VN Ren'Py Being a DIK [v0.11.1] [DrPinkCake]

[Animesh Anomitra]

Which one could be the most logical narrative arc DIK/CHIK of the MC?

This was a great read. It made me think that the answer to the question is "Neutral". I don't know how many people here are fans of the original Star Trek series - there's an episode in that ("The Enemy Within") where a transporter malfunction splits Kirk into two - one, a thoughtful man who's indecisive (i.e Chick) and another, a brute whose only concerns are drinking, brawling and forcing himself on the female crew members (i.e DIK). Towards the end of the episode, when Dr McCoy is trying to convince Chick Kirk to accept reintegration, the latter says something like "I don't want that thing inside me" to which McCoy responds "but it's that thing that gives you the strength to command."

So when you say this...

I don't think makes any sense that a CHIK MC would gain the respect of the DIKs, a bunch of "alpha males", or at least, "wannabe alpha males".

...you are probably right, but...

It seems that the game is drifting into a more "film noir" style, so in the future the MC will have to deal with more dangerous problems regarding the drugs and prostitution ring of Quinn. Again, I don't see a CHIK MC having the right stuff for that.

...a DIK MC would deal with this badly as well.

When he says to Sage in the party of the "preps" somethin like that he has been so far an idiot playing along with other's orders and manipulations, it's the moment he fully wake up and becomes a mature guy, and the first thing he does is to take a step forward and go to deal with Cathy's problems, something other DIKs aren´t able to do. That moment he´s a leader already.

This para sums up for me that the logical path is neutral - only the presences of Chick sensibilities would care to think about Cathy in this moment but it needs DIK sensibilities to take the action.

 

[Coinzell]

Doesn't work, he rejects all non-friend messages.. so, here is the link, if someone had better access toDrPinkCake, perhaps you can let them know this may be unauthorized Jill and Bella content floating out there...

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It's a fan art though. And it's also presented on this site. In this thread actually, and if i remember correctly in fan-art thread. It's quite old actually.

 

[dalli_x]

You have named the two decisions that I think the MC would reject anyway. Quinn makes his offer at the beginning of the game, when the MC is still mostly a CHIK or NEUTRAL. He would never accept that. It´s an stupid scene, anyway. Quinn would be too smart to make that offer to a guy that barely knows and can rat her out. At least, I she would have make some photos of the naked MC into the house of the HOTs as a guarantee, or something.

And when the MC becomes the leader of the DIKs in the task of repairing the house, even a DIK would not accept the reward. Why does he need strip-teases? He's fucking all the girls he wants at that point anyway...

I´m not saying that a DIK MC would adopt EVERY SINGLE DIK choice and become a massive DIK. I said in my previous comment that at certain point, he would start adopting mostly DIK decisions. I said the MC would not be a CHIK any more, but a DIK. Not a "MASSIVE DICK" or even a "HUGE DICK". Just a DIK. The MC must remain somehow as a person of certain integrity to inspire the DIKs (starting with Rusty, that starts behaving as a better person by the influence of the MC) or to help Cathy (even if it´s by fucking her). He just can't be again the sweet, quiet guy that avoids conflicts, is humiliated by others without a fight and is just played like a fiddle by other characters, starting Maya and Josy. He must grow a pair at certain point of the story. If not, it would not be logical that the MC does the things he must do in order of advancing the plot. But, if he becomes a total selfish guy like Tommy, it would not have any sense either.

Don't be fooled by the Neutral Affinity. I think it is actually quite simple with the affinity. I'll use a language that everyone should understand.

-1(DIK) = 0 (NEUTRAL) = 1 (CHICK)

Now I think it should be clear what DPC wants with the affinity. The more massive the MC DIK is, the more shit it will eat. Don't get me wrong. He can still make Chick decisions, but by default he is DIK. The MC will have his fun all right. But he will eventually sue for custody of his child in court.

In Neutral, the MC does not take a clear position. He can make Dik and Chick decisions through the status, but he won't make the right decision. This will lead to conflict sooner or later. In the process, he could lose all LI's.

