I posted some time ago about DPC being a discovery or architect type of writer, and we didn't come to a consensus. AL made me thing he was the former, but BADIK looks like the might be the latter. There's lots of potential to side plotlines to explore and lots of intersting characters. I still think he is more of an architect but who knows. I hope he doesn't make characters act ooc to justify plot points he wants to make, but if we use the library scene as a reference we're screwed.
No offense to dpc, I don't think he has much of soul for writing like RR Martin given the nature of the game. At best, the story is fun to engage with for visual effects yet not that complex, the characters seem pretty dense, especially the MC--there's no tone to any character, they all have the same voice, no real distinction besides a few lax or sophisticated words, that is up until ep 5. Everything seems to jump to tense to keep the interest up--boobs and butt in between--but there's nothing leading up to it--which is a sign of a bad writer. But to each their own, not everyone likes Martin, not everyone likes Rowling's writing, the same goes for this dpc person.
I posted some time ago about DPC being a discovery or architect type of writer, and we didn't come to a consensus. AL made me thing he was the former, but BADIK looks like the might be the latter. There's lots of potential to side plotlines to explore and lots of intersting characters. I still think he is more of an architect but who knows. I hope he doesn't make characters act ooc to justify plot points he wants to make, but if we use the library scene as a reference we're screwed.
The threeway route also changed a bit, with the "no strings to any of us" after pretty much the opposite happened the day before that. He said a lot of times (even in the intro) that he will make the story he wants to make regardless of public opinion, but it still feels like a retcon.
The problem with ASOIAF was becoming too wide and Martin being unable to stick to a deadline. DPC as for now hasn't failed one and pulls out content consistently. In that regard at least we can't criticize him
Yeah, that scene was about the MC, not them. They've just dumped someone they both supposedly love and had cheated the other one with and they still kiss.
In the prologue to episode 2, has anyone ever been able to figure out which girl is passed out on the bed behind Quinn as she stands there with the hypodermic needle?
Presumably Riona, but you can't get a clear view of the character's head/face. Could also be Heather, assuming the coin flipper is Tommy.
In the prologue to episode 2, has anyone ever been able to figure out which girl is passed out on the bed behind Quinn as she stands there with the hypodermic needle?
Presumably Riona, but you can't get a clear view of the character's head/face. Could also be Heather, assuming the coin flipper is Tommy.
The actual endings can be pretty different if DPC wants them to be. If the game only covers the first year or so of the MC's time at B&R, epilogues that explain what happens over the next decade or more can diverge as much as they want to. Assuming DPC plans ahead, he can put the points of divergence in the last few episodes, then end the story and narrate what happens based on a relatively manageable number of variables.
The real question is how different the various routes leading up to those endings will be. My guess is they will be fairly similar, aside from the direct results of who the MC is dating at that point.
The threeway route also changed a bit, with the "no strings to any of us" after pretty much the opposite happened the day before that. He said a lot of times (even in the intro) that he will make the story he wants to make regardless of public opinion, but it still feels like a retcon.
I think the intention was always supposed to be that the MC realized he treated every crush as if it had to be The Real Thing For Ever And Ever (tm). Thus it was a sign of maturity that he now planned merely to fool around with girls for a bit and see if anything more develops (say, in 8-12 episodes time). The takeaway of the library scene wasn't supposed to be that the three of them were so committed to each other they were willing to to risk entering a polyamorous relationship, it was that the MC would fool around with M&J as a group rather than individually.
Of course that wound up backfiring completely. Not only was such a resolution underwhelming after the intense buildup, but the focus on Maya and Josy repairing their relationship contradicted the idea that youthful crushes shouldn't be taken seriously. A big fail all around.
(Well, other than the choice of music. I adore Just Peachy.)
I think the intention was always supposed to be that the MC realized he treated every crush as if it had to be The Real Thing For Ever And Ever (tm). Thus it was a sign of maturity that he now planned merely to fool around with girls for a bit and see if anything more develops (say, in 8-12 episodes time). The takeaway of the library scene wasn't supposed to be that the three of them were so committed to each other they were willing to to risk entering a polyamorous relationship, it was that the MC would fool around with M&J as a group rather than individually.
