Java Corrupted Saviors [Release 70b] [CSDev]

[fenyx]

Weird thing: Maneuver doesnt work anymore against an angel + whatever (at least maneuver from splendor)

 

[LeranS]

I've been trying to figure out how this could happen, and I haven't managed to reproduce it yet. If you (or somebody else) can provide a save from the last day before the deadline where you can fulfill the condition but still have it end up like this, I'd greatly appreciate being able to take a look at it.

Here's mine, if you'd like. Thought it would be an easy way to fulfill the condition by doing the T3 broken core/unbroken minor thing, didn't seem to work. To reproduce, load the day 20 save, go fight Vassal with built commander, click pummel->caress->grind->humiliate, then capture Spice when she arrives, then do w/e until fight ends. The break scene gives about 67 energy, the requirement is 40. Gives me the same message on Vassal at day 21, -1 day left.

 

[Yddrasil]

At any given time, there can be multipliers which apply only to some of the 8 damage types, multipliers which apply only to some of the 3 Chosen, multipliers which apply only in certain combat situations (surrounded, captured, neither, or depending on whether an ally is surrounded or captured), and so on. Showing all of them at once would often fill up the entire screen. That's fine for a debug tool, but not for something that's meant to be used by the general playerbase. I'm completely at a loss for how it should look.

I wont claim to be a UI designer, and I personally would be 100% okay with it just being a debug wall of text that lists everything individually, but I would think, as a toggleable option, something like sorting the bonuses/maluses by categories:

PAIN [''''      ] (    0 +    46 =    46) only a hurting a little
    (46 BASE + 0 ANGST) * (1 ITEMS) * (1 FORSAKEN) / (1 LOOP) / (1 SPECIES) / (1 ALLIES)

would already be significantly better than nothing. The player should be able to find what is contributing to the ITEMS, SPECIES and ALLIES portion, the LOOP portion should be self explanatory, but this would more clearly show the effects of using different forsaken and forsaken actions and what is the base damage beyond a few ----|-- on the character page.

I think the best solution for Aversion as a whole is to rework its bonus. The other Distortions are all basically triggered on the player's demand, with the exception of Rampancy, whose entire gimmick is basically "You get more EE, but the Chosen become harder to deal with." Aversion either needs to remove the downside for triggering (maybe by having fleeing Chosen still count for turning Defiler/Defiler+ actions into Defiler+/Orgy actions), or else provide a much stronger bonus in exchange for removing the subject from the battle early. Player input is very welcome here.

Maybe have fleeing Chosen provide a (possibly compounding per level or per turns fled) damage bonus or a temporary base damage increase against non fleeing Chosens, which scales off of achievement level, while still having it weaker than a full orgy (it will naturally be anyways since its a 3-damage type defiler+)? I think having downsides to Aversion itself is fine, just that having downsides to the achievement is probably not as fine, and this maintains the need to trigger the Orgy at the right moment as a consideration for gameplay while making it not entirely negative to have triggered Aversion.

 

[Yddrasil]

Also has anyone ever tried a no forsaken run, possibly using Inevitability and Futility? The idea sounds very appealing conceptually but every time I start a run like that I remember why I never want to play with Inevitability. I don't know the multipliers on Futility, but I doubt that even with a bunch of despair bonuses this will ever be as close to as strong as just about any other starter item and their upgrade, but I would love to be proven wrong.

 

[siowy]

not sure whether it's just me, but playing against angels just feels annoying with all their adaptations. not fun or challenging. just annoying.

 

[aumhs]

Also has anyone ever tried a no forsaken run, possibly using Inevitability and Futility? The idea sounds very appealing conceptually but every time I start a run like that I remember why I never want to play with Inevitability. I don't know the multipliers on Futility, but I doubt that even with a bunch of despair bonuses this will ever be as close to as strong as just about any other starter item and their upgrade, but I would love to be proven wrong.

You need at least some forsaken to deal with devil choosen.
I did consider a despair-distort-everyone run, which would limit me to a few bosses who can be deployed while despair distorted, but I think I'll wait until the game is closer to done before doing that.
I'm considering single-distortion runsin general for when the game is closer to done, where everyone gets the same distortion. Some distortions are obviously easier than others.

 

[zyty1221]

I'm giving Corrupted Saviors another crack. The game is honestly too complex on the strategic side for me I think but I have a soft spot for it and the "power fantasy" it represents.

I think the bunch of Chosen that I've got with this new campaign are a bit tricky. One of them came almost set up perfectly for Rampancy distortion. I'm not really sure if I should go ahead with trying to distort them though. I feel like I might make it more challenging for myself.



Is it worth trying? Or will it makes things far more challenging than they should be for me in my newbish state?

I'm using tomorrow's newspaper but even then I'm not doing too great and its already day 14 with no real breaks. I'm not sure how I would go about getting the 15 round surround.

