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v1900

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Apr 21, 2020
1,076
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It's pretty funny how the game tells you that "Conversation Hubs are designed to generally reward emotional intelligence", and then it immediately rewards you for impulsively committing a felony.

I don't trust George enough to break the law for him at a moments notice. He claims that Christian won't be able to press charges because he doesn't know which country the MV Sunset is registered to, but I would assume that his uncle's law firm could be able to look that up. And that would only give them more leverage to use as they try to destroy our company.

Sadly, I can't voice any of these concerns. The closest I can get is to say "Help him off yourself. He's not my problem." Which makes it seem like I'm not interested in any of the ongoings at all. I am interested, but I would rather be a bit more methodical about it. George then condescendingly chastises us by saying that we never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity, and we aren't allowed to retort at all. It appears that being an obedient attack dog is a sign of "emotional intelligence" and while the better part of valour is not.

I replayed the scene later to beat the guy up, since he really does deserve as many beatings as he can get, and then I got three choices on how to respond to Jaye. Two were to say that we didn't leave because of her behaviour, so I took the only option where he doesn't say that. It didn't matter though, because of the godawful flashback scene with Tara. But that's a whole other kettle of fish to fry.


It seems that the way to be rewarded for your "emotional intelligence" is to do everything Jaye wants, take all the blame, carefully tip toe around her feelings, and never stand up for yourself. That's not healthy, especially when dealing with someone like Jaye.

Jaye hasn't really changed much at all. She is still a drama queen. She is still expecting her brother to obey her unspoken whims. She is still a violent and impulsive person. She is still a massive hypocrite. She is still obnoxiously annoying and extremely creepy.

I didn't like the big talk with Jaye, because we weren't allowed to confront her about her behaivor. The game also seems to be trying to retcon some things to make Jaye seem less awful, but it just makes the main character look like an even bigger idiot instead.

One of the questions Jaye asks is "Why did you ghost me when we were little?", which is odd because she already knows that. It's the whole reason why she was angry with him, and why she refused to ever walk with him to school again. This was explicitly explained to us during the conversation at the bar. She was mad that he made a choice that affected her without asking her about it first.

Jaye also reveals that she became popular for punching Jenna in the throat. Apparently, news of this big event never made it's way around to him, which is difficult to believe. It also further establishes Jaye as a violent and unstable person, which is very concerning considering her obsession with us.

Jaye acts more like a stalker than someone who is actually in love, as shown at the end of the update where she sneaks into the MC's room to read his journal and masturbate on his pillow. Fuck that shit. I was worried when Fiona did something similar, but at least she had the decency to be honest and forthright about it. Can't say the same for Jaye.
Welcome to Piracy at Sea 101, I will be your tutor for the day.
Lets assume that all the involved parties are US citizens and you would like to sue in a US court. You are shit out of luck because the vessel departed from Tonalu (not a US port) towards international waters (not US territory), for the US to have jurisdiction according to "The United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea" the vessel has to:
  1. Be registered in the US.
  2. Be departing or arriving to a US port.
    • Note: Some believe that them being US citizens gives the right to the US to prosecute in US courts but that is more of a cordiality extended to the US by some states.
So when George tells rape boy that he should see the flag of the vessel, lets assume it is registered in the Liberian Registry (second largest in the world), rape boy knows two things:
  1. He will have to sue in Liberia.
  2. Liberia will not move a finger.
Under "The United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea" for them to have committed a crime there has to be grave damage or rape, so when they threw him the life preserver they can argue that it was all they could do to help him and that is dandy. So imagine you are trying to get that case inside a Liberian court if the maritime registry generates 25% of the country's revenue and they can argue that rape boy was unharmed.
giphy (4).gif
 
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Terminator_26F

Active Member
Apr 1, 2019
518
994
There's a lot of nuance on how the siblings grew apart yet stayed in each others' orbit after the Jenna incident.

-MC specifically tells Walter that Jaye didn't take it well that he had tried to decide what was best for her after overhearing Jenna. To me, this implies the parents DID talk to Jaye and she was pissed that MC made the choice for both of them.

-It seems to me that pride got in the way of both of their feelings because MC also tells Walter about their continued ritual of attending each others' sports and exchanging birthday gifts. To me, anyway, that implies the love never faded, it was just expressed from a safe distance.

