Kugatsu500

Newbie
Feb 20, 2018
47
89
Bull shit it's not a plothole. I respect your pacifist viewpoint but trying to invalidate my argument with no evidence? Nah, it's a fucking plothole. You guys so ardently trying to tell me it's not a plothole has just made me double down. Prove it's not a plothole and I'll back down, or just move on. Stop trying to tell me it's not a plothole with zero evidence.

I honestly don't even give a fuck that the plothole exists, I just wanted more info, but for some reason you fanboys/smurfs decided to try and gaslight me instead.
You can't prove a negative, so "prove it is not a plot hole" is not possible, but I will try to argue as to why I don't think it is. A plot hole presents itself as an inconsistency in the narrative, or in a character. Claire not having her necklace with her at home is most certainly not a plot hole, because it is not inconsistent with anything that was said or shown in the story. It would be a plot hole IF, and only IF, we had a dialogue saying that it was mandatory, or at least common practice for every single employee of the Order always carries their equipment with them, which was never said.

The Order functions in a way that is similar to the military. And in the military people don't take their service weapons home, when they are not serving, their equipment is stored in the military armory. And the imbued artifacts are even more important than weapons, so there is logic to why they wouldn't be allowed to carry them at all times outside of when they are serving.

Also, on another argument entirely, these people only need these imbued artifacts when they are investigating and hunting for Dark Ones at the orders of the higher ups. In the same way that military personnel don't need to take their service weapons home (and they can't anyways), the people of the Order don't need to take their artifacts, because they are off duty, they would not be out hunting for companions and dark ones, just as soldiers would not be out hunting criminals on the street when they are off duty.

Even if there was a danger of them being attacked in their homes by some disgruntled Companion, which again, was never mentioned in the game canon, a single civilian with no power would not be able to fight back anyways, and the only result would be them dying and artifact being lost.

And just as a final point, the Order employees were able to detect MC as a Companion when he was using Nael's pearl, and other Companions were also able to detect him. So considering that imbued artifactss are pretty much the same thing as Nael's pearl, just weaker, it would be pretty possible that those things could be detected by other Companions, which would put these people in jeopardy while they were unprotected at their homes. So yes, there are a lot of logical reasons, and precedent, as to why Claire wouldn't use her imbued artifact at home.

I hope you can consider my arguments without anger, and without believing people want to gaslight you. At least, I don't.
 
Last edited:

adsta

Newbie
Jul 2, 2021
88
88
Bull shit it's not a plothole. I respect your pacifist viewpoint but trying to invalidate my argument with no evidence? Nah, it's a fucking plothole. You guys so ardently trying to tell me it's not a plothole has just made me double down. Prove it's not a plothole and I'll back down, or just move on. Stop trying to tell me it's not a plothole with zero evidence.

I honestly don't even give a fuck that the plothole exists, I just wanted more info, but for some reason you fanboys/smurfs decided to try and gaslight me instead.
I already told you the explanation, I already said that you can always suggest changes. Arguing about it more won't change anything. Feel free to go into the discord and suggest how you think it could be changed to make more sense, I'll even try and help to make sure it doesn't contradict anything else, but there is no reason to keep going on and on saying the same thing and trying to insult others.
 

Zorad

Newbie
Nov 2, 2017
43
264
Bull shit it's not a plothole. I respect your pacifist viewpoint but trying to invalidate my argument with no evidence? Nah, it's a fucking plothole. You guys so ardently trying to tell me it's not a plothole has just made me double down. Prove it's not a plothole and I'll back down, or just move on. Stop trying to tell me it's not a plothole with zero evidence.

I honestly don't even give a fuck that the plothole exists, I just wanted more info, but for some reason you fanboys/smurfs decided to try and gaslight me instead.
The evidence is literally Claire saying that she never brought the accessory home. You can call that a bullshit excuse or not, but that's what it is; an excuse. Plot hole would be the game saying that she always brought the jewelry home but somehow never caught neither Liam or Clara with their Dark Ones.

I'm not a fanboy who is unable to accept that one of my favorite games has its flaws. In fact, this games has a few moments that I would call plot holes.

You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.

No one here is trying to gaslight you. There is a difference between plot holes and plot conveniences, and Claire is most certainly the latter's case.
 
  • Like
Reactions: HiP1

Meiri

Newbie
Nov 1, 2019
61
68
Bull shit it's not a plothole. I respect your pacifist viewpoint but trying to invalidate my argument with no evidence? Nah, it's a fucking plothole. You guys so ardently trying to tell me it's not a plothole has just made me double down. Prove it's not a plothole and I'll back down, or just move on. Stop trying to tell me it's not a plothole with zero evidence.

