VN Ren'Py Being a DIK [v0.11.1] [DrPinkCake]

[OFT]

When it comes to story telling, an argument can be made that Why is the most compelling of the five Ws. It's nice, and even necessary, to know Who did What to whom, When and Where they did it, and even How. But the Why reveals their motivation. It's what allows people to emotionally bond with characters. Without it, there is no understanding of the reasons behind anyone's actions or how a story came to be. Imagine if you were unaware of why:

• A mechanic sabotaged a car
• Seven people killed themselves
• Two people did not kiss until their 3rd date
• An executioner refused to kill a condemned criminal
• Your roommate and potential lover didn't reveal she was in a relationship with another woman

Without knowing why, these actions are simply that - actions - and they will affect you emotionally no further than however the actions themselves affect you. Back stories help develop personalities and explain why people do the things they do, and it's the emotional connections in BaDIK that puts it at the top of games in this genre.

 

[`Ray`]

Could the DIK Mansion have been destroyed by someone who knows the MC better. Maybe it was Vinny, if he is in a relationship with Zoey? So as revenge against the MC?

Check out the screenshot!!! Especially the three veins on his tail. Somehow it reminds me of the first quest.

Spoiler

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First of all, My attention goes to Maya and nothing else ...

Secondly, Is it some kind of fetish to call dick, a tail ?

Spoiler: This will cause confusion as to which one has to go inside...

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Thirdly and the main point, Why would the Person destroy a whole mansion, just for revenge and even only for a single guy? The best revenge choice for him should be hurt the girl MC loves...

And why would Vinny want revenge? Because MC put his tail inside her Gf's Cave?

 

[Daver]

yeah really (or rly if you prefer). Are you amazed, our funny guy?

It's troll time, isn't it?

 

[n0cn1l]

Quinn will be a LI

She's an antagonist, never was and never will be one. The LIs are the 4 girls and maya plus one

 

[Laport Deminis]

"Nine rings to fuck around- one night stand is just enough,
Seven rings to taste a lot- every update you get some more,
Five rings to make you work- to get some sex but also love,
One ring to fight you back- and make your things a little hard,
both in the bed and in the plot- nasty ring you'll have to pound"

 

[PashafromRussia]

Chekhov's gun means that an author should not introduce superfluous elements into a story. If Jill's sister is not related with the MC, why the author is talking us about her in the first place? Why to introduce ANOTHER death character into the plot, if that character is not going to be relevant for the plot? And remember: the plot is about the MC. He´s the center of the game: Main Character. Not Jill. Jill`s story is only relevant if affects the MC.

The scene with her sister Lana was necessary for Jill to remember her childhood when they met secretly on the balcony. And when the main character climbs up to her like her sister, she wakes up feelings and she masturbates on him( maybe she was in love with her sister?). There is no hidden meaning here. This is a simple artistic move.

 

[`Ray`]

But, why does the author spend so much time and effort introducing Jill's sister? If it's just something to give Jill´s character some psychological depth, a couple of lines of dialogue would have done the job just fine. Something like: MC "You know, Jill, my mom died when I was born" Jill: "Oh, I´m sorry. I know what is to lose a relative. My sister died too when I was a kid" MC: "Oh, I´m sorry. I see that you understand me..." Well, something like that. If Jill´s sister is not going to have a bigger role in the plot, all the scenes with her leaving home and saying good by to Jill are a waste of narrative resources.

First of all, the Game hasn't even completed yet and there are 13 more episodes to come, so how are you so sure that Lana's appearance in the story is of no value ? If MC is on Jill's path, it will affect him as well. The campaign Jill is trying to start is related to her sister.

Why did DPC show the past of Josy and Maya? So that we know that Derek fucked a girl? So that we know how Maya and Josy got in relationship? Well, DPC has gone mad, the story is about MC, showing this was wastage of time as it didn't affect MC

Why did DPC show how the DIK's started? To know the relations b/w characters at that time? To know Vinny's personality? To know how DIK's started? Well, DPC was just wasting our time, the story is about MC

And you say that Buddy or Rox's appearance was meaningful... Why? It was shit and wastage of time, it didn't affect MC so it was useless. Because the story is....