With Chick affinity he will win at least one LI for himself. But it could become up to four LI's. This is decided with the Major Choices Scale. If you manage to keep 3 Bars Dik, 2 Bars Neutral, 7 Bars Chick through the choices. But I don't know if DPC will take away more bars of Scale in the future. Then I will try to get the scale to 3-2-3 for me.

 

[`Ray`]

According to my research, the next preview should drop anytime between 10-13 this month

 

[dalli_x]

I think that the character that is pure NEUTRAL in this game is Jacob. A totally reasonable guy. Not too bland, not too crazy. Sensible enough to be an artist, wild enough to accomplish at least some of the proves of the "Hell Week". Great follower, so far (maybe it turns out that he's the traitor that posted the photo of Cathy, but I don't think so). But he don't have charisma enough to be a leader for the DIKs.

For being the leader of the DIKs only make sense that you are a DIK yourself. Again, not a MASSIVE DIK or HUGE DIK. Not a Tommy. Just some drops of initiative, charisma and aggressiveness (in certain moments when aggressiveness is necessary) to add to the cocktail of a reasonable main character. By definition, NEUTRAL people don´t have that kind of initiative, charisma and aggressiveness. They follow instructions of people that have that kind of traits. If a guy like Jacob would have the right stuff to be the leader of the DIKs, he would be the leader of the DIKs. A leader has to take a clear position to impose himself.

Again, I´m thinking in terms of what is the most logical path so far. I don't know what is going to write the dev. Maybe he actually tries to lead the player to a NEUTRAL position and at some point will start punishing DIKs and CHIKs players. It would not be logical, IMO. The dev will write what he wants, but after every update, any player will think "this new update has all the sense according the previous ones" or "the dev have lost his mind in this update". Will see. If the idea of the dev is that what makes sense to get the best possible ending is a full NEUTRAL MC, I will be disappointed.

If a person is to lead other people, that person must not be a DIK, because a DIK becomes a dictator. He must also not be too neutral, because decisions have to be made.

The best leader for a group of people is a person who has changed from DIK to CHICK.

The term "alpha" is used as an animal metaphor for assertive, dominant people - primarily men - in leadership situations to characterize position and habitus within a group or movement. The term can have a partly positive, partly negative connotation.

In the negative sense, alpha can be similar in meaning to authoritarian, dominant, unwilling to compromise, power-hungry, and unwilling to cooperate (DIK-TOMMY).

The positive aspects can essentially be summarized with the following adjectives: self-confident, proactive, committed, self-reliant and self-critical. (CHICK-RUSTY)

 

[Animesh Anomitra]

I think a pure NEUTRAL MC would not have spirit and charisma enough to, logically, become the leader of the DIKs. In real life, NEUTRAL people tend to pass unnoticed. Are good followers, but not leaders.

By including a reference to Captain Kirk in my previous reply, I was arguing the opposite. Although only if you define the Chick-DIK spectrum as Chick = thoughtful, considered approach, DIK=shoot-first-ask-questions-later approach, which is how I think of it - in this case, Neutral represents getting the balance right. If

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are the real values and behaviours of a leader, a massive DIK and massive Chick MC would be poor leaders.

Whatever other criticisms one can level at BaDIK, how many other AVNs cause people to muse on the nature of good leadership? I came(!) for the porn, stayed for the philosophy.

 

[realjitter]

To me MD and MC differentiate only in 2 categories which are using your fists or not and the overall language tone...
It has to be that simple because if you start arguing about what makes a Dik and a Chick charactar you quickly find yourself writing 5000+ variations of possible character traits and behaviours..
Just to give one example. The "Chick" can be an even bigger "Dik" and vice versa....
It's all just a matter of perception and interpretation

I personally would have preferred the fallout variation with "hard ass" and "kiss ass" which would make a little bit more sense because in 99% of all the AVN games you play just some hypocrite dude

 

[dalli_x]

You have never seen an alpha dog in action. He's not a dictator, but a leader. Other dogs doesn't follow him because they fear him, but because they trust him. Self-confident, proactive and committed are the traits of a DIK (again, a DIK, not a MASSIVE-HUGE DIK, that would be Tommy). Rusty doesn´t have those traits. He's starting to acquire some them, after the speech of the MC, but not yet. That's why is the MC the one that takes the initiative of going to talk with Cathy first and try to fix the problem. And after that, as good DIK, gets his reward: the blowjob. Rusty goes two days later, and because he doesn´t have other alternatives. He's not assertive nor committed.