I honestly don't even give a fuck that the plothole exists, I just wanted more info, but for some reason you smurfs decided to try and gaslight me instead.

Edit: Yep, I'm done arguing. No evidence, bunch of words. More gaslighting. Cya.
I wouldn't say that's a plothole and it's not exactly the most intelligent decision on Claire not to bring the jewelry home but there are possible explanations for that: Her daughter never leaves the house, she lives on order territory, Matt is supposed to live relatively near and at this point in story is supposed to be honorable, he wouldn't let dangerous ferals or companions get nearby so no really need to take that jewelry home.

But for someone like Claire who is pretty competent at her job and has a lot of knowledge about companions she should have suspected something was off when her daughter left with MC specially after the experience she just had at school...
 

resgar

Member
Mar 15, 2020
127
195
So I caught up with the latest chapter and I am disappointed with the way the story has been developing...

Powerlevels: they are all over the place first we had Matt / Az who was building up to be a great rival for us and then... Nothing, We never beat him in fact it's him who wins and it's not even close so Rule B saves the day and he disappears from the story what a waste of a character...
Ok. Ill bait. Nope. The MC's power level is slowly growing and still has room to grow.

1 - Michael, in toilet<in locker room< awakening murder
2 - Jason+Styx< Eda< Tessa+Matt 1st meet- 1st defeat/retreat
3 - Metal < Thugs_in_Slums (actually only here 1st clean win for MC, against humans, kek)< Legion at gas station (2 win)
4 - Az - 1 by 1 - defeat, Az vs team- defeat, quite humiliating defeat after defeat arc here. Saved by Deus ex rule B
5 - Expanding setting, melancholy, planning and talking, mostly, really. Combat scenes done by others
6 - Three- 3 win for MC, here, 1st clean win against Companion., One - 4 win, against A rank Companion.
7 - Expanding setting, combat scenes done by others.
8 - France under bridge win against 2 Comps, i assume 2 A ranks, or A+B.
9 - Swords A+A+S, 1 frag,

And here, at the moment, we can assume current MC rank is S, S+ at most. Still below Az from 1st chapter, definitely below current Zero, definitely will be challenge against better sword teams and bigger teams. Ghost and guardian in Asia probably will shake MCs ass too. MC has quite a suop of abilities and skills but still has room to grow in control it.

This is according to the pure Powerlevel. And then there are all sorts of hostage-brothers and helpless hot goth friends and political intrigues. I think the developer quite ready to release convincing 5+ more chapters.

Potential future worthy opponents:
Better sword slaves, teams of Comps, Unus_with supplements, Ghost, Zero, Guardian of Asia, and probably Emma depressed(as Az), manipulated or enslaved by sword. Also Claire or someone else might come to idea to reawake Tessah in human world, as we did with Arsael.


As for Claire and Gab and others


Who can stop Clair in order if they specifically invited her again, as is too much challenge just to handle only strike force groups? And why some one has to stop her here if there are results for Order? Realistically who can possibly and wanted to stop Claire? Only who sees full picture of her operations is Gab and us (as Player).

And Gab painfully naive and spoiled by Nael. It is only Nael allow Gab too keep his White knight cap and cape, and relatively clean hands. And also Gab was spoiled by Nael who constantly patched and solving, even HUMANITY DESTRUCTION - level, his bad decisions. That is why Gab is tended to bite more than he chew at the moment. And still trying to solve all alone. Gab has it flaws too.

Emma is still just naive schoolgirl hurdled in blood vortex way bigger than she even can imagine. It is too much for her notice anything as she confused by her feelings at first, and after that, literally physically stunned by Zero.

Clara is still sheltered and still live in her game world, she still cant imagine that mother can do something wrong.


They all only humans. Allow them to be. It is exactly this imperfection of each character makes story more realistic overall.
And yes, exactly these imperfections will be room to characters to grow.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Meiri

Meiri

Newbie
Nov 1, 2019
61
68
Ok. Ill bait. Nope. The MC's power level is slowly growing and still has room to grow.

