VN Ren'Py Being a DIK [v0.11.1] [DrPinkCake]

[ename144]

For me it's like I said, Josy's more willing to pull the chute and bail out when things get tough. Maya's Dad found out about them and forbade Maya from seeing Josy and likely prevented Josy from seeing Maya. Maya's also not given much indication that she ever stood up to her Dad in defense of her relationship and Josy will have wanted that. They probably also fought before that because of having to keep their relationship a secret and both these things put a strain on the relationship with Josy wanting Maya to be more assertive and Maya trying to hold on to her relationship with her Dad as much as possible. Both of them felt hurt by the other for not respecting each others feelings, but Josy felt like she couldn't be bothered anymore and that she had an easy way out with the MC, just like her Dad did when he cheating on her Mom.

There's a lot of reading between the lines and taking a step back to think about human behaviour in these situations. It's what makes DPC such a good writer because these characters feel very human and are doing things that real people do.

I finally played through most of this game and I was quite impressed. I'm definitely going to have to get episode 5 when it's released. I agree with Holy Bacchus that the interaction between the characters leaves a lot unstated and does feel very human.

On Josy in particular, I think the main issue is that she was isolated - both in that she was lonely, but also in that there was no one she could turn to for advice. She seems like the sort of person who needs to be around people, but she couldn't see Maya and her other friends had moved on. We also know that, like Maya, she didn't want to talk about being in a lesbian relationship.

I think she went on the first 'date' with the MC because she just wanted a friend to hang out with for a bit. After all, he'd been working with her for months and hadn't asked her out, so she probably thought he just wasn't interested in her romantically. It was only when she realized there WAS a mutual attraction between them that she panicked and called the whole thing off. That in turn made her feel even worse because on the one hand she felt like she had cheated on Maya, but on the other hand she enjoyed the companionship and felt like she had treated the MC badly.

From there it gets more speculative because we don't know what they said to each other or when they said it. But we do know they had started fighting and we know Josy told Maya about her plans to leave town, probably about the same time she told the MC. That's when the MC asked for (effectively) a second, and Josy said yes.

I suspect Josy wanted Maya to make more of an effort to see her, but Maya wasn't willing to risk it until she had a way out from her father's control. After her brief tryst with the MC, that became increasingly hard for Josy to take. So once it looked like she wasn't going to get in to B&R (thus might never see Maya again AND had no clear path out of her lousy situation), Josy started thinking about running away and making a new start somewhere else. When the MC heard that, he rushed back to see her. Maya didn't.

So when the date happens, it's no surprise Josy is really conflicted. As she said, she desperately wanted to feel loved, and here was the MC showering her in affection while Maya was (possibly) avoiding her. Based on her dialog in the sex scene, it seems like Josy was trying rationalize the cheating by leaving it up to MC; I don't think it's coincidence she brought up her father and Monica over dinner. She was so desperate to get away from her worries and feel something positive she was willing to cheat, but still couldn't quite bring herself to pull the trigger. It's self-destructive behavior, but it does feel believable, at least to me.

Obviously, this depends on things we don't know, and it might fall apart if and when we learn more about Maya's dad (or Josy's dad and Monica, for that matter). But personally, I find it works very well because all three parties can share the blame for the situation. Maya absolutely should have told the MC that she was still in a relationship, but it's understandable why she didn't given that she's a very private person who has clearly been burned badly talking about that relationship in the past. Josy should have either broken up with Maya or stopped flirting with the MC once it was clear he was interested in her romantically, but it's easy to see why she failed to do so. And while the MC can justifiably feel misled by Josy and betrayed by Maya once the whole thing came out, at the end of the day he was the one who kept pursuing them after they had each said no in their own way. As Josy said, he knew full well she was in a relationship when her pursued her; the only thing that really changed is that he got to feel what that was like from the other side.

Anyway, I've really enjoyed their story thus far. Hopefully all four possible 'pairings' can have a happy ending, but we'll see. That said, while I think this trio is too central to the story to ignore them, it would be good for the next episode to put more of the focus on Jill, Isabella and Sage. There's plenty of room to flesh out the new status quo of the MC and Maya/Josy through small incidental interactions. This is something the texting phone app might be good for.

