BenHatira

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I did read it, and very much enjoyed it, right up until the end of chapter six.
Would love to see where, prior to the bar scene, especially in "the beginning" that you mentioned, Emma says she has feelings beyond friendship for the male MC. She quite literally says exactly the opposite on a regular basis. So much so that it kind of became a running joke, and the sister and Claire's favorite thing to tease her about. It's even evident that Emma gets annoyed with them because of it, due to having no romantic feelings toward the male MC at all.

The whole story, up to chapter seven, was about a trans girl and her best friend going off to uni, and starting a new chapter in their lives as the Best Friends they had always been. There was absolutely nothing about any romantic feelings between them, and even after they had been there for months there was still nothing along those lines.
Even the dev stated early on in this thread that:
The dev reaffirms this in other posts, and goes on to say that they are trying to show the trans perspective, to make something that shows their struggles, for people who are often misunderstood and victims of prejudice. Yet has decided to make Emma into a stereotype with these latest updates: She's a woman, so she must like a guy. That's where the problem lies.

The story isn't tagged as a romance, nor is it written as one. It's more of a slice of life about two close friends, and their time at uni. Sharing their experiences, discovering what life has to offer, as supportive friends to one another. For that matter, up until the start of chapter seven, every interaction between the two protagonists, that isn't directly talking about Emma's transition, could have been any gender or sexuality, and it would have changed very little. Just two long-standing friends, with no romance between them, whatsoever. The teasing they got from friends and family could have just as easily been for any two close friends who had known each other since they were kids.
There was nothing between them beyond friendship, and it would have been great if that continued through the story. Instead we get a sharp turn away from that story, and out of nowhere a drunken hug negates Emma's sexuality; developing an instant sexual attraction to the male MC, where there previously was none, as stated several times by her, and confirmed by the devs own comments.
For some reason, it turns into something out of a bad fantasy; where someone thinks they can turn someone straight, despite every indication to the contrary.

I'm not pushing an agenda, I'm pointing out a trope that derailed the story; one that does more harm than good. It's that simple. As for what it's meant to be, I had thought based upon the first two thirds of the story, and with the author's/dev's earlier comments, it was going to be a story where we would see empathetic representation, rather than one where Emma becomes a punchline.
I'am so sorry for being that guy, but all you wrote is pretty much a confirmation that you are like to complain and won't rest until you are in the right ! :rolleyes:

I called you out for the base points regarding a "PORN" based VN !

What is even going on right now ? !

The dev decides what will happen in the future, sadly this is real life and you can't influence someone to create the reality you want to see ?! Ffs
 

Dr. Mick

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I don't think it's that bad, first of all bi people exist and Emma is still very much attracted to women we see her hooking up with Kim plenty of times.

Second, sexual orientation isn't immutable it can change over time, and this is known since the fifties.

Third, Emma is a trans woman, she's undergoing Hormone Replacement Therapy and a documented side effect is a change in sexual orientation with HRT. Hormones affect everything in our body, including what we are attracted to.
Your third statement is patently false.
HRT can bring about changes in libido, arousal, orgasm, and interests in sexual activity, but it does not change someone's sexual orientation.
Sexual orientation begins development as early a fetally, is formed during critical development periods, up into adolescence, and is not influenced by adult levels of hormones.

While HRT might make someone more confident in expressing their sexuality, as they transition into their true self, it does not change their sexual orientation.
 

Dr. Mick

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I'am so sorry for being that guy
No you aren't.
I called you out for the base points regarding a "PORN" based VN !
The dev stated, several times, that the story is the main focus of their VN. While there are sex scenes, they are not primary over the story.
It's a story-first adult visual novel that has some sexual content in it. Not a porn based VN.
What is even going on right now ? !
The dev decides what will happen in the future, sadly this is real life and you can't influence someone to create the reality you want to see ?! Ffs
What's going on is that I'm attempting to do what you asked here:
Well in that case correct me please !
And i'am honestly okey with being teached something new every day . (y)
You asked to be corrected and taught, so that's what I'm doing.
For some reason you're taking offense to it, rather than listening and trying to understand what you're being told.

Yes, it's the dev's story, they decide what will happen in the future with it, along with obviously what's already been done. I'm not trying to make them change it; if they want to they will, and if they don't they won't.
Simple as that. All I'm doing is pointing out the jarring, inconsistent, and off-putting change that was made doesn't make sense in the context of the rest of the story and characters lives that we've seen.
 

Dr. Mick

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Sounds like something Fox News would say ...

Such a shortsighted way to see the world !
It's scientific fact, from research studies that have been conducted for years, some of which I was part of and helped develop.
Not sure how you would classify empirical data, collected from thousands of participants, over the course of decades, as "shortsighted". I'd say it was anything but.
Pretty much the opposite of what Faux News would ever report.
 

