VN Ren'Py Chasing Sunsets [v0.9a] [Stone Fox Studios]

[1337Bob]

Jaye risks a lot and in fact depending on how MC/we react she wins a lot or loses almost everything

Yes and no. It's only risky in a literal sense that Jaye may not get what she wants.

But an other perspective is that MC's reaction will tell her everything she needs to know. If MC "defends" her and places his part as white knight, then she knows the spark is still there. If MC leaves, then she (to quote the game) "begins to believe the brother she once loved is gone". In this sense there is no risk - either the MC still loves her or he doesn't.

Perhaps you can maybe fault her for her black and white thinking, that maybe she can take it slow and get MC to warm up to her first. But it the classic love story sense, there is no warming up. The love is either there or isn't. (True) love, in the dramatic sense, is sudden, uncontrollable and captivating. In this sense, MC needing warming up to Jaye again would be the functionally equivalent of him not loving her at all.

 

[felicemastronzo]

Yes and no. It's only risky in a literal sense that Jaye may not get what she wants.

But an other perspective is that MC's reaction will tell her everything she needs to know. If MC "defends" her and places his part as white knight, then she knows the spark is still there. If MC leaves, then she (to quote the game) "begins to believe the brother she once loved is gone". In this sense there is no risk - either the MC still loves her or he doesn't.

Perhaps you can maybe fault her for her black and white thinking, that maybe she can take it slow and get MC to warm up to her first. But it the classic love story sense, there is no warming up. The love is either there or isn't. (True) love, in the dramatic sense, is sudden, uncontrollable and captivating. In this sense, MC needing warming up to Jaye again would be the functionally equivalent of him not loving her at all.

she takes a huge risk

They are, or at least they feel like they are, brother and sister, so they have to overcome a big taboo, practically since they were children they have had a very hindered and insincere relationship, they haven't spoken to each other for years, she has treated him quite badly until a few days before, yet she expects a proof of great love, a love without hesitation, hesitation that she, rightly, has.

If he defends her, if they talk afterwards, if she spies on his diary, they still haven't solved all the problems between them, but she leaves with an ALL IN

 

[1337Bob]

she takes a huge risk

They are, or at least they feel like they are, brother and sister, so they have to overcome a big taboo, practically since they were children they have had a very hindered and insincere relationship, they haven't spoken to each other for years, she has treated him quite badly until a few days before, yet she expects a proof of great love, a love without hesitation, hesitation that she, rightly, has.

If he defends her, if they talk afterwards, if she spies on his diary, they still haven't solved all the problems between them, but she leaves with an ALL IN

I don't mean to say that her plan was going to solve all the problems. Obviously not, they still have huge issues to resolve. But the confrontation with Christian is a marker, or a litmus test. If MC defends her, and he responds positively to her embrace, she knows the spark is still there and they can build upon it. That's what she's trying to find out. If the spark is there. There's still lots of work to be done after that point.

Is it a bit melodramatic and extreme? Maybe, though like I said in a previous post, I'm a bit of a romantic at heart and in many ways this is kind of dramatic action at the heart of romance.

 

[Canto Forte]

Romantic/Dramatic like the kings princess saying: ”Bring me joan the baptist head on a platter”

I don't mean to say that her plan was going to solve all the problems. Obviously not, they still have huge issues to resolve. But the confrontation with Christian is a marker, or a litmus test. If MC defends her, and he responds positively to her embrace, she knows the spark is still there and they can build upon it. That's what she's trying to find out. If the spark is there. There's still lots of work to be done after that point.

Is it a bit melodramatic and extreme? Maybe, though like I said in a previous post, I'm a bit of a romantic at heart and in many ways this is kind of dramatic action at the heart of romance.

Well, guess what, in this VN, MC the king went off the deep end,
beat up joan, hurled him outta Jayes kingdom,
then went all the way away to hunt zeebras out in guerilla infested territories.

 

[felicemastronzo]

I don't mean to say that her plan was going to solve all the problems. Obviously not, they still have huge issues to resolve. But the confrontation with Christian is a marker, or a litmus test. If MC defends her, and he responds positively to her embrace, she knows the spark is still there and they can build upon it. That's what she's trying to find out. If the spark is there. There's still lots of work to be done after that point.