A CHICK in this game, first of all, avoid all kind of conflicts. He's not confident enough in himself to face a conflict, even when he's been bullied or threatened. That's the main way you get "CHIK points": by not fighting. Swallowing the insults and threats of everybody. Not the psychological trait of a leader.

Also, the CHIK does not actively look for pussy. He never check out the girls, never try to make a move on them... That's the other main way to get "CHIK points". The CHIK MC just waits until the girls approach him. Those would be mainly Maya and Josy: they both take the initiative to attract the MC when they feel lonely, then ditch him out when they reunite again in the "this is my girlfriend" scene, and then they try regain him again by forcing him to meet with them after the party. The MC has a passive role in this relationship. Even they are they, the two girls the ones who kiss the MC first. The both, together or by their own, play the MC like a fiddle. Again, not the psychological trait of a leader.

The DIK doesn´t avoid conflicts by default (but he doesn´t need to fight every single occasion), and actively look for pussy. Those are the main ways to gain "DIK points". Two traits that, according the logic of the game, would make the DIKs respect and follow the MC.

The way you look at it, the leader of the DIKs has to be, to a certain extent, a DIK.

Read my post again. I wrote something about change and a little further down there is something about negative and positive. After that, think about it.

You should read a text as it is written and not as you like it.

 

[hyfka]

Who you respect more, a guy, who accept quinn offer to be able to have sex. or a guy, who can Charm , womans like Bella, girls like Josy, Jill, Sage.

Accepting Quinns offer isn't less respectable (and neither is cheating on tests imo ), it's like she said, like going to a restaurant. But I guess that depends on who you ask. Josy and Bella might find it not respectable, while for Tommy or Rusty it would be a total non-issue.

Getting freaky with the girls for money is going to a restaurant and paying for a perfectly cooked burger,
romancing Josy is staying at home spending all day preparing a salad

 

[Lockyn87]

Does anyone know when the next release might be? it's been three months

 

[mindern]

I think that the character that is pure NEUTRAL in this game is Jacob. A totally reasonable guy. Not too bland, not too crazy. Sensible enough to be an artist, wild enough to accomplish at least some of the proves of the "Hell Week". Great follower, so far (maybe it turns out that he's the traitor that posted the photo of Cathy, but I don't think so). But he don't have charisma enough to be a leader for the DIKs.

For being the leader of the DIKs only make sense that you are a DIK yourself. Again, not a MASSIVE DIK or HUGE DIK. Not a Tommy. Just some drops of initiative, charisma and aggressiveness (in certain moments when aggressiveness is necessary) to add to the cocktail of a reasonable main character. By definition, NEUTRAL people don´t have that kind of initiative, charisma and aggressiveness. They follow instructions of people that have that kind of traits. If a guy like Jacob would have the right stuff to be the leader of the DIKs, he would be the leader of the DIKs. A leader has to take a clear position to impose himself. And, in this game, the MC has to start being an unofficial leader to the DIKs. The player can't pass the ball to others, so far, but score himself.

Again, I´m thinking in terms of what is the most logical path so far. I don't know what is going to write the dev. Maybe he actually tries to lead the player to a NEUTRAL position and at some point will start punishing DIKs and CHIKs players. It would not be logical, IMO. The dev will write what he wants, but after every update, any player will think "this new update has all the sense according the previous ones" or "the dev has lost his mind in this update". Will see. If the idea of the dev is that what makes sense to get the best possible ending is a full NEUTRAL MC, I will be disappointed. Mass Effect III's ending, level of disappointment

Maybe the MC won’t have to “fit” as leader of the DIKs but the DIKs will “fit” the MC’s affinity?

As in you’re assuming the MC will be leader of the DIKs frat as it currently is. That he would need all these traits to lead the group who get in fist
Fights and have cumpetitions.

