VN Ren'Py Being a DIK [v0.11.1] [DrPinkCake]

[Malicre]

it was my consideration, I didn't mean to speak for Moskyx.


in the end the difference between being part of the relationship of Maya and Josy and being only friends, lies in those 3 scenes (in addition to the sex with what MC will follow after the preps party)

however the post party scene is still a sign that MC is still in their orbit (and DPC seems to encourage you to try again).

I never had a post party scene with them at the prep party

 

[Skode]

It looks like M&J are too central with the story and will always be there, one way or another. It is a problem, specially considering how low they end up in polls, Maya in particular (the girl with the most exposure and character development right now). I don't think DPC expected them to be that unpopular, if lots of people don't care about them they don't percieve the story as it's intended. It's like people who didn't like Megan in AL, it felt too forced for them... And they are going to be central in future plotlines too. Quinn's for example.

I think they're hurt as they have each other a literal NTR fodder in the future to the MC. If you really like one or the other you have to be wary of their big LI being literally on the scene at all times. That and they demand a Chick sentiment in the playthrough with everyone will agree is the least fun way to play and most who are doing that have the REAL incentive of Jill who is amazingly talented, beautiful, wholesome and without any of the baggage presented by the two of them so far. Shes just up and up the better alternative (not to mention comes with a free not piss off Derek or Tommy in the future card). If you like Maya or Josey then really you gotta be invested equally as much in BOTH and that's a big ask for the above reasons. I love me some Josey and I really liked earlier chapters Maya too but this combo? Nah not so much and im perfectly happy in my playthrough getting into fun Dik shenanagins with my maggot brothers whilst wooing the broken Bella and banging all the hots and teachers on the side whilst I wait to fully win her over.

 

[flippityflop]

I think we are on the same page there, but I think she's developed. We know a lot about her, motivations and personality. The thing is most people didn't like how she is (and for good reasons imo). I don't think she can be redeemed without doing a 180º that would feel out of character.

What exactly people don't like about her? And what's that about her redeeming herself (with a 180º, no less)?

 

[Cndyrvr4lf]

I think he is talking about Patreon polls. Because in F95, even if her fandom has taken a beating since episode 4, it is still one of the strongest ones. But in Patreon she usually gets destroyed, if i remember she and Quinn were the only ones without bonus images because of that. They even had a losers bracket before episode 5, that's why there are Maya renders, she won against Quinn when there were just the two of them competing.

But anyway, this is complicated for Maya fans, since the patreon polls are the ones who matter, even if i think DPC likes the characters. I imagine that the reaction to her was not what he was expecting.

Yeah I'm sure DPC thought we would all love her however that isn't the way it went. Maya is so passive, so reserved that I couldn't see myself dating her. Who wants to go through a relationship with someone who is always "whatever you want to do"? I like personality and Maya has the personality of a wet mop.

 

[Malicre]

I think they're hurt as they have each other a literal NTR fodder in the future to the MC. If you really like one or the other you have to be wary of their big LI being literally on the scene at all times. That and they demand a Chick sentiment in the playthrough with everyone will agree is the least fun way to play and most who are doing that have the REAL incentive of Jill who is amazingly talented, beautiful, wholesome and without any of the baggage presented by the two of them so far. Shes just up and up the better alternative (not to mention comes with a free not piss off Derek or Tommy in the future card). If you like Maya or Josey then really you gotta be invested equally as much in BOTH and that's a big ask for the above reasons. I love me some Josey and I really liked earlier chapters Maya too but this combo? Nah not so much and im perfectly happy in my playthrough getting into fun Dik shenanagins with my maggot brothers whilst wooing the broken Bella and banging all the hots and teachers on the side whilst I wait to fully win her over.

Jill is pretty popular but its like i said previously that by the time we get around to choosing the endgame girl i believe the mc will have issues with all the girls. I'm pretty sure DPC is going to make them all "unlikeable" in different ways just so you have to pick your poison.

100% positive that by the end none of the girls will be drama free.

 

[Alfagrem]

On the rejection path the MC barely mentions they dumped him and if you go to Maya continues to profess his undying devotion claiming he would always be there for her

To get rejected you would of had to act like a bit of a dick to the girls so if you are 'evil MC' then why not play with their emotions out of revenge?