Is it a bit melodramatic and extreme? Maybe, though like I said in a previous post, I'm a bit of a romantic at heart and in many ways this is kind of dramatic action at the heart of romance.

they are not two ex-boyfriends, there is no spark to see if it is still alive, there is a relationship to be completely rebuilt, not only as lovers but also as brother and sister or as business partners. they have never spoken to each other sincerely, never, at most they have shouted at each other about everything...

at the funeral Jaye doubts MC just as a brother, and it didn't happen years before, but a few days. since then the only non-aggressive communication they've had is by message. it's no accident they travel separately.

Then I agree about the dramatic and romantic effect. as players we know Jaye is her main LI, but that can't be the key to what's happening

 

[v1900]

I don't mean to say that her plan was going to solve all the problems. Obviously not, they still have huge issues to resolve. But the confrontation with Christian is a marker, or a litmus test. If MC defends her, and he responds positively to her embrace, she knows the spark is still there and they can build upon it. That's what she's trying to find out. If the spark is there. There's still lots of work to be done after that point.

Is it a bit melodramatic and extreme? Maybe, though like I said in a previous post, I'm a bit of a romantic at heart and in many ways this is kind of dramatic action at the heart of romance.

I am with felicemastronzo on this one. It came across as a manipulative move. Not to cast a negative shadow on the character just stating a fact, manipulation is a common interaction from children to adults it can be seemingly innocuous or dastardly. In real life people that show respect towards others and in turn expect respect from others tend to dislike when people make "little tests" as in this situation.

In real life I have let relations get cold because of this sort of little test when someone causes trouble in front of you expecting to be bailed out. Not because I do not like to help but because I do not like to be forced (manipulated) to act when there was no need to do so. Make no mistake Jaye was going to tell rape boy she did not know where George was and then you can see the cogs turning inside her brain and come up with her little test.

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So it is a big risk to make that move.

 

[1337Bob]

they are not two ex-boyfriends, there is no spark to see if it is still alive, there is a relationship to be completely rebuilt, not only as lovers but also as brother and sister or as business partners. they have never spoken to each other sincerely, never, at most they have shouted at each other about everything...

at the funeral Jaye doubts MC just as a brother, and it didn't happen years before, but a few days. since then the only non-aggressive communication they've had is by message. it's no accident they travel separately.

Then I agree about the dramatic and romantic effect. as players we know Jaye is her main LI, but that can't be the key to what's happening

I would say that the hostility between them isn't "genuine" hostility, but rather just both of them being hurt due to the unrequited love both of them have (assuming you're going down this path, which goes back to my earlier point about players creating the narrative). People who love each other hurt each other all the time for a whole range of reasons.

I am with felicemastronzo on this one. It came across as a manipulative move. Not to cast a negative shadow on the character just stating a fact, manipulation is a common interaction from children to adults it can be seemingly innocuous or dastardly. In real life people that show respect towards others and in turn expect respect from others tend to dislike when people make "little tests" as in this situation.

In real life I have let relations get cold because of this sort of little test when someone causes trouble in front of you expecting to be bailed out. Not because I do not like to help but because I do not like to be forced (manipulated) to act when there was no need to do so. Make no mistake Jaye was going to tell rape boy she did not know where George was and then you can see the cogs turning inside her brain and come up with her little test.

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So it is a big risk to make that move.

I think seeing it as manipulative is probably the least charitable interpretation of Jaye's actions. It's not to say it's an invalid interpretation. Again to hearken back to my earlier point, the player is actively shaping the narrative, and you can make decisions that essentially reinforce this interpretation.

A more charitable interpretation is that Jaye was blindsided by Christian in the first place, she saw it as genuine opportunity to reconnect with MC by invoking and reframing the past, while at the same time getting some more cathartic revenge on Christian for both herself and MC.

 

[v1900]

I would say that the hostility between them isn't "genuine" hostility, but rather just both of them being hurt due to the unrequited love both of them have (assuming you're going down this path, which goes back to my earlier point about players creating the narrative). People who love each other hurt each other all the time for a whole range of reasons.



