the end.
• She was the one to plan the tennis date, but it was the mc that asked to go out with her in the first place.
• She did organise the meeting with the counsellors, but bullying is something she takes very seriously
• It was the mc's own determination that had him climbing her balcony to play music for her
• Same as it was the mc climbing her balcony to make out with her the night of Jill's solo performance (and I'm not talking about the piano solo )
• On a number of occasions the mc initiated making out with her. The first time she initiated a kiss (other than the good night cheek peck) was on Bella's couch, but it was the mc that turned it into something more.
• She did stop his advances from going too far, and she has every right to. That'll be less likely now.
• She is quite introspective and possibly even suffers low self esteem, even when stopping the mc's advances she second guesses herself.
• She did organise the picnic, but when the mc turned her down, she didn't make a scene or make him feel guilty. She amicably accepted it. And while it was the catalyst to end their relationship, it's not like she thought, "You turned me down?! You're dumped!" Shit just turned out that way. Sometimes that's just how the cookie crumbles.
• When it came to sex, she initiated it, but only because it was clear to her that the mc had already initiated it ages ago, he was just waiting for her to be ready, but once it began, he drove the whole thing.
• She's upset (not mad) as she starts to feel jealousy when the truth about the mc's philandering hits her.
• She graciously wins or loses the tennis games. While she plays hard, it's not about the winning for her.

So to say she wants a subservient guy doesn't ring true to me.

I actually think their relationship is quite healthy. Each has their own boundaries (ok, let's be realistic, the mc has no fucking boundaries whatsoever , unless Jill has a strap-on under her bed ), let me rephrase that, they respect each other's boundaries. They both put in somewhat equal effort into the relationship. They do care about each other. It's not just about sex. They each make time for each other.

To me, she is a very beautiful girl, with a fantastic body and a kind, gentle personality, who has a fucked up smile and is very protective of her friends, who is a little naïve when it comes to guys and relationships.

That's not to say that she wouldn't drive you crazy with all her destiny shit, and stubborn do-gooders can be a pain in the ass!

There is no denying that she is kind, almost to much for her own good a times. But on the other hand I can't help but think she is also incredibly selfish as well. She doesn't have to make a big scene, she is still secretly shutting the other person out. It's worse if you ask me because the MC thinks everything is fine. As for the picnic being pivotal sure, but she just springs it on the MC and expects him to just go with her. If you don't she basically says "Fuck it. It's not meant to be so why try at all?".

 

[sixart]

I don't think DPC intended for her to be interpreted as such.

Sure we love to hate on her face, and she's stubborn when she wants to help (like my mother-in-law who won't take no for an answer when she's offered you something, "No, I don't want another cup of team, I've had 5 already, I'm not being polite, I just don't want another fucking cup!")... ahem... anyway, I think she comes across as a typically kind person, a little simple, but definitely kind.

I've ranted about the way she dumps the mc before (that she actually dumps him is fine, just doing it in public the way she does is insensitive, but she'd finally stood up to Tybalt and wasn't particularly in her usual frame of mind), but while the catalyst that sends us down that path of rejection is not going on the picnic, the picnic was a pivotal moment in her story.

At the picnic, other than just more one-on-one bonding between the two, Jill gets to air the situation about Tybalt's blackmail, and the mc get to respond, passionately: There's the rain, the making out, the jug-fondling... it was all very significant.

If you miss the picnic, Jill just tells the mc in the halls of the college, it's all rather sterile, and their relationship doesn't progress. That then snowballs into other events not happening (the morning run, the date with friends, the hot sex...)

It's actually OK that she decided to back out.

But if you look at her track record, she does care about others:

• When they first meet, she helps him up seeing he was the victim of bullying.
• We know she's working on a campaign to help people (don't know if it's about bullying or drugs or something like that, but it's obviously meant to help)
• She's friendly and offers to show Josy around when she finds out she missed orientation
• She is genuinely concerned for the mc when he's beat up by Chad, that's why she keeps suggesting the hospital (sure she doesn't get that not everyone can afford hospital fees)
• She tries only to speak kindly to people, and give them the benefit of the doubt (hence why it take her so long to tell Tybalt to fuck off)
• She only has good intentions when she sets up the meet with the counsellors after the Chad fight. Sure if she checked with the mc first he would have explained it wasn't a good idea, except it actually was a good idea. The Alphas have to leave him alone, and if he asks for leniency on Chad, it clears the air on those two. And even if that ultimately lead to their mansion being trashed, the DIKs have only grown because of it.
• She organised a lovely impromptu picnic for him on his birthday - sure we all hate that picnic, but for unrelated reasons.
• She feels genuine sadness for the mc when she hears the bittersweet story of his birthday.
• She was aware of his potential discomfort when meeting her friends and she did what she could to help.
• She's really concerned for Cathy after the Cathy Cluck event.