-While not canon in-game yet, the devs have said there will be other views into childhood events that flesh out their hot/cold connection in more detail as the story continues.

-I didn't see bringing Christian to the yacht as a test, even though Jaye admits to being curious about how she and MC would handle it. She sends a mental apology to her dad in the helicopter saying "I didn't know what else to do..." I took it as more of "This confrontation is going to happen anyway, but this way we kill all the birds with one stone."

-Dev disagreed in Discord when somebody pointed out that Tara could have put the whole thing to rest on Graduation Night by telling MC that Jaye had feelings for him after the party with this statement:

I remember a lot of people had bad feels at the end of Summer with Mia, where the MC spends the entire game being a selfish, rapey douche and then gets all choked up when his sister leaves at the end. What this really did was set the stage for Summer with Mia 2, now that time has passed, and hopefully the MC has grown into a guy deserving of Mia. Just saying that I see parallels here.

-Another interesting tidbit from Saturday's livestream was that MC wasn't living the high-life on the road. Not sure if he was "cut off" from the family money or too proud to ask for it. He had a relatively modest trust fund set aside for his tuition and books, but he and David apparently did odd jobs as they traveled to support themselves. More details on that will apparently be revealed in future talks with Jaye and George, but there was a reason MC took the instructor work at the ski lodge and felt motivated to attend a "free" concert in Mongolia.
I can only agree with your thoughts. Jaye does not tolerate others (including the MC) getting involved in her business, and she says this violently to the MC on graduation night. I also approve your parallel with Summer with Mia, where the MC behaves like a dirty jerk, using his sister as a cock garage with no more feelings, only realizing it too late. Also agree on the fact that the trips of the MC (and David) were not organized by Club Med' and were not easy (David gives up his life and the MC becomes another man thanks to the teachings of his friend).
 
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UncleFredo

Well-Known Member
Aug 29, 2020
1,940
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Fair points. I would offer only this in counterpoint: Even as children living at home, the value of money was ingrained into the children. James makes MC mow the lawn of their modest home in spite of the parents having enough money to both live in a much larger/more exclusive home and afford a groundskeeper.

Tuition for Stanford (where MC was apparently going) for a four year degree is just under $300,000 according to Google. It seems credible to me that somebody with both an appreciation of the value of money and an eye for budget travel could make that stretch some distance, though you're 100% correct that a K2 climb would be very costly.
Their parents are multi-billonaires it is a fair assumption that his trust fund was at least seven figures, probably far more. His day to day frugality and his interest in being a ski/snowboard instructor seems more to do with how he was raised to value his time. So it makes sense he'd spend the money on K2 while also working various jobs as he and David traveled.
 
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felicemastronzo

Devoted Member
May 17, 2020
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Fair points. I would offer only this in counterpoint: Even as children living at home, the value of money was ingrained into the children. James makes MC mow the lawn of their modest home in spite of the parents having enough money to both live in a much larger/more exclusive home and afford a groundskeeper.

Tuition for Stanford (where MC was apparently going) for a four year degree is just under $300,000 according to Google. It seems credible to me that somebody with both an appreciation of the value of money and an eye for budget travel could make that stretch some distance, though you're 100% correct that a K2 climb would be very costly.
I'm not saying that he squandered it, but he was essentially a tourist, at least that's what we're shown in the flashbacks, then whether he spent a lot, a little or only David's money doesn't change much in my opinion.

the point is that he escapes from a situation that has become unbearable, and with a difficult way out, and distracts himself by travelling around the world. there are worse ends...

but then why would it be a problem that mc spent a lot of money? he is very rich, it is not like he went on a journey of pain and repentance. having to choose between a safe hotel and a bad dump why would he choose the latter?
I can only agree with your thoughts. Jaye does not tolerate others (including the MC) getting involved in her business, and she says this violently to the MC on graduation night. I also approve your parallel with Summer with Mia, where the MC behaves like a dirty jerk, using his sister as a cock garage with no more feelings, only realizing it too late. Also agree on the fact that the trips of the MC (and David) were not organized by Club Med' and were not easy (David gives up his life and the MC becomes another man thanks to the teachings of his friend).
the one in tunisia was an accident. i really don't think david wanted to put mc in danger, and that he took him to a place he knew was dangerous. they were in the wrong place at the wrong time, it happens to many tourists, even club med ones...
 