BenHatira

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No you aren't.

The dev stated, several times, that the story is the main focus of their VN. While there are sex scenes, they are not primary over the story.
It's a story-first adult visual novel that has some sexual content in it. Not a porn based VN.

What's going on is that I'm attempting to do what you asked here:

You asked to be corrected and taught, so that's what I'm doing.
For some reason you're taking offense to it, rather than listening and trying to understand what you're being told.

Yes, it's the dev's story, they decide what will happen in the future with it, along with obviously what's already been done. I'm not trying to make them change it; if they want to they will, and if they don't they won't.
Simple as that. All I'm doing is pointing out the jarring, inconsistent, and off-putting change that was made doesn't make sense in the context of the rest of the story and characters lives that we've seen.
Well, where is the "correction" though ?

Okey ignore that, but i'am still not sure what exactly changes the fact that a dev already made the story clear from the beggining even though it upsets me/you ?

What do you except that happens next ?

After the MC confessed her feelings towards him (DANGER MALE counterpart) !
 

Antani101

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Your third statement is patently false.
HRT can bring about changes in libido, arousal, orgasm, and interests in sexual activity, but it does not change someone's sexual orientation.
You have no idea what you're talking about, and a simple conversation with most trans people would contradict you.

But hey, if you want to be ignorant it's not going to change over a porn forum, have at it.
 

Dark Silence

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All this bickering back and forth isn't helping anything. I personally think the dev should just add choices to the game. Let the player decide which path they want to go down and whether or not they want the relationship to bloom between MC and FMC.

I'm also not a fan of being forced to like one girl or some other girl. I play the male MC and while I do like Emma and think she's the best girl in the game, I know how she's always presented herself and whether or not she likes the male MC as a best friend or more than that, should be determined BY the player.

But either way, it's Faenon's game and should write it whatever way they want and arguing about it isn't helping anything.
 

JEER0X

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The problem isn't necessarily that she suddenly went to straight, i think it's how it is handled in the story, she was PUSHED the entire game to that, Throughout the game she was trying to find a girl for herself and was either cock blocked by the male MC or didn't vibe or in the case of Lucy was screwed and dropped she had feelings for him yes, but they was friendly and they joked about liking each other and perv stuff but that was banter.

If the male MC didn't go to that Uni.....would of been soooo different, maybe harder for her in the beginning but might of got someone without all the Interference

I don't have a problem with her liking guys, Trans or even dudes just the way it came to be was wrong
 

Dark Silence

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The problem isn't necessarily that she suddenly went to straight, i think it's how it is handled in the story, she was PUSHED the entire game to that, Throughout the game she was trying to find a girl for herself and was either cock blocked by the male MC or didn't vibe or in the case of Lucy was screwed and dropped she had feelings for him yes, but they was friendly and they joked about liking each other and perv stuff but that was banter.

I don't have a problem with her liking guys, Trans or even dudes just the way it came to be was wrong
And the male MC is also being pushed. I'm pretty sure both storylines are exactly the same. I can't be for sure, but the way people are talking, it is.
 
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JEER0X

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And the male MC is also being pushed. I'm pretty sure both storylines are exactly the same. I can't be for sure, but the way people are talking, it is.
i'll be honest i got to the lia scene and stopped playing his side, i'll get back to it and find out. Doesn't change anything either way the Pushing is what sucks about this story IMO, isn't that like forced gender identity or some shit? Don't know all the mumbo jumbo sure there is a name for this
 
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Dark Silence

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i'll be honest i got to the lia scene and stopped playing his side, i'll get back to it and find out. Doesn't change anything either way the Pushing is what sucks about this story IMO, isn't that like forced gender identity or some shit? Don't know all the mumbo jumbo sure there is a name for this
I think the male MC is a huge perv. So, any booty is good booty. I mean, I'm old and I still believe that all booty is good booty. But, he was berating himself so many times about checking Emma out at the start and now, with certain people telling him that his heart is with Emma, he's basically started believing it.
 

JEER0X

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I think the male MC is a huge perv. So, any booty is good booty. I mean, I'm old and I still believe that all booty is good booty. But, he was berating himself so many times about checking Emma out at the start and now, with certain people telling him that his heart is with Emma, he's basically started believing it.
Even if he liked her like that she didn't.. till brainwashed or if there was something there it could of developed naturally instead of constant barrages from friends and family.

To me it's like this, say your gay and come out to your family and they are totally against it and constantly beat into your mind your not gay in some cases IRL it ends really poorly for that poor guy either self harm or is brainwashed to being what society wants for him.
 

