Java Corrupted Saviors [Release 58] [CSDev]
- Mar 20, 2019
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Everyone here basically answered what I was going to so I don't really need to add anything else there!
The only thing I will add is even for relationships, if a relationship is negative or positive it's still possible to change the relationship to the other, in your case, even if the relationship started off negative, this is because when the relationship between chosen becomes unbreakable bonds/bitter enemies, its because the game is looking at the remaining possible relationship events figuring out if they will be negative or positive and if there will be anymore events left to change the relationship
ie. if a relationship between chosen had been negative from t1 break to t3 break and they don't share a second set of core-minor vulnerabilities, then they would be bitter enemies by the t3 break since even if the t4 relationship event was positive, it wouldn't be enough against the 3 negative events.
Which sounds really complicated I know, so to simplify I'll put it in terms like these-
-if a chosen has only 1 core and 1 minor vulnerablity they will only have 4 relationship events with each of their teammates
-if it is the chosen with 2 cores or 2 minor vulnerabiliies that means they will have 4 extra events with one of their teamates.
-if there were more negative events than positive events in a relationship between chosen and it looks like the remaining possible events can't "fix" the relationship they will be bitter enemies even before you see the last of their events.
-if there were more positive events than negative events in a relationship between chosen and it looks like the remaining possible events can't "break" the relationship they will form an unbreakable bond even before you see the last of their events.
And one addendum for this and it concerns distortions is that the initial distortion can be a relationship event if the one of the vulnerabilities distorted is a core. So for example, if you perform Negotiation which is the morality/dignity distortion on a core morality chosen, it will trigger a relationship event and just like core vulnerabilities and minor vulnerabilities, whether the event is negative or positive depends if the chosen with minor vulnerability was distorted first
With all this said, knowing all of this is really helpful since you can really have it work for you in some ways.
Like, say you wanted an unbreakable bond in the end but needed that early EE bonus from from the negative event? then you can just plan it out where the initial relationship will be negative and then make the rest positive and still have your way.
Alternatively you can have them form an unbreakable bond early and have the rest of the events be negative just to rake in huge EE or to keep things saucy since they love each no matter what now
Either way I hope all of this helps out!
- Mar 20, 2019
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You got things spot on! The only things I added were more based on the intricates of the relationship system
I really do need to consolidate all this info tho, once I finish the current and next release of my portrait pack I'll redouble my efforts into the project I'm working on, I meant to make a post sooner about but my current work schedule has me exhausted as sin these days haha
To clarify because wording around distortions is confusing for my brain guts, the Core needs to be one of the unbroken vulnerabilities for it to be registered as a distortion relationship event?Everyone here basically answered what I was going to so I don't really need to add anything else there!
The only thing I will add is even for relationships, if a relationship is negative or positive it's still possible to change the relationship to the other, in your case, even if the relationship started off negative, this is because when the relationship between chosen becomes unbreakable bonds/bitter enemies, its because the game is looking at the remaining possible relationship events figuring out if they will be negative or positive and if there will be anymore events left to change the relationship
ie. if a relationship between chosen had been negative from t1 break to t3 break and they don't share a second set of core-minor vulnerabilities, then they would be bitter enemies by the t3 break since even if the t4 relationship event was positive, it wouldn't be enough against the 3 negative events.
Which sounds really complicated I know, so to simplify I'll put it in terms like these-
-if a chosen has only 1 core and 1 minor vulnerablity they will only have 4 relationship events with each of their teammates
-if it is the chosen with 2 cores or 2 minor vulnerabiliies that means they will have 4 extra events with one of their teamates.
-if there were more negative events than positive events in a relationship between chosen and it looks like the remaining possible events can't "fix" the relationship they will be bitter enemies even before you see the last of their events.
-if there were more positive events than negative events in a relationship between chosen and it looks like the remaining possible events can't "break" the relationship they will form an unbreakable bond even before you see the last of their events.
And one addendum for this and it concerns distortions is that the initial distortion can be a relationship event if the one of the vulnerabilities distorted is a core. So for example, if you perform Negotiation which is the morality/dignity distortion on a core morality chosen, it will trigger a relationship event and just like core vulnerabilities and minor vulnerabilities, whether the event is negative or positive depends if the chosen with minor vulnerability was distorted first
With all this said, knowing all of this is really helpful since you can really have it work for you in some ways.