I'm not sure where the idea that she's domineering comes from:

• She finally had enough at the restaurant and blew up, but that's about the only time we've seen her like that.
• She is stubborn about the hospital because she thinks it's serious that the mc is woozy after being hit. But she backs down and respects the mc's wishes in the end.
• She was the one to plan the tennis date, but it was the mc that asked to go out with her in the first place.
• She did organise the meeting with the counsellors, but bullying is something she takes very seriously
• It was the mc's own determination that had him climbing her balcony to play music for her
• Same as it was the mc climbing her balcony to make out with her the night of Jill's solo performance (and I'm not talking about the piano solo )
• On a number of occasions the mc initiated making out with her. The first time she initiated a kiss (other than the good night cheek peck) was on Bella's couch, but it was the mc that turned it into something more.
• She did stop his advances from going too far, and she has every right to. That'll be less likely now.
• She is quite introspective and possibly even suffers low self esteem, even when stopping the mc's advances she second guesses herself.
• She did organise the picnic, but when the mc turned her down, she didn't make a scene or make him feel guilty. She amicably accepted it. And while it was the catalyst to end their relationship, it's not like she thought, "You turned me down?! You're dumped!" Shit just turned out that way. Sometimes that's just how the cookie crumbles.
• When it came to sex, she initiated it, but only because it was clear to her that the mc had already initiated it ages ago, he was just waiting for her to be ready, but once it began, he drove the whole thing.
• She's upset (not mad) as she starts to feel jealousy when the truth about the mc's philandering hits her.
• She graciously wins or loses the tennis games. While she plays hard, it's not about the winning for her.

So to say she wants a subservient guy doesn't ring true to me.

I actually think their relationship is quite healthy. Each has their own boundaries (ok, let's be realistic, the mc has no fucking boundaries whatsoever , unless Jill has a strap-on under her bed ), let me rephrase that, they respect each other's boundaries. They both put in somewhat equal effort into the relationship. They do care about each other. It's not just about sex. They each make time for each other.

To me, she is a very beautiful girl, with a fantastic body and a kind, gentle personality, who has a fucked up smile and is very protective of her friends, who is a little naïve when it comes to guys and relationships.

That's not to say that she wouldn't drive you crazy with all her destiny shit, and stubborn do-gooders can be a pain in the ass!

I guess you played the game then... AND you were paying attention... Sadly this all will be just a memory in a few hours and the whole bullshit starts again

 

[Lightaces]

Tomorrow.

(Give or take 12 months or so.)

 

[cryhwks]

In other words, Jill is lawful stupid. Not everyone can handle that and that's okay.

Jill is Lawful Sheltered.

 

[Bendover885]

I don't think DPC intended for her to be interpreted as such.

Sure we love to hate on her face, and she's stubborn when she wants to help (like my mother-in-law who won't take no for an answer when she's offered you something, "No, I don't want another cup of team, I've had 5 already, I'm not being polite, I just don't want another fucking cup!")... ahem... anyway, I think she comes across as a typically kind person, a little simple, but definitely kind.

I've ranted about the way she dumps the mc before (that she actually dumps him is fine, just doing it in public the way she does is insensitive, but she'd finally stood up to Tybalt and wasn't particularly in her usual frame of mind), but while the catalyst that sends us down that path of rejection is not going on the picnic, the picnic was a pivotal moment in her story.

At the picnic, other than just more one-on-one bonding between the two, Jill gets to air the situation about Tybalt's blackmail, and the mc get to respond, passionately: There's the rain, the making out, the jug-fondling... it was all very significant.

If you miss the picnic, Jill just tells the mc in the halls of the college, it's all rather sterile, and their relationship doesn't progress. That then snowballs into other events not happening (the morning run, the date with friends, the hot sex...)

It's actually OK that she decided to back out.

