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Ren'Py Big Brother: Another Story Rebuild [v0.05.02] [Aleksey90]
- Thread starter Crazygamer43
- Start date
- Nov 22, 2020
- 208
- 358
Dude, It seems that my point is not understood, that a character is hated is not a bad thing, it is actually a very good thing for the development of a novel or game, because it makes you want to defeat him or whoever wants can join him, people may hate it and others may love it, but the important thing is that it generates a reaction and makes the novel or game have objectives for the player.
Dangers, threats, situations you hate, violence, all of that triggers emotions and it is necessary for the plot.
For example The Game Of Thrones
- Cercei
- Joffrey
- Ramsey
- Walder Frey
- Euron Greyjoy
- Gregor Clegane
- High Sparrow
- Stannis
- Alliser Thorne
- Viserys
- Baelish
- Meryn Trant
and more...
all hated and some supported and all helped to make a better story, so that at some point the reader or viewer would have the satisfaction of seeing them fall.
- Jan 7, 2018
- 4,912
- 4,004
You are talking here about well written characters - which Eric is not - in a story that is designed to have space for such characters. But most of the BIBO story has nothing to do with Eric. He was a wish from some players and forced into the story and the result was ... bad.
And I really would not go so far as to compare BIBOAS to game of thrones. You mentioned other adult oriented games with good antagonists. Have any examples for these? That would make more sense than mentioning a book or TV series.
And I really would not go so far as to compare BIBOAS to game of thrones. You mentioned other adult oriented games with good antagonists. Have any examples for these? That would make more sense than mentioning a book or TV series.
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Yes, HATED characters MIGHT help a story. I never watched Game of Thrones (I see the shock on all your faces), but I understand it was a good show (before the end). EVIL Scum Eric was NOT that kind of character. I'm NOT doing a massive wall of text this time but will just give two MAJOR PROBLEMS created by his appearance that made him not just hated but bad and NOT needed.
1) The game switched from Family Fun to Voyeur/forced to watch someone else with NO warning. The ORIGINAL description by the dev was something like 'the incest game of a lifetime' with NO mention of NTR or voyeur. There was (at the time) NO information in or out of the game that things were going to change. Had there been information whether in or out of the game about the change things might have been (slightly) less damaging.
2) There was NO struggle or competition until LONG after the Evil One's appearance. It took a massive drop in support for the dev to even begin allowing for players to have a (SMALL) chance to avoid/block some of the Eric Characters actions. Heck the BEST thing players and Mod makers could find to BLOCK most of the unwanted content was to follow a LIMITED path to a certain point (Where Eric could be removed) while NOT doing most of the content available. In the end we finally got several ways to REMOVE the character relatively quickly so we could continue. As many have said his part in the game became an annoyance NOT a struggle, and he became hated for the DAMAGE he caused the game, not his role in it.
Let me use a different example to the one you used 'Lord of the Rings'. Would the story have been as loved if, after the main characters were established and their goals shown, a new character (never mentioned before) appeared that changed EVERYTHING? Now the quest was NOT to stop the Dark Lord and save the world. Instead, the new character took the ring, and the story became how this person uses it to conquer the world and create an EVIL empire, all with BAD (or NO) character development and poorly written situations that don't make sense.
Would that be an example of a GOOD character that is hated and situations that evoke emotions in a good way for the story? Would this new version be used to show a good character being added, or instead be seen as a way to DESTROY a story? Yes, a VERY good writer MIGHT be able to create a decent story from that, but it is unlikely, and that did NOT happen here.
A hated character can be good in a story or game if properly developed and they serve a purpose in the game/story. A character who causes chaos and destroys the story/game is hated for the damage they did to something that started good and became BAD when they appeared.
I discovered the original game shortly after it started and ENDURED the situation from before the mess that Eric created until now. The BEST I can say about the EVIL Scum Eric character is that he was POORLY written, UNNECCESARY to the story, and caused a legacy of damage that persists until today.
ACK, I wanted to avoid another wall of text.. -SIGH-
Just some thoughts.