 

[fenyx]

I'm giving Corrupted Saviors another crack. The game is honestly too complex on the strategic side for me I think but I have a soft spot for it and the "power fantasy" it represents.

I think the bunch of Chosen that I've got with this new campaign are a bit tricky. One of them came almost set up perfectly for Rampancy distortion. I'm not really sure if I should go ahead with trying to distort them though. I feel like I might make it more challenging for myself.

View attachment 4617569

Is it worth trying? Or will it makes things far more challenging than they should be for me in my newbish state?

I'm using tomorrow's newspaper but even then I'm not doing too great and its already day 14 with no real breaks. I'm not sure how I would go about getting the 15 round surround.

Distorting is sometimes easier and sometimes harder

Distorting them all in the same distortion is easier, if you go for tempt, negotiation or aversion, but you gotta be careful that your strategy works in the last day
Having a rampaging may be easier , but having a rampaging chosen + averted chosen may fuck you up in the long run
Distortion gives you a nice challenge, if you can bring them to total break consistently.Also, learning to distort is your next step in the learning curve of this game.

 

[God of Debauchery]

I just realized something.
This is the only thing I have ever had a pleasant time with in Java.
Usually I avoid Java in all regards because it's usually a buggy mess that absolutely hogs resources, but this game is the only exception I can think of.

 

[zyty1221]

So I managed to "win" my first loop and get all 3 chosen as forsaken. I didn't manage to get every t4 broken, but I got 3 on each (drain for 2 of them was dragging behind a lot).

I've been trying to follow the forsaken training guides on the wiki, but I'm lost tbh. I tried a forsaken out in a battle on day 8 and it went okay? I guess I was hoping for some ridiculous reason that it would do crazy things like help me get breaks really early.

Any tips going forward?

 

[fenyx]

So I managed to "win" my first loop and get all 3 chosen as forsaken. I didn't manage to get every t4 broken, but I got 3 on each (drain for 2 of them was dragging behind a lot).

I've been trying to follow the forsaken training guides on the wiki, but I'm lost tbh. I tried a forsaken out in a battle on day 8 and it went okay? I guess I was hoping for some ridiculous reason that it would do crazy things like help me get breaks really early.

Any tips going forward?

forsaken get stronger the more you train them, so later you will do crazy things.
You need something called hard working publicist or notorious publicist
the best is a undead tempted, train her to do wild damage

 

[aumhs]

Most of the time, forsaken are better when distorted. You want to stack as many damage increases as possible, and the distortion is a 50% damage boost (for the 2 damage types associtated with that distortion).
The basic chosen from the first few loops make usable forsaken, that are helpfull for the first few loops, but stronger chosen make forsaken that are a lot better.
And you absolutely don't need hard working publicist/notoriouls publicist. They make your forsaken a lot stronger, but aren't necessary.

The damage ouput will also depend a lot on their disgrace value, and on how many different types of damage they do. (And what type. INJU damage is easier to stack than EXPO for example, due to how the modifiers work.)

EDIT: The most important choosen to turn into forsaken early tend to be the ones like "Up to +XX% victim HATE damage as Forsaken" (and the equivalent for the other damage types). You keep them at low disgrace (don't break dignity if possible), and then use them to break other choosen, who will then do more damage.

Math example: Let's say you distort a superior chosen (+50% damage) with Aversion (+50% HATE and INJU damage), and broke her MOR and CON with forsaken that increase the relevant damage type by 20%. You now have a forsaken dealing 270% damage in HATE and INJU, due to how multipliers stack (1.5*1.5*1.2), if you set her to deal those 2 damage types. And that's before the multiplier from training.

 

[fenyx]

Most of the time, forsaken are better when distorted. You want to stack as many damage increases as possible, and the distortion is a 50% damage boost (for the 2 damage types associtated with that distortion).
The basic chosen from the first few loops make usable forsaken, that are helpfull for the first few loops, but stronger chosen make forsaken that are a lot better.
And you absolutely don't need hard working publicist/notoriouls publicist. They make your forsaken a lot stronger, but aren't necessary.

The damage ouput will also depend a lot on their disgrace value, and on how many different types of damage they do. (And what type. INJU damage is easier to stack than EXPO for example, due to how the modifiers work.)

EDIT: The most important choosen to turn into forsaken early tend to be the ones like "Up to +XX% victim HATE damage as Forsaken" (and the equivalent for the other damage types). You keep them at low disgrace (don't break dignity if possible), and then use them to break other choosen, who will then do more damage.

