VN Ren'Py Captive Consciousness [v0.1.1] [TinyDogStudio]

[someyoungguy]

I think I will rewrite it so that she is considering doing it instead of the MC catching her already doing it. Or maybe I will change it so that it is her first stream and she does it as a way to get MC's attention. I didn't really plan on making it a big plot point or anything, but just as a way to break the ice with the MC. At the very least, I don't see any harm in rewriting it so that it's something new she has only done one time out of curiosity/desperation. I agree with ImSenjou that it does seem a bit out of character for her anyways.

Imo, the biggest problem with it is that it doesn't seem to fit with her character as presented. It isn't uncommon for people who are shy to be more interested in or adventurous with sex when they feel safe with their partner/situation. The issue isn't necessarily that she's shy specifically, it's that there's no clear reason given why she's interested in it at all. I think fixing it to appease the people who are turned off by her doing it is a mistake, in that many of them are going to be just as turned off that she's even considering it. You're never going to be able to appease that crowd fully without taking camming out of her story entirely. Changing your story to appease them is misguided, and sets a dangerous precedent that you will cave to whatever demands they make in the future. If you want to adjust the framing of the situation, that should be left to your judgement, but either way, the most important thing is that you let MC get to know her well enough to understand why she is doing/interested in it to begin with, before the MC becomes involved in that aspect of her life. The mentality that women being interested in/liking sex makes them a whore/slut is a childish one that no amount of changes to your story will stop complaints from, so you shouldn't take those into consideration while you try to fix you story. The problem you have is a narrative one, not a fetishistic one, and you should approach it accordingly

 

[The Daydreamer]

Changing your story to appease them is misguided, and sets a dangerous precedent that you will cave to whatever demands they make in the future.

This is a work in progress and the first version of the game so changing anything isn't necessarily misguided (and probably a better time to do so than remaking stuff one year from now like we see sometimes... Right now, the butterfly effect would be minimal and the dev wouldn't feel the invisible pressure from many patrons hungry for new content ) if the dev actually agrees with some of the feedback. Obviously, changing anything just because he felt pressured to do so would set a bad precedent like you said but changing something because he feels it can enhance his game somehow would just be a dev being humble enough to use feedback to make a product he likes even more (and might also please more people but on that part, since you'll never please everyone, it shouldn't be your main motivation unless you're only in it for the money but I'd like to think most of these indie projects are born from passion and dedication instead of greed ).

I think I will rewrite it so that she is considering doing it instead of the MC catching her already doing it.

Personally, I would welcome this change mostly because you already explained there were two routes planned for that character with camgirling not being a thing on the love path. That would mean this activity isn't vital to your story and we would still have the opportunity to explore the reasons that made her even considering it in the first place. So I think this rewrite could be a good thing and make a more wholesome experience with Hailey (and I would be grateful for it cause her personality/model seems to be right up my alley but her job might definitely be definitely a turn-off on the more romantic path ).
Because of this, I think an interesting way to handle this would have been to make the MC have a direct influence on her "career path" (even unknowingly to the MC because that can't be something Hailey asks him point blank, we could have a choice in a conversation where the MC drops a comment that gives away what he thinks about camgirling) cause it would also make the corruption route even more spicy it the MC had a hand in it (I think it's more worthwhile to corrupt the innocent instead of corrupting even more someone who's already down the corruption path all by herself ).
Just my two cents obviously because I think both paths could be more enticing this way but at the end of the day, only you know what's best depending on what you have planned later on...

In any case, thanks for sharing your game and good luck working on the next version!

 

[MiltonPowers]

Hey TinyDogStudio, I found a few technical problems.

In one playthrough I didn't tell Sharron about Alice, and MC tells the girls 'His wife will find out", but all she said was she'd try and convince him to talk to MC.

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I know you fixed the name thing, but I also noticed a number of times when a name is general conversation, it is not capitalized like in this shot.

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And a spelling mistake. It's candidates.

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Good luck with future updates, buddy. Promising start.

