Java Corrupted Saviors [Release 56] [CSDev]

[dekeche]

Got a bit of a tough decision to make, with regards to my third city

or


I'm having a bit of a difficult time evaluating how good the "Green Fairy Dust" item is compared to "Reason's Pantsu" - Considering my starter item is "Orgasm in a Can". Fijisawa seems like the better city, overall, but the item doesn't seem that useful to me. Hirakata looks a bit more difficult, but the item seems much better. I could use a second opinion on this.

 

[Nobody032]

Got a bit curious after reading Nobody032's post about chosen being weaker than commanders, and figured I'd share what I find out. - By decompiling the java source code.... again. To establish a baseline, I'll re-share the 3 types of commanders damage progression. Basically, commanders deal damage to trauma and circumstance in a step-down fashion, similar to surround actions. All damage is additive.

Suppressor:
Trauma - 100,75,50,25
Circumstance - 200

Defiler:
Trauma - 200,100,50,25
Circumstance - 300,150

Punisher: (Net damage * punisher effectiveness)
Trauma - 1000,300,100,30
Circumstance - 3000

Now, for Forsaken, damage gets a bit more complicated.
First, we need the forsaken's power constant (PC)- this is the chosen's listed reputation strength (200-2*disgrace) * any additional modifiers to base damage

• Species/Boss modifiers (does not include shattered soul debuff, that gets applied after all other bonuses to actual damage)
• Knowings Target Intimately +50%
• Knowings Target Personally Or obsessed with target +25%
• Defiling - (300-disgrace*2)/100, or (100 + PC) /100

Once we have that value, we can calculate the base trauma and circumstance damage.
Trauma - PC * punisher trauma applied equally to all Trauma's.
Circumstance - PC * 5 * style modifier - damage is applied equally, but only to style specific circumstances. Additionally, several modifiers can further increase this damage, with some effects also applying to Trauma damage.

• Defiler bonus damage -
  • Normal - *2 additional damage to specific circumstance.
  • Tempt - Change style, and apply temp effect if possible. (side note, if tempting, style becomes a unique 1000% PLEA/EXPO style - but trauma damage is set to 0)
  • Traumatize - Base trauma damage becomes PC * 10 for DISG and PAIN, before other modifiers. Circumstance damage becomes 0.
• EXP multiplier
• Distortion bonuses
• Punisher circumstance bonuses
• Dissociative Identity (Shattered Soul) - 20% damage reduction after all other modifiers, to Trauma and Circumstance. (assuming it's effect is active)

So, what does all that mean? Well, let's take a basic 58% disgrace forsaken - That'll cost 18 EE to deploy, and has a reputation strength of 84. So we can expect them to deal 84 base trauma. As for circumstance, they can deal a base damage of 4200, 420, 63, or 12~13 to 1,2,3, or 4 circumstance types.

How does that square up against a 5/3 defiler commander? (Same EE cost, average truama of 93.75, average circumstance of 225 to 2). The defiler wins out in terms of trauma damage (average 93.75 damage). It deals a bit higher average damage, though the forsaken will deal more damage to the demons weaker attributes. In terms of circumstantial damage though? The forsaken wins, by a pretty high margin, if they are targeting 1-2 circumstances. The single target chosen can even beat out a defiler type demon, with under 400% efficiency.

Lets go a bit higher - What about a disgrace of 54%, or 28EE cost? That's comparable to the above demon, with an added suppressor. With a reputation strength of 92, that's going to be a base trauma of 92, and 4600, 460, 69, 14~13. Vs the demons average of 156.25 trauma damage, and ~216 avg. circumstance damage? Again, Trauma goes to the demon, but circumstance? Yes, a forsaken targeting 2 vulnerabilities will deal more average damage, but overall a demon targeting 3 will hit for harder than a comparable chose, for 3. That is, of course, assuming we aren't fielding a 5/5 or 6/5 commander to deal with T3 vulnerability breaks.

So, let's do that. A 5/5 defiler/suppressor commander is 58 EE. We don't have a 58 EE chosen, closest is a 41% disgrace for 59EE. At that level (118 rep), they'll be dealing 118 base trauma, and 5900/590/89~88/18~17 circumstance damage, based on style. Well, those numbers didn't improve - Much better when targeting 2 traits, worse when targeting 3-4. I'm noticing a pattern here....


In conclusion, a baseline chosen will deal less trauma damage than a demon of a similar cost, while dealing much more circumstance damage. Provided, of course, they are targeting only 1-2 circumstances. Otherwise, the demon commander scales better for targeting 3-4 circumstances. Which suggests that in order to use a 3 target chosen successfully, they'll need to have multiple damage modifiers stacked on to match a comparable cost demon.

