Unreal Engine Breeders of the Nephelym [v0.761.13 Public] [DerelictHelmsman]

[b00marrows]

Maybe I worded myself wrong because critizing grind is tricky. But you can't deny that there's a tipping point where a grind can be too much for too little payoff.

Oh sure. But if the sex/pregnancy/progression isn't the payoff than what would be?
Some see the gates as bad, but with no progression or exploration whats the point? Just arguing against a gameplay at that point.

 

[MadGenuis]

Oh sure. But if the sex/pregnancy/progression isn't the payoff than what would be?
Some see the gates as bad, but with no progression or exploration whats the point? Just arguing against a gameplay at that point.

Surely the lack of a payoff isn't the issue. People tend to be really fond to deal in absolutes regarding a lot of things, and grind is definitely one of those things. Some people will make wide, general statements that all grind is bad, while others will make equally general statements that grind is just an expected part of all gameplay and thus cannot be considered bad. A lot of people fail to consider that most things, including grindiness of gameplay, is not a binary condition that either exists or does not exist, nor can it even be considered a two-dimensional curve. It is something with a lot of factors that can make it more or less tolerable and enjoyable.

In its current iteration, Breeders of the Nephelim has a lot of Nephilim that can be collected, but most of them are gated behind progression that requires grind to get to, limiting how many you can get. Luckily the way to do this is to capture and/or breed the available types of nephilim, and there are a lot of different sexual positions that can be used for this... though these positions are also gated behind progression and requires a different kind of grind.
There is grind for world levels, there is grind for capturing nephilim with certain traits, there is grind for nephilim with better stats, grind for hybridization, grind for points for sexual positions... and the fact that almost everything is gated makes the grind toward progression that much less enjoyable.

There is also such a thing as making sure that grind is varied to make it more enjoyable. Once upon a time, the first time I really started to question the direction of this game was when sexual positions were locked away. I mean... initially you are so limited in what you can do, it's almost literally just repeating the same exact action over and over again. I can't imagine a lot of people still consider it a payoff or rewarding to watch a vulwarg have sex in the exact same position the tenth time in a row it happens. Or the fifteenth. Or the Twentieth.
Variety gradually sneaks in, but you have to grind so much for it that I don't even have the desire to try. Grind is fine, but it can be taken too far and become too monotonous. Having progression is good, but having that progression be slow and function by essentially locking away core aspects of the game and force grind to actually access them just ends up frustrating.

Gates, progression and grind aren't "good" or "bad," but they can be implemented well or poorly. If you enjoy the design of this gating and progression, good for you, but I seem to see a lot of people around here that agree that the way it is done here is not enjoyable.

 

[Squark ⚧❤️]

you're showing little respect for your player's time.

Unfortunately, this is par for the course when DH is involved.

 

[Draupnir7]

I'm one of those weirdos in between 'grind is bad' and 'grind is expected'. I'm more towards 'grind is expected', a childhood spent playing JRPGs has somewhat hardened me, but this game is one that takes a belt-sander to my patience.
I don't even watch the sex anymore, I just knock the critters together like action figures. And without save-scumming, it can take days in-game to get one of the little fuckholes pregnant, and then you have to wait several more days in-game to be disappointed out of the game when the trait you were hoping would be passed down isn't.

Each time I play this, after a bit, I decide to ignore progression until I get my stock of nephs roughly how I want them. And I don't mean max-ranked uber-chads or whatever, I just want to make sure I have a few males and females of each species that I can fairly reliably use to pass along traits, and hopefully get a near-perfect replica of one of the parents.
Neurotic, I know.
Well, I never get to that point. I get bored, and I get frustrated, and then I get fucking BORED. I can't even maintain my own goal of a personally-appealing breeding stock.

Your mileage may vary, but that's the mark of an awful grind to me.

 

[b00marrows]

alota fkn words

Man that was a read.

Well mainly the message was them saying "grind = bad" and my message was grind is a requirement for progression and advancement. As simple as that is, if it was too easy it would also be boring.

I feel a part of the issue is HOW people are playing. I have played the game for a LONG time now and have a pretty decent understanding on how to do things, this is likely why i find the grind more tolerable.
The end of the day this aint no gacha and there no dumb loan to repay so smash through the grind by jumping through the days. ezpz.

 

[MadGenuis]

Man that was a read.

Well mainly the message was them saying "grind = bad" and my message was grind is a requirement for progression and advancement. As simple as that is, if it was too easy it would also be boring.

I feel a part of the issue is HOW people are playing. I have played the game for a LONG time now and have a pretty decent understanding on how to do things, this is likely why i find the grind more tolerable.
The end of the day this aint no gacha and there no dumb loan to repay so smash through the grind by jumping through the days. ezpz.

You say "just game the system to make the grind easy." I (and others) say "if the system requires being gamed to be made tolerable, just make the grind easier in the first place." Just because a workaround for a problem exists, it doesn't mean the problem stops being a problem.
It's a similar issue as when bigger developers make games with intentionally slow progression, only to then sell various boosters to the players to let them pay you to fix the issue you yourself created... only there isn't even a micro-transaction here to explain why it's there. Not that having the micro-transaction would have been better, mind you - dear god no - but it would indicate why it is. As it is, all the grind does is to serve as a mild inconvenience to those who game the system, and a waste of time to the ones who don't. And a big encouragement to use the cheats for the game to skip some of the grind (and the game) entirely.