 

[Naps-On-Dirt]

This is a work a progress and the first version of the game so changing anything isn't necessarily misguided (and probably a better time to do so than remaking stuff one year from now like we see sometimes... Right now, the butterfly effect would be minimal and the dev wouldn't feel the invisible pressure from many patrons hungry for new content ) if the dev actually agrees with some of the feedback. Obviously, changing anything just because he felt pressured to do so would set a bad precedent like you said but changing something because he feels it can enhance his game somehow would just be a dev being humble enough to use feedback to make a product he likes even more (and might also please more people but on that part, since you'll never please everyone, it shouldn't be your main motivation unless you're only in it for the money but I'd like to think most of these indie projects are born from passion and dedication instead of greed ).

I concur. 0.1 versions are here for feedback, best way for devs to get free spell checking and bug reports. But its also a good way for a dev to get new insights from perspectives they hadn't considered before. In a recent 0.1 release of a different game, the MC's teacher uses a ploy to get him to stay after class to ask him a favor. The dev is obviously not an introvert and wrote the scene in such a way that it caused a bunch of negative reactions for both how the teacher handled it (which the introverts felt would have been uncomfortable and humiliating in front of the class) and the lack of adequate reaction options from the MC about it (All there was was a "no thanks", when us introverts wanted to be able to say "fuck no, and fuck you" before storming off.) The 0.1.1 came out a few days later and that scene is no longer a distraction from the story, I had no reservations accepting the teachers proposal.

 

[zilzmaer]

...The mentality that women being interested in/liking sex makes them a whore/slut is a childish one...

you're not wrong, but that's not the issue here; the issue is that she's selling her body. it's a pretty different thing than just being interested in sex.

...it would also make the corruption route even more spicy it the MC had a hand in it (I think it's more worthwhile to corrupt the innocent instead of corrupting even more someone who's already down the corruption path all by herself )...

this is just my personal taste, but if the idea were that she's innocent and the protag corrupts her into camgirling, i'd rather it be a deliberate choice on the part of the protag. as corruption paths go, doing it with intent is a lot more compelling to me than having the corruption be accidental.

 

[ryansFLYIN]

In a recent 0.1 release of a different game, the MC's teacher uses a ploy to get him to stay after class to ask him a favor. The dev is obviously not an introvert and wrote the scene in such a way that it caused a bunch of negative reactions for both how the teacher handled it (which the introverts felt would have been uncomfortable and humiliating in front of the class) and the lack of adequate reaction options from the MC about it (All there was was a "no thanks", when us introverts wanted to be able to say "fuck no, and fuck you" before storming off.) The 0.1.1 came out a few days later and that scene is no longer a distraction from the story, I had no reservations accepting the teachers proposal.

If you're talking about that game with the curly-headed MC who's a French exchange student... I remember playing the 2nd update and being confused when I replayed it and I didn't hate the teacher when I was pretty sure I told her to fuck right off the first time around. That was a good change because the first iteration she was just a cunt for the sake of being a cunt.

Taking feedback isn't selling out, and the people that say that it is are just as bad as the "you need to change this character how I want or I'm putting your game on ignore" people. They make the claim that the dev should do what they want... but "no, not like that!" if its something they don't agree with.

If the dev wants to participate here and listen to feedback, let them. They're an adult - no one is forcing them to make any changes. Do you think published authors get it right on the first go? Fuck no, they don't. They have a publisher or editor who tells them to go back and change a scene to make a character more likably to the audience all the time.

Personally, I don't like sex workers as love interests, and that includes camgirls. So it's in my interest to see the scene changed. Since the topic is opened, then I like the idea of her thinking about it and the MC confronting her before she does. That way if you want to corrupt her, you can encourage her. Or if you don't like that, you can discourage her. How does she come up with the idea? Well, she mentioned money problems. Even if she's super shy, she could have some friend or acquaintance - maybe she does it and the MC overhears a phone call or discussion where the friend is telling her how great the money is. Honestly, there are a few ways for the wheels to start spinning but never gain traction.

Dev should do what they want, even if that includes accepting feedback/making changes.

 

[Havenless_]

Aww cmon, why does the harem route have to be the corruption route?