I can't see it that way. Maya and Josy LOVE each other. Granted they had some issues and almost ended but they both say on the bed that they still LOVE each other. Both Maya and Josy talk about later how they are afraid to lose it all if they (all 3 of them) don't work out. I don't know about you Brotha but I sure as hell wouldn't risk a just repaired love relationship for just a fling. Maya and Josy are potentially risking their emotional happiness to add something that Maya still has doubts about even wanting. Doesn't pass the common sense test to me.
Edit - Takeaway is that we all pretty much agree that the "Library" scene is BROKEN AS FUCK!
No offense to dpc, I don't think he has much of soul for writing like RR Martin given the nature of the game. At best, the story is fun to engage with for visual effects yet not that complex, the characters seem pretty dense, especially the MC--there's no tone to any character, they all have the same voice, no real distinction besides a few lax or sophisticated words, that is up until ep 5. Everything seems to jump to tense to keep the interest up--boobs and butt in between--but there's nothing leading up to it--which is a sign of a bad writer. But to each their own, not everyone likes Martin, not everyone likes Rowling's writing, the same goes for this dpc person.
DPC is not Martin, that's for sure, and the story is not that deep. But considering that I think the characters feel like they have their own personalities and act accordingly, except certain library scene...
The story can become complex, though. If the tribetas are the ones behind Chad's blackmail and all that. It has the potential to grow wide in lots of ways, which can be a good thing if it's properly done.
Yeah, but that doesn't mean he's one or the other. You can have a few plot point and the endings planned out in either case. The difference is in how you reach those points, calculating the whole story beginning to end or letting it grow.
In the prologue to episode 2, has anyone ever been able to figure out which girl is passed out on the bed behind Quinn as she stands there with the hypodermic needle?
Presumably Riona, but you can't get a clear view of the character's head/face. Could also be Heather, assuming the coin flipper is Tommy.
The actual endings can be pretty different if DPC wants them to be. If the game only covers the first year or so of the MC's time at B&R, epilogues that explain what happens over the next decade or more can diverge as much as they want to. Assuming DPC plans ahead, he can put the points of divergence in the last few episodes, then end the story and narrate what happens based on a relatively manageable number of variables.
The real question is how different the various routes leading up to those endings will be. My guess is they will be fairly similar, aside from the direct results of who the MC is dating at that point.
Honestly, I think 'no strings attached' was exactly what DPC intended all along. Look at what the Episode 4 wrap-up says about it:
I think the intention was always supposed to be that the MC realized he treated every crush as if it had to be The Real Thing For Ever And Ever (tm). Thus it was a sign of maturity that he now planned merely to fool around with girls for a bit and see if anything more develops (say, in 8-12 episodes time). The takeaway of the library scene wasn't supposed to be that the three of them were so committed to each other they were willing to to risk entering a polyamorous relationship, it was that the MC would fool around with M&J as a group rather than individually.
Of course that wound up backfiring completely. Not only was such a resolution underwhelming after the intense buildup, but the focus on Maya and Josy repairing their relationship contradicted the idea that youthful crushes shouldn't be taken seriously. A big fail all around.
(Well, other than the choice of music. I adore Just Peachy.)
If that was his intention all along then it wasn't properly communicated. The general understanding after that scene seemed to be a closed relationship.
We don't know when exactly it is so we can't say for sure, it could even happen in Season 2's final episode or before. We only that it's coming up so that's an event to look forward to in season 2 which will likely be significant given it's about his mom according to Neil.
Not to mention a lot will depend on DPC's intentions, if it's to be purely about the letter then MC could go home as early as the next epsiode, however, there are other possibilities depending on the path you're on:
- MC wants to take Jill home to meet his dad
- MC wants to take Sage home to meet his dad
- He wants to intoduce Maya and Josy to his dad
- M&J are keeping their secret for now so Josy goes home and Maya stays with MC
- MC is friends with M&J so they travel together but M&J stay with Pete and Monica
- MC and Josy travel together as friends but grow closer while apart from Maya
All of those would need to occur later, some could happen in Ep6 but for convenience should probably all happen in Ep8.
