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VN Ren'Py Being a DIK [v0.11.1] [DrPinkCake]

4.70 star(s) 1,735 Votes
Discussion Reviews (1,735)
grarg

grarg

Member
Dec 16, 2020
366
520
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Blue Milk said:
Josy's lack of proper self-identity and the feeling of being undervalued and overlooked in the relationship that she expresses in Ep 11. Granted it grows more during the game, but it's also there then too and has been with her since the beginning. Also, properly resolving to be more there for each other, particularly Maya for Josy, and to deal with these issues together which, again, happens in Ep 11.
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When did she have -- or not have -- a "proper self-identity"? What even is that?

She's had plenty of interests throughout the game. Fashion, economics...the same topics her mom and dad are into. She joins the HOTs to have the "full college experience." If she couldn't get into B&R, she'd quit her job at the convenience store and move to the East Coast. She seems to have plenty of ideas and ambitions, and is pretty constructive when things don't go her way (e.g. Episode 11, she even starts a blog.)

She's warm, outgoing, talkative, confident, sexual, mature, and positive. Very friendly with people, and can see the good in Becky, Heather, and others.

Where does her
  • "lack of proper self-identity"
  • "the feeling of being undervalued"
  • "being overlooked in the relationship"
occur in the game? Examples, please.

Blue Milk said:
Josy being curt towards Becky still has nothing to do with her own personal self-identity issues and the lack of communication with Maya about the issues expressed in Ep 11. She can have a moment like that whilst still feeling like a lost soul.
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That's good to know? Ok, so you're just saying X doesn't imply Y? OK.

So...

...why are you bringing it up? Where and when does Josy have personal self-identity issues...in Episode 6?
5?
4?
3?
2?
1?

Or 7, 8, 9, 10? Or is this subconscious?

Are you saying you can read Josys' subconscious? :oops:

Blue Milk said:
The deeper issues are literally everything she talked about in Ep 11. Maybe go read it again because I think you missed a lot.
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No, you said it's throughout the game. Not just Episode 11. Tell me where Josy has:
  • lack of proper self-identity
  • the feeling of being undervalued
  • being overlooked in the relationship
In Episodes 1-10 please.

Keep in mind I can give plenty of examples of Josy getting plenty of 1) "identity", 2) feeling valued and 3) not being overlooked in the relationship, if the whole 2nd date and ILY is any indication (psst! Josy still goes "Wah" even if you date her and give her the ILY!)

*bomb explodes in Blue Milk's brain*

Blue Milk said:
If you have to ask then it shows you're not getting it.
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:HideThePain:

Blue Milk said:
The problem I think you and others have is that you expect these things to be laid out in very explicit terms, that you expect her to be outright saying these things and speaking directly to them, but this is not how it's been with her nor is it how it generally is with women or most anyone IRL.
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Yeah. That's how you prove stuff. With evidence.

Can you give me any indication then that what you claim exists?

Blue Milk said:
If you actually pay close attention you'd notice that Josy is always looking for reassurance, affirmation, and attachment, this is because these are typical signs of an inner struggle with feelings of self-identity and self-worth as well as just a general emotional need of them,
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Example? You are literally trying to connect a series of behaviours or sentences as a basis of ...some psych profile to explain some inherent cause, i.e. trauma. All because DPC is perfect and amazing and OMG DPC you teh writer of teh ages and

Do the work, and draw the connections. That's your job, not mine.

Blue Milk said:
all of which is likely due to past separation trauma, i.e. her parent's divorce.
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likely?

So you have no idea yourself?

You think you see trauma, but you don't know?

Oh I'm sorry. I thought you were the psych porn whisperer profiler.

Blue Milk said:
This could even be considered a case of transference if Josy's need of these things comes from feeling like she didn't get much of this during the time her parent's were going through their troubles and so she desperately seeks reassurance, affirmation, and attachment from others because she still feels that void.
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Ok. So now you're saying you DO have access to Josy's subconscious?

