VN Ren'Py Being a DIK [v0.11.1] [DrPinkCake]

[Cndyrvr4lf]

I can understand wanting more choice, but sandbox porn games are almost always worse off. I find the increased number of choices available means WILDLY less time spent developing character and writing an engaging story. Renders and character models are suddenly lower quality and the development takes far longer for something that ultimately has less content. They can work, but games like this where the focus is on one story with minor character choices often end up having a high quality. I guess that's what it all comes down to though, quality vs quantity.

I think you are going to the extreme on this. No one is saying we want a million branches or a sandbox/open world game. We just want our choices to actually matter otherwise why even give me a choice?

Edit - I'm not talking about the trivial choices, those are fine. I'm talking about the huge potential choices that should be branches within the game and yet they don't really seem to affect anything either. Example - Maya/Josy Friends or More? Wichever way you choose to go it doesn't really affect anything. Ep5 rolls around and Maya and Josy still are all chipper with you after potentially telling you that your not worth the risk, Josy asks you for help instead of Maya her GF who happens to be standing right there, Josy and Maya both admit they still have feelings for you? So what did our choice represent? One less sex scene but that's about it.

 

[ImperialD]

I think you are going to the extreme on this. No one is saying we want a million branches or a sandbox/open world game. We just want our choices to actually matter otherwise why even give me a choice?

pretty much my thoughts on this

 

[ename144]

That's because very few people in reality are truly neutral. How hard would it be to walk through life and not give a shit about anything? That's neutral, neither positive or negative just a simple I don't care either way.

Speaking from a game perspective or a route planning perspective? I could design a neutral route in a heartbeat. Choices - #1 Dik, #2 Chick #3 DIK, etc. etc.

It's a common problem with morality meters. With good and evil you know where you stand. But with these filthy neutrals...

I can understand wanting more choice, but sandbox porn games are almost always worse off. I find the increased number of choices available means WILDLY less time spent developing character and writing an engaging story. Renders and character models are suddenly lower quality and the development takes far longer for something that ultimately has less content. They can work, but games like this where the focus is on one story with minor character choices often end up having a high quality. I guess that's what it all comes down to though, quality vs quantity.

I agree in principal, but I do think DPC has been inconsistent in how he handles the idea of choices. Most of the time, we get relatively minor decisions that have a small but recognizable effect on the story, and all is well. But not always.

Sometimes the MC is his own person and we are just along for the ride, like when he storms out after the Maya/Josy revelation. Other times, it feels like our decisions have a substantial impact on the game (and sometimes the MC himself); the decision to break his 'code' and fight the jocks is one, the tryst with Jade might be another. And every now and then we get a heavily hyped choice that winds up having far less effect than it first seemed - the infamous library scene being the poster child here.

So while I appreciate the need to keep the story on the rails, I think a lot of the problems are of DPC's own making. He just can't stick to a consistent philosophy of how much impact our choices should have. This is made worse by how tight lipped he has been about just where the game is ultimately headed. He makes a lot of extra work for himself because the audience is often left to read their own interpretations into what a given choice "means," and it's very hard to satisfy all of them.

Mind you, I still love this game so don't take this as me slamming DPC as a writer. But he still has his blind spots, and this seems to be one of the biggest.

 

[Cndyrvr4lf]

It's a common problem with morality meters. With good and evil you know where you stand. But with these filthy neutrals...

It's a problem with game rules vs reality. Absolutes don't work. Good/Evil might work for a general tendency but it isn't a guarantee in reference to everything. Good can still do evil and Evil can still do good. Example - Churches in the dark ages and their actions. Hitler (before he went totally crazy) - Turned Germany into a 1st world nation and really turned them around after WWI (and then he lost it and went crazy and went back to evil). I in know way think Hitler was a good person so please don't go there.

 

[ename144]

Not entirely true. Even when I'm doing edits/ghostwriting for authors, and we collab, a lot of people in these books that are mentioned are there to add some depth to the story. They don't all need to be relevant to be memorable.

If Monica never comes up in the game, it won't hurt the storyline -- (at the same time, she can always be added in later via a presage) -- at least you have that idea that she is a "real" person with a "name." But if none of them were ever mentioned, the pace of the story would feel rushed, despite many parts feeling rushed. But again, he just doesn't know how to write. There are snippets of good writing, and then it's as if he falls into a mood and barrels through some of his ideas and cuts them out completely.

It is not an easy thing to write a story. I've written over a million words before I got the idea of it

Sure, naming characters can help flesh out the world. But it is interesting that Monica is referenced by name so often when other, more significant background characters are not. Maya's dad, for example, has had a much larger impact on the story and even a brief appearance on screen, but no one has ever mentioned his name.

Personally, I think it's actually a side effect of Josy's characterization. She doesn't like or respect Monica, so she prefers to call her by name rather than the semi-honorific "my step-mom." We learn her name in the process more or less as collateral damage.

As for DPC's skills as a writer, I think you're a little hard on him. As I said above, he certainly has weaknesses, but he has very real strengths, too.

 

[seriousssam]

Isn't that just her fetish? She does the same thing with the MC. They don't look alike anyway.

