VN HTML Ren'Py Completed Coming to Grips with Christine [Ep. 1-5] [Tora Productions]

[Boogie]

All I can say is that I appreciate that Tlaero and Mortze make games that cater to my simple tastes. There are enough other games out there that provide the kinks to satisfy most other players. As a boring straight male my game preference is just vanilla romance, ideally with the option to choose a favourite from multiple ladies.

As for female protagonist games, I stopped playing them as they all seemed to be created by men for the sole purpose of inflicting constant abuse on the female. Perhaps a strong female character written by a female author may convince me to try it one more time.

 

[Ness99]

Hello Tlaero, your games are incredible, you really have talent. I wanted to know if there will be a sequel to Redemption for Jessika?
Coming to grips with Christine?
Pandora?
Sorry for my English.

ps: My favorite characters are Jessika, Christine, Rita and Nikki

 

[Avaron1974]

Hello Tlaero, your games are incredible, you really have talent. I wanted to know if there will be a sequel to Redemption for Jessika?

Redemption for Jessika was part of the Elsaverse series.

Dreaming With Elsa.
Redemption for Jessikia.
Finding Miranda.
Saving Chloe.

Finding Miranda was the sequel to Redemption for Jessika. That series is now finished, it ended with Saving Chloe.

There are some Elsa shorts but that's about it.

 

[Tlaero]

Avaron is right, although if you're willing to read a text-only novella, the story "AAA" intersects with Jess a fair amount. You can find it

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. The Patron-only "Elsa's Nightmares" will touch on Jess as well, but that chapter is a few months away.

As for Coming to Grips with Christine, if you go back a few pages in this thread, you'll see some discussion about "Life Changes for Keeley."

Tlaero

 

[blackmagic616]

Also the fact that as the 3D artist I might not be comfortable in rendering male gay or trans stuff.

Why?

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[Chillz]

Why?

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Dude because he doesn't want to do it. It's not his thing. If you want that kind of content you can go to a creator whose games cater to your preferences. Tlaero and Mortze shouldn't have to create games which makes them uncomfortable or goes against their morals.

 

[blackmagic616]

Dude because he doesn't want to do it. It's not his thing. If you want that kind of content you can go to a creator whose games cater to your preferences. Tlaero and Mortze shouldn't have to create games which makes them uncomfortable or goes against their morals.

Jesus, it was just a joke.
And I didn't even say that I am interested in such things.

 

[Mortze]

blackmagic616 was joking, I know it. No sweat.

Speaking of sweat, no, I don't want to render male gay stuff because I don't think it's exciting. It won't be fun.
Totally supporting what each one does with his/her body and sexuality though as long as it doesn't collide with other peoples' (and other sentient beings) free will to choose what to do with theirs.

 

[Avaron1974]

A lot of devs have said the same thing, they avoid content they don't enjoy personally because they wouldn't be able to do a good job of it and wouldn't enjoy doing it.

 

[blackmagic616]

A lot of devs have said the same thing, they avoid content they don't enjoy personally because they wouldn't be able to do a good job of it and wouldn't enjoy doing it.

Actually no. Most devs, if you ask them about it, will say that they fully support the idea, have a lot of friends in the LGBTQIFA community, or even they are bisexual themselves, but they are afraid of that it would reduce the game audience.
And it is funny, because you know that many devs are just uncomfortable with this theme, but they are afraid to say it out loud.

 

[Tlaero]

Actually no. Most devs, if you ask them about it, will say that they fully support the idea, have a lot of friends in the LGBTQIFA community, or even they are bisexual themselves, but they are afraid of that it would reduce the game audience.
And it is funny, because you know that many devs are just uncomfortable with this theme, but they are afraid to say it out loud.

If this is a veiled reference back to me, I'll refer you to the gay (both male and female) and non-binary characters in my games and contend that I treated them with respect. I certainly don't claim to be bisexual. Physically, I'm strictly hetero.

But the fear of reducing the game audience is heavily rooted in reality. I literally had someone tell me that I ruined an entire game with the single line, "The internet is an unfriendly place, especially for women," when that's something I myself have experienced. And many people are considerably more hostile to homosexuality than women in general. If I had a gay male sex scene in a story, even if it was on a hidden path that you didn't need to see, and I let you skip it, people would be up in arms, the same way they were for Mass Effect.

Tlaero

 

[blackmagic616]

If this is a veiled reference back to me

Actually, not you. I was thinking about several male developers (and maybe some sharks). I prefer not to mention them by name, because I don't want to embarrass them.

I'll refer you to the gay (both male and female) and non-binary characters in my games and contend that I treated them with respect.

To be honest, I don't remember any such character in your games. I finished most of your games, including:
- Meeting Keeley, Getting to Know Christine, Life with Keeley, Coffee for Keisha
- Daydreaming with Keeley
- Coming to Grips with Christine
- Pandora
- Dreaming with Elsa, Redemption for Jessika, Finding Miranda, Saving Chloe
- some shorties, including Dreaming with Elsa: Learning to Fly, Royal Guard, Dreaming with Elsa: Dreaming with the Dead
- first chapter of Darkness Falls
Still, I am unable to point just single gay (male) person.

I certainly don't claim to be bisexual. Physically, I'm strictly hetero.

Yeah, I know this. You never said otherwise.

But the fear of reducing the game audience is heavily rooted in reality. I literally had someone tell me that I ruined an entire game with the single line, "The internet is an unfriendly place, especially for women," when that's something I myself have experienced.

I bet that even shark's lagoon is friendlier for women than the Internet in general.

And many people are considerably more hostile to homosexuality than women in general. If I had a gay male sex scene in a story, even if it was on a hidden path that you didn't need to see, and I let you skip it, people would be up in arms, the same way they were for Mass Effect.