If you just manipulated the RP system to get rejected then it might be out of character but then by manipulation - you;re not playing a true game anymore.

I tried to avoid Josy as much as possible since day 1, after she told me she's in a relationship. So I'm forced against my will to go on a date with her when I went home for a weekend, but OK, I accept that. I didn't do anything else with her, since she hasn't solved her situation yet. By then I was pursuing Maya so I can understand she becoming attached to me, and I can understand Josy's feeling something for me too even if I don't want anything with her, because I'm being nice and supportive and all. Then Josy comes to the dorm and we discover their relationship. At this point MC storms out of the room. If I'm not mistaken, I don't meet them again (appart from casual and logical encounters at the school) until DIK's party when we have that conversation at the DIK's library. I choose to be friends, they are OK with that. We won't meet again until prep's party, we share a friendly talk and Josy tells us her dad is coming.

As a friend who may have play a part on all that mess with her father, I agree to go with her, hoping I will be able to explain myself and tell her dad that nothing happened between us on that night. But this is not neccesary as the man is there just to fix things with her daughter. Nice. I escort her to the dorm like a friend would do and then she tells me out of the blue that she'd only agreed to a friendship because she felt forced to do so, and my MC, who is acting just as a supportive friend (what DPC has allowed us to be, a position I'm happy with) starts to consider his feelings for her. NO! At this point I don't have any romantic feelings for her. I'm forced to feel that way. And if I choose to stay with Maya instead of helping Josy with her father, she more or less says something similar.

And after that I don't get any more scenes with them (I can't recall where did I sleep that night, but I'm sure nothing funny happens with any of them, and of course I don't get the picnic scene). But I'm sure my MC haven't ruled out any romantic relationship with them (at least with the one I choose to stay with when Josy's dad came to the party), and that's frustrating because I really want to do so.


I really hope you are right

Edit - TL;DR: My point is that, even when we decide to be just friends, we end this chapter suspecting that decission is not being taken into account. Maybe in the future we'll see a clear friendship path thanks to that decision but as for now we don't, and that's not a sign of 'good game-writting'. Some minor variations on the script would have been enough to avoid this frustrating feeling, but they just aren't there

You tried to avoid Josy since day 1 yet when given a fair choice you decided to involve yourself in her family affairs.

Seems you hae feelings for Josy - It's just the level of them that is up for debate.

 

[Malicre]

You tried to avoid Josy since day 1 yet when given a fair choice you decided to involve yourself in her family affairs.

Seems you hae feelings for Josy - It's just the level of them that is up for debate.

Yup, you literally only go on like 1 or 2 dates with her so there was honestly no reason for you to step in and involve yourself with her family affairs. You don't open a pandora's box just to try and close it again.

 

[Holy Bacchus]

I think he is talking about Patreon polls. Because in F95, even if her fandom has taken a beating since episode 4, it is still one of the strongest ones. But in Patreon she usually gets destroyed, if i remember she and Quinn were the only ones without bonus images because of that. They even had a losers bracket before episode 5, that's why there are Maya renders, she won against Quinn when there were just the two of them competing.

But anyway, this is complicated for Maya fans, since the patreon polls are the ones who matter, even if i think DPC likes the characters. I imagine that the reaction to her was not what he was expecting.

Well here's hoping that DPC doesn't take that into consideration as they further develop this story. We don't know what his plans are for all the LIs and side girls, but I wouldn't like it if he changes them and does something drastic and possibly tragic with them simply because their patrons don't like certain characters for their own personal reasons.

Yeah I'm sure DPC thought we would all love her however that isn't the way it went. Maya is so passive, so reserved that I couldn't see myself dating her. Who wants to go through a relationship with someone who is always "whatever you want to do"? I like personality and Maya has the personality of a wet mop.

Maya is a wounded, tragic, and sympathetic character who just needs a chance to grow in confidence and come out of her shell a bit more. If she gets given a chance to do that, then I reckon she could become a formidable character.

 

[Skode]

Jill is pretty popular but its like i said previously that by the time we get around to choosing the endgame girl i believe the mc will have issues with all the girls. I'm pretty sure DPC is going to make them all "unlikeable" in different ways just so you have to pick your poison.

100% positive that by the end none of the girls will be drama free.