In one scene, Jade Says MC "My career and children" And no husband will tolerate a photo of someone else's boyfriend in the bedroom. Tybalt has the same hair as Jade (Eyebrows like a husband). Heredity.

 

[Manuka]

Sure, naming characters can help flesh out the world. But it is interesting that Monica is referenced by name so often when other, more significant background characters are not. Maya's dad, for example, has had a much larger impact on the story and even a brief appearance on screen, but no one has ever mentioned his name.

Personally, I think it's actually a side effect of Josy's characterization. She doesn't like or respect Monica, so she prefers to call her by name rather than the semi-honorific "my step-mom." We learn her name in the process more or less as collateral damage.

As for DPC's skills as a writer, I think you're a little hard on him. As I said above, he certainly has weaknesses, but he has very real strengths, too.

Aside from this being a sex game.

As a writer I expect criticism, otherwise, none of us would ever write better. I'm not saying he can't write period, or that I'm this glorious writer--we all screw up and make basic mistakes--I'm saying there are rules to writing a convincing story, character, and world-building, and because he's so distracted with images and animation that he hasn't even developed the characters properly. Literally, all the characters are so flip-floppy they can give someone whiplash. If you took the dialogue and changed them around to different characters, you'd never know who it belonged to in the first place. (that's my point).

He seems to be doing this backward and on the fly. Again, he simply (by now) should have understood how to apply the basic 3-character-story-arc methods that apply to novels (visual, screenplay, books), it makes no difference.

 

[ename144]

Aside from this being a sex game.

As a writer I expect criticism, otherwise, none of us would ever write better. I'm not saying he can't write period, or that I'm this glorious writer--we all screw up and make basic mistakes--I'm saying there are rules to writing a convincing story, character, and world-building, and because he's so distracted with images and animation that he hasn't even developed the characters properly. Literally, all the characters are so flip-floppy they can give someone whiplash. If you took the dialogue and changed them around to different characters, you'd never know who it belonged to in the first place. (that's my point).

He seems to be doing this backward and on the fly. Again, he simply (by now) should have understood how to apply the basic 3-character-story-arc methods that apply to novels (visual, screenplay, books), it makes no difference.

I must disagree. I find the characters have relatively well established personalities, and often even distinctive voices. Swapping their dialog around would be extremely noticeable. In fact, the scenes where the characters act wildly out of character are noteworthy precisely because they are so rare.

I also think you are partially wrong about the rules for writing. Yes, this is a sex game and thus the visuals and animations get a lot of attention. But by the same token, the demands of this story are going to be different than if it were a novel (risque or otherwise). Not all the rules translate across media directly. Using visuals to help establish characters is a vital part of this sort of game.

 

[Manuka]

In one scene, Jade Says MC "The kids have grown ..." And no husband will tolerate a photo of someone else's boyfriend in the bedroom. Tybalt has the same hair as Jade. Heredity.

That's true.

It's a problem with game rules vs reality. Absolutes don't work. Good/Evil might work for a general tendency but it isn't a guarantee in reference to everything. Good can still do evil and Evil can still do good. Example - Churches in the dark ages and their actions. Hitler (before he went totally crazy) - Turned Germany into a 1st world nation and really turned them around after WWI (and then he lost it and went crazy and went back to evil). I in no way think Hitler was a good person so please don't go there.

Good point. In all the books I've read and written, the antagonist vs protagonist is not that different on the morality spectrum. They each have their own view of what's good and what's evil. And both of them feel they are correct. That's why it's important to keep the characters consistent. When you have an MC with such a loving father as Neil and has all this love and respect for him, yet goes and basically leads on as many girls he wants, you have a conflict of character morality, to begin with. That's why the choices are important in games like this. But, it's not like DPA hasn't digressed a bit from his previous versions.

 

[Manuka]

I must disagree. I find the characters have relatively well established personalities, and often even distinctive voices. Swapping their dialog around would be extremely noticeable. In fact, the scenes where the characters act wildly out of character are noteworthy precisely because they are so rare.

I also think you are partially wrong about the rules for writing. Yes, this is a sex game and thus the visuals and animations get a lot of attention. But by the same token, the demands of this story are going to be different than if it were a novel (risque or otherwise). Not all the rules translate across media directly. Using visuals to help establish characters is a vital part of this sort of game.

Acting out of Character is literally the definition of bad writing, btw. Characters in all "well" written stories are consistent. They can have their changes, but it must be consistent with their goals.

Yeah, you're right, the focus is on it being a sex game that is solely driven by pictures (which negates his ability to write convincingly). But we're talking about writing skills. There's one determination just as there is with IQ, or with any skill. It's measured by a basic construct of ability. And there are standards you can't break like structure, or it seems wishy-washy, and no longer a storyline well written. I've edited dozens and dozens of novels, DPC, would never make it as a novelist without pictures. When you see things like "Yeah, well" repeated across all characters, that's poor writing and not distinctive. When you see "Oh... yeah, erhm..." That's also a no-no. And there is so much passive voice in this, it's insane. On top of it, he's writing what I'm assuming in 3rd Omniscient without any limits. There are only a few people in the history of writing that are able to pull that off properly. Very, very, very few.