Sorry if I call bullshit, again, and again.

Again, you have to make your case. You can't just say everyone else is crazy, or blind, or stupid, and that you have the REAL version of events.

You're only one meme away from sounding and looking like the Charlie Kelly from It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia, describing Pepe Silvia.

Blue Milk said:
This is also very evident in how she so often puts herself before Maya and places Maya's problems above her own because people who do so are typically looking for this to be a source of affirmation, to have the other person value them because of how much they do for them but it can be an unhealthy thing for their own sense of self, which becomes apparent in Ep 11 during that convo.
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Again, give me multiple examples then. Don't just say it. Quote it. And then back it up with whatever psych 101 theory you've got. No one's going to buy your interpretation of events because you "said so."

These kind of subtle gestures can be done in writing, but it has to be done like hitting someone over the head with a feather. Like, every time they're on screen, they do the thing. The nervous twitch. The facial expression. The slurred words. etc.

In your case, you need to find Josy doing stuff like:
  • always asking others if she's liked
  • overanalyzing interactions and worrying excessively about being abandoned or disliked.
  • hestitating to make choices without exteral approval
  • saying sorry excessively, even when unnecessary
  • relying on likes, comments, and shares on social media for self-worth
  • pleasing others over themselves, but for approval
  • taking feedback personally and struggling with constructive criticism
  • having mood swings based on external validation or lack thereof.
And doing it A LOT to ALL THE TIME. Like in a pattern. And then we would point to the pattern and go "OOOOH, that's why in Episode 11 she acted like she did."

There. There's a criteria for you to work with for "Josy needs help" or "Josy is concerned" or "Josy doesn't want to love Maya anymore". You can't just say "I know better" and expect anyone to take you seriously.

(And I just re-read that list. Does that sound ANYTHING like Josy? Throughout Episodes 1-10? You could argue the social media thing in 11, but that's all I could find. And if DPC wanted to do this "subtle" behavior, building up as the chapters went by...well sorry Blue Milk Man, it ain't there! Josy is a bubbly, happy, mature, positive, optimistic, cute, sexy girl. Always has been. Except in Episode 11, hence, It Came Out Of Nowhere™)

Blue Milk said:
Now that Maya's issue is resolved and Josy isn't having to always be there for Maya, she's not sure who she is anymore and where she fits, hence why she feels "lost" and searching for her own identity.
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Maya didn't really have much of a problem before to constitute this level of concern. Josy, the MC, Sage and Jill were just fine with Maya's family issues being it's own thing, and they all cared for her. Maya and Derek solved their problem themselves anyway. And Josy wasn't exactly Maya's rock or anything like that, nor was Maya that brittle. It was tense and sad, but nothing LIFE SHATTERING. Nor was Josy given a serious mission of TAKING CARE OF MAYA! -- now that it's gone -- and she may as well give up on love and life.

I really don't see Maya's contract dispute giving Josy some sort of...meaning to her life? Was that even mentioned? (I thought Maya wanted to take care of people?) And now that meaning is gone? Seriously where are you getting this?

Blue Milk said:
So again, if you pay close attention to her words, the ways she's clearly holding back, often changing the subject and redirecting the convos, the looks she gives in those difficult moments, the expressions of doubts, insecurities, etc, her body language, it's clear that she's not been "fine" this whole time, she's been struggling with an inner battle that a lot of people are just not seeing.
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Citation needed. Again, you're Charlie and I'm laughing at you. DPC would be laughing at you. I'm pretty sure many of us are going "Wtf is this guy talking about?"

You're basically the other side of the Darkwen coin: he's stupidly gaga over Josy, and you're stupidly seeing some kind of hidden meaning in her. And telling everyone they're blind and stupid because we're not as visionary and big brained as you. Instead of just being a weird horndog with a catchphrase, you insult others. Bravo.

Like dude, just write an essay.

Blue Milk said:
Honestly, this feels like critical writing in English class and you're asking me to do your homework for you :ROFLMAO:
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It's your theory.

