The classic porn game drm maneuver, it never goes the way they want it to and they always end up losing more customers then they gain with it. When will they learn?
Unreal Engine Bioasshard Arena [v1.0.241 R3] [VersusX]
Case in point they lost me after one day. After finding out my info could be stolen if the game got hacked (everyone is trying already) I was like "NOPE". DRM is good... IF it does not screw over everyone involved if it fails. I will wait for the public thank you.
- Oct 12, 2018
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As far as I know, people are working on cracking it right now just for the express reason to make it playable offline, which is my only real concern with it honestly.
As far as I understand it from reading elsewhere, the only data people could actually access if they did manage to crack the DRM credentials wise is peoples email addresses, though, obviously I'd have no real idea on the logistics of how things work, I'm not a programmer nor have I actually tried the demo yet. As much as it is pretty much DRM in a sense, it doesn't seem that was necessarily the purpose of the login system as even explained on the patreon itself that its more or less just used to unlock special rewards for those at higher tiers. Granted, I don't think this is probably the best way to go about offering that, but its definitely one way of doing so.
The fact that they basically admit that this won't really deter pirates and already know it won't goes to show that they understand well enough that this won't effect much in the end on that front, but still, the implementation of the Login system with you losing access to rewards as you stop paying is pretty unfortunate overall. I'll still likely sub just since I am hopeful and truly a fan of whats being made here, but I really hope that this situation serves as a reason for them to implement a different way to unlock special patron rewards since in the end its gonna get pirated regardless.
Basically just my two cents really, as the only reason I haven't subbed yet is just paying $30 for about 4 days of access would have been very sketch, but at that point it would have just been more so about supporting the creators. (Which if I DID have a spare $60 to spend, I might have done but even then, just the whole online only parts of this early version are going to wind up being pretty painful in the long run since I sometimes find myself without internet fairly frequently due to the area I live in.) That all being said, I empathize with and understand lots of the frustrations people have on here, I was super happy to hear and update and support honestly until I read the post detailing the login system. So much done right, but its easy for one small thing like this to hurt the public reception the creators will have for awhile.
As far as I understand it from reading elsewhere, the only data people could actually access if they did manage to crack the DRM credentials wise is peoples email addresses, though, obviously I'd have no real idea on the logistics of how things work, I'm not a programmer nor have I actually tried the demo yet. As much as it is pretty much DRM in a sense, it doesn't seem that was necessarily the purpose of the login system as even explained on the patreon itself that its more or less just used to unlock special rewards for those at higher tiers. Granted, I don't think this is probably the best way to go about offering that, but its definitely one way of doing so.
The fact that they basically admit that this won't really deter pirates and already know it won't goes to show that they understand well enough that this won't effect much in the end on that front, but still, the implementation of the Login system with you losing access to rewards as you stop paying is pretty unfortunate overall. I'll still likely sub just since I am hopeful and truly a fan of whats being made here, but I really hope that this situation serves as a reason for them to implement a different way to unlock special patron rewards since in the end its gonna get pirated regardless.
Basically just my two cents really, as the only reason I haven't subbed yet is just paying $30 for about 4 days of access would have been very sketch, but at that point it would have just been more so about supporting the creators. (Which if I DID have a spare $60 to spend, I might have done but even then, just the whole online only parts of this early version are going to wind up being pretty painful in the long run since I sometimes find myself without internet fairly frequently due to the area I live in.) That all being said, I empathize with and understand lots of the frustrations people have on here, I was super happy to hear and update and support honestly until I read the post detailing the login system. So much done right, but its easy for one small thing like this to hurt the public reception the creators will have for awhile.
Creator responded to the drama on linemarvel, ill post the message here for you folk that didn't see it.
"Ok guys, I'll try to clarify this for one last time. I won't try any further because I clearly stated this stuff I'm about to point once again. So it's up to you to understand it or not.
First thing first, I/we (yeah we're two devs, it's not only me) don't care about piracy, it's something we CAN'T fight against. I mean who could even say he/she didn't pirate anything on his/her life because I can't say that, so why would I bother.
Not even triple-A games couldn't fight it, do you think a small team of two devs have the saint grail solution to that? Of course not.
I once got mad because the previous version got leaked, but not because it was pirated, but because it was just a few days away for the public release and that forced us to just get it released early, just because why should the people waiting the public version wait for that date when the pirates have it already? But nothing else. That's all.