Well didn't expect someone to do an indepth analysis. Do you think penalties will make up for the damage difference between them? Or what if you decide to use a defiler commander with the corresponding suppressor upgrade(Force orgasm defiler+Plea suppressor etc)?

Since Forsaken deal most damage while in 1-2 DMG combat method you would have to use them after doing some damage in advance else you will either not get a lot of opening or not deal as much circ damage as you could.

As for commanders, you could just use a 30 energy Hate Plea Inju 6/3 commander and then later surround+ Humiliate after capturing second chosen. Forsaken themselves may deal a lot of damage on 1~2 circ but when you surround afterwards you will have to deal with the circ penalty and may not even get many opening depending on the 2 damage types.

Now if the normal chosen have T3 confidence break you will need a 5 capture commander to get 3 captures. But I usually just capture 2 of the chosen and deal with the other chosen myself. Using this method i can start an orgy while having atleast 2 or 3 chosen still have openings after the orgy which I can later use to surround and increase punisher effectiveness one by one and still have 1 capture left.

Another thing forsaken lack is flight. Assuming you use the above(use two captures, save one)method you can get 300%+ Drain effectiveness by capturing a chosen before she regenerates after the orgy. With forsaken you can't do anything against flying chosen unless you count species traits.

Other than that i also prefer consistent captures over captures based around relationship, you can also change around duration for commanders to better fit your scenario. Also I don't see how any forsaken could compare with a completion commander dealing damage in all four circumstance. Though the requirements for getting that commander can be more I guess.

 

[Nobody032]

Got a bit of a tough decision to make, with regards to my third city
View attachment 2693652
or
View attachment 2693653

I'm having a bit of a difficult time evaluating how good the "Green Fairy Dust" item is compared to "Reason's Pantsu" - Considering my starter item is "Orgasm in a Can". Fijisawa seems like the better city, overall, but the item doesn't seem that useful to me. Hirakata looks a bit more difficult, but the item seems much better. I could use a second opinion on this.

Depends on you honestly. I personally would go for Reason's pantsu since it helps in more scenarios. If you like doing temptations you could get Green fairy dust, the 50% decrease in requirement helps a ton and with Hate and inju levels you deal more Circ damage in temptation.But Reason's pantsu also helps in triggering temptation especially on chosen with minor Innocence vul who always get Level 3 Plea before Hate or inju.

If you do get Reason's pantsu make sure to get a reasonable cost 1000% plea forsaken to help in getting temptation.

 

[Contemplative Yearning]

also the only time I've ever encountered the 'used' image is when I would delete a chosen from the main menu (after single-play or losing the campaign) so I didn't bother to add any.

"used" and "smug" are replacements for "Lewd" and "Joy" used by Forsaken that don't have full Forsaken portrait sets; if they're not in the game'll just use the base one so it's safe to ignore them. Originally they were there so you could manually swap to them when Chosen start getting perverted or sadistic enough to justify the change.

 

[Celerarity]

The new boss chosen are probably going to need some new portrait sets for a lot of the existing image packs, huh? I saw voidsocks make some good looking ones, but all the packs have some stylistic differences.

When I took a crack at it I had no luck copying the existing styles. That worked out for me because I was doing alternative/forsaken versions, but for a full set I don't know that anyone can make 'em like the original authors.

"used" and "smug" are replacements for "Lewd" and "Joy" used by Forsaken that don't have full Forsaken portrait sets; if they're not in the game'll just use the base one so it's safe to ignore them. Originally they were there so you could manually swap to them when Chosen start getting perverted or sadistic enough to justify the change.

But if you put them in anyway they get used, right? I feel like I've seen the 'used' and 'smug' portraits show up in game.

 

[dekeche]

Well didn't expect someone to do an indepth analysis. Do you think penalties will make up for the damage difference between them? Or what if you decide to use a defiler commander with the corresponding suppressor upgrade(Force orgasm defiler+Plea suppressor etc)?

Since Forsaken deal most damage while in 1-2 DMG combat method you would have to use them after doing some damage in advance else you will either not get a lot of opening or not deal as much circ damage as you could.

As for commanders, you could just use a 30 energy Hate Plea Inju 6/3 commander and then later surround+ Humiliate after capturing second chosen. Forsaken themselves may deal a lot of damage on 1~2 circ but when you surround afterwards you will have to deal with the circ penalty and may not even get many opening depending on the 2 damage types.