Like, say you wanted an unbreakable bond in the end but needed that early EE bonus from from the negative event? then you can just plan it out where the initial relationship will be negative and then make the rest positive and still have your way.
Alternatively you can have them form an unbreakable bond early and have the rest of the events be negative just to rake in huge EE or to keep things saucy since they love each no matter what now
Either way I hope all of this helps out!
Edit: That's clearly what you said. The wording for Distortions just puts my brain in a sleeper hold. For some reason it's difficult for me to understand that Morality/Dignity distortion means leaving those two vulnerabilities alone.
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- Mar 20, 2019
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Lmaoo Oh no worries! To be honest I still trip things up myself every now and again, i feel like the only reason I remember is seeing it pop up in-Game so much haha
Well I will fight my first superior chosen any tips ? I have two forsaken trained and the tempted is her sister. Maybe I'm trying eat something to big for me.
Also anyone know how capture rampage. Last time did a run on lasy day causing a rampage didnt do anything to break
I love this game more the more I play it. The sheer number of variations within the scenes associated with each action, based on how corrupted the participants are, really does make up quite a bit for them being on a 4-round loop that you will inevitably see over and over again during a long capture. It is still a bit counterintuitive to think that overachieving in the scoring system comes with the 'reward' of having to wait longer for the next round to start and not much else.
I'm still a bit wigged out by the inconsistent tone of the 'Pummel' continuum of events. Sometimes its just a bit of anal on the side of fairly straightforward gangbang fare, and other times its cartoonish hentai orifice destruction nonsense. For the first part the label 'sodomize' fits well enough, but for the second sort that doesn't seem to really match. There is some cbt for the boys in additional to rectal obliteration, and I think it is pretty telling that the action is renamed 'torture' for them, since you wouldn't want to confuse things regarding their 'non-torture' anal sex from inseminate. Setting aside the semantics of the labels, I honestly can't tell if the content is supposed to be shocking/horrifying or darkly humorous, or both at different times. The sin collection event where chosen take turns attempting to assist each others' suicides is pretty effective gallows humor, but ultimately, the subject of 'suicidal urges following rape-induced PTSD' isn't particularly funny, nor especially sexy. It does make for effective horror, but mostly its just depressing. The peacefulness of the Drain punisher is the icing on the depression cake for getting bummed out about the fictional scenario. Now that I've had a look through it all I'll probably just Tempt or Negotiate the rest of the confidence-cores.
For all that the sadder elements don't suit my tastes, the framework of the game system is pretty inspirational and I can't help but wonder how I would would rewrite Pummel to be something like 'Spank' and the confidence breaks to be various stages of SM submission rather than spiraling into suicidal despair--given the opportunity. Assuming there is ever even an opportunity, i wouldn't even think about it until it was near final build so I wouldn't have to redo it for new content later. I'd really like to put together a Kudarizaka Guardrail-style total conversion of this with Morality: Arousal/Taint for fornication and being seeded, Innocence: Aphrodisiac/Pleasure, Confidence: Spank/Submission, and Dignity: Shame/Exposure (as an offhand first-draft). Of course I know squatt about Java and haven't got the time anyway, so that's just a pipedream.