But if you look at her track record, she does care about others:

• When they first meet, she helps him up seeing he was the victim of bullying.
• We know she's working on a campaign to help people (don't know if it's about bullying or drugs or something like that, but it's obviously meant to help)
• She's friendly and offers to show Josy around when she finds out she missed orientation
• She is genuinely concerned for the mc when he's beat up by Chad, that's why she keeps suggesting the hospital (sure she doesn't get that not everyone can afford hospital fees)
• She tries only to speak kindly to people, and give them the benefit of the doubt (hence why it take her so long to tell Tybalt to fuck off)
• She only has good intentions when she sets up the meet with the counsellors after the Chad fight. Sure if she checked with the mc first he would have explained it wasn't a good idea, except it actually was a good idea. The Alphas have to leave him alone, and if he asks for leniency on Chad, it clears the air on those two. And even if that ultimately lead to their mansion being trashed, the DIKs have only grown because of it.
• She organised a lovely impromptu picnic for him on his birthday - sure we all hate that picnic, but for unrelated reasons.
• She feels genuine sadness for the mc when she hears the bittersweet story of his birthday.
• She was aware of his potential discomfort when meeting her friends and she did what she could to help.
• She's really concerned for Cathy after the Cathy Cluck event.

I'm not sure where the idea that she's domineering comes from:

• She finally had enough at the restaurant and blew up, but that's about the only time we've seen her like that.
• She is stubborn about the hospital because she thinks it's serious that the mc is woozy after being hit. But she backs down and respects the mc's wishes in the end.
• She was the one to plan the tennis date, but it was the mc that asked to go out with her in the first place.
• She did organise the meeting with the counsellors, but bullying is something she takes very seriously
• It was the mc's own determination that had him climbing her balcony to play music for her
• Same as it was the mc climbing her balcony to make out with her the night of Jill's solo performance (and I'm not talking about the piano solo )
• On a number of occasions the mc initiated making out with her. The first time she initiated a kiss (other than the good night cheek peck) was on Bella's couch, but it was the mc that turned it into something more.
• She did stop his advances from going too far, and she has every right to. That'll be less likely now.
• She is quite introspective and possibly even suffers low self esteem, even when stopping the mc's advances she second guesses herself.
• She did organise the picnic, but when the mc turned her down, she didn't make a scene or make him feel guilty. She amicably accepted it. And while it was the catalyst to end their relationship, it's not like she thought, "You turned me down?! You're dumped!" Shit just turned out that way. Sometimes that's just how the cookie crumbles.
• When it came to sex, she initiated it, but only because it was clear to her that the mc had already initiated it ages ago, he was just waiting for her to be ready, but once it began, he drove the whole thing.
• She's upset (not mad) as she starts to feel jealousy when the truth about the mc's philandering hits her.
• She graciously wins or loses the tennis games. While she plays hard, it's not about the winning for her.

So to say she wants a subservient guy doesn't ring true to me.

I actually think their relationship is quite healthy. Each has their own boundaries (ok, let's be realistic, the mc has no fucking boundaries whatsoever , unless Jill has a strap-on under her bed ), let me rephrase that, they respect each other's boundaries. They both put in somewhat equal effort into the relationship. They do care about each other. It's not just about sex. They each make time for each other.

To me, she is a very beautiful girl, with a fantastic body and a kind, gentle personality, who has a fucked up smile and is very protective of her friends, who is a little naïve when it comes to guys and relationships.

That's not to say that she wouldn't drive you crazy with all her destiny shit, and stubborn do-gooders can be a pain in the ass!

This. All of this.

 

[shazba]

There is no denying that she is kind, almost to much for her own good a times. But on the other hand I can't help but think she is also incredibly selfish as well. She doesn't have to make a big scene, she is still secretly shutting the other person out. It's worse if you ask me because the MC thinks everything is fine. As for the picnic being pivotal sure, but she just springs it on the MC and expects him to just go with her. If you don't she basically says "Fuck it. It's not meant to be so why try at all?".

I can't remember her exact thoughts if you turn her down, and it is something like, "maybe this is meant to be" or some shit like that, but it's not like she was thinking, "cunt turned me down once, he's fucking done!".

It's more of a case that she has this dilemma with Tybalt, she foolishly agreed to it, when the mc turns her down she figures it's probably for the best.

Remember, she only agreed to the whole Tybalt BS because she was trying to protect the mc from a lawsuit. She's not selfishly ending their relationship because the mc rejected her picnic.

And because things then no longer progress between the two, her feelings for him start to cool off. Maybe the mc is not right for her anyway, but she got swept up in the emotions of it all. It's not like that doesn't happen all the time.

A bit of time apart and Jill realised he really wasn't what she wanted. His armour wasn't shiny enough and his steed looked a little worse for wear. OK, I'm joking about that part, but anyway, when it comes to choosing a partner, you have every right to find the person you want. That doesn't make you an inherently selfish person.

I don't think Jill even intended to dump the mc at that point, but little by little she started having doubts. She wasn't even looking for a boyfriend in the first place. She kinda fell into the relationship with the mc, and before you know it, he's sneaking into her bedroom making moves on her.