It could simply be split into romance/corruption. And in both you can have the harem. If you want a relationship with just one girl, you just pursue that girl's route, choosing whether to corrupt or romance her. If you want to go for the harem, you go for all the girls and choose their respective route.

I think there are a lot of harem players who prefer wholesome stories and/or romances. Leaving the harem route exclusively for corruption seems like a pretty bad idea to me.

 

[zilzmaer]

probably because it's not very romantic to be cheating on six different girls simultaneously, nor is it romantic to be fine with being cheated on. in fact, that's pretty corrupt. one might even think there could be a route based around such corruption; perhaps we could call it a corruption route?

 

[TinyDogStudio]

Thanks everyone for your comments. I am enjoying reading them all.

I have already rewrote and changed Hailey's story in regards to her camgirl activities. The kitchen scene now plays first where you can decide if she should become a camgirl or not. If you approve then you will see the scene where she is streaming at night. If you choose to disapprove you get a different scene that will be available in the next update.

I actually like the revised version better and prefer it over the way it was before, so I'm happy to have changed it.

 

[Forgotted]

Otherwise, the orphan talk seems a tiny bit silly (to me anyway..unless I have something wrong...which is pretty likely..)
I mean, the mc was already an adult when his father died, so not an orphan.

The girls are all pretty enough. Good job

They could give a tiny bit more info on the story...I understand trying to keep things a mystery, but
not enough information doesn't help. (Though I think the story might be picking up now..)

Cheers
Best of luck

 

[TinyDogStudio]

Otherwise, the orphan talk seems a tiny bit ignorant (to me anyway..unless I have something wrong...which is pretty likely..)
I mean, the mc was already an adult when his father died, so not an orphan.

Months back when I first wrote the synopsis, I wasn't sure about using the term. I had Googled if it was correct to use it for someone who was already 18 (no longer a child) and got mixed results. Because the main characters mother is not in the picture, I wanted a word that told people that with the loss of his father he now had no parents left. I guess it's not really relevant though and the MC having no family is written in the game anyways. I went ahead and rewrote the summary. Thanks for bringing it up and getting me thinking about it again.

 

[Forgotted]

Gotcha,
Anyway, I still think you've done an amazing job.
Going from a 'blank piece of paper' to an idea, story, script, images, and everything else
involved to a fully released game. I'd imagine it's a pretty neat feeling watching folks download/play it.



At the moment I have 2 different saves to see how much of a difference my choices will make.

Still waiting for one of the women to smack the MC up side his head when they catch him staring... lol


Anywho
Cheers

 

[XV71]

Imo, the biggest problem with it is that it doesn't seem to fit with her character as presented. It isn't uncommon for people who are shy to be more interested in or adventurous with sex when they feel safe with their partner/situation. The issue isn't necessarily that she's shy specifically, it's that there's no clear reason given why she's interested in it at all. I think fixing it to appease the people who are turned off by her doing it is a mistake, in that many of them are going to be just as turned off that she's even considering it. You're never going to be able to appease that crowd fully without taking camming out of her story entirely. Changing your story to appease them is misguided, and sets a dangerous precedent that you will cave to whatever demands they make in the future. If you want to adjust the framing of the situation, that should be left to your judgement, but either way, the most important thing is that you let MC get to know her well enough to understand why she is doing/interested in it to begin with, before the MC becomes involved in that aspect of her life. The mentality that women being interested in/liking sex makes them a whore/slut is a childish one that no amount of changes to your story will stop complaints from, so you shouldn't take those into consideration while you try to fix you story. The problem you have is a narrative one, not a fetishistic one, and you should approach it accordingly

women being interested in or liking sex does not make them a whore, women sharing their body to earn money does, there are so many other ways to convey she is interested in sex without making her a cam whore, have her experiment with sex toys/kinks of hers, ramp it up slowly to the point where she finds the courage to somehow include mc in her adventures, having her be a camgirl just because, is just dumb character assassination.