Ongoing Suggestions:
-Make retreat available all the time without the tech upgrade, and without capturing, with no bonus obviously. Otherwise, put a quick-load button or a return-to-main-menu button on the combat screen so a missed button click doesn't require quitting and relaunching the game
-Print the Vulnerabilities chart next to the current damage chart in battle, and all three chosens' charts next to the 'overall corruption progress chart' in the info panel. Failing that at least put an indicator for which vulnerability is minor on the overall corruption chart, in additional the +2 symbol indicating the cores
-An option to auto-complete rounds quickly when 'do nothing' is the only button besides 'examine'. Sitting around with nothing to do but wank is great when I'm not jonesing to progress the campaign
I'm still a bit wigged out by the inconsistent tone of the 'Pummel' continuum of events. Sometimes its just a bit of anal on the side of fairly straightforward gangbang fare, and other times its cartoonish hentai orifice destruction nonsense. For the first part the label 'sodomize' fits well enough, but for the second sort that doesn't seem to really match. There is some cbt for the boys in additional to rectal obliteration, and I think it is pretty telling that the action is renamed 'torture' for them, since you wouldn't want to confuse things regarding their 'non-torture' anal sex from inseminate. Setting aside the semantics of the labels, I honestly can't tell if the content is supposed to be shocking/horrifying or darkly humorous, or both at different times. The sin collection event where chosen take turns attempting to assist each others' suicides is pretty effective gallows humor, but ultimately, the subject of 'suicidal urges following rape-induced PTSD' isn't particularly funny, nor especially sexy. It does make for effective horror, but mostly its just depressing. The peacefulness of the Drain punisher is the icing on the depression cake for getting bummed out about the fictional scenario. Now that I've had a look through it all I'll probably just Tempt or Negotiate the rest of the confidence-cores.
For all that the sadder elements don't suit my tastes, the framework of the game system is pretty inspirational and I can't help but wonder how I would would rewrite Pummel to be something like 'Spank' and the confidence breaks to be various stages of SM submission rather than spiraling into suicidal despair--given the opportunity. Assuming there is ever even an opportunity, i wouldn't even think about it until it was near final build so I wouldn't have to redo it for new content later. I'd really like to put together a Kudarizaka Guardrail-style total conversion of this with Morality: Arousal/Taint for fornication and being seeded, Innocence: Aphrodisiac/Pleasure, Confidence: Spank/Submission, and Dignity: Shame/Exposure (as an offhand first-draft). Of course I know squatt about Java and haven't got the time anyway, so that's just a pipedream.
Ongoing Suggestions:
-Make retreat available all the time without the tech upgrade, and without capturing, with no bonus obviously. Otherwise, put a quick-load button or a return-to-main-menu button on the combat screen so a missed button click doesn't require quitting and relaunching the game
-Print the Vulnerabilities chart next to the current damage chart in battle, and all three chosens' charts next to the 'overall corruption progress chart' in the info panel. Failing that at least put an indicator for which vulnerability is minor on the overall corruption chart, in additional the +2 symbol indicating the cores
-An option to auto-complete rounds quickly when 'do nothing' is the only button besides 'examine'. Sitting around with nothing to do but wank is great when I'm not jonesing to progress the campaign
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- Mar 20, 2019
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It does depend what you're looking for in a forsaken, some time ago someone said that the forsaken training is sort of like relearning the game all over again and to be honest I agree a bit haha, at least in terms of what kind of headspace you want to put yourself in
Negotiaion and Aversion are really good distortions and my favorite ones personally, but they have their own drawbacks and strengths, compared to other distortions and having no distortion at all even.
Aversion is good for hard hitting and stable forsaken, one of the their traits besides the Hate/Inju bonus is that during training, as long as they consent, the only corruption value that will increase is their disgrace.
Which basically means they'll rack up expertise really easily since you can do really hard hitting training actions on them as long as they agree, which is great!
The tradeoff however, is if that training action is something you force them to, it'll raise their obedience quite a bit and since Aversion requires breaking down their confidence already, often times Aversion forsaken will have low stamina regen unless they had core confidence and maybe significant confidence as chosen.
On top of that, a lot of the deviancy actions will be refused since their innocence wasn't really touched much as a chosen.
Besides all that, having a bonus to Hate/INJU is a really great and their defiler ability is fantastic as well if used skillfully enough.
If you want a forsaken that hits really hard, I reccomend going for this distortion.
And you can offset the stamina regen issue, either by raising their max stamin or raising their stamina regen back when their chosen. Its why I always try to keep a high level forsaken with that punisher ability
Negotiation are a bit similiar but quite different to Aversion in terms of the drawbacks/work arounds.
Their ability ensures you have really good stamina regen as long as hostility so you won't have to worry about them taking time to recover.