She's made it clear where she's coming from too. She's nervous about sex, that was clear from the tennis date, before we even knew she was virgin (yeah, we knew). She knows the mc wants to have sex with her, sure he's said all the right things but it's obvious he's aiming for more than what they currently had; Jill was feeling the pressure but she just wasn't ready for it.

That extra time they had together (the picnic, the lake, meeting her friends) made things gel, and she felt confident she was ready for the next step. You take one element out of that equation and Jill didn't feel right about it.

I don't think anything about any of that was very selfish. We all look out for ourselves and make decisions that often benefit us, but that isn't necessarily selfish. It's when you make decisions and don't give a fuck about others that you cross the line.

But a girl who hurts a guys feelings by ending their relationship when she doesn't think the relationship is right for her, what else should she do? It's when a girl gives a guy another chance, and another chance, and another chance, is when a girl ends up marrying a fuckhead. Sometimes you just gotta go with your gut.

 

[walker188]

I don't think DPC intended for her to be interpreted as such.

Sure we love to hate on her face.......

.......That's not to say that she wouldn't drive you crazy with all her destiny shit, and stubborn do-gooders can be a pain in the ass!

That was a long comment your wrote. Well thought out though.


While I don't think Jill is domineering, and she is kind, she is either stupid or too selfish for me. Childish (inexperienced) people can be selfish. They don't understand that relationships aren't fairy tales, they are compromise and tons of fucking work. Jill literally springs this grand romantic gesture on the MC, but only implies is a casual thing. And when she does tell Fuckface, he explains that he already promised to take care of his sick friend.

Yeah, it sucks for Jill and i'm sure she's disappointed, but MC did nothing wrong here. And if this is a dealbreaker for Jill, her attitude should be a dealbreaker for all of us. If someone is ok with their significant other bailing on taking care of someone they already promised to help, because something more pleasant came up, thats not a good thing. Jill doesn't just accept this, she encourages it. She should be thrilled her BF is a good friend, then show him how she would be a great BEST FRIEND for him to have. Instead, she reacts possesively and when she doesn't get the attention, she dumps him for no reason.

No i don't blame Jill. This actually seems a touch out of character (trash pandas are known for their easygoing nature), I do blame DPC for taking a cheap way out to narrow the paths, and in doing so, writing Jill OOC.

That being said there's nothing we can do about it. And if we take the story as written, Jill doesn't deserve my MC's affections. A secure girlfriend is a good girlfriend. And a secure girlfriend knows i'll put her first and be excited to hang out with her, so if i'm taking care of someone else, its cause that NEEDS to happen.


Don't get me wrong, I'll still bang Jill, unprotected and to the finish, but purely so i can get her pregnant and then dump her at the alter. Cause i'm a good person, and she's a bad person.

 

[ename144]

I can't remember her exact thoughts if you turn her down, and it is something like, "maybe this is meant to be" or some shit like that, but it's not like she was thinking, "cunt turned me down once, he's fucking done!".

It's more of a case that she has this dilemma with Tybalt, she foolishly agreed to it, when the mc turns her down she figures it's probably for the best.

Remember, she only agreed to the whole Tybalt BS because she was trying to protect the mc from a lawsuit. She's not selfishly ending their relationship because the mc rejected her picnic.

And because things then no longer progress between the two, her feelings for him start to cool off. Maybe the mc is not right for her anyway, but she got swept up in the emotions of it all. It's not like that doesn't happen all the time.

A bit of time apart and Jill realised he really wasn't what she wanted. His armour wasn't shiny enough and his steed looked a little worse for wear. OK, I'm joking about that part, but anyway, when it comes to choosing a partner, you have every right to find the person you want. That doesn't make you an inherently selfish person.

I don't think Jill even intended to dump the mc at that point, but little by little she started having doubts. She wasn't even looking for a boyfriend in the first place. She kinda fell into the relationship with the mc, and before you know it, he's sneaking into her bedroom making moves on her.

She's made it clear where she's coming from too. She's nervous about sex, that was clear from the tennis date, before we even knew she was virgin (yeah, we knew). She knows the mc wants to have sex with her, sure he's said all the right things but it's obvious he's aiming for more than what they currently had; Jill was feeling the pressure but she just wasn't ready for it.

That extra time they had together (the picnic, the lake, meeting her friends) made things gel, and she felt confident she was ready for the next step. You take one element out of that equation and Jill didn't feel right about it.