Deleted member 2808342

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Sep 4, 2020
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Welcome to Piracy at Sea 101, I will be your tutor for the day.
Lets assume that all the involved parties are US citizens and you would like to sue in a US court. You are shit out of luck because the vessel departed from Tonalu (not a US port) towards international waters (not US territory), for the US to have jurisdiction according to "The United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea" the vessel has to:
  1. Be registered in the US.
  2. Be departing or arriving to a US port.
    • Note: Some believe that them being US citizens gives the right to the US to prosecute in US courts but that is more of a cordiality extended to the US by some states.
So when George tells rape boy that he should see the flag of the vessel, lets assume it is registered in the Liberian Registry (second largest in the world), rape boy knows two things:
  1. He will have to sue in Liberia.
  2. Liberia will not move a finger.
Under "The United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea" for them to have committed a crime there has to be grave damage or rape, so when they threw him the life preserver they can argue that it was all they could do to help him and that is dandy. So imagine you are trying to get that case inside a Liberian court if the maritime registry generates 25% of the countries revenue and they can argue that rape boy was unharmed.
View attachment 1210751
In fairness, when I was writing this, my research began with a , which subsequently led me to many of the (correct) points you make here.

That said, there will be subjects ahead where my own lay research won't stand up to cross-examination from experts with education deep in certain types of law, technologies, and sciences. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
 
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Terminator_26F

Active Member
Apr 1, 2019
518
994
the one in tunisia was an accident. i really don't think david wanted to put mc in danger, and that he took him to a place he knew was dangerous. they were in the wrong place at the wrong time, it happens to many tourists, even club med ones...
After 15 years in the French Foreign Legion and a lot of expeditions in the Middle East to Afghanistan and beyond , it wouldn't occur to me to go touring in these countries, including the Maghreb (I was born in Algeria). I've always been impressed by the unconsciousness of assholes that we had to go and rescue, sometimes at a heavy price, once they got up to their necks in shit. You should never tempt the Devil (or Daesh) !
 

Terminator_26F

Active Member
Apr 1, 2019
518
994
I complete my previous post. David is a former Israeli Special Forces. His training and preparation for combat couldn't be different from mine. He must have thought that this preparation would allow him to face and protect the MC (which he did and it cost him his life). But faced with two armed attackers, distant from each other, without weapon and anxious to protect the MC above all, was a tactically very complicated challenge. Tunisia is still in the sphere of action of the Libyan Islamist terrorist groups. But here we are deviating from the story of the MC and Jaye. The DEVs have located and described the action well. Poor David!
 

DavDR

Engaged Member
Oct 14, 2020
2,021
3,303
In fairness, when I was writing this, my research began with a , which subsequently led me to many of the (correct) points you make here.

That said, there will be subjects ahead where my own lay research won't stand up to cross-examination from experts with education deep in certain types of law, technologies, and sciences. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
As long as there are no complete howlers, like fantasy student loans, I think a writer can be forgiven for not being expert in all things. I haven't seen anything in the game that I wouldn't consider to be plausible.
 

DavDR

Engaged Member
Oct 14, 2020
2,021
3,303
I complete my previous post. David is a former Israeli Special Forces. His training and preparation for combat couldn't be different from mine. He must have thought that this preparation would allow him to face and protect the MC (which he did and it cost him his life). But faced with two armed attackers, distant from each other, without weapon and anxious to protect the MC above all, was a tactically very complicated challenge. Tunisia is still in the sphere of action of the Libyan Islamist terrorist groups. But here we are deviating from the story of the MC and Jaye. The DEVs have located and described the action well. Poor David!
I'm not sure of the timeline the game is set in but it was my impression (and I could be wrong, I've only done one playthru at this point) that David and Alex got caught flatfooted by a rapidly deteriorating situation.
 

Sortino

Newbie
Dec 4, 2017
79
42
Good game and models are pretty hot no doubt about that. But a lot of scenes are so damn long. I think this game is like a movie. I think scenes needs to be a little more short and unfortunately sex scenes are not animated.
 