I am pretty sure I will just state the obvious, but:
All this "forced romance" is a necessary evil. Implementation of the story in other ways would simply not be possible. So complaining about it seems just plain stupid to me ("I dont want to date Josy" "I tried my best to avoid Maya and we still kissed" "I tried my best to piss off Jill and we still went on a date" "That's not how it should be - Stupid Illusion of choice" yadayadayada).
Forced Romance as in: Kissing Maya, Date with Josy, Date with Jill etc.
It is absolutely impossible to avoid those scenarios, due to the plot and how it's driven.
You can ignore Bella and/or Sage during chapter 4 but in the end Sage and Bella will befriend you back in Chapter 5. Same with Josy and Maya. That's cause all of those characters are important for the plot.
And tbh that's how it should be.
DPC crafted a very interesting story, where everything does happen in a fixed way. Your choices technically only affect which H-scenes you can and will see. But the overall plot demands every single Love Interest to be present and that's the best decision DPC could make to create such a good game.
I am pretty sure that the ending will be an accumulation of your choices and different endings will be available, but knowing DPC I am quite positive, that most choices in this game do not matter for the overall plot (THAT'S how it should be btw, lest you want to program/write a 1TB Renpy game).
I am still mad when people complain about the affection system, the dating system and whatnot after they played the game 5 times and gamed the system. It's not really meant to be gamed. If you look at it with a more experienced/gamified viewpoint with DIK points/Relationship points, of course the game falls apart.
But playing the game for the first time and making decisions on a very personal level with the feedback at the end of each chapter how much Chick/Dik you are: Wonderful decision by DPC. Kudos to such a great design.
And yes. That forced romance was a big reason why I did not like Acting lessons that much. It really dragged down my experience being forced into a relationship with Megan, while not being interested in any of those girls. Still... I enjoyed the game and I knew that it was a necessary sacrifice DPC made.
TLDR: Dont complain about forced romance and/or the point/affinity system, unless they are blowing it WAY out of proportion/context. If you do I can't help myself rolling my eyes at you.
my judgment on the game remains very good, I am not unbalanced because in my opinion the ending is worth half the judgment on any story (and I am always worried that the game actually ends ...)
it is not a problem that the story has forced passages, it is a thing common to almost all games and it is understandable, as you say, also for a technical question
the problem is making choices and seeing them completely ignored.
for example: when MC is at Josy's dinner, he can decide whether to stay or go home. the choice makes sense, if we focus on Maya we may not want to betray her, Josy then at that moment seems to be going away.
I agree that 99% of players will choose to stay, it's a porn game and we play for that.
but if you choose to leave, Josy will be punished by her parents anyway, so she will be without a phone and will not be able to notify Maya.
what is that choice for? just delete it, nobody would complain about it.
this situation has led me, but I think many players, to follow 2 paths: always look for lewd scenes, or play in defense. both possibilities kill roleplay enough
I can totally understand the "retcon" of the library scene in ep.5.
I don't know about you guys, but is it really that farfetched that even after saying "I just want to be friends" there is still emotional baggage still in the air?
And Josy and Mayas reaction especially are very relatable.
Josy feels like she had no choice to hang on to the friendship even though she clearly had feelings for the MC. So once the friendship was offered she latched on to it since not doing so would potentially mean she would have lost Maya and MC.
Maya was also always attracted to MC and the talk in the room afterwards where MC pledges his loyalty can understandably be confusing, considering the fact they were almost lovers about 2-4 days (!) ago.
The only inconsistent factor is the MC since it is a projected character of yourself, so I get that some people already ended their relationship with Maya and Josy after Chapter 4 library scene (Some even before) in their head, but I absolutely do understand why Maya/Josy/MC act and think that way in chapter 5. It's just almost impossible to get closure after 1 day.
Even though I do see, why people think that it is off.
I can totally understand the "retcon" of the library scene in ep.5.
I don't know about you guys, but is it really that farfetched that even after saying "I just want to be friends" there is still emotional baggage still in the air?