I don't think anything about any of that was very selfish. We all look out for ourselves and make decisions that often benefit us, but that isn't necessarily selfish. It's when you make decisions and don't give a fuck about others that you cross the line.

But a girl who hurts a guys feelings by ending their relationship when she doesn't think the relationship is right for her, what else should she do? It's when a girl gives a guy another chance, and another chance, and another chance, is when a girl ends up marrying a fuckhead. Sometimes you just gotta go with your gut.

I agree that the picnic was a pivotal moment for the Jill path and as such must be required to progress. But that's a purely Doylist explanation. The Watsonian argument - that Jill's passion for the MC waned when she didn't see him thanks to Tybalt's ultimatum - is both unsatisfying and, IMHO, unsupported by what we actually see in game.

It's unsatisfying because there's no logical reason the MC needed to shut Jill down cold turkey when she springs her picnic on him after he already agreed to take care of a sick friend! The only reason Jill can lose interest is because DPC refuses to let us contact her after that choice. Even if we bought into Jill's ludicrous levels of superstition, the MC still knows he owes her a date, yet he sits on his ass ignoring her until Bella drags him back into it (at which point it's too late).

It's unsupported because there's no satisfactory explanation for why Jill goes from 100% chasing the MC to "Then why haven't you [tried to see me] more?" at the drop of a hat. She was willing to defy Tybalt and ask the MC out once, why not do so again when he actually has free time? The only plausible justifications are either she resents the MC going to see a girl instead joining her picnic, or that she's really did think that picnic date was astrologically perfect or some such nonsense. Neither paints Jill in a good light.

I'm sure this wasn't what DPC intended, but sadly it's what we got. DPC really should have had Jill ask the MC to go on a picnic first, THEN have Sage ask for help once he was committed. Now there's at least *a* reason for Jill to interpret missing the picnic as rejecting her (even if her logic is still spotty).

 

[shazba]

That was a long comment your wrote. Well thought out though.


While I don't think Jill is domineering, and she is kind, she is either stupid or too selfish for me. Childish (inexperienced) people can be selfish. They don't understand that relationships aren't fairy tales, they are compromise and tons of fucking work. Jill literally springs this grand romantic gesture on the MC, but only implies is a casual thing. And when she does tell Fuckface, he explains that he already promised to take care of his sick friend.

Yeah, it sucks for Jill and i'm sure she's disappointed, but MC did nothing wrong here. And if this is a dealbreaker for Jill, her attitude should be a dealbreaker for all of us. If someone is ok with their significant other bailing on taking care of someone they already promised to help, because something more pleasant came up, thats not a good thing. Jill doesn't just accept this, she encourages it. She should be thrilled her BF is a good friend, then show him how she would be a great BEST FRIEND for him to have. Instead, she reacts possesively and when she doesn't get the attention, she dumps him for no reason.

No i don't blame Jill. This actually seems a touch out of character (trash pandas are known for their easygoing nature), I do blame DPC for taking a cheap way out to narrow the paths, and in doing so, writing Jill OOC.

That being said there's nothing we can do about it. And if we take the story as written, Jill doesn't deserve my MC's affections. A secure girlfriend is a good girlfriend. And a secure girlfriend knows i'll put her first and be excited to hang out with her, so if i'm taking care of someone else, its cause that NEEDS to happen.


Don't get me wrong, I'll still bang Jill, unprotected and to the finish, but purely so i can get her pregnant and then dump her at the alter. Cause i'm a good person, and she's a bad person.

My last post, the one immediately above your, answers the typical misconception that Jill dumped the mc because he didn't go on the date.

In life, there are many choices, some will open doors, some will close doors, and many of the consequences are indirect.

If the picnic doesn't happen, a number of things don't happen.

• The mc doesn't share the tragedy of his birth with Jill.
• The mc doesn't express his strong resolve in overcoming Tybalt's BS.
• They don't share a romantic encounter in the rain.
• The mc doesn't tell Jill that he's falling for her (going by memory here, I think he says something like that).

And because of that, other things don't happen, an so on.

I agree that the picnic was a pivotal moment for the Jill path and as such must be required to progress. But that's a purely Doylist explanation. The Watsonian argument - that Jill's passion for the MC waned when she didn't see him thanks to Tybalt's ultimatum - is both unsatisfying and, IMHO, unsupported by what we actually see in game.

It's unsatisfying because there's no logical reason the MC needed to shut Jill down cold turkey when she springs her picnic on him after he already agreed to take care of a sick friend! The only reason Jill can lose interest is because DPC refuses to let us contact her after that choice. Even if we bought into Jill's ludicrous levels of superstition, the MC still knows he owes her a date, yet he sets on his ass ignoring her until Bella drags him back into it (at which point it's too late).