P.S. Just as a throwback for those that remember.. ALL games can be improved by adding Chocolate Chip Cookies!!
dude u are a man a real one there is afew remain in this world I dont want say more cuse of rolesThe name of the game is actually about the cameras
If someone at some point makes a Eric game, he has my blessing. I won't play it, since I don't want to play a character that reflects what his fans want from him (being abusive and brutal, also wanting to steal the house, in the original he even had a fake identity), but others might enjoy it. So ... why not.
- Mar 12, 2020
- 118
- 356
People crying about Eric all the time are just so blinded by their own phobia they don't realize it's supposed to be a GAME, not some kind of kinetic crap and should come with some sort of challenge as an obstacle to make getting the girls even more rewarding.
If you just want some drab ass game where you chat up the girls and fuck them, that's boring as fuck and you may as well rip the images and delete the game.
If you just want some drab ass game where you chat up the girls and fuck them, that's boring as fuck and you may as well rip the images and delete the game.
- May 23, 2017
- 495
- 94
Help with the Arachnaphobia quest! I just can’t get through, because there is no option to throw a spider into the shower!
i have question
Big Brother: Another Story v0.09.2.03 <= Should I play this version first? and just play rebuild version?
I couldn't have sex with anyone in the previous version, but does sex content exist now?
Big Brother: Another Story v0.09.2.03 <= Should I play this version first? and just play rebuild version?
I couldn't have sex with anyone in the previous version, but does sex content exist now?
- Jun 20, 2017
- 662
- 771
There is no sex in this version.. It is still very far away!
- Jan 7, 2018
- 4,912
- 4,004
Go for it - except if you hate spoilers for the rebuild. The new build is more dynamic, but I find the previous version absolutely worth playing. But just so you know: Also the previous build only lets you get in bed with Kira. The others never go further than a BJ.
- Nov 22, 2020
- 208
- 358
It cannot be said that Eric is a poorly written character because clearly there are people who like his character and also people who despise him, but he surely fulfills his objective of spice things up.
Examples of NSFW games with good antagonists, in addition to there being games where the protagonist is the bad guy or Villain who corrupts, there are those that challenge the protagonist.
For example:
- A Mother's Love - the teacher and FMC's husband.
- Freshwoman - The characters whose father wants revenge.
- The King of Summer - Kendo
- SAO - Inoda
- Deliverance - the demigoddess and her lackey.
- Projekt: Passion - Has a well-written Villain and the MC's ex-girlfriend.
I could go on but I think I already proved the point, that a villain or antagonist can make the player more motivated in the game with the idea of beating him or even wanting to cheer him on (people have different tastes).
NTR games will logically have more villains, but other games will also have them to provide motivation to the MC.
- Nov 22, 2020
- 208
- 358
No problem with the wall of text hahaha I read it all, thanks for taking the time to explain your point of view.Yes, HATED characters MIGHT help a story. I never watched Game of Thrones (I see the shock on all your faces), but I understand it was a good show (before the end). EVIL Scum Eric was NOT that kind of character. I'm NOT doing a massive wall of text this time but will just give two MAJOR PROBLEMS created by his appearance that made him not just hated but bad and NOT needed.
1) The game switched from Family Fun to Voyeur/forced to watch someone else with NO warning. The ORIGINAL description by the dev was something like 'the incest game of a lifetime' with NO mention of NTR or voyeur. There was (at the time) NO information in or out of the game that things were going to change. Had there been information whether in or out of the game about the change things might have been (slightly) less damaging.
2) There was NO struggle or competition until LONG after the Evil One's appearance. It took a massive drop in support for the dev to even begin allowing for players to have a (SMALL) chance to avoid/block some of the Eric Characters actions. Heck the BEST thing players and Mod makers could find to BLOCK most of the unwanted content was to follow a LIMITED path to a certain point (Where Eric could be removed) while NOT doing most of the content available. In the end we finally got several ways to REMOVE the character relatively quickly so we could continue. As many have said his part in the game became an annoyance NOT a struggle, and he became hated for the DAMAGE he caused the game, not his role in it.