Im 100% on board with that and the game will be the better for it in all honesty. As long as its done organically and not have say Jill turn into a physically abusive yandere completely out of nowhere just to add drama and its this kind of drama I was eluding to as being the issue with M and J as simply put to good doctor isn't sugar coating them, their feelings for one another (and you) as well as their baggage and is openly exposing you to it all. Your decision will be made from a place of much pondering and I think that's why I love this game. I give a shit about all the characters and I legit often take a minute and ponder my choices - i confessed I wanted to be with them (well wanted Josey mostly but whatevs and was rejected in a realistic and feasable way that actually made me go 'well I tried, i laid my hand on the table, was rejected but we will remain friends and I will move on'. There was no fury on my part as a gamer, I actually respect how well he nailed the whole situation and respect to the dev for not just making this a harem game where there are no consequences - its what makes the game stand out so much as the characters feel realised and realistic.

Every relationship is gonna have ups and downs but id like to think its more a case of we acknowledge that vs picking a poison as whilst no one is perfect its peoples more redeeming qualities we are attracted to vs balancing their negative ones in my experience. Bella is my main target (arguably one one at this point from the main 5) and there has been no subtetly in ominious forboding regarding her lol, weve all noticed this but those of us who are pursuing her and doing this despite this. We know what we are getting ourselves into - both the good and inevitable bad lol

 

[Wizard_Shiryuu]

What exactly people don't like about her? And what's that about her redeeming herself (with a 180º, no less)?

The constant lying and half truths while asking to be 100% sincere with her misleading us and making things worse in the process. Not having an initiative to fix her own problems and always doing what she's told to do. Her personality is set and people don't like it, so either you drastically change it or people will continue not to like her.

 

[Malicre]

Every relationship is gonna have ups and downs but id like to think its more a case of we acknowledge that vs picking a poison as whilst no one is perfect its peoples more redeeming qualities we are attracted to vs balancing their negative ones in my experience. Bella is my main target (arguably one one at this point from the main 5) and there has been no subtetly in ominious forboding regarding her lol, weve all noticed this but those of us who are pursuing her and doing this despite this. We know what we are getting ourselves into - both the good and inevitable bad lol

Bella is great but i also believe shes the one thats going to have the MOST drama, i expect half of her fans to hate her for awhile once the drama starts.

 

[TrainHardnett]

It looks like M&J are too central with the story and will always be there, one way or another. It is a problem, specially considering how low they end up in polls, Maya in particular (the girl with the most exposure and character development right now). I don't think DPC expected them to be that unpopular, if lots of people don't care about them they don't percieve the story as it's intended. It's like people who didn't like Megan in AL, it felt too forced for them... And they are going to be central in future plotlines too. Quinn's for example.

And thats 1 of my gripes with AL's writing, the relationship with Megan was indeed very forced (especially the fact you cannot reject her at any point except for "The C.H.O.I.C.E."). On the on other hand it has been handled better here but not by much. At least you have the choice not to pursue either of them for a relationship and only meet them at places that cannot be avoided. In my friends Sage route i have only ran into them 3 times that made sense and you don't really interact with them that much. As for Quinn, she is indeed my most hated female NPC in the game, for a good reason, her character and writing makes you hate her guts and its a real shame some other better characters are tied to her character arc I chose not to do because of how much I cannot stand her. For Maya's situation i think the way she was written and the things she did that felt a bit out of character in episode 4 made people dislike her greatly.

Btw can anyone upload the walkthrough to mega or something as the link to the files in the OP is broken and the rar files cannot be opened.

 

[moskyx]

You tried to avoid Josy since day 1 yet when given a fair choice you decided to involve yourself in her family affairs.

Seems you hae feelings for Josy - It's just the level of them that is up for debate.

Yup, you literally only go on like 1 or 2 dates with her so there was honestly no reason for you to step in and involve yourself with her family affairs. You don't open a pandora's box just to try and close it again.

Her family affairs are somewhat based on me being at her house (btw, I didn't want to go, but I was forced to). As a friend (I must insist: this is the relationship DPC has allowed us to choose) I feel I should support her and help her to sort things out because it was just a friendly dinner. But somehow if I care for a female friend it means I love her. And that's a big no in RL and it should be too in a game where you can choose if you want to be a friend or a lover. Then again, if I don't help her with her family issues I got a similar confession but from Maya so the problem is the same: at the end of chapter 5 I'm not really sure if my choice of being just friends does matter or not. Frustrating.