Now if the normal chosen have T3 confidence break you will need a 5 capture commander to get 3 captures. But I usually just capture 2 of the chosen and deal with the other chosen myself. Using this method i can start an orgy while having atleast 2 or 3 chosen still have openings after the orgy which I can later use to surround and increase punisher effectiveness one by one and still have 1 capture left.

Another thing forsaken lack is flight. Assuming you use the above(use two captures, save one)method you can get 300%+ Drain effectiveness by capturing a chosen before she regenerates after the orgy. With forsaken you can't do anything against flying chosen unless you count species traits.

Other than that i also prefer consistent captures over captures based around relationship, you can also change around duration for commanders to better fit your scenario. Also I don't see how any forsaken could compare with a completion commander dealing damage in all four circumstance. Though the requirements for getting that commander can be more I guess.

I'm not exactly sure what penalties you are referring to, but I believe any chosen or situation specific modifiers are applied after these calculations, so they'd effect both equally. Advanced chosen might skew the numbers in the favor of forsaken though, as some of their T3 abilities are weaker against forsaken.

As for complementary suppressors, the math is the same, I was averaging the damages of each type, then adding them together for my final numbers. And while a focused approach does mean more damage on a specific circumstance, it's still not enough to match a comparable chosen's values, as long as they are targeting 1-2 circumstances.

From my experience, it seems like forsaken are best used to break T1-T2 vulnerabilities early in the game before you unlock all the 20EE upgrades, or for applying useful effects on future forsaken via punishers. They could potentially also fill weird niches, like capturing the same chosen 4+ times to increase train. You might be able to make a forsaken that can deal more trauma damage than a demon, but it'd probably require a combination of the two publicist punishers that give added trauma damage.

 

[Contemplative Yearning]

But if you put them in anyway they get used, right? I feel like I've seen the 'used' and 'smug' portraits show up in game.

Yes, the Fosaken will use them. At some point I'll get around to commissioning some vignettes that call for them for Chosen.

 

[DankMemesAndCreams]

I can't help it. From the beginning,

You must be registered to see the links

when I read "Commander."

 

[DankMemesAndCreams]

Is there a point to using high-end commanders in the late game once all girls are at the T3 -> T4 stage? Right now it seems like the best course of action is to let one girl use her adaptations repeatedly to grind through her punisher susceptibility in order to unlock T4 breaks. Once that's over with, then it would make sense to get some beefy commanders with Flight etc. to grind some ridiculous numbers, but right now it seems like a waste of EE?

EDIT:
It seems like the fastest way to get anywhere is an orgy. A 4-5 turn orgy is enough to get my team's circumstances to 10 , which means every time they use an adaptation attack they're getting way more progress towards the T4 break. If you can achieve the early orgy, you can just surround one or two of the girls and let the free ones fantasize/striptease/slaughter in turns. Grinding detonate seems harder; spamming Drain punishers or turning off ambush and only using the commander after manually increasing their circumstances seems like the way to go there?

I'd appreciate any tips/strategies on the T3 -> T4 stage in general. How to get faster orgies, how to powerlevel their punisher susceptibility, etc.

 

[Nobody032]

I'm not exactly sure what penalties you are referring to, but I believe any chosen or situation specific modifiers are applied after these calculations, so they'd effect both equally. Advanced chosen might skew the numbers in the favor of forsaken though, as some of their T3 abilities are weaker against forsaken.

As for complementary suppressors, the math is the same, I was averaging the damages of each type, then adding them together for my final numbers. And while a focused approach does mean more damage on a specific circumstance, it's still not enough to match a comparable chosen's values, as long as they are targeting 1-2 circumstances.

From my experience, it seems like forsaken are best used to break T1-T2 vulnerabilities early in the game before you unlock all the 20EE upgrades, or for applying useful effects on future forsaken via punishers. They could potentially also fill weird niches, like capturing the same chosen 4+ times to increase train. You might be able to make a forsaken that can deal more trauma damage than a demon, but it'd probably require a combination of the two publicist punishers that give added trauma damage.

Usually with the 3 circ commander the truama remains more even in levels, when compared to 1-2 circ forsaken depending on the circumstance chosen. Other than that depending on combat style of forsaken may have to deal with circ penalty as well while with 3 circ commander you can get Hate+Inju while also get openings+ More even trauma levels through Plea +Hate.

As for the t3 difference, i have found its better to just let the animalsitic chosen do her thing when she arrives or maybe do 1 commander surround for her. For undead chosen you can just bring all the circumstances to high levels through orgies then let her self destruct. So I personally don't feel the need to deploy chosen against them. Though if you don't have enough energy then it's better to deploy a forskaen after the curse lock by undead.

