Change my mind: NTR

[danteworks]

I will try to build a cogent argument.

• A game tagged with 'NTR' on f95 is the game version of the cuckold fetish, where the player character is is cucked. It must be the player character.
• You are not strictly an NTR fan just because a game you play includes NTR. Similarly, you aren't a fan of BBC just because there is a black dick in the game by happenstance.
• However, if you make the declaration that you enjoy BBC games, are selective for BBC games, or are a fan of BBC games, you must like black penis in your games, and it is a draw for you. Otherwise, you would not say that you enjoyed BCC. Similarly, if you declare that you enjoy NTR games, NTR is the draw to the game.
• The only thing that NTR differs from non-NTR games is that it has a cuck fetish
• Therefore, by seeking out to play NTR games over non NTR games, or even having an affinity to NTR games, the player must be into the cuck fetish.

And well, that means you take sexual pleasure from having your love interest railed by another man.

I have had some people try to claim that NTR games is not just a cuck fetish, but about story, that they don't really insert themselves into the player character, and therefore are not being 'cucked'. I would then contend, however, that if this were true, they would not make the claim that they enjoy NTR games, as the defining feature of NTR is the cuck aspect, and they should then also enjoy games tagged with 'cheating.'

My viewpoint on this is clearly that I associate NTR with cuckoldry. However, I think that NTR lovers should be able to enjoy their NTR games, just as scat lovers can enjoy their scat games. I use scat as an example, because it's universally distasteful (perhaps even more than NTR).

Q: Under this analysis, am I a cuck? I enjoy a game with an NTR tag!
A: Not necessarily, see BBC example.

Q: I search the latest update tab for games tagged with 'NTR' predominantly. What does this say about me?
A: It means that you enjoy the cuckold fetish since you search for it predominantly.

So what do we think?

## My game (Depravity) does not include NTR - just wanted to make it very clear for my players (and future players too!) ##

 

[Beardedsmith]

I agree with a lot of this, as an NTR fan, except the issue of liking games tagged as cheating. Most the time games tagged as cheating are the MC cucking someone else or a female protag cheating which isn't the same as NTR and thus not strictly attractive to people with the fetish.

I also certainly don't desire to see my SO have sex with or be stolen by another man. It is a point of great anxiety if I am honest. However, the way I deal with that anxiety is to embrace NTR and let myself take the role of the powerless partner through these games. Both because of being cheated on in the past and the fear of it happening again. While it certainly isn't the same as women who get into more hardcore sexual fantasies after experiencing sexual assault it is, for me, in the same realm of using the fetish as a coping mechanism.

 

[baka]

I do not agree.
Im one of those people that play NTR games but do not like NTR.
When a NTR game is about to cuck the player, theres nothing exciting there.
But a game when you play the female character, and you can push her into the arms of another dude, that for me is enjoyable. Preferable a obese dude, or old dude, its about the corruption of her.
But I do not see myself from that "cucked boyfriend" perspective, as I dont give a crap about him,
the only thing that is "important" about him, is that I know "she" has someone, a loved one and she is about to have sex with someone else. it gives a bit of spice. but its not needed, she can be single as well.

another situation is the boyfriend blindfold his girlfriend, and another dude is there to take his place.
I do not enjoy the scene because im thinking "oh im there to watch my girlfriend getting fucked", but more
"she is unaware of what is happening, another dude is touching her" that for me is enjoyable. so again, from her perspective.

Unfortunately most "dude" games are about a dude in a harem situation. (and that for me is boring, to watch a dude getting lucky, I actually dont care about other dudes, for me a dude game is to watch another dude getting lucky, so its kinda cuckold for me, its like watching a porn-movie and you watch the male pornstar, I actually watch porn because of the girls)
that is why "NTR" is mostly what I play, because many games include female perspective.

 

[danteworks]

I do not agree.
Im one of those people that play NTR games but do not like NTR.
When a NTR game is about to cuck the player, theres nothing exciting there.
But a game when you play the female character, and you can push her into the arms of another dude, that for me is enjoyable. Preferable a obese dude, or old dude, its about the corruption of her.
But I do not see myself from that "cucked boyfriend" perspective, as I dont give a crap about him,
the only thing that is "important" about him, is that I know "she" has someone, a loved one and she is about to have sex with someone else. it gives a bit of spice. but its not needed, she can be single as well.

another situation is the boyfriend blindfold his girlfriend, and another dude is there to take his place.
I do not enjoy the scene because im thinking "oh im there to watch my girlfriend getting fucked", but more
"she is unaware of what is happening, another dude is touching her" that for me is enjoyable. so again, from her perspective.

