Thanks. Double checked, did the wrong file name. Fixed now, and verified working.
- Thread starter Drooskati
- Start date
- Jun 14, 2020
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He is 100% right tho, that was straight up rape. Even someone like me who mostly plays harem games that was just fucked up. both party had no consent prior to the "sex" hell Mc was paralyzed physically, with no way of even verbally accepting/rejecting it. Date-rape drug comes to mind is what mc got equivalent to real life.
That option before the scene made no sense too, like what the hell is a "will saving throw"?? this whole scene could've went abit better and more light hearted than what we got.
Drooskati:
Excellent story and game (Wishlisted so far). However about the RP aspect I have a concern about that scene though, ignoring the rape angle (which is still troubling), the issue I have is that Rey's ability is way too OP., She is still learning (a self-taught ability) but she just mind controlled a mage (that's way over what she did to the stable dude, which was just planting some suggestions in his mind)
If her ability progresses (as is expected) Rey could make the rest of the party irrelevant, or at least make a few members irrelevant, redundant or mostly pointless (after all, if you can mind control the enemies....)
She should have some counter/drawback to that ability, even if you rationalize the scene by saying that what happened happened because the MC is basically willing to get her doing "the same" so that is why it was possible, it doesn't make it less troubling from a balancing point of view, because let's face it, eventually she'll become so proficient in her ability that she could do it, even if the target of the mind control opposes her.
A few ideas for drawbacks:
- Using her ability beyond a point will render her highly suggestible for some time (she can control someone, but in turn she can end up doing whatever she is told to)
- She loses part of her humanity or sanity every time she uses her ability (eventually she goes insane and/or evil and betrays the rest)
- Her body ages or gets weaker (a bit cliched, but still works)
Excellent story and game (Wishlisted so far). However about the RP aspect I have a concern about that scene though, ignoring the rape angle (which is still troubling), the issue I have is that Rey's ability is way too OP., She is still learning (a self-taught ability) but she just mind controlled a mage (that's way over what she did to the stable dude, which was just planting some suggestions in his mind)
If her ability progresses (as is expected) Rey could make the rest of the party irrelevant, or at least make a few members irrelevant, redundant or mostly pointless (after all, if you can mind control the enemies....)
She should have some counter/drawback to that ability, even if you rationalize the scene by saying that what happened happened because the MC is basically willing to get her doing "the same" so that is why it was possible, it doesn't make it less troubling from a balancing point of view, because let's face it, eventually she'll become so proficient in her ability that she could do it, even if the target of the mind control opposes her.
A few ideas for drawbacks:
- Using her ability beyond a point will render her highly suggestible for some time (she can control someone, but in turn she can end up doing whatever she is told to)
- She loses part of her humanity or sanity every time she uses her ability (eventually she goes insane and/or evil and betrays the rest)
- Her body ages or gets weaker (a bit cliched, but still works)
I want to touch on a couple of the things you said, and hopefully not spoil anything
The reason she is/was able to manipulate the MC, is actually explained directly in the scene. She actually says it to him. Inserting the thought into his mind was easy, because of the kind of person he is (Again, we're referring to the game world version of the MC, not the real world version). He tends to be a sexually forward person, always ready to get laid. She says to him, "Getting control for this was like pouring water into a river." By his own nature, the thought she was implanting was one he would have already had in his mind, whether he was aware of it or not. This makes the hypnotic suggestion SIGNIFICANTLY easier to pull off, even on a more advanced magic user such as himself.
As for being too strong, near the end of the chapter she is shown being very much so weak. If she can't use her abilities, she actually becomes a liability, which is shown in the game. Again, I can't go into much detail here, because I'd prefer not to spoil it, but those who have played through C4 should know what I'm referring to.
As for your suggestions, not half bad. While it's certainly something to keep in mind, there are certain difficulties that ALL of the characters will be facing soon, which will likely render any perceived advantage moot
Just remember, the game isn't meant to continue being RP. The game inside the game, will be more than a game. (That was weird to type...)
- Oct 15, 2018
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Extreme? Even if you want to have sex with her (and I did), paralyzing someone and fucking them is rape. Especially if you haven't even had sex with them before. Being paralyzed is terrifying, even if it's just sleep paralysis and you're alone. I felt very uncomfortable about the whole thing, especially since I had agree that raping me is OK or I miss out on the sex scene. Then I'm forced to suggest she try it out on my girlfriend next
- Oct 16, 2019
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You nearly just described almost word for word the protagonist of Disney's Star Wars trilogy lol.