EDIT: For posterity finding this post and wondering why I quit the discussion, read the posts below this one on this page. I'm looking for amicable discussion, not opinions of "I don't give a fuck about the thing you care about" or "Oh no the games a bit grindy, what are you ever going to go??!? Jeez, grow a pair and get to work you fucking millennial." That is not the words of someone open to discussion.
I have said what I need to say, I think. Carry on, and have a nice day.

 

[b00marrows]

You say "just game the system to make the grind easy." I (and others) say "if the system requires being gamed to be made tolerable, just make the grind easier in the first place." Just because a workaround for a problem exists, it doesn't mean the problem stops being a problem.

Where did i say to "game the system"?

All i explained was that there's no loan to repay or day limit. No weird background timers or mechanics getting in the way of the player.
So just breed and sleep, nothing is stopping you from smashing through the grinding super fast.
There's even a "quick sex" option just to make the grind faster, use it.

 

[technomage]

There's even a "quick sex" option just to make the grind faster, use it.

Now if we only had a quick sex option for the wild sex, that would be great...waiting for the 5 bars to fill up is a pain in the arse. Yes I know we can turn off the wild sex, but that ruins some of the fun of the grind. Add in the ability of breaking out of the wild sex would be even better! Dunno how many better mobs I've lost because I was stuck in the wild sex of a mob I didn't want.

 

[b00marrows]

Now if we only had a quick sex option for the wild sex, that would be great

Oh god fuck yeah. No option to skip or make it faster, worst is when its someone you don't care about.
Dodging and running away helps but the only tip i can give is that you can use "interacting" to make all aggro drop (after a few seconds).

 

[Draupnir7]

Oh god fuck yeah. No option to skip or make it faster, worst is when its someone you don't care about.
Dodging and running away helps but the only tip i can give is that you can use "interacting" to make all aggro drop (after a few seconds).

Which is when the wonky targeting picks from the coom crowd chasing you instead of the one you're after, and you get jumped the moment you back off. Can't tell you how many times...

 

[muschi26]

Also, think about it for a moment: this is a porn game in which the porn gets so tedious that it’s preferable to skip it.

 

[Dirgha]

Now if we only had a quick sex option for the wild sex, that would be great...waiting for the 5 bars to fill up is a pain in the arse.
Dunno how many better mobs I've lost because I was stuck in the wild sex of a mob I didn't want.

That's what makes the game more realistic.
Playing in a fully controlled environment would be rather boring, isn't it?

 

[b00marrows]

Also, think about it for a moment: this is a porn game in which the porn gets so tedious that it’s preferable to skip it.

Well no.
If you wanna sit there and watch every single breeding session of every single monster, go for it.
I wanna get to the better stuff faster thanks.

 

[muschi26]

Well no.
If you wanna sit there and watch every single breeding session of every single monster, go for it.
I wanna get to the better stuff faster thanks.

What better stuff? Do you jack off to the level 3 traits under your nephs’ stats? Having sex with and knocking up a variety of cute monster girls is the point of the game lol. And that’s what gets tedious to the point of having to skip it.

 

[b00marrows]

Cut the crap.
I couldn't give less of a fuck about breeding 2 nephs together, i want to see the protagonist fucking each type of neph, not neph on neph.

 

[muschi26]

Cut the crap.
I couldn't give less of a fuck about breeding 2 nephs together, i want to see the protagonist fucking each type of neph, not neph on neph.

Where did I say neph on neph? Even if you only have sex with the PC, it’s going to take hundreds and hundreds of pregnancies (and so over a thousand instances of sex) to get all worlds to level 5 and obtain every other unlockable needed to “complete” the game. My point is that there’s nowhere near enough variety in monster girls and sex position/acts to keep that interesting the whole way through.

 

[RubyZeronyka]

Where did I say neph on neph? Even if you only have sex with the PC, it’s going to take hundreds and hundreds of pregnancies (and so over a thousand instances of sex) to get all worlds to level 5 and obtain every other unlockable needed to “complete” the game. My point is that there’s nowhere near enough variety in monster girls and sex position/acts to keep that interesting the whole way through.

And knowing Derelict lets pray he doesnt make the grind for the same things to go bigger and harder the next 5 updates. I remember back then before the gates when it didnt took too long for you to be able to breed a Jabberwock but today having the demon pool on lategame areas? Without cheats definitely not entertainimg enough to spend IRL days playing to get there.

 

[muschi26]

And i said i don't want to see each and every neph having sex, nor with each other. I want to see the player character having sex with different types of nephs.
Otherwise im gonna skip the breeding, I'm not even into pregnancy ffs.

Fine by me. Enjoy your ten monster girls and six sex positions as long as you want.

Oh no the games a bit grindy, what are you ever going to go??!? Jeez, grow a pair and get to work you fucking millennial.