 

[Conklingc]

Example - Maya/Josy Friends or More? Wichever way you choose to go it doesn't really affect anything. Ep5 rolls around and Maya and Josy still are all chipper with you after potentially telling you that your not worth the risk, Josy asks you for help instead of Maya her GF who happens to be standing right there, Josy and Maya both admit they still have feelings for you? So what did our choice represent? One less sex scene but that's about it.

I think the Maya/Josy situation and how it resolved in the end of episode 4 is one of the most criticized parts of this game so far. I went back to play the rejected by them path for 5 just to see what would happen, and like you said basically you miss out on the sex scene and hanging out on blanket where nothing is resolved, and a phone call later in the episode (although the phone call seemed to have the opposite tone of the blanket discussion in the relationship path suggesting they were going for a full sexual relationship).

On the rejection path the MC barely mentions they dumped him and if you go to Maya continues to profess his undying devotion claiming he would always be there for her (I assume part of this is to reopen the romance path, but it hardly feels like a natural reaction to being dumped). It does go to emphasize it's the developer's character and not ours as after being dumped by two women who pushed for days to get together and talk things out I'd have a hard time imagining ever wanting to speak to them again and would be especially cautious about opening up to them emotionally.

 

[ChipLecsap]

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Thank you all for your support!

It's been overwhelming and I feel that I haven't taken the time to thank all of you enough for helping me reach this milestone.

So, to celebrate I've prepared a reward that I will release daily until it's completely distributed.

It's a special render series I call "Beach fun".

Today's wallpaper is of Josy. I have attached a 4k and Full HD version of the render to this post.

I hope you enjoy this series! See you tomorrow with another wallpaper.

Love

Dr PinkCake

I'm not ashamed to admit, that i actually use this image as my wallpaper background on my PC. I cant wait for the rest, so i can set up a dynamically changing wallpapers.

 

[Anthony11553]

after playing a lot of games on this site, this game has really made me appreciate how little i get mad at decisions that the characters make

 

[ImperialD]

only thing that gets me about decision making is when the game takes over the MC and makes decisions for you ..... that kinda pisses me off to be honest

 

[Anthony11553]

only thing that gets me about decision making is when the game takes over the MC and makes decisions for you ..... that kinda pisses me off to be honest

i honestly can't play games where you have no control over the Mc's Personality

 

[ImperialD]

i honestly can't play games where you have no control over the Mc's Personality

in this game its like you do but its limited

 

[Anthony11553]

in this game its like you do but its limited

na i wasn't talking about this game, The creator here gets it right you can change his personality but also i feel like the mc is his own character even without my choices

 

[Wizard_Shiryuu]

Not entirely true. Even when I'm doing edits/ghostwriting for authors, and we collab, a lot of people in these books that are mentioned are there to add some depth to the story. They don't all need to be relevant to be memorable.

If Monica never comes up in the game, it won't hurt the storyline -- (at the same time, she can always be added in later via a presage) -- at least you have that idea that she is a "real" person with a "name." But if none of them were ever mentioned, the pace of the story would feel rushed, despite many parts feeling rushed. But again, he just doesn't know how to write. There are snippets of good writing, and then it's as if he falls into a mood and barrels through some of his ideas and cuts them out completely.

It is not an easy thing to write a story. I've written over a million words before I got the idea of it

Yeah, I see your point. One thing that made me think that way was Josy saying things like "my dad and Monica", but that can also be because she doesn't like her very much and says it to distance her from them.

Another point could be that having Monica in could have a nice "conflict" between her, Tommy and the MC. It's not just the name, she talks a lot about her and her relationship with her and her father. It can be just background for Josy for sure, but I think there can be more. That's another argument, though. (And mostly speculation on my part).

...And if we add Monica into the story we could #CuckTommy in more ways. I don't care we haven't seen her yet, this isn't about looks .

 

[Manuka]

Yeah, I see your point. One thing that made me think that way was Josy saying things like "my dad and Monica", but that can also be because she doesn't like her very much and says it to distance her from them.

Another point could be that having Monica in could have a nice "conflict" between her, Tommy, and the MC. It's not just the name, she talks a lot about her and her relationship with her and her father. It can be just background for Josy for sure, but I think there can be more. That's another argument, though. (And mostly speculation on my part).

...And if we add Monica into the story we could #CuckTommy in more ways. I don't care we haven't seen her yet, this isn't about looks .

I like to speculate, too. I think all of us do in some way; whatever fuels the imagination keeps us from the outside world, and that's fine by me. Too much gloom and doom lately. I still think Josy will be the end result. When Neil told him the story about Lynette coming back to him, I think of Josy coming to the MC at the very end. The MC latched on pretty fast in the beginning. And as we can see how slow this story is developing, the characters can change their feelings a hundred times before they graduate. I just hope Jill is an option.

 

[Razrback16]

only thing that gets me about decision making is when the game takes over the MC and makes decisions for you ..... that kinda pisses me off to be honest

Ya I'm really enjoying the game, but there are definitely certain parts of the game where I really don't like what the MC chooses to do as I would choose to do something else entirely.