Let me use a different example to the one you used 'Lord of the Rings'. Would the story have been as loved if, after the main characters were established and their goals shown, a new character (never mentioned before) appeared that changed EVERYTHING? Now the quest was NOT to stop the Dark Lord and save the world. Instead, the new character took the ring, and the story became how this person uses it to conquer the world and create an EVIL empire, all with BAD (or NO) character development and poorly written situations that don't make sense.
Would that be an example of a GOOD character that is hated and situations that evoke emotions in a good way for the story? Would this new version be used to show a good character being added, or instead be seen as a way to DESTROY a story? Yes, a VERY good writer MIGHT be able to create a decent story from that, but it is unlikely, and that did NOT happen here.
A hated character can be good in a story or game if properly developed and they serve a purpose in the game/story. A character who causes chaos and destroys the story/game is hated for the damage they did to something that started good and became BAD when they appeared.
I discovered the original game shortly after it started and ENDURED the situation from before the mess that Eric created until now. The BEST I can say about the EVIL Scum Eric character is that he was POORLY written, UNNECCESARY to the story, and caused a legacy of damage that persists until today.
ACK, I wanted to avoid another wall of text.. -SIGH-
Just some thoughts.
P.S. Just as a throwback for those that remember.. ALL games can be improved by adding Chocolate Chip Cookies!!
I understand your perspective better and I would totally agree with your points but for me a villain is not a negative thing for this particular game.
Let me explain, I completely share the example you made of the Lord of the Rings, I hate that nonsense, especially when the writer wants to get creative and surprise the reader by wanting to be original he/she ends up ruining it.
but Sauron or Saruman were great, they were the challenge and after the struggle and agony comes victory and satisfaction.
For this game I understand that it bothers many players Eric but when you get rid of him you relax and take a weight off your shoulders and your relationship with women improves with new options, in fact the MC is more mature.
As Albert said to Bruce Wayne in the Batman movie "Why do we fall sir? So that we can learn to pick ourselves up. Bruce Wayne: You still haven't given up on me?"
Challenges are necessary because overcoming them is satisfying and you can grow the relationships between the characters and what is difficult to achieve tastes better in the end.
- Jan 7, 2018
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I tend to disagree with the argumentation here, since there's people who despise any other guy than the MC in their VNs. That is not proof that all of them are well written.
But thanks for the list. Some of them I know and I would not necessarily share your opinion about them, it helps to understand what you are expecting.
In VNs I don't see any villain as challenge, since all you do is click click click which is not a challenge.
If you actually have to perform specific tasks to defeat him and can also lose, then it can be a challenge.
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Being liked and being well written are not the same thing. You can have a well written character who is intended to be disliked. Thomas Covenant the unbeliever would be the best example I can think of for that. I hated the main character in that series but I still feel he was well written.
You can also have a poorly written character who is liked by a significant number of people. I would say the most common example for this would be one dimensional but very attractive characters. People like them because they're hot and/or badass and they really have nothing else to them. They're usually a Mary Sue (whether male or female). So there's no hero's journey, no struggles, no need for friends, no weaknesses, etc. The story is a foregone conclusion. Whoever the bad guy is, the protagonist is going to defeat them effortlessly. Any character played by Scarlett Johansen I'm going to like because she's a goddess. Doesn't matter if she's poorly written.
To me a well written character has certain requirements that must be met for them to achieve that status.
- Can not be one dimensional. Must have both flaws and redeeming qualities. Barring possible exceptions for a super villain like Sauron, they can't be pure evil and they also can't be pure good.
- They should have people they care about and are willing to accept some personal risk to protect.
- Should have more than 1 goal guiding their actions, ideally competing interests that make them a more complex character
- For a protagonist, the hero's journey is absolutely required. They should experience failure on a regular basis and they should need help from their friends. Mary Sue's need not apply (whether male or female).
To me Erik pretty much fails all of that. He's pure evil. He has zero redeeming qualities. He has nobody he genuinely cares about. He's basically an overpowered, one dimensional villain.