 

[Donettes]

I really hope you are right

I mean that's what game code says so unless DPC changes it in future episodes (almost impossible I'd say because why else set two flags there in the first place?) that's THE choice where you can decide to pursue one or neither of them in friends path

Edit - TL;DR: My point is that, even when we decide to be just friends, we end this chapter suspecting that decission is not being taken into account. Maybe in the future we'll see a clear friendship path thanks to that decision but as for now we don't, and that's not a sign of 'good game-writting'. Some minor variations on the script would have been enough to avoid this frustrating feeling, but they just aren't there

I'd say the "just friends" decision in ep 4 doesn't turn off the MC (not you, the MC) feelings for the girls. Because while you say you don't care about Josy and your previous decisions were based on avoiding her as much as possible, MC does because he has/had a crush on her since they were working together in the minimart. And it's the same with Maya. But as he says in the talk with Derek in the kitchen, "I'm not the kinda guy to break up a happy relationship", so for him (again the MC, not you) the decision of "just friends" means at that moment (ep 4) "I don't want to risk their relationship". Now, it's in ep 5 where you as a player can choose if the MC really wants to be just friends with them or if he has feelings for Josy or Maya.
That's a flaw like you said before and I agree with you on this but that's how DPC has done it

 

[moskyx]

I mean that's what game code says so unless DPC changes it in future episodes (almost impossible I'd say because why else set two flags there in the first place?) that's THE choice where you can decide to pursue one or neither of them in friends path



I'd say the "just friends" decision in ep 4 doesn't turn off the MC (not you, the MC) feelings for the girls. Because while you say you don't care about Josy and your previous decisions were based on avoiding her as much as possible, MC does because he has/had a crush on her since they were working together in the minimart. And it's the same with Maya. But as he says in the talk with Derek in the kitchen, "I'm not the kinda guy to break up a happy relationship", so for him (again the MC, not you) the decision of "just friends" means at that moment (ep 4) "I don't want to risk their relationship". Now, it's in ep 5 where you as a player can choose if the MC really wants to be just friends with them or if he has feelings for Josy or Maya.
That's a flaw like you said before and I agree with you on this but that's how DPC has done it

I honestly didn't remember that choice at the fridge. You are right on this, I agree with this character view, but I would've liked that 'final' decision to be made while confronting them face to face as normal people do, not by talking to Derek. Basically because I already have the chance to do that, I took it and it wasn't what I was expecting then

 

[flippityflop]

The constant lying and half truths while asking to be 100% sincere with her misleading us and making things worse in the process. Not having an initiative to fix her own problems and always doing what she's told to do. Her personality is set and people don't like it, so either you drastically change it or people will continue not to like her.

Ugh... again with the lies.
Fuck it, even so. Have you at least considered it (even a little) that she might have a reason to withhold that information from someone she barely knows? Don't you think that in her situation that would be the sensible thing to do?

And yes, Maya is not exactly a social butterfly. And no, she doesn't take any initiative because she's perpetually terrified of doing the wrong thing and being judged for it, or worse - losing what little comfort and happiness she has.

Not liking someone's traits or quirks is one thing, but judging someone and holding that against them while they're being nothing but nice to you, is just... bad?

 

[Holy Bacchus]

The constant lying and half truths while asking to be 100% sincere with her misleading us and making things worse in the process. Not having an initiative to fix her own problems and always doing what she's told to do. Her personality is set and people don't like it, so either you drastically change it or people will continue not to like her.

She's 18/19, so her personality is certainly not "set" as this is the time of her life when she can really start to change and grow and become a different person, and she's already shown that with the picnic scene where she made a very mature decision all by herself to slow things down and see where this relationship might lead rather than try to force anything just because they feel they have to.

Her earlier behaviour was also that of a defensive person, someone who's been hurt in the past and tries to shield themselves from having it happen again. It was never malicious or duplicitous in any way and it doesn't come from a bad place in terms of being deliberately misleading. It was just her misguided way to try and protect herself and very much the kind of actions you'd expect from someone of that age who still has a lot to learn about how to properly deal with situations like this.