It's unsupported because there's no satisfactory explanation for why Jill goes from 100% chasing the MC to "Then why haven't you [tried to see me] more?" at the drop of a hat. She was willing to defy Tybalt and ask the MC out once, why not do so again when he actually has free time? The only plausible justifications are either she resents the MC going to see a girl instead joining her picnic, or that she's really did think that picnic date was astrologically perfect or some such nonsense. Neither paints Jill in a good light.

I'm sure this wasn't what DPC intended, but sadly it's what we got. DPC really should have had Jill ask the MC to go on a picnic first, THEN have Sage ask for help once he was committed. Now there's at least *a* reason for Jill to interpret missing the picnic as rejecting her (even if her logic is still spotty).

I don't think we really need robust, indisputable drive as to why a female character behaves a certain way. You sure as shit don't get that in the real world!

Jill is a "human" character, like so many of the others. With character flaws and not a robotic personality. To complain that she breaks out of character (the mc being a "Chick" guy and looking after a sick friend should be encouraged by Jill) is to paint her as two dimensional. She's not just a "Chick mc" loving girl. She's also superstitious, she's also naïve, she's also confused.

She's allowed to have confused feelings. When the mc turns her down and doesn't make alternative arrangements, she's allowed to feel down (sure the mc could have made alternative arrangements, he could have also dropped in to see Sage after the date too, but that shit didn't happen).

Any girl who makes you an impromptu picnic and get turned down at your doorstep is gonna feel dejected, no matter what your excuse is. People's feelings override their intelligence a lot. That doesn't mean she hates the mc, but it was the difference between wanting to take the step and invite him to meet her friends or not.

Really, when it comes down to what happened with Jill and the picnic, it's a matter of accepting, "Shit happens". And if you can't, then you're behaving the exact same way that you're criticising Jill for behaving.

 

[Arigon]

Jill.....
I never really consider her as a serious alternative.
I mean yeah, I use her to open with Bella... After that though, I am done..

Bella of course....Jade...Sage...Maya and Josy...hell, even Quinn are all better choices for me than Jill.
Besides the Goblin Smile... Besides the Futa...Besides the fact she is my aunt...Besides the fact that she would rather have me go on a picnic than take care of Sage who is sick (though I know she would have gone to help Sage herself if she knew)

I just really don't have the Jill gene...
I don't have blue hair, ex girlfriend never girlfriend Zoey gene either...

Bella though... Axe murderer and all, yeah, every single time. Jade.. pretty much the same... Sage... yeah... Maya and Josy or each separately yep... Quinn... I am new to the Quinn love, but I know she is going to die brutally....
Peace

 

[ename144]

I don't think we really need robust, indisputable drive as to why a female character behaves a certain way. You sure as shit don't get that in the real world!

Jill is a "human" character, like so many of the others. With character flaws and not a robotic personality. To complain that she breaks out of character (the mc being a "Chick" guy and looking after a sick friend should be encouraged by Jill) is to paint her as two dimensional. She's not just a "Chick mc" loving girl. She's also superstitious, she's also naïve, she's also confused.

She's allowed to have confused feelings. When the mc turns her down and doesn't make alternative arrangements, she's allowed to feel down (sure the mc could have made alternative arrangements, he could have also dropped in to see Sage after the date too, but that shit didn't happen).

Any girl who makes you an impromptu picnic and get turned down at your doorstep is gonna feel dejected, no matter what your excuse is. People's feelings override their intelligence a lot. That doesn't mean she hates the mc, but it was the difference between wanting to take the step and invite him to meet her friends or not.

Really, when it comes down to what happened with Jill and the picnic, it's a matter of accepting, "Shit happens". And if you can't, then you're behaving the exact same way that you're criticising Jill for behaving.

First, your argument is ignoring the whole "unsatisfying" half of my complaint. If Jill is hurt when the MC has to turn her down, all the more reason we should be able to fight for her immediately. We shouldn't need to be a bad friend to Sage to advance Jill's path. Game mechanics are more satisfying if they're well integrated into the game world.

Second, I'm still going to have to disagree. People can indeed be confusing and temperamental, but there are limits. DPC had 6 episodes to establish that Jill was flighty and/or superstitious. Somehow, those particular traits never came up until we needed a retroactive justification for DPC's heavy-handed fork.

 

[sixart]

I don't think we really need robust, indisputable drive as to why a female character behaves a certain way. You sure as shit don't get that in the real world!