It's only when the three are an item that we should keep the focus on them. Fortunately, it would make sense for that start slow, so there's still a chance for the other characters to shine now. Eventually whichever characters aren't chosen will have to fade into the background, so some level of varied interaction is going to have to happen. But hopefully that will come near the end of the game so it doesn't get unmanageable.

 

[Tserriednich'sNen]

The girl on the left looks like Jill (or her sister maybe) almost obviously so, not sure where people are getting Bella or Jade from.

 

[Holy Bacchus]

Or maybe it's because they're more interested in the other girls in the game and are tired of having Maya & Josy content forced upon them by the dev simply for the sake of plot progression. Just a thought.

Well, trawling through some of the old pages prior to both episodes 3 and 4, it's interesting to note how a lot of sentiment towards them changed. A lot of people liked Maya and Josy and were excited for ep 4 and the prospect of a threesome with them, but then after ep 4 released is when the mood soured for a lot of people. Why? Because their connection to each other was revealed to be much stronger than first thought, not just a casual fling or lesbian experimentation, but love.

It makes the MC feel like the third wheel, like he's the one who's getting in the middle of their relationship, and adult games typically have the MC be the linch pin of a FFM relationship, with both female characters falling in love with him before agreeing to all be together. Not having him be that here makes Maya & Josy feel like they were always out of reach and it's frustrating and emasculating for some, making people irrationally angry at them.

If some people are tired of their drama, fine, but I'd say a fair few people were just hurt by it and simply try to find other ways to justify not liking them.

 

[Jackie123]

Damn im already blueballing... DPC better drop that shit ASAP!

 

[Holy Bacchus]

I finally played through most of this game and I was quite impressed. I'm definitely going to have to get episode 5 when it's released. I agree with Holy Bacchus that the interaction between the characters leaves a lot unstated and does feel very human.

On Josy in particular, I think the main issue is that she was isolated - both in that she was lonely, but also in that there was no one she could turn to for advice. She seems like the sort of person who needs to be around people, but she couldn't see Maya and her other friends had moved on. We also know that, like Maya, she didn't want to talk about being in a lesbian relationship.

I think she went on the first 'date' with the MC because she just wanted a friend to hang out with for a bit. After all, he'd been working with her for months and hadn't asked her out, so she probably thought he just wasn't interested in her romantically. It was only when she realized there WAS a mutual attraction between them that she panicked and called the whole thing off. That in turn made her feel even worse because on the one hand she felt like she had cheated on Maya, but on the other hand she enjoyed the companionship and felt like she had treated the MC badly.

From there it gets more speculative because we don't know what they said to each other or when they said it. But we do know they had started fighting and we know Josy told Maya about her plans to leave town, probably about the same time she told the MC. That's when the MC asked for (effectively) a second, and Josy said yes.

I suspect Josy wanted Maya to make more of an effort to see her, but Maya wasn't willing to risk it until she had a way out from her father's control. After her brief tryst with the MC, that became increasingly hard for Josy to take. So once it looked like she wasn't going to get in to B&R (thus might never see Maya again AND had no clear path out of her lousy situation), Josy started thinking about running away and making a new start somewhere else. When the MC heard that, he rushed back to see her. Maya didn't.

So when the date happens, it's no surprise Josy is really conflicted. As she said, she desperately wanted to feel loved, and here was the MC showering her in affection while Maya was (possibly) avoiding her. Based on her dialog in the sex scene, it seems like Josy was trying rationalize the cheating by leaving it up to MC; I don't think it's coincidence she brought up her father and Monica over dinner. She was so desperate to get away from her worries and feel something positive she was willing to cheat, but still couldn't quite bring herself to pull the trigger. It's self-destructive behavior, but it does feel believable, at least to me.

Obviously, this depends on things we don't know, and it might fall apart if and when we learn more about Maya's dad (or Josy's dad and Monica, for that matter). But personally, I find it works very well because all three parties can share the blame for the situation. Maya absolutely should have told the MC that she was still in a relationship, but it's understandable why she didn't given that she's a very private person who has clearly been burned badly talking about that relationship in the past. Josy should have either broken up with Maya or stopped flirting with the MC once it was clear he was interested in her romantically, but it's easy to see why she failed to do so. And while the MC can justifiably feel misled by Josy and betrayed by Maya once the whole thing came out, at the end of the day he was the one who kept pursuing them after they had each said no in their own way. As Josy said, he knew full well she was in a relationship when her pursued her; the only thing that really changed is that he got to feel what that was like from the other side.