Maybe the narrative will change the DIKs. As you get more choices and control you can dial back on these traits of the DIKs. A full CHICK mc can drop all the strippers, violence and tag teaming Aerith and lead them to being just a regular frat. It’s already happening with the MC putting a stopper on the parties so they can funnel cash into repairing the place.

The frat might change so what’s “logically” best to lead them is hard to answer. Take the current mini game where you have to rebuild the mansion. It can be failed so the frat will change depending on choices.

personally… I think a full DIK would lead the place to ruin. Violence, underage drinking… drugs, prostitutes. These things don’t usually go unnoticed and Rusty has covered due to his name and wealth but what’s a full DIK mc gonna do when the police come a-knockin?

My money isn’t on the MC needing to be played a specific way to fit into the role, the role will change based on his decisions instead. Play full CHICK and you won’t need violence and roguish charisma to get what you want. Everyone will just be onboard with rebuilding the frat as some elderly care home helping, studious, only party on the weekends without drugs and strippers Frat. A lot of People are already on board with a full “help the community” frat. Even Tommy pitches into the rebuild effort eventually.

I’m betting the frat will mirror the MC. His affinity will become the DIKs affinity.

 

[gamingdevil800]

Does anyone know when the next release might be? it's been three months

About that:

It's probably coming in October, September if we're lucky.

 

[PashafromRussia]

Does anyone know when the next release might be? it's been three months

Most likely, the update will be released in late September or October.

 

[mindern]

That's not the point. We are not talking about the future, since nobody knows the plans of the dev, but about the chapters already released. The debate was about the more logical path of the MC to be as coherent as possible with the initial premise of the game and the things the MC has done so far in the plot and don´t depend of the choices of the player: becoming a full member of DIKs, leading them in the task of repairing the house, taking the initiative of talking with Cathy and trying to fix the problem with the leaked photo, etc.

Fine, then full DIK or neutral isn’t the way because the DIKs aren’t a street gang or pack of wolves.

All this “alpha” shit people are spewing isn’t how you run a business… and the frat is a business as Sage makes clear.

A logical leader of the DIKs plays the game. He knows the frat exists at the universities discretion. He knows he needs money from brothers (either directly via working or in their fees) and alumni. He knows the police can and will shut them down.

Look how Burke came down on Chad for one fist fight? The frats are a specific business operating in a system more stringent with its rules than regular society.

The “logical” leader of the frat would be all the things Sage talks about. An ass kisser for when alumni turn up. A rule follower. He would play the game, collect fees and avoid getting the place shut down.

DIKs aren’t some military squad from a video game. All this “alpha” stuff and “charisma” are insignificant and have little impact.

You can’t fight city hall. A well known idiom. Bureaucracy isn’t gonna give a shit how the MC handles himself in a fight or how many girls he can fuck in an evening. Nepotism isn’t gonna suddenly favour him because he smoked weed on a rooftop. Remaining financially solvent isn’t achieved by cheating on exams and fingering girls in swimming pools. These systems respond to the behaviour exhibited by a CHICK MC.

We all like to think an “alpha” makes a good leader… it doesn’t. Not in reality and not for someone as insignificant as a frat leader. Playing “the game” and doing what society wants is how you get places. A sad truth but the logic is we’re talking about the leader of a bunch of teenagers operating under the permission of a university. The defining trait they need is doing what that university wants. A DIK doesn’t do that.

 

[felicemastronzo]

.
Just in the recent episode, tell me which is more of a Better Leader quality .
A Dik MC who selfishly Accept the Pink Rose VIP Ticket, when their mansion is trash, and desperately need every penny to fix it. - BTW Derek reject it if he won .
or the "Chick " MC Who reject the reward , because they need the money more than anything.
and MC who pick the Elder home, because its actually pay better that is the most logical choice.
Who would you respect more ?
just for you interest, the Rusty, the leader pick the elder home, to show an example , and you gain +rp point with the Diks also if you volunteer.
Who you respect more, a guy, who accept quinn offer to be able to have sex. or a guy, who can Charm , womans like Bella, girls like Josy, Jill, Sage.
Yeah standing up for yourself and fighting give you respect, you can slip those decisions, I do. But to Say that a Chick MC would not gain respect and not make sense is a far stretch, IMO. not to mention most of them is just a "wannabe alpha". freeloaders, leechers who enjoyed Rusty's dad money. and Jacob was such a pussy he was not dare to make a move on a girl, unless you cleared the path for him. .