Really, when it comes down to what happened with Jill and the picnic, it's a matter of accepting, "Shit happens". And if you can't, then you're behaving the exact same way that you're criticising Jill for behaving.

This much would have been plenty... now you try to explain yourself to those that are blind for the real world
I was wrong btw... it didn't lasted for hours

 

[shazba]

First, your argument is ignoring the whole "unsatisfying" half of my complaint. If Jill is hurt when the MC has to turn her down, all the more reason we should be able to fight for her immediately. We shouldn't need to be a bad friend to Sage to advance Jill's path. Game mechanics are more satisfying if they're well integrated into the game world.

Second, I'm still going to have to disagree. People can indeed be confusing and temperamental, but there are limits. DPC had 6 episodes to establish that Jill was flighty and/or superstitious. Somehow, those particular traits never came up until we needed a retroactive justification for DPC's heavy-handed fork.

When it comes to satisfying, there was only one truly satisfying moment in the game:

Spoiler: I love that DPC knew we'd want to be able to immediately replay this scene!

You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.

Regarding Jill's personality, we definitely had enough indication that she hadn't intended to start a relationship with the mc and things were moving too fast for her.

When Bella suggests Jill date the mc, she was kinda shocked at the suggestion. She was just thinking about being his friend.

And every attempt the mc made at progressing things physically was met with resistance. So when a guy keeps pushing things like that, there's only two ways it can go...

But yeah, her "destiny" bullshit was a bit outta nowhere. There was a phone call when she was in the auditorium (can't remember the full context) where she talks about things maybe being for the best, then the same comment when she comes to the DIKs' for the picnic, and the obvious post-coitus destiny bullshit. I can't recall anything else that hinted at it.

 

[felicemastronzo]

My last post, the one immediately above your, answers the typical misconception that Jill dumped the mc because he didn't go on the date.

In life, there are many choices, some will open doors, some will close doors, and many of the consequences are indirect.

If the picnic doesn't happen, a number of things don't happen.

• The mc doesn't share the tragedy of his birth with Jill.
• The mc doesn't express his strong resolve in overcoming Tybalt's BS.
• They don't share a romantic encounter in the rain.
• The mc doesn't tell Jill that he's falling for her (going by memory here, I think he says something like that).

And because of that, other things don't happen, an so on.


I don't think we really need robust, indisputable drive as to why a female character behaves a certain way. You sure as shit don't get that in the real world!

Jill is a "human" character, like so many of the others. With character flaws and not a robotic personality. To complain that she breaks out of character (the mc being a "Chick" guy and looking after a sick friend should be encouraged by Jill) is to paint her as two dimensional. She's not just a "Chick mc" loving girl. She's also superstitious, she's also naïve, she's also confused.

She's allowed to have confused feelings. When the mc turns her down and doesn't make alternative arrangements, she's allowed to feel down (sure the mc could have made alternative arrangements, he could have also dropped in to see Sage after the date too, but that shit didn't happen).

Any girl who makes you an impromptu picnic and get turned down at your doorstep is gonna feel dejected, no matter what your excuse is. People's feelings override their intelligence a lot. That doesn't mean she hates the mc, but it was the difference between wanting to take the step and invite him to meet her friends or not.

Really, when it comes down to what happened with Jill and the picnic, it's a matter of accepting, "Shit happens". And if you can't, then you're behaving the exact same way that you're criticising Jill for behaving.

Shit happens is the perfect lintel for a good story... You take premises, you make choices and in the end "shit happens". Simply perfect.

The picnic is an artifact moment, mc tells about his mother death, he does that with every li, but with Jill it is so important!!!

The meaning of the party is to confuse mc in Order to say him goodbye in the worst possible moment, without asking him anything about Tybalt's accusations, it is destiny, Jill has to help mc, she has not to understand what happened, and mc has to declare his love, without any player's decision, but in the next chapter we can decide that all if that is only a joke

One of the best moment in the game

 

[QuixoteTheDon]

I can't remember her exact thoughts if you turn her down, and it is something like, "maybe this is meant to be" or some shit like that, but it's not like she was thinking, "cunt turned me down once, he's fucking done!".

It's more of a case that she has this dilemma with Tybalt, she foolishly agreed to it, when the mc turns her down she figures it's probably for the best.

Remember, she only agreed to the whole Tybalt BS because she was trying to protect the mc from a lawsuit. She's not selfishly ending their relationship because the mc rejected her picnic.

And because things then no longer progress between the two, her feelings for him start to cool off. Maybe the mc is not right for her anyway, but she got swept up in the emotions of it all. It's not like that doesn't happen all the time.