Unfortunately most "dude" games are about a dude in a harem situation. (and that for me is boring, to watch a dude getting lucky, I actually dont care about other dudes, for me a dude game is to watch another dude getting lucky, so its kinda cuckold for me, its like watching a porn-movie and you watch the male pornstar, I actually watch porn because of the girls)
that is why "NTR" is mostly what I play, because many games include female perspective.

Your idea of NTR is more akin to cheating, and so I think we are talkng about different things. Cheating and NTR are different tags on f95

 

[fffffffffffk]

At least make these meme fetish threads in the offtopic section. It would save the mods several mouseclicks.

 

[baka]

well, I have been around a long time and I also enjoy anime/manga, have a huge collection of that.
and the games I play, most are NTR tagged. maybe in japan they have NTR together with cheating, but NTR is not just about cucking the male protagonist, that is why NTR is so hard to define so we all think and feel the same about it, its subjective. also, its about perspective. we can read the same novel but feel different about it. that is why its impossible to say that if you enjoy NTR you are a cuck, you can't know that since you are not that person and understand that person perspective. so trying to define NTR for everyone you need to be very open minded.

 

[danteworks]

well, I have been around a long time and I also enjoy anime/manga, have a huge collection of that.
and the games I play, most are NTR tagged. maybe in japan they have NTR together with cheating, but NTR is not just about cucking the male protagonist, that is why NTR is so hard to define so we all think and feel the same about it, its subjective. also, its about perspective. we can read the same novel but feel different about it. that is why its impossible to say that if you enjoy NTR you are a cuck, you can't know that since you are not that person and understand that person perspective. so trying to define NTR for everyone you need to be very open minded.

Im talking about NTR games here on F95, not in anime or manga. If it doesn't apply to you, that's okay too.

 

[baka]

that is also impossible, people will have the definition of NTR from outside F95 as well.
I think the word: cuckold would be better to use instead of NTR, this because cuckold is more specific, while NTR is a lot more.
but even so, a cuckold story, depending how focused it is of course, could be enjoyed by a non-cuck person, if it gives a lot of hot scenes from the girls perspective.
we have games, where u play the dude that is "outside" a room, we/he can not see anything, but we/he knows his loved one is fucking another dude.
that for me is primary focused on the dude, and to enjoy that you need to enjoy that feeling. and that for me is not something I like at all.
what I want is to be inside the room, and see what she is doing.
thats the problem with ntr/cuckold, are you the one that enjoy being inside or outside the room?

 

[crewfalcons]

I will try to build a cogent argument.

• A game tagged with 'NTR' on f95 is the game version of the cuckold fetish, where the player character is is cucked. It must be the player character.
• You are not strictly an NTR fan just because a game you play includes NTR. Similarly, you aren't a fan of BBC just because there is a black dick in the game by happenstance.
• However, if you make the declaration that you enjoy BBC games, are selective for BBC games, or are a fan of BBC games, you must like black penis in your games, and it is a draw for you. Otherwise, you would not say that you enjoyed BCC. Similarly, if you declare that you enjoy NTR games, NTR is the draw to the game.
• The only thing that NTR differs from non-NTR games is that it has a cuck fetish
• Therefore, by seeking out to play NTR games over non NTR games, or even having an affinity to NTR games, the player must be into the cuck fetish.

And well, that means you take sexual pleasure from having your love interest railed by another man.

I have had some people try to claim that NTR games is not just a cuck fetish, but about story, that they don't really insert themselves into the player character, and therefore are not being 'cucked'. I would then contend, however, that if this were true, they would not make the claim that they enjoy NTR games, as the defining feature of NTR is the cuck aspect, and they should then also enjoy games tagged with 'cheating.'

My viewpoint on this is clearly that I associate NTR with cuckoldry. However, I think that NTR lovers should be able to enjoy their NTR games, just as scat lovers can enjoy their scat games. I use scat as an example, because it's universally distasteful (perhaps even more than NTR).

So what do we think?

## My game (Depravity) does not include NTR - just wanted to make it very clear for my players (and future players too!) ##

Decent take and I agree with most of it though I think NTR and cuckoldry have a lot of nuances to it.

(Disclosure - I'm not into NTR nor am I an overt fan of sharing/swinging but I get the appeal to it.)