Cabin Fever

Engaged Member
Nov 23, 2018
3,347
5,452
I'm not sure of the timeline the game is set in but it was my impression (and I could be wrong, I've only done one playthru at this point) that David and Alex got caught flatfooted by a rapidly deteriorating situation.
I think the point was that a seasoned ISF veteran like David should know better than to go touring with the MC to a highly unstable place where the situation could rapidly deteriorate.
 

Terminator_26F

Active Member
Apr 1, 2019
518
994
I'm not sure of the timeline the game is set in but it was my impression (and I could be wrong, I've only done one playthru at this point) that David and Alex got caught flatfooted by a rapidly deteriorating situation.
Indeed, that may be the case. But many attacks and hostage-taking are actions of opportunity. They are unpredictable, fast and brutal. Nothing distinguishes a terrorist (or a scoundrel) from any guy. The environment seems calm and in a few seconds, everything changes. In "at risk" countries, tourists (or, like MC and David, unrepentant globetrotters) are like sheep facing tigers.

I guess the DEVs planned David's death with honor and sacrifice to toughen up the MC and put him in a man's shoes for good. The MC witnesses the death of someone dear to him (which he did not experience for his parents) and attends the funeral in Israel with David's family. Long and painful trial for the MC.
 
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DavDR

Engaged Member
Oct 14, 2020
2,021
3,303
Indeed, that may be the case. But many attacks and hostage-taking are actions of opportunity. They are unpredictable, fast and brutal. Nothing distinguishes a terrorist (or a scoundrel) from any guy. The environment seems calm and in a few seconds, everything changes. In "at risk" countries, tourists (or, like MC and David, unrepentant globetrotters) are like sheep facing tigers.

I guess the DEVs planned David's death with honor and sacrifice to toughen up the MC and put him in a man's shoes for good. The MC witnesses the death of someone dear to him (which he did not experience for his parents) and attends the funeral in Israel with David's family. Long and painful trial for the MC.
I'm not really that up to date on the history of the region, and Tunisia in particular. I remember some unrest during 'the awakening' but was under the impression that things didn't start to fall apart until after the destabilization of neighboring Libya. With Alex and David living on the road like they are it's sometimes hard to keep up to date, so they could have traveled there not realizing that things were beginning to come unglued.

I do agree with you about the narrative purpose of the incident, and the details of the situation in Tunisia are probably not that important, but I do like getting into the details. The way I saw it is that David's luck ran out.
 

1337Bob

Member
Jan 31, 2018
239
1,114
Honestly, I don't understand why some people so strongly dislike Jaye. Her actions and behaviour are pretty understandable in context. She's not perfect, but that's kind of the point. The characters are meant to be real, complex and messy and so far I think the story has delivered on it. Perhaps it's some holdover from earlier chapters where people assumed the worst and became entrenched, I don't know.

To go on aside, I think at least part of the issue is the unique, interactive nature of narratives in visual novels, or video games more generally. Because players play an active role in constructing the narrative, they can therefore increasing interpret the narrative into how they want to play.

To use an video game example, consider Yennefer vs Triss in the Witcher 3. A lot of players already have some preconceptions on who they prefer, either from the books, previous games, or even just first appearances in the game itself. When it comes to make decisions in the game, you can reinforce that preconception and shape the narrative. If you believe Yennefer is Geralt's only and true love, then you're going to pick all the positive dialogue with Yennefer and be standoffish with Triss. Geralt's positive response to Yennefer confirms the narrative that Geralt still loves Yen. Conversely, if you think Geralt has move pass Yennefer and loves Triss, you're going to pick all the dialogue where Geralt gets annoyed at Yennefer. Therefore Geralt's negative response confirms the narrative that Geralt has gotten sick of Yennefer's cold and invasive personality.

To bring it back to Chasing Sunsets, I think a similar effect has occurred with Jaye. The confrontation with Christian on the yacht is probably the best example. If you dislike Jaye, then you probably think Jaye is vindictive and petty, or was trying to spite MC by bring Christian on the yacht. Therefore you would pick the "not getting involved in this option". This option seemingly confirms that narrative that Jaye is being spiteful, as MC walks away in disgust.