Looking forward to trying this out. I'm hoping this game's Rey is an upgrade from Kathleen Kennedy's, though that shouldn't be hard considering the bar is admittedly non existent there.
- Dec 14, 2020
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A will saving throw is an essential mechanic of the pen & paper (originally) and adventure RPGs which is also a foundation of the story in Between Two Worlds. The saving throw mechanics has been around for decades now and determines how story and events progress (or not) in said games.
Personally, I've been playing RPGs for decades! and I've seen harsher situations in kids' games.
That scene may not be everyone's cup of tea but fits in the narrative, and let's not forget that it happens in the fantasy world.
Just to further elaborate on this, for those who might not know. In the kind of game that the characters are playing, they have specific stats. One of those stats is essentially "Willpower", which is based on your mental fortitude. When you make a save, you roll a 20 sided die, and add your will save stat to the result of that roll. If your "save" is lower than the "DC", or difficulty class, of the spell or ability being used, then you fail the save and are subject to the results of that spell or ability.
Even the most powerful of powerful creatures can fail to significantly less powerful opponents, if their dice rolls are too low. In addition, if the person or creature in question is particularly susceptible to the spell or ability (Example, a fire elemental would be more likely to be harmed by a spell with water elements), they take penalties to their rolls, making it even harder to succeed.
So in this situation, our game world version of the main character is a bit of an oversexed womanizer. Just a bit. So he would be more susceptible to a mental suggestion involving sexual activities. This kind of thing is typically at the discretion of the DM (In this case, Oscar).
Hope this helps.
- Aug 4, 2020
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Rape is hot deal with it nerb
- Jul 10, 2017
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That is right - it does take up so much of the plot and even of the hot scenes.
We are still in a realistic, contemporary world setting, such games are used to enhance relationships and
should drive MC and his babes into hot steamy action afterwards, at least a stronger bond,
the plot of it - run by a game master who is also a game designer in the realistic game world,
just prooves it is a scheme to fill the time and bond social ties into the game characters.
We are still in a realistic, contemporary world setting, such games are used to enhance relationships and
should drive MC and his babes into hot steamy action afterwards, at least a stronger bond,
the plot of it - run by a game master who is also a game designer in the realistic game world,
just prooves it is a scheme to fill the time and bond social ties into the game characters.
I want to touch on a couple of the things you said, and hopefully not spoil anything
The reason she is/was able to manipulate the MC, is actually explained directly in the scene. She actually says it to him. Inserting the thought into his mind was easy, because of the kind of person he is (Again, we're referring to the game world version of the MC, not the real world version). He tends to be a sexually forward person, always ready to get laid. She says to him, "Getting control for this was like pouring water into a river." By his own nature, the thought she was implanting was one he would have already had in his mind, whether he was aware of it or not. This makes the hypnotic suggestion SIGNIFICANTLY easier to pull off, even on a more advanced magic user such as himself.
As for being too strong, near the end of the chapter she is shown being very much so weak. If she can't use her abilities, she actually becomes a liability, which is shown in the game. Again, I can't go into much detail here, because I'd prefer not to spoil it, but those who have played through C4 should know what I'm referring to.
As for your suggestions, not half bad. While it's certainly something to keep in mind, there are certain difficulties that ALL of the characters will be facing soon, which will likely render any perceived advantage moot
Exactly. One of the things I'm trying to do is build MEANINGFUL relationships between the characters. They are already really good and close friends. Even with a bit of subliminal influencing, it should take a little bit of time to make the leap from platonic to lovers, at least if it's intended to mean anything. And it's all being done while the underlying story builds up, before it takes over the entire thing and prevents that previous relationship building
- Mar 19, 2021
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Please add mind control and rape to the tags, I wish I knew first, so many other people too. And I'm out. Good luck developer.
- Dec 14, 2020
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And that's the way to do it!Exactly. One of the things I'm trying to do is build MEANINGFUL relationships between the characters. They are already really good and close friends. Even with a bit of subliminal influencing, it should take a little bit of time to make the leap from platonic to lovers, at least if it's intended to mean anything. And it's all being done while the underlying story builds up, before it takes over the entire thing and prevents that previous relationship building
The last thing we need is to see a unique story and setting like this to fit into any standard pattern and become like any average AVN out there.