I think part of playing games depends on your POV you take in playing a game. What I mean about that is if you're coming at it from an invested first person POV you care more about the characters actions since its from a personal viewpoint. Actions and choices you take form a personal relevance and can be more impacting to you since you immerse yourself into the character. From there it's up to your own personal preferences. Do you have a cuck fetish? Do you enjoy the pain and suffering? Does it have to be about the pain? Maybe you are more of the voyeur type and that excites you? Maybe you don't connect with an LI in a game so their actions don't affect you personally? Some of it deals with masochism and sadism tendencies (doesn't have to but for some it does). If you're into personal degradation or humiliation by someone, a game that does that to a MC might be a reason you're attracted to it - hence why a game labeled NTR and has those things in them would be appealing. There's a whole host of reasons or situations or rationales that justify why someone can be "into" that type of game.

Coming at it from the third person perspective you can shelter yourself a bit from the personal feelings or actions of a MC. Maybe you feel more akin to another character in the game and don't identify with the MC (I know people of mixed races and friends who are black who do this with games involving a black character or anybody of color in the game that has a white or Asian protag - for them they have no connection to the white male MC and identify with others). Putting race aside - maybe you're someone of a vastly different age than the MC and that's a reason for your disassociation (there can be a whole host of reasons for the disassociation). You also can live out a little of your sadistic preferences seeing the suffering or anguish of a main character if that's your thing. That feeling of indifference of "welp, this guy's not me so I don't care what happens to them... I'm just here for the sexy action between characters" is a way some can justify it. I think disassociation and not projecting yourself onto a character plays a big role in it for those who play the games with NTR from this 3rd person POV who can also state that on a personal level they aren't into the idea of cuckoldry or being cucked.

That disassociation from a MC's actions because you don't personally feel you're the one involved in the act, but rather another person entirely that you're just watching and/or influencing, speaks more to how you as a player want to immerse yourself in a game. (There's been tons of research on 1st person POV/3rd person POV in game immersion studies -- here's but one:

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). A lot of male players who play female protag games can take this stance to a degree - the idea where "I'm just following around this person and influencing their actions based on my choices but at the end of the day it's not me personally but someone else entirely".

But again there's always nuances to it - you definitely can take a 3rd person POV and be into cuckoldry all the same (wherein you personally enjoy being cucked). I personally don't seek enjoyment in pain, humilation, cuckoldry, denigration of someone, etc (they can all be the same thing while also being completely different too) but I'm not going to judge someone or make some definitive statement on what's the best way to "get off" haha. People all have preferences, desires, and fetishes - I know what I like and what makes me happy. If something I don't like makes others happy, meh who am I to judge?

 

[maisbordeldemerde]

danteworks Not sure what your point is exactly? Trying to read between the lines, how would you possibly judge that someone enjoying ntr games is enclined to see his/her loved one banged by some random stranger irl? Replace ntr by incest in your OP, then you won't say the player ultimately wants to fuck his mom/sis etc. That's probably the most basic argument you'll read from ntr lovers but well it's also true

It's just about personal preference at this point, to me it's like trying to explain why someone prefers pink color over yellow or some shit like that. I don't even see the ntr fetish as deviant as scat tbh. If you're trying to do some rational judgement over a personal taste then it's pointless.

 

[Segnbora]

I'm one of those people who never immerses in a game (or a story, or a movie, or art of any kind except for music). I'm here for a good story, good gameplay, and good erotic scenes. Ideally more than one of those at the same time, in which pursuit I'm routinely disappointed. But I don't feel like what's happening on my screen is happening to me any more than I think I'm fucking Adriana Chechik. She's fucking someone else and I'm watching it. The same is true for an NPC in a game.

Now, if you want to make the argument that my interaction with either erotic games or porn means that I have a voyeur fetish, then I think you can support that based on the evidence, even though I've never thought of myself as having one. But I don't care about the MC/husband in Because I Love Her any more than I care about Manuel Ferrara, and so as long as the visual depiction of fucking is sufficiently interesting, I'm satisfied. And if the pictures and descriptions of someone other than the MC/husband fucking his wife Claire are better than the ones with her husband, I'm definitely going to make whatever choices I need to in order to see them. Do I care how the husband feels about it? Only in the sense that a well-written story is more engaging, not in the sense that he's real and I should feel some sort of guilt about making his equally nonexistent wife have sex with a pair of bartenders. Do I care that Adriana Chechik's character is married to someone else but fucking Manuel Ferrara in the video I'm watching? Of course not. Why should I? It's fiction produced for my erotic entertainment, just like most of the games here.