Conversely, if you like Jaye, then you probably think that Jaye was attempting to use Christian as an "ice-breaker" so to speak. Getting MC to "defend" Jaye again as a means to remind each other of their bond and potentially to renew it. If you pick any of the three "good" options, the narrative seemingly confirms this too, as Jaye and MC hug and embrace after it - Jaye's plan worked.

You can apply this to other decisions too, including following response to the hug. What ends up happening is that different players are experiencing different narratives - the Jaye in one player's narrative is a different Jaye to another player's narrative.

Though I don't think this is the only reason why people might dislike Jaye, I think it's a contributing factor. As for Jaye's other specific actions:

Reading her brother's journal is super understandable. Yes it's an invasion of privacy and hypocrtical, but honestly, can you blame her? She's just been reunited for her estranged and beloved brother, who has done some crazy stuff while gone, and only left because of huge miscommunication. Wouldn't you be tempted to know what they were thinking at the time?

For the general miscommunication and standoffishness when they were teens, I really envy you people whose experiences with teenage romance were only positive and problem-free. Teenage love is extremely messy and prone to big errors, let alone the familial circumstance Jaye and MC are in. I find the love between Jaye and MC extremely believable and sympathetic, and why I find the game so far compelling.

I can't remember what other major complaints about Jaye there are.
 
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felicemastronzo

Devoted Member
May 17, 2020
11,686
22,576
Honestly, I don't understand why some people so strongly dislike Jaye. Her actions and behaviour are pretty understandable in context. She's not perfect, but that's kind of the point. The characters are meant to be real, complex and messy and so far I think the story has delivered on it. Perhaps it's some holdover from earlier chapters where people assumed the worst and became entrenched, I don't know.

To go on aside, I think at least part of the issue is the unique, interactive nature of narratives in visual novels, or video games more generally. Because players play an active role in constructing the narrative, they can therefore increasing interpret the narrative into how they want to play.

To use an video game example, consider Yennefer vs Triss in the Witcher 3. A lot of players already have some preconceptions on who they prefer, either from the books, previous games, or even just first appearances in the game itself. When it comes to make decisions in the game, you can reinforce that preconception and shape the narrative. If you believe Yennefer is Geralt's only and true love, then you're going to pick all the positive dialogue with Yennefer and be standoffish with Triss. Geralt's positive response to Yennefer confirms the narrative that Geralt still loves Yen. Conversely, if you think Geralt has move pass Yennefer and loves Triss, you're going to pick all the dialogue where Geralt gets annoyed at Yennefer. Therefore Geralt's negative response confirms the narrative that Geralt has gotten sick of Yennefer's cold and invasive personality.

To bring it back to Chasing Sunsets, I think a similar effect has occurred with Jaye. The confrontation with Christian on the yacht is probably the best example. If you dislike Jaye, then you probably think Jaye is vindictive and petty, or was trying to spite MC by bring Christian on the yacht. Therefore you would pick the "not getting involved in this option". This option seemingly confirms that narrative that Jaye is being spiteful, as MC walks away in disgust.

Conversely, if you like Jaye, then you probably think that Jaye was attempting to use Christian as an "ice-breaker" so to speak. Getting MC to "defend" Jaye again as a means to remind each other of their bond and potentially to renew it. If you pick any of the three "good" options, the narrative seemingly confirms this too, as Jaye and MC hug and embrace after it - Jaye's plan worked.

You can apply this to other decisions too, including following response to the hug. What ends up happening is that different players are experiencing different narratives - the Jaye in one player's narrative is a different Jaye to another player's narrative.

Though I don't think this is the only reason why people might dislike Jaye, I think it's a contributing factor. As for Jaye's other specific actions:

Reading her brother's journal is super understandable. Yes it's an invasion of privacy and hypocrtical, but honestly, can you blame her? She's just been reunited for her estranged and beloved brother, who has done some crazy stuff while gone, and only left because of huge miscommunication. Wouldn't you be tempted to know what they were thinking at the time?

For the general miscommunication and standoffishness when they were teens, I really envy you people whose experiences with teenage romance were only positive and problem-free. Teenage love is extremely messy and prone to big errors, let alone the familial circumstance Jaye and MC are in. I find the love between Jaye and MC extremely believable and sympathetic, and why I find the game so far compelling.