I see, was mostly just wondering if that did more compared to 2 circ chosen.

I mean I think forsaken are useful, it's just that I personally think it's more effective to use commanders when we talk about 30+ energy requirements. Especially since forsakens will do less damage if they have a poor relationship(Because of duration)and with commanders you have the flight advantage for higher drain damage than usually possible on normal and superior chosen.

As for uses of Forsaken, on later loops it's just plain better to have a 3 or a bit more energy, tempted undead chosen because of less energy/motivation requirement and stamina restoration ability. Especially if you face against undead chosen. I have already admitted that the best use of forsaken is the punisher abilities. 1000% Forsaken can help a ton too in triggering a break you have trouble with(especially against animalistic chosen). But I don't see the point in deploying high energy forsakens. The temptation defilers are probably also a huge help in triggering distortions early(Don't use them myself).

Btw is the trauma damage punisher effect permanent or for one loop only? I thought it was one loop only so by the time you get it you don't exactly need it. But if it's permanent then that might change things.

 

[Nobody032]

Is there a point to using high-end commanders in the late game once all girls are at the T3 -> T4 stage? Right now it seems like the best course of action is to let one girl use her adaptations repeatedly to grind through her punisher susceptibility in order to unlock T4 breaks. Once that's over with, then it would make sense to get some beefy commanders with Flight etc. to grind some ridiculous numbers, but right now it seems like a waste of EE?

EDIT:
It seems like the fastest way to get anywhere is an orgy. A 4-5 turn orgy is enough to get my team's circumstances to 10 , which means every time they use an adaptation attack they're getting way more progress towards the T4 break. If you can achieve the early orgy, you can just surround one or two of the girls and let the free ones fantasize/striptease/slaughter in turns. Grinding detonate seems harder; spamming Drain punishers or turning off ambush and only using the commander after manually increasing their circumstances seems like the way to go there?

I'd appreciate any tips/strategies on the T3 -> T4 stage in general. How to get faster orgies, how to powerlevel their punisher susceptibility, etc.

Well triggering an orgy is the best way to get effectiveness. You can just delay drain effectiveness till you get 1 T4 break, since then chosen will generate 50 energy each.

Best way to get drain effectiveness is to save 1 flying capture for after triggering the orgy. Which means for one of the chosen you have to trigger orgy by using normal surround tactics(Definetely possible). What this means is getting 1 or 2 opening on the third chosen , using Caress + Grind. Then surround and increase the Circumstance you need for an orgy. I recommend keeping the other two chosen in Sodomize or Force orgasm +. If you do this after t4 break make sure to get completion to make a Commander which deals all damage.

I personally don't buy Impregnation,Hypnosis, Drain and Parasitism till i get the effectiveness. Instead i use that energy to make a 6 duration and 5 capture Hate,Plea,Inju commander. I use this commander on two of the chosen. Deal damage to the third chosen through surround. Then use the 1 Capture left to get drain effectiveness after an orgy. It usually gives 300%+.

Don't know if this helps,I am not exactly good at explaining things to others.

 

[SuperSkippy]

Is there a point to using high-end commanders in the late game once all girls are at the T3 -> T4 stage? Right now it seems like the best course of action is to let one girl use her adaptations repeatedly to grind through her punisher susceptibility in order to unlock T4 breaks. Once that's over with, then it would make sense to get some beefy commanders with Flight etc. to grind some ridiculous numbers, but right now it seems like a waste of EE?

EDIT:
It seems like the fastest way to get anywhere is an orgy. A 4-5 turn orgy is enough to get my team's circumstances to 10 , which means every time they use an adaptation attack they're getting way more progress towards the T4 break. If you can achieve the early orgy, you can just surround one or two of the girls and let the free ones fantasize/striptease/slaughter in turns. Grinding detonate seems harder; spamming Drain punishers or turning off ambush and only using the commander after manually increasing their circumstances seems like the way to go there?

I'd appreciate any tips/strategies on the T3 -> T4 stage in general. How to get faster orgies, how to powerlevel their punisher susceptibility, etc.

I made a post about this specifically a while back that might be helpful:

https://f95zone.to/threads/corrupted-saviors-release-42b-csdev.63932/post-10264623

 

[Scepticism]

I would like to implement Morality/Innocence Distortions and Confidence/Dignity Distortions, but I'm not 100% settled on how they'll work yet.