Anyway, I've really enjoyed their story thus far. Hopefully all four possible 'pairings' can have a happy ending, but we'll see. That said, while I think this trio is too central to the story to ignore them, it would be good for the next episode to put more of the focus on Jill, Isabella and Sage. There's plenty of room to flesh out the new status quo of the MC and Maya/Josy through small incidental interactions. This is something the texting phone app might be good for.

It's only when the three are an item that we should keep the focus on them. Fortunately, it would make sense for that start slow, so there's still a chance for the other characters to shine now. Eventually whichever characters aren't chosen will have to fade into the background, so some level of varied interaction is going to have to happen. But hopefully that will come near the end of the game so it doesn't get unmanageable.

This is a perfectly well put together explanation/reasoning of this whole situation and I enjoyed reading it. I was thinking about addressing each point individually to add to it, but there's nothing to add because it's exactly how I see it as well.

I only wish more people saw it this way then maybe they wouldn't have such irrational hatred for these characters based on their own hurt feelings.

 

[Mormont]

Jade from.

I think glasses are required it looks nothing like Jade the whole structure of the faces are different.

 

[Casmyr]

The leftovers option in Quinn's restaurant is like the best thing ever.

Also thank you ename144 for posting that wonderful read.

 

[Dashxp4k]

Girl on the left looks like bella

It's Bella

 

[ename144]

The leftovers option in Quinn's restaurant is like the best thing ever.

Also thank you ename144 for posting that wonderful read.

My pleasure, glad it was worth the time to write. It's nice when a game makes me care enough about the characters to get into the weeds on just what makes them tick.

 

[Tserriednich'sNen]

This is a perfectly well put together explanation/reasoning of this whole situation and I enjoyed reading it. I was thinking about addressing each point individually to add to it, but there's nothing to add because it's exactly how I see it as well.

I only wish more people saw it this way then maybe they wouldn't have such irrational hatred for these characters based on their own hurt feelings.

Most people do understand their situation perfectly, they just disliked their actions to the point of not having any romantic interest in them and again prefer other girls (like myself).

 

[Tserriednich'sNen]

View attachment 633968
It's Bella

Hmm, the more I look at the picture the more I can kinda see a younger Bella.

 

[Other side of reality]

I finally played through most of this game and I was quite impressed. I'm definitely going to have to get episode 5 when it's released. I agree with Holy Bacchus that the interaction between the characters leaves a lot unstated and does feel very human.

On Josy in particular, I think the main issue is that she was isolated - both in that she was lonely, but also in that there was no one she could turn to for advice. She seems like the sort of person who needs to be around people, but she couldn't see Maya and her other friends had moved on. We also know that, like Maya, she didn't want to talk about being in a lesbian relationship.

I think she went on the first 'date' with the MC because she just wanted a friend to hang out with for a bit. After all, he'd been working with her for months and hadn't asked her out, so she probably thought he just wasn't interested in her romantically. It was only when she realized there WAS a mutual attraction between them that she panicked and called the whole thing off. That in turn made her feel even worse because on the one hand she felt like she had cheated on Maya, but on the other hand she enjoyed the companionship and felt like she had treated the MC badly.

From there it gets more speculative because we don't know what they said to each other or when they said it. But we do know they had started fighting and we know Josy told Maya about her plans to leave town, probably about the same time she told the MC. That's when the MC asked for (effectively) a second, and Josy said yes.

I suspect Josy wanted Maya to make more of an effort to see her, but Maya wasn't willing to risk it until she had a way out from her father's control. After her brief tryst with the MC, that became increasingly hard for Josy to take. So once it looked like she wasn't going to get in to B&R (thus might never see Maya again AND had no clear path out of her lousy situation), Josy started thinking about running away and making a new start somewhere else. When the MC heard that, he rushed back to see her. Maya didn't.

So when the date happens, it's no surprise Josy is really conflicted. As she said, she desperately wanted to feel loved, and here was the MC showering her in affection while Maya was (possibly) avoiding her. Based on her dialog in the sex scene, it seems like Josy was trying rationalize the cheating by leaving it up to MC; I don't think it's coincidence she brought up her father and Monica over dinner. She was so desperate to get away from her worries and feel something positive she was willing to cheat, but still couldn't quite bring herself to pull the trigger. It's self-destructive behavior, but it does feel believable, at least to me.

