Ren'Py Brothel King [v0.3] [Goldo]

[Jman9]

I think you're both starting to reach a little. Goldo is not talking about a universal revamp of the save system. He's talking about disabling its effects for one specific mechanic.

You could just have a flag 'gizel_screws_her_up' set to true or false at chargen either randomly or procedurally, and if that's set Gizel will traumatise her. You can reload, you can't reload yourself into a game state where Gizel benefits that particular girl.

Or something else that works similarly.

NaoSoul also seems to have missed the fact that ('true') rogulikes, ironman modes and fixed random seeds are very much a thing and nobody bats an eye at them these days. Their point is to remove the temptation to save-scum too much and too easily, not disable it altogether.

 

[ekusonas]

I think you're being too absolutist about it. One quote I like on game design is, "given the opportunity, many players will optimize the fun out of the game entirely".

I don't think you could argue that having save-scumming active in, say, darkest dungeon or Faster Than Light would improve those games in any way, just because they're single-player. Of course, BK is not a rogue-like, so I am generally very liberal with save-scumming. But for some specific issues, such as dice rolls, I prefer to lock the player out of that option, simply because reloading a saved game endlessly until you get the best roll isn't fun. In a game like BK featuring lots of random generation, you could easily grind the whole experience to a halt by save-scumming all the time, for everything. Of course, you could argue it's the problem of the player if that happens, since because it's a single player game, it only affects their own experience.

But if I can nudge the player in the right direction to make it easier on themselves, why not do it?

I'm going to reiterate what I posted in my last comment because it seems it went unread...

The game already incorporates magic abilities, perhaps something in that route would be a way to actually 'fix' the situation you described. Alternatively something like finding a buyer who specifically wants these 'broken' girls (for whatever possibly nefarious purpose) and pays a good reward for them could make it so that even if you do get this 'bad' outcome it can still benefit the player in some fashion. What I'm trying to suggest is not simply coming up with ways to punish a player because 'they're evil'.

If all a mechanic in the game is doing is punishing you for something (especially if it's just failing an RNG check), players will find ways to avoid it unless it can lead to some kind of interesting outcome.

 

[Guarsian]

I think you're both starting to reach a little. Goldo is not talking about a universal revamp of the save system. He's talking about disabling its effects for one specific mechanic.

You could just have a flag 'gizel_screws_her_up' set to true or false at chargen either randomly or procedurally, and if that's set Gizel will traumatise her. You can reload, you can't reload yourself into a game state where Gizel benefits that particular girl.

Or something else that works similarly.

NaoSoul also seems to have missed the fact that ('true') rogulikes, ironman modes and fixed random seeds are very much a thing and nobody bats an eye at them these days. Their point is to remove the temptation to save-scum too much and too easily, not disable it altogether.

^A much better explanation Thank you

 

[__neronero]

I'm going to reiterate what I posted in my last comment because it seems it went unread...

The game already incorporates magic abilities, perhaps something in that route would be a way to actually 'fix' the situation you described. Alternatively something like finding a buyer who specifically wants these 'broken' girls (for whatever possibly nefarious purpose) and pays a good reward for them could make it so that even if you do get this 'bad' outcome it can still benefit the player in some fashion. What I'm trying to suggest is not simply coming up with ways to punish a player because 'they're evil'.

If all a mechanic in the game is doing is punishing you for something (especially if it's just failing an RNG check), players will find ways to avoid it unless it can lead to some kind of interesting outcome.

I suggested something similar myself and I do think it could be interesting. However, Jman rightly pointed out that this is essentially solving one niche feature's shortcomings with another (by definition even more niche) feature. This approach to designing a game is a bit risky in the long term, especially while so many other more prominent parts of the game could still be developed further.

 

[hrjfwf4]

Hi i have a question concerning the TraitKing Trait Mentor. Could it be that having Mentor and Leading by Example from the bride tree cancel each other out? I´m no good with code so i have no way of looking into it. I hope someone can help since its kinda bugging me

 

[cosmonight19]

my two cents are just, make it so this "broken" state isn't purely a negative. i'd give it some kind of risk and reward feature. like, maybe three different states associated with different personalities. a broken one who becomes completely obedient and uses less energy but gets a hit to customer satisfaction, a violent one who can take more customers but has a chance to attack customers or other girls, and... idk some other third one if you wanted to go that route.

if the route to prevent save-scumming is just make it generated with the girl, i'd at least have Gizel give some kind of warning that the girl's reaching her limits and give the player a chance to back down maybe two or three rounds of training before the break since they'd just reload anyways if they really don't want it so their invisible sanity gauge or whatever can refill. and of course, have Gizel shittalk the player if they do for being a wuss since that's just how she be.