Character banter and interactions in the "game world" are always made by the players in the "real world". So, even though they are role playing many elements interchange between both worlds, like the building sexual tension between Emily's character and MC's character for example... In the same way, I expect to see Hannah's endeavors in the "real world" to somehow project to the "game world".
- Oct 6, 2020
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Real MC could have jumped out of character to stop it even if he couldn't in-game, but because it's all roleplaying anyway, you could hear MC's thoughts/real world speech even though he couldn't speak in-character, and his character will never not want sex, he wouldn't have wanted to stop it.
This is the core of it. The "game world" character that the MC plays fucks anything that moves. It's not rape if you want it to happen, and it's been made abundantly clear that the "game world" version of MC wants it. The only reason that the option exists to "stop" it after regaining control, is for the player to indicate that they may not be interested in Kaylee as a character.
It's not a mind control thing either, since she isn't controlling him. As she says in the game, getting him interested in sex was like "adding water to a river". Because that is a trait of his "game world" character.
I admit to walking a fine line with this, and have actually reached out to multiple other devs, and even some F95 staff to get more viewpoints from an outside POV. I'm truly trying to be honest about the content of the game. If I were to, for example, add the "Rape" tag to the game, those people who are actually looking for that content would not find what they are looking for in BTW. In addition, it would likely turn away those who understand the content for what it is meant to be.
For now, the fix I've implemented is sufficient, and will remain in place. I'm in the process of uploading the patched version to the mirrors now.
- Sep 7, 2018
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I liked this update since I'm more into the fantasy aspect of this game. I will also admit I didn't like the Rey stuff either, the patch made it a bit better but I will admit I was pissed that there wasn't a choice to get angry with her for doing it.
I really have no interest in Kaylee/Rey what so ever. So it annoyed me even more when I had an unavoidable sex scene with a character I have no interest in and find really unattractive. Add in the fact that even though you explained that the MC wants it so it isn't rape, to me it was rape.
It's your story though and you have already explained the reasons for it, even though I don't agree with them so I won't go on about it.
All I want to know is will there be an option to avoid doing anything else with her both in the board game and in the real world? there was no clear cut choice to tell her you aren't interested in her. After that scene the MC just says something about how he is not interested right now but might be later.
I really have no interest in Kaylee/Rey what so ever. So it annoyed me even more when I had an unavoidable sex scene with a character I have no interest in and find really unattractive. Add in the fact that even though you explained that the MC wants it so it isn't rape, to me it was rape.
It's your story though and you have already explained the reasons for it, even though I don't agree with them so I won't go on about it.
All I want to know is will there be an option to avoid doing anything else with her both in the board game and in the real world? there was no clear cut choice to tell her you aren't interested in her. After that scene the MC just says something about how he is not interested right now but might be later.
- Sep 20, 2018
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That's an improvement, but the 'rape' scene is still an extremely tangled ball of problems.
I think a better, though much more involved, solution would be to have the characters discuss the matter out of game (err, the Pathfinder game, not Between Two Worlds). Have Kaylee say there's something her character would do and wants to make sure the MC is okay with it first and then have a short discussion of what the players at the table are comfortable with. After all, Kaylee is a new player in a gaming group. Yes, the characters have mentioned that Oscar's games can get a bit spicy, but this is still on the extreme end of RP material. (And bear in mind that AFAICT, Kaylee only handles the MC's junk if he accepts Alorine's display of power.)
By discussing the matter in (in-game) real life, you would establish that a) this isn't a 'real' rape, b) this is something the players themselves are enjoying, and c) the MC's character's forgiveness of Reyliana is more of an in-game RP moment rather than B2W excusing the highly questionable actions of its own characters.
Just my two cents. I liked the update otherwise, but I don't have time to give a more in-depth review at the moment.
EDIT:
This is a another thorny issue I don't have time to delve into, but just because the MC's character is a promiscuous womanizer, that in no way indicates he'd enjoy being raped. The fact that Reyliana effectively removes not only his ability to consent, but his ability to resist at all, is a complete game-changer.
I really think this sort of thing needs to be handled extremely carefully if it's going to be done, which is why I favor stepping back and addressing the matter out of character. Rape roleplay is a very different thing than actual rape, and this is effectively roleplay. It just isn't conveyed well by the game (IMHO).
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