And Josy and Mayas reaction especially are very relatable.
Josy feels like she had no choice to hang on to the friendship even though she clearly had feelings for the MC. So once the friendship was offered she latched on to it since not doing so would potentially mean she would have lost Maya and MC.
Maya was also always attracted to MC and the talk in the room afterwards where MC pledges his loyalty can understandably be confusing, considering the fact they were almost lovers about 2-4 days (!) ago.
The only inconsistent factor is the MC since it is a projected character of yourself, so I get that some people already ended their relationship with Maya and Josy after Chapter 4 library scene (Some even before) in their head, but I absolutely do understand why Maya/Josy/MC act and think that way in chapter 5. It's just almost impossible to get closure after 1 day.
Even though I do see, why people think that it is off.
it's a strong scene but it develops in a way we never expected.
the girls press MC because he gives them an opportunity to explain themself, in the end MC gives it to them, but he is the one who explains himself, or rather, to solve the problems between the 2 girls ...
the "let's be friends" option does not make any sense, but it is the safety net if the proposal is rejected, it must be accepted in this light.
I absolutely don't think it's a wrong scene, it's consistent with the MC character, who is a Masochistic Samaritan
for example: when MC is at Josy's dinner, he can decide whether to stay or go home. the choice makes sense, if we focus on Maya we may not want to betray her, Josy then at that moment seems to be going away.
I agree that 99% of players will choose to stay, it's a porn game and we play for that.
but if you choose to leave, Josy will be punished by her parents anyway, so she will be without a phone and will not be able to notify Maya.
what is that choice for? just delete it, nobody would complain about it.
this situation has led me, but I think many players, to follow 2 paths: always look for lewd scenes, or play in defense. both possibilities kill roleplay enough
Well I disagree, that choice is very important. The player, i for one wouldn’t want to be railroaded into a sex scene. That’s quite a difference from the odd fixed kiss. A choice still has merit from a role playing perspective. It is the forced dinner date anyway that leads to the forced Josy punishment.
Well I disagree, that choice is very important. The player, i for one wouldn’t want to be railroaded into a sex scene. That’s quite a difference from the odd fixed kiss. A choice still has merit from a role playing perspective. It is the forced dinner date anyway that leads to the forced Josy punishment.
The problem here is that MC is overly good to them even after friendzoning them. After kicking them to the curb, he's giving them the wrong impression and signal that he still cares, thus confusing them.
As I told someone before, there is no such thing as regarding a female as "friend" for a male, especially attractive ones. For a male to befriend a female, the female has to attract the male first for him to even consider it.
I am not sure about the culture in this game, but the relationship development from first met -> attracted -> sex -> break up -> get back together -> make up sex -> threesome in 2 weeks in warp speed in my books.
The problem here is that MC is overly good to them even after friendzoning them. After kicking them to the curb, he's giving them the wrong impression and signal that he still cares, thus confusing them.
As I told someone before, there is no such thing as regarding a female as "friend" for a male, especially attractive ones. For a male to befriend a female, the female has to attract the male first for him to even consider it.
I am not sure about the culture in this game, but the relationship development from first met -> attracted -> sex -> break up -> get back together -> make up sex -> threesome in 2 weeks in warp speed in my books.
it is clear that MC has not given up, he clearly tells Josy (after doing it as a porter) and she reciprocates by stabbing him and saying that she is convinced that they would have been happy together ...
MC may be friend with Maya (difficult but possible), for a matter of gratitude, for having hosted him when he had nowhere to stay, but with Josy in no alternative reality ...
The problem here is that MC is overly good to them even after friendzoning them. After kicking them to the curb, he's giving them the wrong impression and signal that he still cares, thus confusing them.
As I told someone before, there is no such thing as regarding a female as "friend" for a male, especially attractive ones. For a male to befriend a female, the female has to attract the male first for him to even consider it.
I am not sure about the culture in this game, but the relationship development from first met -> attracted -> sex -> break up -> get back together -> make up sex -> threesome in 2 weeks in warp speed in my books.