making it just a pure punishment just makes it feel like shit if it happens, especially if it's just a random diceroll, so it should have at least some kind of benefit to it since that'd make it potentially an interesting decision instead of just "man it sure did suck that happened." i haven't really done any evil playthroughs myself cuz i just haven't really seen much benefit to it, and giving evil players features that can rng punish them would just further disincentivize taking that route.

as for being able to fix it, i think i'd prefer it being a permanent thing but if you wanted to add a way to fix the state, maybe the first time it happens you get a sidequest to follow that lets you learn a spell or whatever that makes her "forget" the trauma, or have the option to just spend stamina trying to talk to the girl and be more gentle with her until it's undone but... i feel like to make that latter option really click and not feel jarring you'd have to take the time giving the girl like, stages to her recovery and i think that'd be more work than worthwhile, especially since... well, i don't think many "evil" characters would be invested enough in the girl's wellbeing to go to that much effort lmao

EDIT: realized a few minutes after hitting enter that the idea in the 1st paragraph could be like, a pool of traits that replace one of the girl's traits (maybe the 2nd positive trait so it doesn't overwrite an original's gold or the special negative traits like godless), and depending on the pool you could intentionally want to break a girl to replace that trait if you didn't like it and wanted to potentially give her a different one.

 

[__neronero]

Hi i have a question concerning the TraitKing Trait Mentor. Could it be that having Mentor and Leading by Example from the bride tree cancel each other out? I´m no good with code so i have no way of looking into it. I hope someone can help since its kinda bugging me

By cancelling eachother out, do you mean both of them don't work? In theory the effect should still work, but the second source of the effect will not make the effect any different than having only having one source.

 

[DougTheC]

We'll have to create a list of things to (attempt to) recover if it comes to that. I recently searched through google's cache to list a few important links.

As for the lore, you're in luck:

You must be registered to see the links

.

113 total captures of HHS BK forum on archive.org:

You must be registered to see the links

 

[DougTheC]

pls can someone help me with this? im suck at this kind of thing.


PS: thanks

Your message shows that you have old base code from "v 0.2 Test" combined with recent update patch, resulting in a code part being included in two source files.

Redownload from following links required; you can copy or move files in "game/girls" folder to new install:

I can verify you need to download the

You must be registered to see the links

(v 0.2 release), followed by

You must be registered to see the links

Best done in new folder to avoid recompile problems; new game required.

 

[hrjfwf4]

By cancelling eachother out, do you mean both of them don't work? In theory the effect should still work, but the second source of the effect will not make the effect any different than having only having one source.

Oh ok thx i just thought it may stack and since i didn´t see any notification for the effect occurring i presumed that the first one activated the perk by changing it from false to true and the second one did it the other way around. Also thx for clarifying that they don´t stack since it isn´t just added a second time but overwriting the earlier one.

 

[The_fallen_dragon]

As a habitual savescummer, I do have an answer to that. You can save-scum to nudge the game in your favour , and you can save-scum it into something that was never even vaguely expected by the author.

My favourite example is from my other mod: there is a random number that controls whether a (potentially) very powerful enemy comes after you. You can control the circumstances surrounding that random number so that the enemy is not generated. You cannot just reload yourself out of those bad circumstances with enough patience. This is a core mechanic that the player must address, and he's free to savescum the less consequential stuff - like combat rolls, treasure looted, infamy gained and lost, etc - so he can do so.

YMMV, of course.

While I'm just glancing though these comments and don't have 100% grasp of the full context of the conversations, to this ill say, so what? It's a single player game with the keyword being single. Save cumming effects no one but the player who choices to diminish their own experience. It doesn't effect other players and how they chose to play or the developer and what they are building unless the developer is an egomaniac who believes everyone must doing things their way and any other way that players find to do something much be shut down.

If we do something to or in a game unintended and it breaks out games it's out fault/problen not the developers.

 

[Jman9]

Save cumming effects no one but the player...

Savescumming and how it's handled or not handled also affects the developer and how he designs the game. If savescumming is trivial, both savescummers and non-savescummers must be entertained, use cases for both tested, the dev must decide how to treat random seeds, etc. Pretending otherwise is narcissism.

...believes everyone must doing things their way and any other way that players find to do something much be shut down.

There can be multiple viable paths to success with none of them being reliant on savescumming. Most good games have it so, in fact.

If we do something to or in a game unintended and it breaks out games it's out fault/problen not the developers.

If game dev actually worked that way, it'd make life sooo much easier. Your mouse drivers are incompatible? Not the developer's fault/problem. Savescumming corrupts your saves? Not the developer's fault/problem. The game becomes completely trivial and boring due to just occasionally reloading, not even true savescumming? Not the developer's fault/problem.