This is system which is not thought as a DRM even if it could be seem like that, it's just how we implemented the unlockables system. Nothing else/more.
I did not waste that time trying to protect the game from anything.
And as you mentioned, you got Punished Mai in there, did you saw us complaining? We know that's it's useless, that's why we don't care.
I don want/plan to burn down my own game ffs, that would be crazy. But if ppl is so harsh to the point of breaking to a server where (I'll repeat it again) no sensitive data but the mail can be accessed just to play a game a few weeks earlier, then I can put what I think it's more important (the privacy of our patrons) on top of a development and take drastic measures.
"not clearly disclosing the system"??? The login system was talked about the day after the trailer was released and in a public post. So don't act like this was something unexpected until you run the game or something like that. A login system, has its risks, that's obvious (even if this one is pretty secure). We even said that this post was a "must read"
And maybe we lack on other stuff, but in honesty? ffs...
Oh and by the way, before this version's release we were getting as much as 600$, sometimes a bit more (never reachin 700) and sometimes less. Before Bioasshard we have made other games with not a single restricting system and you know what? we got even less, around 200$. So I think that's not the problem.
Also comparing us with a game that gets more than 60k is a bit unfair in any matter lol.
And well, that's all I had to say in the matter. I hope this is clear enough. So if you keep ignoring what I just said and treating it like a DRM or an anti-pirate system, I'll just ignore it, sorry.
Also yeah, don't worry, I don't take this as personal.
"
"Ok guys, I'll try to clarify this for one last time. I won't try any further because I clearly stated this stuff I'm about to point once again. So it's up to you to understand it or not.
First thing first, I/we (yeah we're two devs, it's not only me) don't care about piracy, it's something we CAN'T fight against. I mean who could even say he/she didn't pirate anything on his/her life because I can't say that, so why would I bother.
Not even triple-A games couldn't fight it, do you think a small team of two devs have the saint grail solution to that? Of course not.
I once got mad because the previous version got leaked, but not because it was pirated, but because it was just a few days away for the public release and that forced us to just get it released early, just because why should the people waiting the public version wait for that date when the pirates have it already? But nothing else. That's all.
This is system which is not thought as a DRM even if it could be seem like that, it's just how we implemented the unlockables system. Nothing else/more.
I did not waste that time trying to protect the game from anything.
And as you mentioned, you got Punished Mai in there, did you saw us complaining? We know that's it's useless, that's why we don't care.
I don want/plan to burn down my own game ffs, that would be crazy. But if ppl is so harsh to the point of breaking to a server where (I'll repeat it again) no sensitive data but the mail can be accessed just to play a game a few weeks earlier, then I can put what I think it's more important (the privacy of our patrons) on top of a development and take drastic measures.
"not clearly disclosing the system"??? The login system was talked about the day after the trailer was released and in a public post. So don't act like this was something unexpected until you run the game or something like that. A login system, has its risks, that's obvious (even if this one is pretty secure). We even said that this post was a "must read"
And maybe we lack on other stuff, but in honesty? ffs...
Oh and by the way, before this version's release we were getting as much as 600$, sometimes a bit more (never reachin 700) and sometimes less. Before Bioasshard we have made other games with not a single restricting system and you know what? we got even less, around 200$. So I think that's not the problem.
Also comparing us with a game that gets more than 60k is a bit unfair in any matter lol.
And well, that's all I had to say in the matter. I hope this is clear enough. So if you keep ignoring what I just said and treating it like a DRM or an anti-pirate system, I'll just ignore it, sorry.
Also yeah, don't worry, I don't take this as personal.
"Creator responded to the drama on linemarvel, ill post the message here for you folk that didn't see it.
"Ok guys, I'll try to clarify this for one last time. I won't try any further because I clearly stated this stuff I'm about to point once again. So it's up to you to understand it or not.
First thing first, I/we (yeah we're two devs, it's not only me) don't care about piracy, it's something we CAN'T fight against. I mean who could even say he/she didn't pirate anything on his/her life because I can't say that, so why would I bother.
Not even triple-A games couldn't fight it, do you think a small team of two devs have the saint grail solution to that? Of course not.