Dr. Mick

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Even if he liked her like that she didn't.. till brainwashed or if there was something there it could of developed naturally instead of constant barrages from friends and family.

To me it's like this, say your gay and come out to your family and they are totally against it and constantly beat into your mind your not gay in some cases IRL it ends really poorly for that poor guy either self harm or is brainwashed to being what society wants for him.
Thank you. I'm glad someone gets it. :)
 
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Antani101

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The problem isn't necessarily that she suddenly went to straight
Which she didn't, by the way, she still has sex with other girls in the latest update.

She went from a 6 to a 5 on the Kinsey scale, that's nothing out of the ordinary.
 
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Dr. Mick

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You have no idea what you're talking about, and a simple conversation with most trans people would contradict you.
But hey, if you want to be ignorant it's not going to change over a porn forum, have at it.
I've had conversations with dozens of people who are transitioning, both MTF and FTM. On top of that, I've read transcripts from hundreds of individuals who are trans while conducting studies on sexuality and gender.
The most recent study that would be relevant was only eight months ago. It was a comprehensive analysis of the biology and psychological effects of gender identity, puberty blockers, HRT, and lifestyle changes associated with transitioning, including a look at the intricacies of intersex, and the ethics, medical, physiological, and social implications of treatments. It is quite literally what I do for a living, so I know exactly what I'm talking about.

What forum the information is shared upon doesn't matter. What matters is dispelling disinformation and misinformation wherever it is found, so that people can learn and understand, rather than believing something that is false, and hopefully preventing someone from being willfully ignorant.

Sexual orientation is developed early in life, commonly between the ages of 9-13. Attraction can change over periods of time, as someone gains new personal knowledge, and with an individual's societal experiences. Yet these are usually small changes, rather than overall orientation. For instance, finding certain traits or behaviors more or less desirable than they used to be.
As I said earlier, HRT and adult hormones may affect an individual's arousal, interest in sexual activities, libido, orgasms, and/or the intensity of the above, but it will not alter someone's orientation. If those feelings are already there it can intensify them, but it does not create them.
Being able to express one's true self can also make someone more comfortable talking about what may have previously been repressed desires. We saw this a few times within the studies, where an individual was okay telling us what they had not expressed to anyone else, or to only one or two trusted confidants. Because of the anonymity of the study, they didn't have to worry about being embarrassed or hiding.

In short, major life events can shift someone's perception of their own sexual orientation, but it is developed early in life, and rarely is there any significant change once someone reaches adulthood.
 
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Dr. Mick

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Which she didn't, by the way, she still has sex with other girls in the latest update.

She went from a 0 to 1 on the Kinsey scale, that's nothing out of the ordinary.
The Kinsey Scale was significant for its time, but is now outdated.

It is reliant on gender binary; doesn't account for sexual attraction, only behavior; was conducted on a limited sample set, largely consisting of prison inmates; doesn't adequately account for asexuality, bisexuality, or pansexuality; and lacks the necessary nuance for the full spectrum of sexual orientation we understand today.
Besides, even if it were relevant, it wouldn't make sense for Emma to jump from six to five, since she isn't attracted to any men, with the inexplicable anomalous exception of the male MC, abruptly.
 

Antani101

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The Kinsey Scale was significant for its time, but is now outdated.
But we are on a porn forum, this isn't academia, and it's still relevant in the sense that it's part of the public discourse.

It's good enough for the behaviour we observe in the game, which again it's nothing out of the ordinary.

But hey, if you want to nitpick instead of tackle your fundamental ignorance have at it. You still know nothing of what you're talking about.

Besides, even if it were relevant, it wouldn't make sense for Emma to jump from six to five, since she isn't attracted to any men, with the inexplicable anomalous exception of the male MC, abruptly.
It's not abruptly, she's been having boners near Michael since chapter 4 I think, and again she's undergoing HRT which can alter sexual orientation, even if you'd rather stick hands over your ears and chant "nononono can't hear you".
What matters is dispelling disinformation and misinformation wherever it is found, so that people can learn and understand, rather than believing something that is false, and hopefully preventing someone from being willfully ignorant.
Yeah, maybe you should take your own advice and stop with the bullshit.
 

erisonkel

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Well in that case correct me please !

And i'am honestly okey with being teached something new every day . (y)
You've shown how you react to being corrected. You don't seem to have anything constructive to add to the conversation.
You have no idea what you're talking about, and a simple conversation with most trans people would contradict you.

But hey, if you want to be ignorant it's not going to change over a porn forum, have at it.
YOU have no idea what you're talking about. Man, what is it with randos on porn forums being so assured they know trans people. At this point you might as well take it back to the fucking AGP days with how outdated your shit is.
 
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