Obviously, this depends on things we don't know, and it might fall apart if and when we learn more about Maya's dad (or Josy's dad and Monica, for that matter). But personally, I find it works very well because all three parties can share the blame for the situation. Maya absolutely should have told the MC that she was still in a relationship, but it's understandable why she didn't given that she's a very private person who has clearly been burned badly talking about that relationship in the past. Josy should have either broken up with Maya or stopped flirting with the MC once it was clear he was interested in her romantically, but it's easy to see why she failed to do so. And while the MC can justifiably feel misled by Josy and betrayed by Maya once the whole thing came out, at the end of the day he was the one who kept pursuing them after they had each said no in their own way. As Josy said, he knew full well she was in a relationship when her pursued her; the only thing that really changed is that he got to feel what that was like from the other side.

Anyway, I've really enjoyed their story thus far. Hopefully all four possible 'pairings' can have a happy ending, but we'll see. That said, while I think this trio is too central to the story to ignore them, it would be good for the next episode to put more of the focus on Jill, Isabella and Sage. There's plenty of room to flesh out the new status quo of the MC and Maya/Josy through small incidental interactions. This is something the texting phone app might be good for.

It's only when the three are an item that we should keep the focus on them. Fortunately, it would make sense for that start slow, so there's still a chance for the other characters to shine now. Eventually whichever characters aren't chosen will have to fade into the background, so some level of varied interaction is going to have to happen. But hopefully that will come near the end of the game so it doesn't get unmanageable.

Indeed, very good analysis. As a person who played this masterpiece only two days ago, I must admit, that indeed I felt betrayed and emotionally drained after the conclusion, wanted to blame them. After I come to my feels and thought about a situation from the point of player, not MC, I found that they indeed had their reasons, reasonable or not, to behave like this/ Realistically flawed, but likeable and in the end good persons.
Although from my point of view the main hatred towards Maya/Josy come not from lies, but from Maya and Josy solved this situation. Like, after months of denial, lies and other they just talked several miutes and decided that none of this matters and they forgive each other and decided that they love each other. Such things happen, of course, but not so quickly! From the side point of view it just seems like "Ok, I behaved bad. But she also did the very same thing for the same reasons! So, if I forgive her, than I am not guilty at anything! Nothing happened!". It's not the solution of problem, it's just walking away from it, with all their wrongabouts, all their breaking relationships, all reasons WHY they decided to end teir relationship in the first place just...overlooked? Forgotten?Walked away from it, again? And MC, who they claim to love, just...bleaked away? From their reactions they are completely fine being together with or without MC, which in my opinion is the true "betrayal" from the point of view of many players - MC didn't mean AND won't mean anything to them, always the effect of the "third wheel". Nothing was solved, and from this I think that their relationship was never love, but passion. It seems good at the moment, but with time it disappears with time and only only bitterness remains. They are too different and too much alike at the same time, so their relationship just doesn't have future, especially with the storm that's coming in the next episodes. In the threesome route they MAY develop thir relationship in stable form...with much help of MC, of course, but otherwise?
That's why i REALLY hope about about single romancing paths for them in friendship route, it will open so much about them and may indeed save them in eyes of players, with a much character development and drama.

 

[B-52reloaded]

Could it be that Bella and Jill´s sister were friends at the college and the sister - out of reasons yet unknown, maybe because being bullied or blackmailed - committed suicide (for we know from Jill she "passed away") and that one scene is a flashback of Bella and the sister ... there is also the connection to Jade maybe she attended the same college. And that would count for the close relationship Bella has with Jill - perhaps remorse or even guild ...

 

[Mormont]

the main hatred towards Maya/Josy come not from lies

I'd say it does. You can't really blame people for being wary of them they just don't want to face the risk of being taken for a ride again and sure Maya and Josy might be truthful from here on out but it's a hell of a risk.

 

[Other side of reality]

I'd say it does. You can't really blame people for being wary of them they just don't want to face the risk of being taken for a ride again and sure Maya and Josy might be truthful from here on out but it's a hell of a risk.