but i guess if you only think black and white system, Massive this or that, you might think the way you think. But the affinity can only be Chick and neutral and Dik, there might be a scale, but it not really affect anything. I think there was only one time, or 2 where the actula Massive Dik or Huge dik, scale come in to play . and they were pretty much meaningless lewd moments, unimportant for the main story.

but to be fair, that is the only CHICK decision that brings advantages with DIKs.
and it's also a decision that DPC urges you to reject (if you give me a VIP pass, it makes me curious to find out what I'll find there)

In the other cases it tends to be the DIK decisions that pay more in terms of the esteem of the DIK brothers:
beating up a Jock is always a merit
celebrating madly at the pink rose leads to get Nichole's autograph
accepting a joint from Tommy leads to public sex.
Accepting Jade's courtship leads to sex with a teacher.
Also in chapter seven, kicking the Jocks out of the party allows Jacob to have fun.


it's hard to imagine that the DIKS would prefer an MC who behaves in the opposite way.

I find mindern 's hypothesis interesting, I don't believe in it very much, but it would be a really nice twist if at a certain point the DIKs in front of an excessively nonchalant MC would turn their backs on him and choose Tommy, because crazy for crazy we might as well choose the one with the most seniority

 

[mindern]

but to be fair, that is the only CHICK decision that brings advantages with DIKs.
and it's also a decision that DPC urges you to reject (if you give me a VIP pass, it makes me curious to find out what I'll find there)

In the other cases it tends to be the DIK decisions that pay more in terms of the esteem of the DIK brothers:
beating up a Jock is always a merit
celebrating madly at the pink rose leads to get Nichole's autograph
accepting a joint from Tommy leads to public sex.
Accepting Jade's courtship leads to sex with a teacher.
Also in chapter seven, kicking the Jocks out of the party allows Jacob to have fun.


it's hard to imagine that the DIKS would prefer an MC who behaves in the opposite way.

I find mindern 's hypothesis interesting, I don't believe in it very much, but it would be a really nice twist if at a certain point the DIKs in front of an excessively nonchalant MC would turn their backs on him and choose Tommy, because crazy for crazy we might as well choose the one with the most seniority

To be fair is the DIKs liking him the central element of a leader? Ideally everyone would love their leader. But you can’t always do what people like. Sometimes being a leader means making decisions people don’t like.

It’s a common mistake leaders make. Caring about what their subordinates think of them. It’s obviously a factor but a leader who prioritises their subordinates liking them over what’s best for the group as a whole isn’t a good leader.

Every boss could make their staff love them by just letting them do what ever they like, pay them to play video games. That isn’t a good leader.

Sage goes into it, running a frat is more than just being friends and decisions the DIKs individually like isn’t always what’s best for the frat.

does getting a Jacob laid make up for upsetting the Jocks? Pushing them in the pool and such. A leader would diffuse that situation so nobody trashes their house again. Sure, Jacob would appreciate getting laid but good leadership isn’t always about making people happy.

 

[Laport Deminis]

One of the most important assets of a good leader is not to fuck every girl insight. That's not a leader material, is an aashole who most of people wants to break his head. Licking Ashley pussy, fucking Heather, fucking Maya and Josy... that wouldnt work. And you can see the results... the whole fucking Arieth almoast detroy the DIKs.

 

[felicemastronzo]

To be fair is the DIKs liking him the central element of a leader? Ideally everyone would love their leader. But you can’t always do what people like. Sometimes being a leader means making decisions people don’t like.

It’s a common mistake leaders make. Caring about what their subordinates think of them. It’s obviously a factor but a leader who prioritises their subordinates liking them over what’s best for the group as a whole isn’t a good leader.