So knowing about Quinn's past gives her explanation of knowing Junkies, but knowing about Jill's past doesn't explain anything? The moment this Jonathan guy is Introduced, I wonder what will you say?

Edit:---------------------------------------------------------

Quinn will be a LI, and her father story is important

And so Quinn's backstory is Important ! which is not at all affecting MC...And Lynnette's backstory is not Important, Which can actually affect MC...

And Since Quinn will be a LI...So Jill is a Side character? Got it!

The writer gives Chad some character development, just because the philosophy of this game is to provide secondary characters with more context and development that most of the erotic games around. And that's a great thing.

So Chad's character development is great ?! But it is not affecting the MC....So once again, DPC wasted our time !

I think that first you should yourself make up your mind, whether the story is only about the MC and other things are useless...OR.... Other things have meaning as well, given that you say that Quinn and Chad things are not useless

 

[AchedCroissant]

Quinn will be a LI

Imagine that there are people who have 2 years waiting for that to happen

 

[Cabin Fever]

Chekhov's gun means that an author should not introduce superfluous elements into a story. If Jill's sister is not related with the MC, why the author is talking us about her in the first place? Why to introduce ANOTHER death character into the plot, if that character is not going to be relevant for the plot? And remember: the plot is about the MC. He´s the center of the game: Main Character. Not Jill. Jill`s story is only relevant if affects the MC.

Why? Because a good story will properly build up the backstories of more than just the very main character.

Maybe because Jill's sister's backstory affects how Jill perceives & interacts with the world which includes how Jill perceives and interacts with MC? Do you think that is more far-fetched than your idea that MC & Jill will suspect that they are relatives?

 

[Cabin Fever]

View attachment 1295768

She's an antagonist, never was and never will be one. The LIs are the 4 girls and maya plus one

Well, the ex-gf in AL was an antagonist and there were happy endings with her, so never say never. And there are enough bread crumbs in BADIK to do the same again. But I don't expect a fully developed LI path.

 

[M00nSh1ne_X]

Chekhov's gun means that an author should not introduce superfluous elements into a story. If Jill's sister is not related with the MC, why the author is talking us about her in the first place? Why to introduce ANOTHER death character into the plot, if that character is not going to be relevant for the plot? And remember: the plot is about the MC. He´s the center of the game: Main Character. Not Jill. Jill`s story is only relevant if affects the MC.

Yeah basically what Shazba says below:

Ok... You've somehow convinced yourself that Jill's sister has to be related to the mc and now everything else needs to support that.

Why does Lana need to be related to the mc? With your logic, why has any character been introduced into the game if they aren't related to the mc?

Jill is involved with the mc. Jill's sister further fleshes out Jill's character (her experience growing up, her rebellious sister, her sister's death, her strict parents, the expectations that Jill feels are forced on her). It's got fuck all to do with the mc other than the mc likes Jill.

You incorrectly linked Jill's sister with the mc's mom and now you can't let it go. Why didn't you link any other character with the mc's mom? There's no evidence of anyone being linked to the mc's mom other than the mc's dad and the mc (and the mc's parents).

James, Bella's (ex)husband: Why is the author talking to us about him if he's not related to the mc? He must be related to Lynette somehow? Why? No good reason at all. James expands Bella's character just as Lana expands Jill's character.

Lana's association with Lynette is just a crazy leap a lot of people made against all the evidence and now you seem to think it's the only reason Lana exists in the story. You're wrong.

Can you explain to me, with actual logic (and evidence if you can find it), why Lana has to be related to the mc but James does not? I mean think about it, realise they are examples of the same thing (backstories of characters the mc likes) and then realise characters' backstories don't have to tie in with the mc's family...

Btw I like the expression "got fuck all to do with..."