But as someone who would really, really hate NTR or cuckolding as a real life experience, here's why I like it in fiction (and I include games in that category): it's narratively fertile. There's a lot that can be done to fill a story with tension and uncertainty, with rich and complex characters, and with plausible motivations to act in previously incomprehensible or inappropriate ways. There are players who are engaged by it the way I just described and, in the specific realm of games, there are other types of players who enjoy the challenge it poses: trying to navigate the decision tree that keeps a particular NPC from having sex with someone else. Neither of those categories of players have any demonstrated interest in the NTR/cuckold fetish itself, only in the environment it establishes.

That most NTR/cuckold fiction, in whatever form, is badly plotted crap in which one or more characters are required to undergo lobotomies to make the story work isn't really applicable, because Sturgeon's Law.

 

[Flecc]

I think personal judgement based on a fetish is rather crass.i have played incest games but never for a moment have i thought about banging my mother or sister I like pregnancy games doesn't mean i want to get every female in the world pregnant (fuck that the child support would be intolerable) .I think most sensible adults realise it is just fiction and treat it as such .For sure some people have one kink others have another but ultimately it is just a game you can have a bit of fun and then turn it off and go back to RL

 

[thecardinal]

I'm just here before this goes to off-topic. Quit making NTR threads and arguing about it.

 

[anne O'nymous]

I have had some people try to claim that NTR games is not just a cuck fetish, but about story, that they don't really insert themselves into the player character, and therefore are not being 'cucked'. I would then contend, however, that if this were true, they would not make the claim that they enjoy NTR games, as the defining feature of NTR is the cuck aspect, and they should then also enjoy games tagged with 'cheating.'

And what if they are sadistic as hell, and like NTR games because they display the suffering life of some wretched guy ? Cheating games do not qualify for them, since they partly display the happy life of a woman/man who take what (s)he want.

Or, what if they are depressive as hell, and like NTR games, because they display the life of someone who is way more unlucky than them ? Once again, cheating games do not qualify, since they also display the life of a lucky woman/man who have many lovers.

Or, what if they effectively just like them for the story, because a good NTR game need a good writing an strong character building to carry the feelings ? Here again cheating games do not really qualify, because they are generally just cheap fuck fest.

Or, what if they are masochist, and like NTR games for their suffering and humiliation ? Again, cheating games do not qualify.


There's surely others exceptions to your generality, those are just the four that crossed my mind while fighting an insomnia.

 

[danteworks]

And what if they are sadistic as hell, and like NTR games because they display the suffering life of some wretched guy ? Cheating games do not qualify for them, since they partly display the happy life of a woman/man who take what (s)he want.

Or, what if they are depressive as hell, and like NTR games, because they display the life of someone who is way more unlucky than them ? Once again, cheating games do not qualify, since they also display the life of a lucky woman/man who have many lovers.

Or, what if they effectively just like them for the story, because a good NTR game need a good writing an strong character building to carry the feelings ? Here again cheating games do not really qualify, because they are generally just cheap fuck fest.

Or, what if they are masochist, and like NTR games for their suffering and humiliation ? Again, cheating games do not qualify.


There's surely others exceptions to your generality, those are just the four that crossed my mind while fighting an insomnia.

Humiliation and jealousy are probably part of ntr appeal, of having your love interest taken by someone else. See BBC example for the others

 

[danteworks]

I would be careful re: some others who write it off as fiction. Would you write off scat as fiction? In the real world there are obstacles to playing out this fantasy and yet out of all the fictions, ntr players pick ntr. Why is this?

 

[maisbordeldemerde]

I would be careful re: some others who write it off as fiction. Would you write off scat as fiction? In the real world there are obstacles to playing out this fantasy and yet out of all the fictions, ntr players pick ntr. Why is this?

 

[Thickgravy49]

Oh great!
Just what everyone on here really needs!
Another thread about that NTR thing!

This has been absolutely done to death on here more times than I care to remember.
The whole argument is just utterly boring as fuck, imo.
Yawn....Zzzzzzz.....

 

[danteworks]

Oh great!
Just what everyone on here really needs!
Another thread about that NTR thing!

This has been absolutely done to death on here more times than I care to remember.
The whole argument is just utterly boring as fuck, imo.
Yawn....Zzzzzzz.....

Thanks for the contribution

 

[Segnbora]

Yes, I'd write off scat as fiction. It's a hard limit for me in real life and in games or stories or whatever else, but it's still fiction. To be honest, the distressing ubiquity of rape in erotic games is a much bigger struggle for me than whether or not a game has one of the more extreme fetishes.