I once got mad because the previous version got leaked, but not because it was pirated, but because it was just a few days away for the public release and that forced us to just get it released early, just because why should the people waiting the public version wait for that date when the pirates have it already? But nothing else. That's all.
This is system which is not thought as a DRM even if it could be seem like that, it's just how we implemented the unlockables system. Nothing else/more.
I did not waste that time trying to protect the game from anything.
And as you mentioned, you got Punished Mai in there, did you saw us complaining? We know that's it's useless, that's why we don't care.
I don want/plan to burn down my own game ffs, that would be crazy. But if ppl is so harsh to the point of breaking to a server where (I'll repeat it again) no sensitive data but the mail can be accessed just to play a game a few weeks earlier, then I can put what I think it's more important (the privacy of our patrons) on top of a development and take drastic measures.
"not clearly disclosing the system"??? The login system was talked about the day after the trailer was released and in a public post. So don't act like this was something unexpected until you run the game or something like that. A login system, has its risks, that's obvious (even if this one is pretty secure). We even said that this post was a "must read"
And maybe we lack on other stuff, but in honesty? ffs...
Oh and by the way, before this version's release we were getting as much as 600$, sometimes a bit more (never reachin 700) and sometimes less. Before Bioasshard we have made other games with not a single restricting system and you know what? we got even less, around 200$. So I think that's not the problem.
Also comparing us with a game that gets more than 60k is a bit unfair in any matter lol.
And well, that's all I had to say in the matter. I hope this is clear enough. So if you keep ignoring what I just said and treating it like a DRM or an anti-pirate system, I'll just ignore it, sorry.
Also yeah, don't worry, I don't take this as personal.
- Oct 12, 2018
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Its good to note that this pretty much got birthed through a few people saying the same thing over and over really. Though, despite them saying its not DRM, I'm pretty sure it still classifies as it in a sense, or at least serves a similar function. Honestly if anything I think these guys could use someone to handle their PR a bit. At least there's hope that this system won't exist in the final release, or at the very least will be a much improved system down the line with them mentioning that it wasn't exactly how they wanted it to be with forcing people to continue paying to maintain said benefits which, at least from an outside perspective without any clarification, would look like a way to just make some quick/cheap cash more than anything.
PR is everything
This nice looking game could play in the same leauge like "breeder of the Neph." or even near "Wild life".
But they forgot:
Patron is a plattform to support small people with great ideas.
Not about to make paid subscriptions for unfinished Games.
This nice looking game could play in the same leauge like "breeder of the Neph." or even near "Wild life".
But they forgot:
Patron is a plattform to support small people with great ideas.
Not about to make paid subscriptions for unfinished Games.
- Feb 11, 2019
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Just to clarify, no I haven't tried to hack the server, but have looked through the .exe and watched the traffic out (and received back), and it sends the login name and password, at which point the server accepts or declines. If accepted, it then connects a second time to query the name of the user, but no idea why. It then progresses into the game. I lack the knowledge to jump over the login junk thou so someone else will need to do that... They also encrypted the .PAK files this time too.
- Jan 20, 2018
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"We don't care about piracy"
> Implements DRM on an alpha version of the game
> Implements DRM on an alpha version of the game
- Oct 12, 2018
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But in reality, they really aren't. You can wait for the public release once it comes, and its no doubt why there is a "Skip Login" option on the actual client itself having downloaded from the link in this thread. Obviously, its not active quite yet but I imagine its something they'll allow once the time comes, unless they expect everyone to sign in via a patreon account which admittedly would be pretty yikes.
Obviously you won't get access to all the features/content if you don't pay anything, but either way in the end you'll still get access to the alpha down the line.
Unrelated but, at this point even with wanting to reserve special rewards/content for patrons, I imagine there had to be an easier way of doing so then this, and while managing to avoid the whole "online only" issues that DRM related systems cause, especially if they by their own words expected pirates to do exactly that regardless. Sticky situation all around regardless, and I genuinely don't think the entire intent was to serve as a DRM, but in the end that's pretty much what they created.
Honestly though, as long as the only thing that is exposed IS the email addresses as they've mentioned then I don't see a huge issue with it, I can see why it'd still bug others though. If they could have really found any other way to do it without basically typing in all of your Patreon info to the server I'd feel a lot better overall, and if I do still support officially here in a few days I'll likely remove my card from the account just to be on the safe side of things.