Yeah, God forbid I use my limited time on this Earth to do stuff I like instead of shitty grinding in this forever-in-alpha grift of a game that doesn’t respect its players’ time.

 

[RubyZeronyka]

Fine by me. Enjoy your ten monster girls and six sex positions as long as you want.



Yeah, God forbid I use my limited time on this Earth to do stuff I like instead of shitty grinding in this forever-in-alpha grift of a game that doesn’t respect its players’ time.

Such as a game like Skyrim that offers part of what this games offers as unique with the pregnancy stuff but a trillion times more content in sex, their possibilities and not to mention that there are a massive amount of stuff you can do after the sex.

Some people seem to mot get the idea that is not just the idea of grinding or "Git Gud" what annoys the hell out of people not being able to stand it or whatever. But the idea of having lots of other games to spend your precious time on and wasting it on a game that feels so little rewarding in comparison. Like:

- Would I rather spend 10 IRL worth hours of gameplay in BotN trying to get a Jabberwock without cheats or building an entire familiy in more than one save in Skyrim? Skyrim goes.
- Would I rather grind for hours capturing and selling nephs to gain favor to learn one of the barely 10 sex positions in BotN or beat folks up while I can sex them up in Solas City where I can unlock up to a 100+ positions that can be used on both males and females/futas on any character? Solas City wins.
- Would I rather grind stay weeks to create the perfect homestead with the perfect looking neph family in BotN or spend the same amount in Wild Life creating in the sandbox the perfect Horny Jail scenario where I can have a similar looking repertoire of exotic looking characters? Horny Jail, I mean, Wild Life wins (Not to mention that the whole Lovense suport of BotN seems oddly coincidental with the fact that WL implemented it first).
- Even if I think of fully pregnancy/offspring purely based features, many things still feels odd, like if the two parents are thin you could end up getting a fat offspring and honestly it feels like the neph doesnt truly relate with the parents.

So some people before criticising others to not stand the BS games like this forces you to deal with, they need to remember that we are givinf a shitly lacking game like this a chance where others excell even on the same areas this game tries to cover so at least they should show a minimum of respect. But I guess they share the same mentality as certain genres like fighters do, make the games as hard as possible and keep the 3-4 dummies that play them as their playerbase until enough people leave it and forces the dev or dev team behind it having to shut it down.

And thats cause the save modification thing changed a lot for me allowing you to use on newer game versions old saves, but Im also a roleplayer who likes to play as different characters with different aproaches so in one way or another I have to start all over again, amd games like this are terrible at making that experience (Which btw is the suposedly intended one by Derelict) is just so damn hollow that people inevitably would point out their issues. But hey, if none can mention it then let it sink into oblivion then.

 

[Draupnir7]

You are playing a videogame. You don't even respect your time.
Also ruby, someone who can type out thousands of characters in a post and still result in meaningless drivel.

Heres an idea. If you don't like the game, go play something else.

The problem is, they want to like the game more than the game or even DH is letting them. Updates like spreading the sex positions out to each area are like slapping a person for enjoying a sandwich too much.
I remember being confused when that happened, because there was really no good reason for it. Even if I accepted progression-based positions, why not just put Pawsmati in a single location and lock purchase of positions behind having at least one neph from the zone where you get the position from now? Tracking her down in each new zone may not be difficult, but it's annoying, because I can remember when I didn't have to.
Player-discovered shortcuts really shouldn't be used to justify gameplay issues. Use 'em if you want while they're around, I myself merrily jumped off cliffs to cut travel time from town to home before the spiteful ankle-snapping and cliff scaffolding were added. And sure, I can savescum until the nephs I want pregnant are pregnant, and sure, I can just sleep away several days waiting for all the pregnancies to wrap up, and sure, I can sequence break here and there to avoid a gate or two.
But being able to do those things does not excuse the issues with gameplay that drove players to seek ways to avoid those issues. It fuckin' highlights them. What do the gates add? Why spread the positions out like that? Why does a newly-born neph take so much time in the beginning?
BotN has been around long enough that DH should know what he's doing or where he's going with it, but this many years out it still feels like he doesn't. And the grind has been increased several times without better or additional payoff. I want to play BotN, but every time I try a new version, it feels like BotN and DH don't want me to. Which sucks, because I don't want to just be horny, I can do that anywhere. I want to play a fucking monster breeding game, it's why I'm here in the fucking first place.
It's not up to me to respect my time. It's getting spent whether I want it to or not, I can't stay in bed for a whole day and cash it in later. It's up to the game developer to respect my time, my part is to meet them somewhere halfway and accept that part of the time is going to be burned engaging with their game and setting up a payoff, with a certain amount going towards enjoying that payoff. It's like that with every game, regardless of taste. And the time spent versus the time enjoyed for BotN seems to be favoring time spent more and more, and the time enjoyed isn't getting any shinier. If that doesn't bother you, good for you. But the amount of people dissatisfied with how things are going seems to keep growing, which says to me there's a problem somewhere, and I doubt very much that the audience is the main issue.

Even if some of them... like, what the fuck is Ruby trying to say? I CAN'T TELL HELP