Most players would take a very dim view of a mainstream developer who actually did any of that.

 

[KL-001-A]

IMO, savescumming/cheating in a singleplayer game is fine. My game has a couple secrets that I don't particularly want anyone cheating to find, but I've put zero effort into preventing people from doing so.

I cheat/savescum on all kinds of Slave Maker clones and brothel sims (and cheap ren'py VNs) all the time, since most devs like to expect you to click "next day" literally thousands of times to progress anywhere, or deal with RNG stuff like "there's a chance Event K will happen on every third monday of every month, and you have to do this event twelve times to earn enough likeability points for Waifu B so you can progress through the story."

This game, I was so annoyed by the NPCs and how many the game throws at you that I cheated for money and stats just so I can brute force any events the game has and reduce how many NPCs get involved. Skipped all the cutscenes, auto-won any events, all so I can fool around with my onsen staff more and see what the game has to offer, downloading different girl packs to find which ones have fun, unique events outside the generic ones, etc.

 

[Jman9]

IMO, savescumming/cheating in a singleplayer game is fine.

Not when a savescummer enjoys a qualitative advantage over a non-savescummer. In that case, you're either happy to leave your game broken, or not and find some way to mitigate the damage. Why do you think so many (yes, single-player) games have fixed random seeds and possibly a 'savescummers option' to get rid of those?

My game has a couple secrets that I don't particularly want anyone cheating to find...

Now that is exactly the problem people have been talking about for the last few pages. This is not what I mean, and I agree with the "eh, it's fine" crowd on that point.

This game, I was so annoyed by the NPCs and how many the game throws at you that I cheated for money and stats...

That's fine, you deliberately broke your game. I do the same on occasion, and have shown others how to do it for my other mod in damnably annoyingly great detail.

The point of save scumming is that it's 'legit' in the sense that a good developer must have a plan for handling such an outlier situation. They are under no obligation to do so - not is it even practical - if you go and slice the game into ribbons and reassemble it how you see fit.

 

[DougTheC]

Hello, F95zone Moderators!

I have been assigned from the Brothel King (created by Goldo) community to ask that its F95zone thread and OP be updated for some recent changes.

I will try to lay out the needed changes in a straightforward way, and keep to the format that your site uses.

I have submitted some earlier updates for the OP, so do not anticipate "authorization/permission" problems. Please let me know immediately if you have questions on that topic.

The main changes are because Brothel King (BK) moved from old "v 0.2 Test" that the thread/OP has, to new "v 0.2 Release" content, created about Feb 11, 2022.

The base game will need to be re-downloaded, plus latest update patch, for users that have the old "v 0.2 Test" game. It is important that this information is visible to users on the OP, to prevent crashes. Other changes are included to better show BK's current development status, as we think users of your site deserve some updated information.

I will give the requested changes in a private F95zone conversation that the mod responding initiates, after I report this post for that purpose.

 

[hrjfwf4]

In theory the effect should still work, but the second source of the effect will not make the effect any different than having only having one source.

Oh now that i think about it does that also mean that Angelic does not stack with tempting fate? If thats the case it kinda seems pointless to have this trait since it even puts you into the Fox path

 

[__neronero]

Oh now that i think about it does that also mean that Angelic does not stack with tempting fate? If thats the case it kinda seems pointless to have this trait since it even puts you into the Fox path

Now that you mention it the ingame description is misleading. The vanilla source of this effect Tempting Fate works as described (+100% chance), but the Trait King traits share the same description despite having different odds (Dull = -50% chance, Angelic = +25% chance)

That being said, they do stack so Angelic + Tempting Fate = +125% chance
I believe Angelic was also +100% in older versions of Trait King, but that was insanely overpowered (especially since it stacks; Tempting Fate on its own is already very strong)


goldo00 Could this description perhaps be modified in the base game?

BKclasses.rpy line 3704

                    text1 += "doubles the base chance of perks activating (up to a maximum of 50%)"

to (for example)

                    text1 += "multiplies the base chance of perks activating by " + str(1 + value) + " (up to a maximum of 50%)"

 

[hrjfwf4]

thx for the fast response _neronero glad to hear that

 

[Paitryn]

so with this latest update my girls are getting hurt in the beginning way too often. I started with one girl she gets hurt every 3 days for 5 days and if i hire any more security i lose money. She even has the bride perk that gives +1 to security. I can't buy more girls because she spends more time hurt than active.

 

[Jman9]

What's hurting her? Violent customers? Ban thugs/sailors and don't let too many horny mofos show up, i.e. don't advertise as much. The amount of violent customers scales with their total number.

You could also try sending her on quests. Don't know if that works while you're still in the 'only one girl' stage.