 

[AchedCroissant]

Well, the ex-gf in AL was an antagonist

I not even consider Quinn as an antagonist since her story does goes on rails from point A to B."The antagonist, in narratology, and in general in any historical, mythical or fictional event, is the character or group of characters, and sometimes even an institution, who intervenes in a story, and who represents the opposition to a protagonist"

 

[n0cn1l]

Well, the ex-gf in AL was an antagonist and there were happy endings with her, so never say never. And there are enough bread crumbs in BADIK to do the same again. But I don't expect a fully developed LI path.

I guess we're having a miscommunication here, I never said anything about her getting an ending I said she's not a LI. DPC previous work proves that secondary characther can get one.
I will be disappointed if characters like Lilly, Cammila and Envy don't get an ending. I really want to be the stepdad of envy's son

 

[shazba]

I really want to be the stepdad of envy's son

That's, um, scary...

 

[Skjall]

I know that. I'm talking about the very first release of BaDIK (Ep. 1), and the next release (Ep. 1 & 2), and the third release (Ep. 1, 2, & 3).

Why on earth would you want that. It's just less of the same the lower the number.
Ep. 2 is 1+2, ep 3 is 1+2+3, etc. It is a continuous story with more of the plot unraveling with every episode and not separate stories.

It's a full-length movie you split watching from Monday to Thursday. Not a tv show where every episode is about something else and only MC is the same.

 

[felicemastronzo]

That's gotta be the most convincing argument in this thread!


Ok... You've somehow convinced yourself that Jill's sister has to be related to the mc and now everything else needs to support that.

Why does Lana need to be related to the mc? With your logic, why has any character been introduced into the game if they aren't related to the mc?

Jill is involved with the mc. Jill's sister further fleshes out Jill's character (her experience growing up, her rebellious sister, her sister's death, her strict parents, the expectations that Jill feels are forced on her). It's got fuck all to do with the mc other than the mc likes Jill.

You incorrectly linked Jill's sister with the mc's mom and now you can't let it go. Why didn't you link any other character with the mc's mom? There's no evidence of anyone being linked to the mc's mom other than the mc's dad and the mc (and the mc's parents).

James, Bella's (ex)husband: Why is the author talking to us about him if he's not related to the mc? He must be related to Lynette somehow? Why? No good reason at all. James expands Bella's character just as Lana expands Jill's character.

Lana's association with Lynette is just a crazy leap a lot of people made against all the evidence and now you seem to think it's the only reason Lana exists in the story. You're wrong.

Can you explain to me, with actual logic (and evidence if you can find it), why Lana has to be related to the mc but James does not? I mean think about it, realise they are examples of the same thing (backstories of characters the mc likes) and then realise characters' backstories don't have to tie in with the mc's family...

I agree with you, but explain to me the difference between that and the fact that Melanie might be Troy's sister.

 

[shazba]

Again, why the author would provide us with so many details and information about Jill´s sister, if that is not going to be at some point relevant for the story of Jill and the MC? Do you think that the author is just going to forget about Jill´s sister at some point? Jill has a death sister, and that's all? That would be really bad writing.

I think Jill's sister has already served a purpose:

• Jill and the mc bond over the fact that both have lost a family member.
• Jill has lived a very sheltered life due to having strict parents that became even more strict when their older child rebelled and tragically died.
• Jill is inspired to campaign for something that seems related to her sister's trial (or death).

I don't think we've heard the last of Lana, but I don't think there will be any huge revelation (except perhaps just how she died).

I can see Jill starting to break Royce protocol due to the MC's influence and her family may start to intervene (I can imagine Tybalt playing that card when he realises he's losing Jill), and the story of Lana may serve as something to soften their control.

On one hand you complain that the story has unlikely coincidences, but on the other you don't believe aspects should be introduced into the story unless they have some profound meaning to the mc.

One thing I like about BaDIK that so many other games do not do, is the mc isn't the centre of the universe. He's peripheral to a lot of what is going on. Characters are being affected by things outside his sphere.

I imagine, in order for the game to be satisfying, the mc will be drawn into the more significant aspects (like Quinn's drug business and perhaps something that Burke is driving behind the scenes), but there's going to be other things that have been raised that may never be resolved. The mc may not manage to make Riona cum during sex. He may never even meet Josy's step-mom, Monica.