I think seeing it as manipulative is probably the least charitable interpretation of Jaye's actions. It's not to say it's an invalid interpretation. Again to hearken back to my earlier point, the player is actively shaping the narrative, and you can make decisions that essentially reinforce this interpretation.

A more charitable interpretation is that Jaye was blindsided by Christian in the first place, she saw it as genuine opportunity to reconnect with MC by invoking and reframing the past, while at the same time getting some more cathartic revenge on Christian for both herself and MC.

I made the use of the word without any negative connotation. That is why I argued it can be something innocuous, little children use manipulation a lot and we think it is funny or cute.

The thing is that the MC had nothing to gain from this, he already had his revenge, this was all Jaye's moment and she used the MC. I think this is part of the argument that felicemastronzo made.

 

[UncleFredo]

I have never doubted Jaye's feelings for MC, but it is evident from the scene how she is amused, pleased with her idea while MC is very distressed and disoriented

Jaye doesn't know if Mc will defend her, she hopes so. in fact MC may not do it and among other things the best choice is just not to do it and let her do it...

as soon as she gets off the helicopter she "enjoys" the scene and the shock on MC, that's human, but it's not pleasant for MC

we can put it any way we want, but to be put to the test, without having particular faults to be forgiven, is never pleasant, and is a risky first move in rebuilding a relationship.

Jaye risks a lot and in fact depending on how MC/we react she wins a lot or loses almost everything

My point is very simple. Despite what she told her brother, her motivation was NOT to test him. It was to seek safety and she either knew or deeply believed that he'd protect her no matter what. If she could reach him, he'd keep her safe.

So all the discontent about "testing" is misplaced, because we, the reader/player, have been given insight into her inner thoughts, and her motivation was not to test her brother but to seek his protection and support.

Perhaps after the fact she saw it as passing a set of tests. Her judgement to seek his protection and his absolute willingness to provide it. But for her, and him when he learns the full truth, that's nothing more than hindsight.

 

[Retrofire]

My point is very simple. Despite what she told her brother, her motivation was NOT to test him. It was to seek safety and she either knew or deeply believed that he'd protect her no matter what. If she could reach him, he'd keep her safe.

So all the discontent about "testing" is misplaced, because we, the reader/player, have been given insight into her inner thoughts, and her motivation was not to test her brother but to seek his protection and support.

Perhaps after the fact she saw it as passing a set of tests. Her judgement to seek his protection and his absolute willingness to provide it. But for her, and him when he learns the full truth, that's nothing more than hindsight.

Some big brain energy right here. Add that to the fact that Jaye outright tells MC "I can take care of myself, but something about that guy terrifies me." Also, suppressing her fight or flight response at the airport. If anything, my takeaway on the yacht when MC asks her what's going on is that she's grateful for a shot at a do-over. Based on her inner monologue on the helicopter AND during the hug (if you reciprocate it) she reinforces the idea that it was a do-over for HER, not for him.

 

[MyUserName1234]

My point is very simple. Despite what she told her brother, her motivation was NOT to test him. It was to seek safety and she either knew or deeply believed that he'd protect her no matter what. If she could reach him, he'd keep her safe.

So all the discontent about "testing" is misplaced, because we, the reader/player, have been given insight into her inner thoughts, and her motivation was not to test her brother but to seek his protection and support.

Perhaps after the fact she saw it as passing a set of tests. Her judgement to seek his protection and his absolute willingness to provide it. But for her, and him when he learns the full truth, that's nothing more than hindsight.

What inner thoughts are you relying on to come to that conclusion?

 

[Retrofire]

What inner thoughts are you relying on to come to that conclusion?

These two for starters...

 

[UncleFredo]

What inner thoughts are you relying on to come to that conclusion?

So understand that I did a full replay seeking insight into clues, context, and subtle statements to understand the motivations of the MC and Jaye. Unsurprisingly I found I'd missed a lot. No surprise, it's an emotionally charged set of interactions. Who wouldn't miss some subtle nuances or swiftly retracted comments? If you replay from the ambush in the airport to the conversation in the MC's bedroom it's all there. Spread across a half dozen to a dozen screens, but it's there.