1 - Michael, in toilet<in locker room< awakening murder
2 - Jason+Styx< Eda< Tessa+Matt 1st meet- 1st defeat/retreat
3 - Metal < Thugs_in_Slums (actually only here 1st clean win for MC, against humans, kek)< Legion at gas station (2 win)
4 - Az - 1 by 1 - defeat, Az vs team- defeat, quite humiliating defeat after defeat arc here. Saved by Deus ex rule B
5 - Expanding setting, melancholy, planning and talking, mostly, really. Combat scenes done by others
6 - Three- 3 win for MC, here, 1st clean win against Companion., One - 4 win, against A rank Companion.
7 - Expanding setting, combat scenes done by others.
8 - France under bridge win against 2 Comps, i assume 2 A ranks, or A+B.
9 - Swords A+A+S, 1 frag,

And here, at the moment, we can assume current MC rank is S, S+ at most. Still below Az from 1st chapter, definitely below current Zero, definitely will be challenge against better sword teams and bigger teams. Ghost and guardian in Asia probably will shake MCs ass too. MC has quite a suop of abilities and skills but still has room to grow in control it.

This is according to the pure Powerlevel. And then there are all sorts of hostage-brothers and helpless hot goth friends and political intrigues. I think the developer quite ready to release convincing 5+ more chapters.

Potential future worthy opponents:
Better sword slaves, teams of Comps, Unus_with supplements, Ghost, Zero, Guardian of Asia, and probably Emma depressed(as Az), manipulated or enslaved by sword. Also Claire or someone else might come to idea to reawake Tessah in human world, as we did with Arsael.


As for Claire and Gab and others


Who can stop Clair in order if they specifically invited her again, as is too much challenge just to handle only strike force groups? And why some one has to stop her here if there are results for Order? Realistically who can possibly and wanted to stop Claire? Only who sees full picture of her operations is Gab and us (as Player).

And Gab painfully naive and spoiled by Nael. It is only Nael allow Gab too keep his White knight cap and cape, and relatively clean hands. And also Gab was spoiled by Nael who constantly patched and solving, even HUMANITY DESTRUCTION - level, his bad decisions. That is why Gab is tended to bite more than he chew at the moment. And still trying to solve all alone. Gab has it flaws too.

Emma is still just naive schoolgirl hurdled in blood vortex way bigger than she even can imagine. It is too much for her notice anything as she confused by her feelings at first, and after that, literally physically stunned by Zero.

Clara is still sheltered and still live in her game world, she still cant imagine that mother can do something wrong.


They all only humans. Allow them to be. It is exactly this imperfection of each character makes story more realistic overall.
And yes, exactly these imperfections will be room to characters to grow.
No bait, thanks for the answer, even if we don't agree on all points there are others I agree with you, there are still many things that could happen in the story so we will see how everything goes.
 

Mommysbuttslut

Engaged Member
Feb 19, 2021
3,821
9,252
And here, at the moment, we can assume current MC rank is S, S+ at most. Still below Az from 1st chapter, definitely below current Zero, definitely will be challenge against better sword teams and bigger teams. Ghost and guardian in Asia probably will shake MCs ass too. MC has quite a suop of abilities and skills but still has room to grow in control it.
You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.
 

HiP1

Active Member
Dec 3, 2023
904
815
Nah bro, what, is the assumption that she will only meet a dark one while she's at work? What dark one would be close enough without her knowing that she wouldn't know they were there before anyone else got close enough to touch the necklace? It's a plothole dude. I'm honestly laughing at all the responses trying to argue it away.
no, the assumption is that she only NEEDS to interact and deal with companions and dark ones at work. she has no reason to do it at home. and it's literally life threatening for her and her daughter if she carries the artifact everywhere. companions and dark ones can pick up on the energy and come investigate.
also, she is quite (in)famous in the world of companions. having an artifact that allows enemies to track her everywhere she goes when off duty is stupid as hell.

The evidence is literally Claire saying that she never brought the accessory home. You can call that a bullshit excuse or not, but that's what it is; an excuse. Plot hole would be the game saying that she always brought the jewelry home but somehow never caught neither Liam or Clara with their Dark Ones.

I'm not a fanboy who is unable to accept that one of my favorite games has its flaws. In fact, this games has a few moments that I would call plot holes.

You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.