For morality/innocence I'd like to imagine something like the chosen becoming a rapist. Considering humanity their enemies them and being addicted to pleasure the chosen would see it justified to take what they want from those who deserve it. This distortion would of course require some dignity loss as this is pretty deviant and almost no confidence break as they don't fret away from these evil actions. Maybe they'll even turn into an extreme sadist, pursuing sexual pleasure and thrill from mercilessly torturing/killing citizens of the city?

As for confidence/dignity you might consider some sort of bully victim. Not being able to stand up to the demons violence/threats of hurting innocent humans, they are forced to engage in humiliating actions such as sexual slavery, paraded around naked in town in animal cosplay or perhaps being forced to act as a propaganda agent for the demons to demoralize the rest of the chosen/humanity?

 

[dekeche]

Btw is the trauma damage punisher effect permanent or for one loop only? I thought it was one loop only so by the time you get it you don't exactly need it. But if it's permanent then that might change things.

Depends on which trauma ability you mean. A Showy Publicist is an active ability, and will directly give angst (trauma) to every chosen in the city. A Hardworking Publicist is a trainer ability, and will grant their victim a permanent bonus (like the other trainer type punishers - bonus is based on disgrace when performed). A Notorious Publicest is a growth ability, and will grant a permanent bonus when performing the punisher action (bonuses do stack, and is based on the disgrace when performed, not current).

 

[mathiau]

I remember that at some point CSdev said he would change the fact distorting a core vulnerability of a chosen always gave progress toward rivalry unless the chosen with the minor vulnerability already had the same distortion, but I didn't see it in any of the changelogs, is it still planned?

 

[ShadowBlaze94]

I remember that someone had posted a guide about what types of Forsaken you should be aiming to build. Does anyone happen to know the one I'm talking about?

 

[Nobody032]

Depends on which trauma ability you mean. A Showy Publicist is an active ability, and will directly give angst (trauma) to every chosen in the city. A Hardworking Publicist is a trainer ability, and will grant their victim a permanent bonus (like the other trainer type punishers - bonus is based on disgrace when performed). A Notorious Publicest is a growth ability, and will grant a permanent bonus when performing the punisher action (bonuses do stack, and is based on the disgrace when performed, not current).

I see. So high energy forsaken are useful for "training" future forsaken or increasing self damage? I was mainly focused on commander vs forsaken in the battle itself. Thanks for the info.

I didn't exactly read all the punisher effects of forsaken since I wanted to make sure all the breaks are done by the demon lord and for the added challenge. Maybe now i will use the relevant high energy forsaken to increase the damage of the low energy forsakens.

 

[Kaitol]

I would like to implement Morality/Innocence Distortions and Confidence/Dignity Distortions, but I'm not 100% settled on how they'll work yet.

For Confidence/Dignity I always pictured something like Obsession, where she copes with experiencing orgasm and being impregnated by the demon king/forsaken by imagining it as a loving relationship, and starts yandere stalking whoever knocked her up, with a side dish of distorted motherly-ness. Mechanically I dunno, maybe has scaling FEAR/HATE damage based on how many demon kids they've had because she flaunts them in public/battle and reminds Chosen that it could happen to them? If pregnancies were tracked more could have a thing where she flips between two types of bonus based on whether she's currently pregnant or not, but that's more of a pipe dream. (Can you tell this is one I've been looking forward to? ;P)

Morality/Innocence is a bit tougher, nothing jumps out other than turning the chosen into a hyper masochist/exhibitionist, which seems too boring and one-dimensional. Maybe something like the Chosen becomes Enlightened, willingly leaning into becoming a villain as they witness the world cheering and getting off to their public humiliations and tortures? Sort of a combo of rampant and negotiation, but without the hyper-violence or self-deception that they're still trying to help. Maybe has massively increased results from training if assigned as your trainer, to show they're willingly and actively working to bring the world down?

 

[MagnaSonic3000]

Can someone do a portrait pack of real porn actresses (black-haired, redhead and blonde)?

I think it's only all anime, kinda comes with the territory of being magical girls in Japan.

Besides, I think they'd be horribly out of place for something of this nature.

 

[DankMemesAndCreams]

I beat the classic "Single Play" mode to get back into the game but my first go at the final battle left me with only two of the three Chosen. I went back and tried it again, but this time I lost and only nabbed one of the chosen - coincidentally the one I'd missed the prior time. I had all three chosen in the forsaken menu, but I wanted to try to figure out the final battle. I finally captured all three, but I ended up with duplicates of all the girls in the forsaken menu.

Can I safely prune the duplicates, or will that piss off the characters due to them all having unbreakable bonds with each other?