I never said that lies are nonexistant - they are, and it's perfectly natural and reasonable to be wary if caught on lie...especially repeatably. The question of trust is, I think the central theme of their whole characters - they don't trust easily for fear of abandonment and coviction (especially Maya) and from this came nearly all lies, troubles and conflicts. If they don't start opened, nearly any of their actions are doomed to fail. I only said that the problem is not only in lies.
Hm, I just thought, maybe that's why they forgave each other and like each other - subconsciously they know that because they aren't trustable to each other, they don't need to think - to trust or not to trust each other and wherefore much stress is avoided?

 

[Real Kreten]

I just hope that we will see this Maya site again. Quin would be especially taken aback if the timid mouse snapped on her like that.

 

[Casmyr]

I wonder how Jill's friendship will be with Josy

 

[ThePresident451]

First of all, amazing game, can't wait for episode 5. Since we don't have an estimated date yet, do you remember how early DPC usually gives release dates? I mean, he gives the date, like, a couple of weeks before the actual release? Or days? Or even a month? Thanks to whoever will reply

 

[Holy Bacchus]

Indeed, very good analysis. As a person who played this masterpiece only two days ago, I must admit, that indeed I felt betrayed and emotionally drained after the conclusion, wanted to blame them. After I come to my feels and thought about a situation from the point of player, not MC, I found that they indeed had their reasons, reasonable or not, to behave like this/ Realistically flawed, but likeable and in the end good persons.
Although from my point of view the main hatred towards Maya/Josy come not from lies, but from Maya and Josy solved this situation. Like, after months of denial, lies and other they just talked several miutes and decided that none of this matters and they forgive each other and decided that they love each other. Such things happen, of course, but not so quickly! From the side point of view it just seems like "Ok, I behaved bad. But she also did the very same thing for the same reasons! So, if I forgive her, than I am not guilty at anything! Nothing happened!". It's not the solution of problem, it's just walking away from it, with all their wrongabouts, all their breaking relationships, all reasons WHY they decided to end teir relationship in the first place just...overlooked? Forgotten?Walked away from it, again? And MC, who they claim to love, just...bleaked away? From their reactions they are completely fine being together with or without MC, which in my opinion is the true "betrayal" from the point of view of many players - MC didn't mean AND won't mean anything to them, always the effect of the "third wheel". Nothing was solved, and from this I think that their relationship was never love, but passion. It seems good at the moment, but with time it disappears with time and only only bitterness remains. They are too different and too much alike at the same time, so their relationship just doesn't have future, especially with the storm that's coming in the next episodes. In the threesome route they MAY develop thir relationship in stable form...with much help of MC, of course, but otherwise?
That's why i REALLY hope about about single romancing paths for them in friendship route, it will open so much about them and may indeed save them in eyes of players, with a much character development and drama.

Yeah, this is something I felt too, that their reconciliation happened way too easily. It does make it feel as though the MC meant nothing to them and I think that this is one thing that DPC might have got a bit wrong. Sure, they both did the same thing with the same person for the same reason, but it should give them pause to really reflect on why they did it and if their relationship is or was ever really that strong. I mean, Maya goes from gay to at least bi in less than 2 weeks. That says a lot and she shouldn't have been so willing to jump back into Josy's arms, even if she was the one holding on the tightest before that.

Some people might say it's just because of the lies and that it's a betrayal of trust, but everybody is lying to the MC right now or at least not giving him the whole truth and each one of them has the potential to be just as devastating to the MC as Maya and Josy. This game could easily be called "Secrets and Lies" and it would be a perfectly apt title because every main LI has a level of risk to them, given that we don't know what it is they're hiding.

The simplest reason is that people felt the MC had a good shot with Maya and Josy, even after the girlfriend reveal, but the quick and easy way they got back together made it feel like what they had with the MC meant nothing and that they were misled. It would have been better to have them not get back together but to be unsure of where to go next, then to have the MC express his feelings and if you choose to be friends, they all choose to be friends, giving them time to sort things out and this way you get a separate path for each or a better MFF path later on. But if you choose to go for MFF at this point, it would make it feel more like it was because they truly want to be with him rather than feeling like they did it out of pity.

 

[Mormont]

First of all, amazing game, can't wait for episode 5. Since we don't have an estimated date yet, do you remember how early DPC usually gives release dates? I mean, he gives the date, like, a couple of weeks before the actual release? Or days? Or even a month? Thanks to whoever will reply

He'll usually say when it's ready to update usually all happens within a week.