No one here is trying to gaslight you. There is a difference between plot holes and plot conveniences, and Claire is most certainly the latter's case.
I don't think the stuff with Tessah is a plot hole, because she only states a possibility. the bond doesn't prevent dark ones to fight each other, it's just that they, themselves, have no reason to do it for a human that will last a tiny amount of time while the grudge could stay forever. the fact that Noel actively suggested it and did it from her own free will just for MC was said to be rulebreaking, but i thought it was more of a tacit rule among them than a real rule from the bond. Arsael also attacked Noel in the very first scene to get the story started, even if we could argue that she was no longer linked to her human thus losing the influence of the bond, but she should still be under the pact which is the real "spell" that was casted. in France, the girl that attacked Noel tried to order her dark one to attack Noel to save her life, so it is a possibility.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Zorad

resgar

Member
Mar 15, 2020
127
195
You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.
No. I dont think there will be Gods-fights. I think they still will be on scale powerlevel near ~ Regen/Zero or Az/RuleB fights at max. Just more variants, more intrigues, hostages, ambushes, poisoning, cloak and dagger stuff, backstabing. Game of thrones, if you catch my drift.

Also pregnancy. I think it is storm in Dark world that is approaching. I think Nael is exactly for this reason started expand her own realm. To make sorta Elysium/Olymp for Darkones, who decide give a birth and leave Human world, to keep balance. And then some will be allowed to switch back and forth. New set o rules will be established. And surely it will not be smooth developing. Mb also punishment for sin will be hardened to 100k or smth. Mb allowing pregnancy will be reward from Nael for loyalty and abiding pact, i dunno....


Just my rambling and speculating a bit here too.
 

camube

Well-Known Member
Jun 4, 2022
1,250
1,148
It's based on your brotherhood points. So if you were on Blake's path but didn't more or less consistently side with the brotherhood then you'd lose her path. Just for reference the fail point is less than 40 Brotherhood points and my save had 81 at the time of the check on the stop the assault path and 71 on the take control of the bunker path. The choice with Blake right before the check gives +15 brotherhood for "Blake I don't know what to tell you" and -15 brotherhood for "You have no choice but to trust me." So if you've got enough brotherhood points then you'll stay on her path with either one of the bunker paths with either choice made. There was a lot of leeway on that check.
thank you v much for the detailed reply! 40 pts to fail when in general we'll have close to double is a lot. Who would fail her path other than deliberately doing that, lol
 

camube

Well-Known Member
Jun 4, 2022
1,250
1,148
Mommysbuttslut i don't use mods when i play AVNs but i have 1 thing im curious. do you know what stat or parameter changes if we let the MC let Blake did her thing? What's the stat difference between intervening and not intervening?
 

stahlblau

Member
Jan 14, 2024
254
340
Claire, what are you doing, Claire? I think we're gonna be facing Claire in a future episode. Clara, my sweet cupcake, you're the one I feel most sorry for.
 

JJJ84

Engaged Member
Dec 24, 2018
3,093
6,449
Started this game couple of days ago & finally all caught up.

And I like this game. I like it a lot.
I feel that there are rich characterization with several of its characters & the way the world building is done I think is done really well that it kept me very much engaged.

Also, kudos to the dev for not falling into the trap of some other titles with fantasy premise, but ends up being slice of life.
For instance, a game starts of its first & second releases with fantasy setting but then throws the MC in a "going to school" environment becoming a boring (when I say this, I don't mean offense to those folks who like this genre, as the saying goes, different strokes for different folks) slice of life, just going to school, going on dates and come on cycle games.

Thankfully, the dev decided to throw the deep end from early on, literally uprooting his school life and putting him in constant situations where he's forced into conflicts.
Which is my kind of jam.

As for the characters, I think my favorite LI is Noel.
Not like any of the LIs of MC are bad, but Noel just has the most richest character development (as well as history with MC out of all LIs), and her relationship with MC & her sister Nael is endearing.
Though I guess in terms of non LI character, I'd say my favorite is Gabriel. His banter and how he cares for MC (his little bro) I found liking quite a bit.
Though, as of this latest update, I'm fearing for his survival tbh given he's just a normal human now....


As for least liked character?
Surprisingly it's not Albere (even though he's one of the villains).
That spot definitely goes to Claire Hilfar, aka Ironhilfar, Clara's mom.

You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.


With the MC, with his status as the new Rule breaker, it does make me wonder whether he will take in more dark ones (given the traditional 1 dark one per companion doesn't apply to him.
Though given him currently having 2 Primordials (Noel, Amy) & a third dark one who is highly skilled in perception, getting another Dark One to bond with him may just make him too OP (actually, if Amy's child turns out to be a girl, that's also another dark one who will be a primordial, so... yeah lol)
.


Only thing that I'd point out is that there were a lot of grammar and spelling mistakes which I noticed in my playthrough.
But good to see that there are proofreader who are working on correcting them.

Anyway, I enjoyed this, and I'll continue following this game with the future updates.
 
4.30 star(s) 114 Votes