A bit of time apart and Jill realised he really wasn't what she wanted. His armour wasn't shiny enough and his steed looked a little worse for wear. OK, I'm joking about that part, but anyway, when it comes to choosing a partner, you have every right to find the person you want. That doesn't make you an inherently selfish person.

I don't think Jill even intended to dump the mc at that point, but little by little she started having doubts. She wasn't even looking for a boyfriend in the first place. She kinda fell into the relationship with the mc, and before you know it, he's sneaking into her bedroom making moves on her.

She's made it clear where she's coming from too. She's nervous about sex, that was clear from the tennis date, before we even knew she was virgin (yeah, we knew). She knows the mc wants to have sex with her, sure he's said all the right things but it's obvious he's aiming for more than what they currently had; Jill was feeling the pressure but she just wasn't ready for it.

That extra time they had together (the picnic, the lake, meeting her friends) made things gel, and she felt confident she was ready for the next step. You take one element out of that equation and Jill didn't feel right about it.

I don't think anything about any of that was very selfish. We all look out for ourselves and make decisions that often benefit us, but that isn't necessarily selfish. It's when you make decisions and don't give a fuck about others that you cross the line.

But a girl who hurts a guys feelings by ending their relationship when she doesn't think the relationship is right for her, what else should she do? It's when a girl gives a guy another chance, and another chance, and another chance, is when a girl ends up marrying a fuckhead. Sometimes you just gotta go with your gut.

All true things. But a pusykunt player who tried his best to do all things Jill at that moment thought that the best pusykunt thing he can do is take care of his friend. But ends up with DPC saying: nah, nah no Jill for you! (Insert soup nazi sekinfeld meme here, im on my phone dammit).

Anyway it just a clumsy game mehanic for me. DPC should have added a second variable or something.

 

[Ilhares]

I don't think DPC intended for her to be interpreted as such.

I doubt the creators of the Dukes of Hazzard intended for their show to be retroactively viewed as them being slavery supporters, either - but those people are out there.

However, while I'm willing to accept many different interpretations of actions, this was where you lost me:

let me rephrase that, they respect each other's boundaries.

Like fuck she does. I've ranted on this one repeatedly in the past. It absolutely does not matter how she personally feels about the bullying. If you tell her to keep out of your shit, she does not listen. She ignores your boundaries and your wishes because it's not what Jill wants, which is the only thing that ever matters to Jill. It leaves me doubly puzzled as to why she went ultra-stupid and put up with Tybalt's shit, really.

People doing things for "somebody else's good" are rarely good people. They merely like to justify their disrespect and disregard for the wishes of others - because they can tell themselves they're being good people.

 

[shazba]

Shit happens is the perfect lintel for a good story... You take premises, you make choices and in the end "shit happens". Simply perfect.

The picnic is an artifact moment, mc tells about his mother death, he does that with every li, but with Jill it is so important!!!

The meaning of the party is to confuse mc in Order to say him goodbye in the worst possible moment, without asking him anything about Tybalt's accusations, it is destiny, Jill has to help mc, she has not to understand what happened, and mc has to declare his love, without any player's decision, but in the next chapter we can decide that all if that is only a joke

One of the best moment in the game

That’s the beauty of it. The game’s characters aren’t all formulaic. Imagine how average it would be if the mc needed to tell each li about his mom’s death or else they wouldn’t progress with him. He needed to hold their hands first, then hug, then kiss, then handjob, then blowjob, then titjob, then fuck, then anal... I hate that formulaic shit, where each character needs the same treatment to win them over.

Look how diverse this game is.

• End of episode 4, you need to have shown interest in M&J and not be a DIK and you're in.
• Bella, you just need to persistent, and don't fuck with Cathy, she's all yours
• Sage, you can ignore the fuck outta her and finally give in to her desperate ass in episode 7 and you've home and hosed (probably shouldn't be fucking her mom either, but we'll see)
• Jill needs more work. And why not? She's a virgin who is really not sure what she wants.

And "shit happens" in this case isn't just some completely random event. It's the culmination of events that lead to an less than desirable outcome.

But seriously, if someone was chasing Jill and they skipped on her picnic, there should have been no major surprise when that jeopardised the relationship. It's a fucking porn game. In half these games you've gotta jump through eery hoop, milk every relationship point, get a perfect score, and then you'll get in a girl's pants.

 

[ChipLecsap]

People doing things for "somebody else's good" are rarely good people. They merely like to justify their disrespect and disregard for the wishes of others - because they can tell themselves they're being good people.