I can't remember if what other major complaints about Jaye there are.
But it's not like that and it's not a deduction, Jaye says it directly when she talks to Tara. she takes Cristian to the ship to see if Mc still cares enough about her to want to defend her. she has every reason to doubt her brother's feelings, in the end they haven't felt each other for 5 years (because of her, but that's not important) but the choice she makes is very strong, very aggressive. she recreates the scene of their goodbye, without having really talked to him yet.

it's a choice you can understand and forgive, but you may not like it at all.
 

UncleFredo

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Aug 29, 2020
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This is brought up in game, Mallory shoots this theory down because there's only 3 months difference between her and the MC age wise.
If you haven't played to the end of current content you might want to skip the spoiler until you have.
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Terminator_26F

Active Member
Apr 1, 2019
518
994
But it's not like that and it's not a deduction, Jaye says it directly when she talks to Tara. she takes Cristian to the ship to see if Mc still cares enough about her to want to defend her. she has every reason to doubt her brother's feelings, in the end they haven't felt each other for 5 years (because of her, but that's not important) but the choice she makes is very strong, very aggressive. she recreates the scene of their goodbye, without having really talked to him yet.
Jaye is surprised at the airport by Motherfucker who seems to be the bearer of an official notice from the company that employed Sarah. What could be more natural than to take him aboard the helicopter so that he can give this paper to George as quickly as possible. This allows her to kill two birds with one stone: tickle his brother with the scent of Motherfucker and allow them to team up to throw him overboard. And this is the beginning of the reconnection of the last two members of their family.
 
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UncleFredo

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Aug 29, 2020
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But it's not like that and it's not a deduction, Jaye says it directly when she talks to Tara. she takes Cristian to the ship to see if Mc still cares enough about her to want to defend her. she has every reason to doubt her brother's feelings, in the end they haven't felt each other for 5 years (because of her, but that's not important) but the choice she makes is very strong, very aggressive. she recreates the scene of their goodbye, without having really talked to him yet.

it's a choice you can understand and forgive, but you may not like it at all.
When she tells him it was a test she's yet to confess her true feelings for him. We have access to her inner monolog and her partial statements before she restates herself. We know that she was panicked and felt that if she could reach HIM - she corrects what she tells him to the reaching the yacht but we clearly see that she almost slips and says you - she'd be safe.

She entraps Christian to the yacht because the MC is there and she KNOWS that he'll protect her from Christian. So yeah while the fact she lies about her real motive is not the best choice, both of them are hiding their feelings and the relationship hasn't reached the point where either of them is willing or perhaps able to admit the truth.
 
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felicemastronzo

Devoted Member
May 17, 2020
11,686
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Jaye is surprised at the airport by Motherfucker who seems to be the bearer of an official notice from the company that employed Sarah. What could be more natural than to take him aboard the helicopter so that he can give this paper to George as quickly as possible. This allows her to kill two birds with one stone: tickle his brother with the scent of Motherfucker and allow them to team up to throw him overboard. And this is the beginning of the reconnection of the last two members of their family.
When she tells him it was a test she's yet to confess her true feelings for him. We have access to her inner monolog and her partial statements before she restates herself. We know that she was panicked and felt that if she could reach HIM - she corrects what she tells him to the reaching the yacht but we clearly see that she almost slips and says you - she'd be safe.

She entraps Christian to the yacht because the MC is there and she KNOWS that he'll protect her from Christian. So yeah while the fact she lies about her real motive is not the best choice, both of them are hiding their feelings and the relationship hasn't reached the point where either of them is willing or perhaps able to admit the truth.
I have never doubted Jaye's feelings for MC, but it is evident from the scene how she is amused, pleased with her idea while MC is very distressed and disoriented

Jaye doesn't know if Mc will defend her, she hopes so. in fact MC may not do it and among other things the best choice is just not to do it and let her do it...

as soon as she gets off the helicopter she "enjoys" the scene and the shock on MC, that's human, but it's not pleasant for MC

we can put it any way we want, but to be put to the test, without having particular faults to be forgiven, is never pleasant, and is a risky first move in rebuilding a relationship.

Jaye risks a lot and in fact depending on how MC/we react she wins a lot or loses almost everything
 
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