 

[DavDR]

I have never doubted Jaye's feelings for MC, but it is evident from the scene how she is amused, pleased with her idea while MC is very distressed and disoriented

Jaye doesn't know if Mc will defend her, she hopes so. in fact MC may not do it and among other things the best choice is just not to do it and let her do it...

as soon as she gets off the helicopter she "enjoys" the scene and the shock on MC, that's human, but it's not pleasant for MC

we can put it any way we want, but to be put to the test, without having particular faults to be forgiven, is never pleasant, and is a risky first move in rebuilding a relationship.

Jaye risks a lot and in fact depending on how MC/we react she wins a lot or loses almost everything

No, the MC does have faults to be forgiven, as Jaye does herself. Until the conversation they both have reason's to doubt the other, it's only after a level of trust has been re-established that many of the issues brought up by several posters , can be addressed.

 

[DavDR]

Some big brain energy right here. Add that to the fact that Jaye outright tells MC "I can take care of myself, but something about that guy terrifies me." Also, suppressing her fight or flight response at the airport. If anything, my takeaway on the yacht when MC asks her what's going on is that she's grateful for a shot at a do-over. Based on her inner monologue on the helicopter AND during the hug (if you reciprocate it) she reinforces the idea that it was a do-over for HER, not for him.

Big brain and big heart. I've discovered something else to love about this game. It's generated some of the best conversations I ever had on this forum.

 

[v1900]

Some big brain energy right here. Add that to the fact that Jaye outright tells MC "I can take care of myself, but something about that guy terrifies me." Also, suppressing her fight or flight response at the airport. If anything, my takeaway on the yacht when MC asks her what's going on is that she's grateful for a shot at a do-over. Based on her inner monologue on the helicopter AND during the hug (if you reciprocate it) she reinforces the idea that it was a do-over for HER, not for him.

Mate I will suggest you play again the airport scene and you will see that the fight or flight statement (I know it is made by the narrator) is incongruous with Jaye being scared of rape boy. It appears to be in reference of the legal situation based on the chronology of the dialogue it is also stated by the narrator before that "then inspiration strikes" (so she appears to be cool-headed) and the whole scene Jaye has a grin on her face. Then at the yacht, deny beating rape boy and you will see that Jaye is the least scared of him (she herself beats him easily). It is more like what 1337Bob said, it appears to be some test to validate her own logic.

 

[Retrofire]

Big brain and big heart. I've discovered something else to love about this game. It's generated some of the best conversations I ever had on this forum.

Oh man, but also some of the worst. This game is like a twisted Rorshach Test for sociopathy.

 

[DavDR]

Oh man, but also some of the worst. This game is like a twisted Rorshach Test for sociopathy.

Oh I couldn't disagree more. While I don't possess the eloquence of some of the posters here, I'll try to express the best I can.

I feel like this game is about Love.

It's about the difficulty, the pain and the misunderstanding that is love.

It's also about the love that is friendship and family. How , despite being the most precious things in life, can also hurt you more than anything.

It's about the love that is growth, and the growth that comes from learning to love.

 

[felicemastronzo]

No, the MC does have faults to be forgiven, as Jaye does herself. Until the conversation they both have reason's to doubt the other, it's only after a level of trust has been re-established that many of the issues brought up by several posters , can be addressed.

sorry I misspoke, I said that Mc has no particular faults to be forgiven, but that of course also applies to Jaye (the blocked mobile phone issue is an accident). perhaps misunderstandings rather than faults should be mentioned.

neither of the 2 has to apologise to the other (although in a very tense situation apologising helps a lot) for anything. they hurt each other but without meaning to.

if the ship scene had happened after a real talk, even on the phone, there would have been no problem for me.

I don't doubt Jaye's motives, but she put Mc under a lot of pressure, in an already stressful situation. it's a situation where it becomes easy to do the wrong thing (even beating Christian to death for example).

 

[Terminator_26F]

I am pleased to note that this new chapter has unleashed a flurry of high-quality interpretations, analyzes, speculations, projections of history, proof that players are engaged in the game with passion. I enjoy reading the posts that are sometimes favorable to Jaye, sometimes not or which scratch the MC, etc. I agree with some of them, I disagree with others, but the whole is interesting and gives food for thought. I hesitate to put my "grain de sel" because I would have to react to each of the posts. For the moment, I let settle and I continue to follow the thread ...