As little as it would obviously deter pirates, I don't see why they couldn't have just added a password system, or even just input code and released different versions that would have certain features unlocked and locked for the various patreon levels, or maybe even have them in the form of addons behind certain patreon exclusive posts. Like they said, pirates are going to get at it anyways, this way while it might deter them longer and is possibly in some fashion simpler for them to ensure only patreons get the specific unlock rewards, it definitely generates a feeling of instability and uncertainty when it comes to the content itself and whether it could pose a potential security threat that some unscrupulous individuals could take advantage of.
Suppose time is the only way to tell, and hopefully they either improve this login system in the future, perhaps by simply having you register accounts elsewhere without the potential for identity/card theft, or just do away with it altogether so it becomes a nonissue. I really do think the work I've seen so far is worthy of support, especially since for someone like me, a huge fan of RE4/5, this is almost a match made in heaven for me in terms of gameplay and lewd content, so really, I wish I didn't feel this conflicted on supporting out of a security stand point. Probably just me worrying and looking into things too much considering whats been stated, but really can't shake the inkling that the potential for some real bad to be done is there.
And now I somehow realize this post has gone on for far longer then I expected, this is what I get for staying up till 7AM though I suppose, especially when I'm already prone to rambling.
- Feb 11, 2019
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Both the email address and password is handled by their server script (FoxLogin.php) in plain text as I mentioned above. Of course the passwords are just as exposed as the email addresses if they get hacked, its all the same database front end...
I like the demo, the animations and so on, but the half assed DRM (they can call it what they want) is seriously bad.
I like the demo, the animations and so on, but the half assed DRM (they can call it what they want) is seriously bad.
- Oct 12, 2018
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Curious, anyone here who has access to the demo able to play it? Seems the new month flipping on patreon from July to August might have screwed something, at least as far as I can tell from comments and not being able to get in myself. Log in system definitely being a pain as of current.
It screwed up for A LOT of people. If the payment has not been processed then no game, yet another reason the login system sucks. So until the payments process no game so you paid for well... nothing. Many patrons are mad and the vote to get rid of the login system is showing that many people hate the current system.
- Oct 12, 2018
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So, good news for everyone, the Log In System is being ditched due to a patron vote over the last couple days, that and due to the server shutting down they'll be releasing a new version soon for fox and hound patrons first, with apparently shorter wait times for the rest till public release. As for patron rewards like the exclusive costume, they seem to be planning to simply release different versions download wise for everyone based on what level you've pledged at. So, good news there.
Now, they have mentioned a new potential system they will be using in the future for their various titles dubbed the CP system as of right now, and while it'll be used to try and reward longtime patrons and those who have been subbed for a certain amount of time, but it won't require any sort of online connection, no patron information, and apparently it'll allow patrons to do whatever they wish with their rewards, whatever that means.
All in all a good turn out considering, just sucks that I'll have to wait that extra bit longer to play, but considering what it ultimately means in getting the login system removed and me not having to worry about potential security threats, I can definitely say that this makes me happy, even if I still am super eager to get a chance to play.
Now, they have mentioned a new potential system they will be using in the future for their various titles dubbed the CP system as of right now, and while it'll be used to try and reward longtime patrons and those who have been subbed for a certain amount of time, but it won't require any sort of online connection, no patron information, and apparently it'll allow patrons to do whatever they wish with their rewards, whatever that means.
All in all a good turn out considering, just sucks that I'll have to wait that extra bit longer to play, but considering what it ultimately means in getting the login system removed and me not having to worry about potential security threats, I can definitely say that this makes me happy, even if I still am super eager to get a chance to play.
- Jan 20, 2018
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hmm well,
he lost a lot Patreons and his login system is at the moment is down.
looks like he take his emergency plan
he lost a lot Patreons and his login system is at the moment is down.
looks like he take his emergency plan
- Jan 20, 2018
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Actually according to
You must be registered to see the links
, he gained quite a bit of patronsofc
but it goes since the relese a bit down.
~1710$ on release day was the highes i saw and today ~1520$ the lows
(i checked it a few times)
i bet it get more stable after the new login news
but it goes since the relese a bit down.
~1710$ on release day was the highes i saw and today ~1520$ the lows
(i checked it a few times)
i bet it get more stable after the new login news