Math example: Let's say you distort a superior chosen (+50% damage) with Aversion (+50% HATE and INJU damage), and broke her MOR and CON with forsaken that increase the relevant damage type by 20%. You now have a forsaken dealing 270% damage in HATE and INJU, due to how multipliers stack (1.5*1.5*1.2), if you set her to deal those 2 damage types. And that's before the multiplier from training.

and then, you have my notorious forsaken with 800% trauma damage, or my 1100% trauma damage from my game before this one

Notorious (or hardworking i confuse them) Increases by a factor every time you parasitize another chosen

 

[aumhs]

The trauma multiplier makes forsaken that already do enough circumstance damage extremly good, but it doesn't help much if you're still struggling to deal enough circumstance damage.
I think focusing too much on the trauma multiplier when teaching someone who still has trouble to do enough circumstance damage with forsaken is not that helpfull. Learn to build forsaken that can reliably get to, or at least close enough to, 10k damage in one surround first.

 

[fenyx]

The trauma multiplier makes forsaken that already do enough circumstance damage extremly good, but it doesn't help much if you're still struggling to deal enough circumstance damage.
I think focusing too much on the trauma multiplier when teaching someone who still has trouble to do enough circumstance damage with forsaken is not that helpfull. Learn to build forsaken that can reliably get to, or at least close enough to, 10k damage in one surround first.

they already get to 10.000 at the begining...that is not helpful at the later part of the game
You dont even need forsaken at the begining the normal commander will do it just fine

 

[aumhs]

You're teaching someone who barely beat loop 1 how to build forsaken for loop 20. I don't think that's the best way to go teaching the game.

 

[fenyx]

You're teaching someone who barely beat loop 1 how to build forsaken for loop 20. I don't think that's the best way to go teaching the game.

I told him a truth and you decided to butt in, i dont think your way of teaching is the best way either but I didnt say anything

 

[zyty1221]

The trauma multiplier makes forsaken that already do enough circumstance damage extremly good, but it doesn't help much if you're still struggling to deal enough circumstance damage.
I think focusing too much on the trauma multiplier when teaching someone who still has trouble to do enough circumstance damage with forsaken is not that helpfull. Learn to build forsaken that can reliably get to, or at least close enough to, 10k damage in one surround first.

Yeah this is kind of where I'm at. My biggest issue is the early game. While i've done breaks before at day 10 or 11 I feel like I "waste" so much time getting things ready and I sort of have to rush to get the t4 breaks done (which is why I didn't manage to get all 4 on everyone, only 3). So where I'm at now is like there is this cool "new" mechanic in the Forsaken and I guess I'm meant to be using them but me faffing about trying to work it out has led to me falling behind again in the loop I'm doing.

I have a save at the end of my first loop and I'm considering going back and approaching it a little differently.

 

[zargal]

For your first run with Forsaken I'd focus on two things.
First, how much do you want them to cost? I'd suggest one around 6EE and another 10-15EE. To get there you'll need to raise their disgrace via training (the auto training for this does not use stamina but is slow.) Normally you can't lower disgrace but I'm guessing this won't be a problem if you didn't break all the T4s.
Secondly, what fighting style should they use? For cheap, weak forsaken you only want one of the single or double styles and I'd suggest H,I,H/E or I/E since Hate and Injury are easiest to build and Expo makes other Chosen more vulnerable.
Remember, Forsaken should each fill specific roles on your team, particularly to fill in gaps where commanders suck. At the start, there's a glaring lack in viable 6-15EE commanders, so focus on fixing that.
Also, Forsaken tend to have longer surrounds than Commanders, so you may have to focus on only two Chosen at a time in L2 (this gets better once you gets Forsaken who can release.)
If you ever are ever inclined to retry L1, I highly recommend distorting at least one via tempt since they can cheaply hit 3 areas, plus you only have to break two T4s on them. Congrats on getting past L1, you have made it over the biggest hurdle.

 

[zyty1221]

For your first run with Forsaken I'd focus on two things.
First, how much do you want them to cost? I'd suggest one around 6EE and another 10-15EE. To get there you'll need to raise their disgrace via training (the auto training for this does not use stamina but is slow.) Normally you can't lower disgrace but I'm guessing this won't be a problem if you didn't break all the T4s.
Secondly, what fighting style should they use? For cheap, weak forsaken you only want one of the single or double styles and I'd suggest H,I,H/E or I/E since Hate and Injury are easiest to build and Expo makes other Chosen more vulnerable.
Remember, Forsaken should each fill specific roles on your team, particularly to fill in gaps were commanders suck. At the start, there's a glaring lack in viable 6-15EE commanders, so focus on fixing that.
Also, Forsaken tend to have longer surrounds than Commanders, so you may have to focus on only two Chosen at a time in L2 (this gets better once you gets Forsaken who can release.)
If you ever are ever inclined to retry L1, I highly recommend distorting at least one via tempt since they can cheaply hit 3 areas, plus you only have to break two T4s on them. Congrats on getting past L1, you have made it over the biggest hurdle.

Thanks, these are good tips. I'm tempted to start again with what I know now.