Every boss could make their staff love them by just letting them do what ever they like, pay them to play video games. That isn’t a good leader.

Sage goes into it, running a frat is more than just being friends and decisions the DIKs individually like isn’t always what’s best for the frat.

does getting a Jacob laid make up for upsetting the Jocks? Pushing them in the pool and such. A leader would diffuse that situation so nobody trashes their house again. Sure, Jacob would appreciate getting laid but good leadership isn’t always about making people happy.

in absolute terms you would also be right, but also the chronicle is full of politicians who do nothing but promise what the people want and don't fight for what they need. and it seems to me that they are quite successful around the world

and if this is true in real life let alone in a context like that of BADIK, what does a DIK want from its president/leader if not simply that he organises parties with lots of beautiful girls present? what other great tasks would the president of a fraternity have?

it seems to me that even in Sage's activity a big part is always to organize parties or make sure that HOTs are invited to these parties.

one thing is the leader they would need, another is what they would want. if Rusty's father had continued to pay Mc he could have continued to keep his speech in his pocket

 

[JaZy2]

Excuse me if this has already been answered, but can we get Lily if MC is a Pure CHICK ? and are there some advantages if MC is Chick instead of Dik when pursuing Lily?
My sincere thanks to everyone who answered.

 

[mindern]

That's not the point either. You have to play according the internal logical of the game and the options the game gives to you, not according what you thing a good leader would be. For example, you can´t be an "ass kisser for when alumni turn up" in this game so far. There is no "fighting the city hall" in this game so far. You are talking about things that are not in the game. I´m talking about things that are in the game.

And yes, if you think in a logical way, the MC would need to be respected by the DIKs when he gives them the speech to stop crying and start working in the repairs of the house. That kind of speech, if not comes from a guy with personal charisma and that has gained the respect of his pairs, would not be heard. Remember that the MC is the "new guy". There are senior members of the frat. Nobody expects that the "new guy" in a organization starts leading when there is a big problem. If the MC can do it, logically, is because he has earned already the respect of the other members. By being a DIK. That's the most logical path: start the game as a CHIK, then suffer humiliations and disappointments, learning from those, growing a pair and becoming a DIK: a guy that doesn´t avoid conflicts if they come, is not afraid to fight if he has to, specially against the enemies of the frat and his brothers, and actively get pussies. That the essence of the DIK fraternity in a nutshell, after all, and the traits that the other DIKs would admire and respect.

So in your restrictive scenario the best route is neutral. Because we’re not picking what is actually sensible we’re using existing knowledge of the outcomes to pick what’s best based on what we know to be the outcome of our choices. Being DIK, neutral or CHICK isn’t “logically” better. There’s no logic here because we’re dealing with a known quantity. This shits axiomatic.

it’s just choosing whatever choice we know to be best because that’s how DPC wrote it. It isn’t “logical” to throw a brick at a cow to open a car door but if DPC wrote the scene in such a way that MC throwing a brick caused the door to open… then that’s obviously the best choice. Logic isn’t coming into this if we’re not extrapolating into the future or outside of the story.

I got confused by the use of the word “logically”. As in I thought we had to extrapolate using logic. Combine things we know to create something we don’t know. There’s no logic to working out what route is best as of right now if you don’t want anyone discussing things we don’t know… with no assumptions about the future because DPC wrote this game. We know what route is “best” depending on the criteria we choose for what is “best”.

Neutral gives you the flexibility to jump onto whatever unique train of thought DPC used. So… neutral.

Edit: I’ve thought about it, the best route is the one where the MC save scums the mini game for rebuilding the mansion so you get the jobs that pay enough to already have the mansions windows fixed.

This is my point. The games outcomes aren’t based on logic they’re based on whatever DPC decides. The “logic” to being the best leader comes down to if you’re willing to reload a mini game so the good jobs come up.

Out of every possible game state we have, in my opinion the most impactful is having windows and being able to party again. In terms of all the arbitrary criteria on what makes a good leader you’ve put forward the best leader is the one save scumming.

this is the issue with your question if you can’t extrapolate. It comes down to cold hard flags in the games code.