You're the one who has to prove it.

You can't just say "Go read the scenes man" and expect me to do your job.

Blue Milk said:
You seriously need to learn and understand that just because people seem OK on the outside and are capable of having good times doesn't mean there can't be issues below the surface. These things aren't mutually exclusive.
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And you seriously need to prove that any of your theory is true. By using evidence and logic. It's really not hard.

Maybe you should do that before accusing others of not seeing your genius? Might help your wild conspiracy theory there, Charlie.

Blue Milk said:
Again, you just prove that you can't see something unless it's given to you in clear, obvious fashion. There is such a thing as subtext that you clearly struggle with.
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That is correct. I cannot see the subtext you see.

Show it to me.


Blue Milk said:
Don't blame me because you failed critical writing lessons and don't understand what subtext is.
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I have a feeling you don't have too many friends in your book club.

Blue Milk said:
You honestly strike me as someone who just takes everything everyone says in this game verbatim and fails to see the characters have deeper layers to them that they're expressing all the time through non-explicit means, which is also how people IRL can be too.
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And you're Charlie.
pepe_silvia_meme_banner[1].jpg

Oh. And welcome to my ignore list.
 
Last edited:
grarg

grarg

Member
Dec 16, 2020
366
520
215
Better Cock Spock said:
Tiff blogger arc when :HideThePain:
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Um, after she reads Sartre, doesn't like partying or studying anymore, doesn't like boys, and stays in her room contemplating why she's even at college? Or breathing?

It's the DPC writing method, after all. And it's always perfect.

Maybe she'll take up crochet. But she has to do it all at once, or it doesn't count. It's like...a twist!
 
Blue Milk

Blue Milk

Active Member
Apr 27, 2021
594
1,137
204
grarg said:
When did she have -- or not have -- a "proper self-identity"? What even is that?

She's had plenty of interests throughout the game. Fashion, economics...the same topics her mom and dad are into. She joins the HOTs to have the "full college experience." If she couldn't get into B&R, she'd quit her job at the convenience store and move to the East Coast. She seems to have plenty of ideas and ambitions, and is pretty constructive when things don't go her way (e.g. Episode 11, she even starts a blog.)

She's warm, outgoing, talkative, confident, sexual, mature, and positive. Very friendly with people, and can see the good in Becky, Heather, and others.

Where does her
  • "lack of proper self-identity"
  • "the feeling of being undervalued"
  • "being overlooked in the relationship"
occur in the game? Examples, please.



That's good to know? Ok, so you're just saying X doesn't imply Y? OK.

So...

...why are you bringing it up? Where and when does Josy have personal self-identity issues...in Episode 6?
5?
4?
3?
2?
1?

Or 7, 8, 9, 10? Or is this subconscious?

Are you saying your can read Josys' subconscious? :oops:



No, you said it's throughout the game. Not just Episode 11. Tell me where Josy has:
  • lack of proper self-identity
  • the feeling of being undervalued
  • being overlooked in the relationship
In Episodes 1-10 please.

Keep in mind I can give plenty of examples of Josy getting plenty of 1) "identity", 2) feeling valued and 3) not being overlooked in the relationship, if the whole 2nd date and ILY is any indication (psst! Josy still goes "Wah" even if you date her and give her the ILY!)

*bomb explodes in Blue Milk's brain*



:HideThePain:



Yeah. That's how you prove stuff. With evidence.

Can you give me any indication then that what you claim exists?


Example? You are literally trying to connect a series of behaviours or sentences as a basis of ...some psych profile to explain some inherent cause, i.e. trauma. All because DPC is perfect and amazing and OMG DPC you teh writer of teh ages and

Do the work, and draw the connections. That's your job, not mine.



likely?

So you have no idea yourself?

You think you see trauma, but you don't know?

Oh I'm sorry. I thought you were the psych porn whisperer profiler.


Ok. So now you're saying you DO have access to Josy's subconscious?

Sorry if I call bullshit, again, and again.