The tradeoff, however; is that the such low hostility means you'll probably need to spend training them to motivate them, since a lot of times their motivation is low enough they won't flip out easily but that also means the only to to restore motivation or spend a day training them. And if the chosen team has a loved one, that motivation cost will be even higher
To be honest, I really like this concept despite it being a pain sometimes since a lot of times motivation isn't really a factor for forsaken since hostility is average to high in most cases, and the concept of spending a day training these negotiation forsaken feels like a call-back to negotiating truces with them as a chosen. But maybe that's just me
One of the benefits for these kind of forsaken lies in the nature of being able to have such a high obedience and that is, they'll do pretty much anything you want them to, especially if you have a few of their friends as consent bonuses. Often times it will be very hard to get a distortion forsaken to do things outside their corruption values without breaking them in a sense.
Negotiation forsaken on the other hand, will do just about anything you want them to, raids, grand concerts, you name it. And with their trait, they'll regen full stamina in only a day or two. The only thing you need to watch out for is that hostility problem I mentioned earlier, but negotiation is easily my favorite, mechanic-wise and flavor wise.
If you want a forsaken that can bounce back quickly and very malleable on top of doing good damage with the PLEA and INJU buff, then I would say go for Negotiation! And similiarly to Aversion, I use max stamina drain or INJU increase on these forsaken, and if I plan making use of their breeder ability I use stamina regen on them to offset the stamina loss for having the higher hostility
And both forsaken are viable at varying levels of disgrace but they do really well as "Boss Forsaken" for the end game of a loop, as well as in the beginning if you're trying to break a t2 really early (mostly Confidence)
Tempted forsaken and Rampancy forsaken each have their own perks and uses as well that I can go into but to keep it short,
Rampancy forsaken are really good early on when you don't have a lot of forsaken to cover for the different stages for the loop, you do have to worry about the motivation drain, especially when you start filling your forsaken ranks out, I wouldn't recommend having a lot of them for this reason, or at least not many high hostility ones. using a breeder that reduces hostilty is recommended if you want a few of them
I haven't tried out the new tempted defiler but it really sounds like a step up from before
and although their obedience can't be raised beyond 30% to keep their abilities, you can keep them in-line with their friends and loved ones, on top of that, if you use a loyal hypnotist on them it should help out with their training consent quite abit.
- Mar 20, 2019
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for capturing rampage each turn of rampage damages their resolve a bit and It increases with each HATE level I believe, I recommend using a Impregnation commander with a lot of turns to raise that surround as much as you can, even better with completion since you don't have to worry about them exploding like negotiation or aversion, also a defiler with inseminate will also be good, possibly a synthesis one with INJU as the suppressor.
If the resolve isn't be damaged at all from the rampage I would recommend uploading the save here and letting CSDev know it might be a bug.
Oh! I forgot to say but you can defeat two chosen with aversion in the final battle, you can do the whole time if you want to even, but it might be a problem if they distorted at different times and have different thresholds, still possible, just a bit more difficult
May I ask how. Im getting them both in an orgy with well over +15 turns over it. I've tried to lower their resolve as well beforehand to 30% and when the orgy occurs one of them resolve breaks. the other two get kicked out and dont lose any resolve. Also dont they have to distort at same time since its an orgy requiring 3x
Edit: picture proof
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- Mar 20, 2019
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If you can, could you upload a screenshot or even better the save itself? It should be in an instant as long as the turn requirements were met
if you're meeting the requirements and its still doing so, it may be bug
Adding one in my edit, I believe its checking for first one, then Axiom runs away, thus breaking orgy and not allowing for the check on Prayer
Okay good news. I figured it out, but its super jank. The way I did it originally was that I did Axiom and Prayer in a + and then orgy with reaper. For some reason that only breaks Axiom. BUT if I do Axiom and Reaper doing the + and then finish the orgy with Prayer it causes the break. This also occured on 10 turns so it wasnt a high turn issue. I believe that its probably a bug in code checking who resolve breaks i guess? But I figured it out I guess
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I'm glad you managed to find a solution!
But yeah just looking at the screenshot I definitely understand what you mean, that is bug, if you still have that save slot, could you upload it here? I'll let CSDev know about the problem and it'll be fixed either in a bugfix or the next release
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