 

[moskyx]

And thats 1 of my gripes with AL's writing, the relationship with Megan was indeed very forced (especially the fact you cannot reject her at any point except for "The C.H.O.I.C.E."). On the on other hand it has been handled better here but not by much. At least you have the choice not to pursue either of them for a relationship and only meet them at places that cannot be avoided. In my friends Sage route i have only ran into them 3 times that made sense and you don't really interact with them that much. As for Quinn, she is indeed my most hated female NPC in the game, for a good reason, her character and writing makes you hate her guts and its a real shame some other better characters are tied to her character arc I chose not to do because of how much I cannot stand her. For Maya's situation i think the way she was written and the things she did that felt a bit out of character in episode 4 made people dislike her greatly.

Btw can anyone upload the walkthrough to mega or something as the link to the files in the OP is broken and the rar files cannot be opened.

So the only way to not feeling 'forced' on the Maya/Josy affair is to neglect them completely. In a game with so much choices, if the script only makes sense by taking the most radical ones and anything in between leads you to feel there's something odd on how characters reacts to them... then it's not that well-written. I get there have to be some main unskippable events but if you can't reach them in what feels a 'natural' way following all available paths, then the game's design is to blame.
I'm repeating myself here. The game is great, technically the best around, but I don't see the narrative masterpiece many people see. Sure if you happen to play one of the main, 'perfect' routes you don't see its flaws, but when you go out of the rails there are several things than don't fit so well. It seems to me it's a little too ambitious for author's current abilities and we'll see how he wraps things together, but sure he has improved a lot since AL and kudos for trying. I mean, 7000 patrons can't be wrong.

 

[Donettes]

I honestly didn't remember that choice at the fridge. You are right on this, I agree with this character view, but I would've liked that 'final' decision to be made while confronting them face to face as normal people do, not by talking to Derek. Basically because I already have the chance to do that, I took it and it wasn't what I was expecting then

I think all of us agree here, the library scene with M&J was very poorly executed. And as it has been said here several times, ep 5 tries to fix that disaster although it is forced to drag some flaws of ep 4, like what you say about not confronting and clarifying everyone's feelings in that discussion in the library if you choose just friends or they reject us. Because in the end Maya/Josy tell you what they really feel when one of them are alone with you, and about what you really feel (or choose to feel), you end up talking to Derek and not to them

 

[Holy Bacchus]

Ugh... again with the lies.
Fuck it, even so. Have you at least considered it (even a little) that she might have a reason to withhold that information from someone she barely knows? Don't you think that in her situation that would be the sensible thing to do?

And yes, Maya is not exactly a social butterfly. And no, she doesn't take any initiative because she's perpetually terrified of doing the wrong thing and being judged for it, or worse - losing what little comfort and happiness she has.

Not liking someone's traits or quirks is one thing, but judging someone and holding that against them while they're being nothing but nice to you, is just... bad?

The 2 most common "arguments":

1. "Maya's a proven liar" - No, she simply didn't feel like sharing a lot about herself with someone she just met, which is a perfectly normal thing.
2. "She wasn't honest about her relationship and lead us on" - Partly, but even if she had been it wouldn't have stopped the MC as we know from how he continued to pursue Josy whilst knowing she was "in a relationship", doing all sorts of things with Sage and agreeing to be FWB knowing she still technically has a boyfriend, and pursuing Bella and Jade despite knowing they are married women.

It oftentimes feels like the anti-Maya/Josy crowd believe that because these characters aren't infallible that it makes them terrible characters and you'd think they were at Leah's level the way some people talk about them. They're teenagers around 18/19 years old and how many people have you known at that age that are emotionally and socially mature enough to be able to handle tough situations the "right" way? They made mistakes, big whoop, it's not like what they did is so horrifically and devastatingly bad that they are not completely irredeemable characters that deserve to be so fiercely disliked.

Also, the MC is not innocent in all of this either and I think people forget that. He's playing with their emotions just as much as they play with his because these are 2 girls who are going through personally difficult times, who are in need of comfort, companionship, and support, and they find it with him. Both of them develop feelings for him and feel like they want to be with him, meanwhile he's humping his way across campus and developing significant romantic relationships with at least 3 other women, all the while leading on both Maya and Josy to believe that they could have a better future with him by letting go of each other to be with him instead. He's also not being honest with them about his relationships with other women, so when all this comes out I'd be surprised if they take it well even after the deal they've just made.