Again, you have to make your case. You can't just say everyone else is crazy, or blind, or stupid, and that you have the REAL version of events.

You're only one meme away from sounding and looking like the Charlie Kelly from It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia, describing Pepe Silvia.



Again, give me multiple examples then. Don't just say it. Quote it. And then back it up with whatever psych 101 theory you've got. No one's going to buy your interpretation of events because you "said so."

These kind of subtle gestures can be done in writing, but it has to be done like hitting someone over the head with a feather. Like, every time they're on screen, they do the thing. The nervous twitch. The facial expression. The slurred words. etc.

In your case, you need to find Josy doing stuff like:
  • always asking others if she's liked
  • overanalyzing interactions and worrying excessively about being abandoned or disliked.
  • hestitating to make choices without exteral approval
  • saying sorry excessively, even when unnecessary
  • relying on likes, comments, and shares on social media for self-worth
  • pleasing others over themselves, but for approval
  • taking feedback personally and struggling with constructive criticism
  • having mood swings based on external validation or lack thereof.
And doing it A LOT to ALL THE TIME. Like in a pattern. And then we would point to the pattern and go "OOOOH, that's why in Episode 11 she acted like she did."

There. There's a criteria for you to work with for "Josy needs help" or "Josy is concerned" or "Josy doesn't want to love Maya anymore". You can't just say "I know better" and expect anyone to take you seriously.


Maya didn't really have much of a problem before to constitute this level of concern. Josy, the MC, Sage and Jill were just fine with Maya's family issues being it's own thing, and they call cared for her. Maya and Derek solved their problem themselves anyway. And Josy wasn't exactly Maya's rock or anything like that, nor was Maya that brittle. It was tense and sad, but nothing LIFE SHATTERING. Nor was Josy given a serious mission of TAKING CARE OF MAYA! -- now that it's gone -- and she may as well give up on love and life.

I really don't see Maya's contract dispute giving Josy some sort of...meaning to her life? Was that even mentioned? (I thought Maya wanted to take care of people?) And now that meaning is gone? Seriously where are you getting this?



Citation needed. Again, you're Charlie and I'm laughing at you. DPC would be laughing at you. I'm pretty sure many of us are going "Wtf is this guy talking about?"

You're basically the other side of the Darkwen coin: he's stupidly gaga over Josy, and you're stupidly seeing some kind of hidden meaning in her. And telling everyone they're blind and stupid because we're not as visionary and big brained as you.

Like dude, just write an essay or something.



It's your theory.

You're the one who has to prove it.

You can't just say "Go read the scenes man" and expect me to do your job.


And you seriously need to prove that any of your theory is true. By using evidence and logic. It's really not hard.

Maybe you should do that before accusing of others of not seeing your genius? Might help your wild conspiracy theory there, Charlie.



That is correct. I cannot see the subtext you see.

Show it to me.




I have a feeling you don't have too many friends in your book club.



And you're Charlie.
View attachment 4836672

Oh. And welcome to my ignore list.
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Critical writing dude, you failed at it. Looking at Josy and being like, "everything is exactly as it seems and she's fine", would be an immediate F because that's exactly what you're doing. Methinks it would be you and everybody like you that DPC would laugh at because you missed everything and thought she was the most perfect, well-adjusted girl in the game with zero issues because you understand nothing about subtext and non-explicit cues that characters display, you just took everything at face value and can't grasp that there are 2 sides to people; the one they present to the world and the one inside. And if you can't see it then no amount of "citation needed" is going to open your very closed eyes and mind.

So I enjoy the irony of ending up on your ignore list since ignoring things seems to be your thing ;)
 
OneShotLarry

OneShotLarry

Member
May 10, 2025
114
283
82
If this game were fully voiced, I imagine Heather having a deep Tara Reid-esque voice.

Lily would be voiced by Tara Strong, the current voice actress for Harley Quinn.

Sage would be voiced by Mila Kunis.
 
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4.70 star(s) 1,735 Votes