Agree, people complain about other things in the same way. Although I don't like NTR, I don't mind a girl leaving us when we treat her like shit. Still, people complained about this in My Girlfriend's Amnesia.
Another example would be a shemale hooker in Doctor Amana: Sexual Therapist. Completely avoidable, but people still hate the developer for this.

 

[Tlaero]

Okay,

Christine was bi-curious in Getting to Know Christine. I recognize that, in this genre, that's basically an excuse for a male fantasy FFM, but the story at least tried to show her as curious.

Theresa, the waitress at Delfinos is bi as seen in the bonus scene in Dreaming with Elsa.

Sara and Sylvia are openly gay in Redemption for Jessika.

Vince, the bouncer at El Cuerpo, is written as gay in Redemption for Jessika and Finding Miranda, but not explicitly called out as such.

Oliver, the ice rink owner in Finding Miranda is openly gay, and Lucas describes being an ally to him in high school.

Serena in Saving Chloe is explicitly bi for storyline/characterization reasons, not just to make an excuse for a sex scene.

Xara is pansexual in Saving Chloe, and in Demon Guard she is falling for a female member of an alien race.

Amanda in AAA is openly gay, and there's significance in how Alexis and Ana treat her.

In Darkness Falls, Won explicitly says that, when it comes to sexual attraction for her, gender doesn't play a role.


I recognize that, aside from Won, these are all secondary characters. I haven't released a game that revolves around a gay relationship (yet!) but, believe me or not, I will assert that's a matter of treading lightly with my audience. I got a LOT of feedback after Life with Keeley that people didn't even want to play as a female character. Doing an actual story about a non-traditional relationship will take some doing (but I'm doing it nonetheless).

Tlaero

 

[blackmagic616]

Okay,

Christine was bi-curious in Getting to Know Christine. I recognize that, in this genre, that's basically an excuse for a male fantasy FFM, but the story at least tried to show her as curious.

Theresa, the waitress at Delfinos is bi as seen in the bonus scene in Dreaming with Elsa.

Sara and Sylvia are openly gay in Redemption for Jessika.

Vince, the bouncer at El Cuerpo, is written as gay in Redemption for Jessika and Finding Miranda, but not explicitly called out as such.

Oliver, the ice rink owner in Finding Miranda is openly gay, and Lucas describes being an ally to him in high school.

Serena in Saving Chloe is explicitly bi for storyline/characterization reasons, not just to make an excuse for a sex scene.

Xara is pansexual in Saving Chloe, and in Demon Guard she is falling for a female member of an alien race.

Amanda in AAA is openly gay, and there's significance in how Alexis and Ana treat her.

In Darkness Falls, Won explicitly says that, when it comes to sexual attraction for her, gender doesn't play a role.


I recognize that, aside from Won, these are all secondary characters. I haven't released a game that revolves around a gay relationship (yet!) but, believe me or not, I will assert that's a matter of treading lightly with my audience. I got a LOT of feedback after Life with Keeley that people didn't even want to play as a female character. Doing an actual story about a non-traditional relationship will take some doing (but I'm doing it nonetheless).

Tlaero

I knew about lesbians (or bi-curious women), but I couldn't recognize any male gay person. To be honest, I don't even remember Vince and Oliver, but it's been a while since I played games from the Elsaverse.
As for Christine from Getting to Know Christine, I thought she is into swinging. I always wondered if this is somehow related to the author's fantasies, but I was afraid to ask.

 

[Floga]

People get .... passionate .... about things they like.

I was talking about how the thread took a turn towards theories of evolution.

 

[Tlaero]

As for Christine from Getting to Know Christine, I thought she is into swinging. I always wondered if this is somehow related to the author's fantasies, but I was afraid to ask.

A number of my fantasies have made it into my games, especially things involving water. But swinging has never been one of them.

Tlaero

 

[blackmagic616]

A number of my fantasies have made it into my games, especially things involving water. But swinging has never been one of them.

Tlaero

I knew you are dreaming about a tiger in the water!

 

[RomanHume]

Another example would be a shemale hooker in Doctor Amana: Sexual Therapist. Completely avoidable, but people still hate the developer for this.

Since I was mentioned I feel I should set the record straight. No one has ever expressed any hate towards me or my game for including a trans gender character. In fact, since you're never forced to have sex with her or even see her naked, I've had many full heterosexual players say they preferred her story path to that of the non-trans character because they found the trans character more likable. They opted for her path without the sex over the path the standard hooker fare.

There was concern in the beginning about her inclusion but when players experienced how she was incorporated into the story there was nothing but praise for how it was handled.

If there is hate towards me or my game for including a trans character, then I'm unaware of it because they've never posted about it in my thread or on my patreon. And I read every post.

Cheers mates!

 

[Avaron1974]

Sara and Sylvia are openly gay in Redemption for Jessika.

Best side couple ever.

 

[blackmagic616]

Since I was mentioned I feel I should set the record straight. No one has ever expressed any hate towards me or my game for including a trans gender character. In fact, since you're never forced to have sex with her or even see her naked, I've had many full heterosexual players say they preferred her story path to that of the non-trans character because they found the trans character more likable. They opted for her path without the sex over the path the standard hooker fare.

There was concern in the beginning about her inclusion but when players experienced how she was incorporated into the story there was nothing but praise for how it was handled.

If there is hate towards me or my game for including a trans character, then I'm unaware of it because they've never posted about it in my thread or on my patreon. And I read every post.

Cheers mates!

I recently saw hate caused by the optional trans character, and I was pretty damn sure that it was about your game. The question is, if it wasn't about you, then who? I know that I have recently seen discontent with such a character in Lunars Chosen, but it was something stronger than this. Maybe it was about Indecent Desire? Damn, I barely remember this game.