 

[zilzmaer]

having her be a camgirl just because, is just dumb character assassination

acting in unpopular ways isn't character assassination, character assassination is a deliberate attempt to ruin the reputation of another person. she also isn't doing it "just because"; she's doing it for the money, because she's already living in someone else's house for free and doesn't want to have to ask for money too. you're right about the rest, though.

 

[Beast Within]

acting in unpopular ways isn't character assassination, character assassination is a deliberate attempt to ruin the reputation of another person. she also isn't doing it "just because"; she's doing it for the money, because she's already living in someone else's house for free and doesn't want to have to ask for money too. you're right about the rest, though.

and the solution to that is to become an online prostitude. smart girl. I mean, being a waitress or something sounds pretty demeaning, compared to showing your asshole to random retards on the internet

and as for character assassination, you missed the point. he wasnt talking plot wise. he was talking market wise. and it is( just as in real life), character assassination because you (not you), as a dev, made one of your game's characters unapealing to prtty much everyone who is not a white knight.
the dev admited that he used that plot point to "break the ice" as if there are no other ways to do that.

no dev has managed to save a character with this short of plot background unless they remove it completely. prime example of how to save your game is the libido enigma where one of the lis was an escort and after the rage the dev got he changed it. I have more examples, but cant recall the names now, of devs having to remove whole characters from the game because of the player base reaction. and the bad thing is, that this shit, only usually happens with harem games. prostitude lis, raped lis, sex worker lis, lis with a past shown, described or otherwise.
it is as if no harem fan ever has stated what they want and not want in their game.

on a personal note, best of health and happy holidays

 

[Naps-On-Dirt]

So, like, if a camgirl is also a virgin, does the "camgirls are whores" camp's brains divide by zero and everyone core dumps and reboots? Prostitution and 'being a whore' require sex.
Showing your body for money makes you a model, even if it is lewd or erotic or outright pornographic, she still just a model.

 

[Beast Within]

So, like, if a camgirl is also a virgin, does the "camgirls are whores" camp's brains divide by zero and everyone core dumps and reboots? Prostitution and 'being a whore' require sex.
Showing your body for money makes you a model, even if it is lewd or erotic or outright pornographic, she still just a model.

strawmaning in all its glory
who said anything about virgins

prostitution has evolved from the once known as street lady or lady of the night. now it is under the umbrela of the "sex worker" phrase which covers all forms of the porn industry.
does not require penetrative sex. it requires the intent. if for example a woman takes money to show herself naked while you masturbate without touching her it is still prostitution and in many states or countries it is illegal prostitution.

its the intention behind the action that makes the difference from modeling to prostitution. now you can argue that models can be exploited and/or chose to prostitute themselves for money as well, to which you would be correct. but modeling in itself is about selling clothes while prostitutes are selling themselves be it physically or visualy meaning a woman who sells her nudes for money is still a sex worker, either she does it herself or through an agency because the intent behind it is to evoke sexual desire and offer sexual satisfaction to the customer.

so bottom line, you can chose to call a cam girl actor, performer, enterpreneur, but at the end of the day she sells herself for me to fap. hence she is a "whore"/prostitute/sex worker.

 

[zilzmaer]

So, like, if a camgirl is also a virgin, does the "camgirls are whores" camp's brains divide by zero and everyone core dumps and reboots? Prostitution and 'being a whore' require sex.
Showing your body for money makes you a model, even if it is lewd or erotic or outright pornographic, she still just a model.

so, in your opinion, if a woman participates in a blowjob-only gloryhole business, she isn't a prostitute? retarded take, actual room temp iq. prostitution is selling sexual services, not only penis-in-vagina penetrative sex. further, being a model and a prostitute are not mutually exclusive, some jobs (such as porn star) will require both.

also you seem to fundamentally misunderstand the desirability of virgins/whores. being a virgin doesn't automatically make a woman the best thing ever and completely irresistible, and being a whore doesn't automatically make a woman the worst thing ever, utter garbage fit only to throw in the trash. being virginal makes a woman more desirable, and being whoreish makes a woman less so, but some virgins are still going to be intolerable and undesirable while some whores will still be acceptable. where that line is depends on the man and woman in question.