Going way back to the origin of this particular debate. I don't necessarily think that Jill's sister will be of no consequence to the story at all, my main point was that I don't see why everyone keeps expecting her to have something to do with Lynette.

I agree with you, but explain to me the difference between that and the fact that Melanie might be Troy's sister.

The Melanie/Troy theory is based on some (albeit vague) evidence:

• She's aware of Chad's relationship even before Chad has broken up with Sage.
• It's clear Melanie has an invested interest in Chad breaking up with Sage (Mel's discussion with Sarah when Sage and the mc are kissing on the lawn).
• The way Melanie reacts during the actual breakup fight, she's very upset (for Sage) but it's obvious, (from the previous discussions with Sarah) that ultimately it's what she wants.

So why would she behave like this? There's heaps of possibilities, and being related to Chad or Troy is one of them. I pick Troy 'cause she looks more like a Troy sister than a Chad sister, but that's pretty arbitrary. Sure, she could have been a childhood friend, or an ex-girlfriend, but if Chad has managed to hide his homosexuality from Sage for the years they have been together, it's unlikely that too many people would know about it, family could be one exception (i.e. family of the side bitch).

Compare all that to: Jill has a dead sister called Lana, she must be related to the mc's dead mom called Lynette because... they're both rich... dead... bitches... There's fuck all reasoning there. That's the difference between the Lana/Lynette theory and the Troy/Melanie theory.

Still doesn't mean either of them are right or wrong, but one is founded in some form of reasoning, the other is just random.

 

[PashafromRussia]

So Jill remembers her dead sister, and gets horny... Dude, you have a really kinky mind

Almost. She was probably in love with her sister. And when the main character, like his sister, climbed up to her, she remembered her sister and got excited.

 

[felicemastronzo]

The Melanie/Troy theory is based on some (albeit vague) evidence:

• She's aware of Chad's relationship even before Chad has broken up with Sage.
• It's clear Melanie has an invested interest in Chad breaking up with Sage (Mel's discussion with Sarah when Sage and the mc are kissing on the lawn).
• The way Melanie reacts during the actual breakup fight, she's very upset (for Sage) but it's obvious, (from the previous discussions with Sarah) that ultimately it's what she wants.

So why would she behave like this? There's heaps of possibilities, and being related to Chad or Troy is one of them. I pick Troy 'cause she looks more like a Troy sister than a Chad sister, but that's pretty arbitrary. Sure, she could have been a childhood friend, or an ex-girlfriend, but if Chad has managed to hide his homosexuality from Sage for the years they have been together, it's unlikely that too many people would know about it, family could be one exception (i.e. family of the side bitch).

Compare all that to: Jill has a dead sister called Lana, she must be related to the mc's dead mom called Lynette because... they're both rich... dead... bitches... There's fuck all reasoning there. That's the difference between the Lana/Lynette theory and the Troy/Melanie theory.

Still doesn't mean either of them are right or wrong, but one is founded in some form of reasoning, the other is just random.

but she could be Troy's sister, because after all, Chad is the link between her and Troy.

if we exclude having seen Lana (but it is known that real evidence does not beat reasoning), the clues that she was MC's mother were much stronger, at least narratively.

About the relationships, it's not that there's a lot of reasoning to do, if they are relatives they are relatives, there doesn't have to be a rational reason.

What rational reason is there for Tommy and Josy to be half brothers? They are, and that's enough.

 

[Jimayo]

Why on earth would you want that. It's just less of the same the lower the number.
Ep. 2 is 1+2, ep 3 is 1+2+3, etc. It is a continuous story with more of the plot unraveling with every episode and not separate stories.

It's a full-length movie you split watching from Monday to Thursday. Not a tv show where every episode is about something else and only MC is the same.

Have you never watched Daredevil? Or The Punisher? Breaking Bad? The Walking Dead? The Umbrella Academy? The Boys?

There are plenty of T.V. shows with a continuous plot.