To be fair, Max is ALSO not a well written character IMO. He's also one dimensional. His motivations are purely selfish. He doesn't really seem to genuinely care about anyone as long as he gets his dick wet. The only part of the above that fits for him is the fact that he does fail and have to struggle to get what he wants so he sort of meets the hero's journey part.
None of this has anything to do with whether they are liked or not. I don't like either Erik or Max. But Max is the protagonist so if I have to root for either Max or Erik I'm going to choose Max. I'm basically choosing between pure evil vs an annoying little jerk.
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The Eric Character was NOT a villain like Sauron or Saruman. He was an attempt to change to story and avoid what it was originally created to be. The 'struggle and agony' were a series of events that didn't need to happen and caused problems that damaged the story.
Let's try this another way. A new 'Lord of the Rings' film series gets announced, and people get excited. The start is the same until we reach Bree. The Director decides to 'Subvert our expectations' by changing the 'Strider' character. Instead of going to Rivendell immediately there is a whole new story about Sam finding this new character to be awesome and joins a campaign to conquer the North and create a kingdom before continuing the actual quest. Merry and Pippin of course talk about how GREAT it is that they are all ignoring the dangers and join in. Several trips to Brothels while leaving Frodo behind could be added for the shock value as well. Has this improved the story? No, it is NOT needed, and damages what the original story should have been. Yes, some people might enjoy the new bits, but has it really added anything of value? I would say NO.
The Original game did NOT need the EVIL Scum Eric character to create struggles to overcome. We have the issue of the Cameras and where the equipment to run them is located (why wasn't there a hidden room with a server to be found). That could have been used to create a 'struggle' with the family working to keep the house and not have it taken back by the 'mysterious' guy who gave it to them (was it the father?). The Eric character MIGHT have been a part of this, but SHOULD have had a harder time becoming so powerful and influential so quickly.
For additional issues there are Lisa and Alice. We might have needed to save one or both of them form BAD situations. Alice might be in danger of ending up working for (being enslaved by) Kate's mother. Perhaps there is a group of boys at Lisa's school that are abusing girls, and we need to work as a family to save her (and Olivia).
Heck, the EVIL Scum Eric Character could have been used (on his own) as well. Just have there be issues at work (harassment and WORSE) and the family join together to overcome this. The character could have remained as a MOSTLY unseen danger and the story would have been better (in my opinion). Yes, we would have lost some (MOST) of the Voyeur scenes, but new 'Family Fun' scenes might have replaced them.
In the end EVIL Scum Eric was and is not really needed as he appeared in the original game. In this version I am hopeful that he will be handled FAR better. Of course, we need to wait and see how things progress, but as I say I AM hopeful.
Now as a side note I wonder if others think it strange that the second camera we add in this game will be in the Bathroom? While it does give a way to see more 'NAUGHTY' things early, I would think that the Pool area is a better choice. A slower progression in (nudity) camera placement just feels like a better option to me (though I DO want to see some more 'NAUGHTY' bits).
Just some thoughts (and another wall of text). -SIGH-
P.S. This insanity has been brought to you by the Chocolate Chip Cookies for a better tomorrow Commitee.
Fully agree with this. I have no problem with a villain like Eric existing. But he starts off too powerful and has nothing redeeming about him. If he had started as a more typical boyfriend who doesn't have near mind control levels of power over Ann and there was a struggle for dominance between him and Max, that would have been much more interesting IMO.
Yeah I definitely think Kate's mother was a huge missed opportunity as someone who could have developed into a villain who could have been overcome in a much more satisfying manner for an adult game than Eric. I do think both Alice and Lisa are better characters for an adult game than Ann is since they both have their own motivations for advancing naughty parts of the story line without Max having to corrupt them into it. I really wish the story revolved a lot less on blackmail.
Well from Max's perspective I think the bathroom makes perfect sense. It's the one place in the house where ALL of the females in the house are guaranteed to be completely naked on a regular basis. Naked trumps bikinis every time...
- Sep 8, 2018
- 97
- 981
I know... you know... they know
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