Others Corruption of Champions II [v0.7.15] [Savin/Salamander Studios]

[Quintilus]

Bro, Tobs wrote that scene, and presumably Savin proofread it before putting it into the game.

Bro, none of them are native english speakers.

 

[muschi26]

Bro, none of them are native english speakers.

That’s no excuse. It’s their job as the writers of this scene and the heads of the game in general to make sure that the texts which make it into the game have a certain level of polish. People might disagree about the artistic merit of their writing, but things like grammar and spelling are non-negotiable, and that’s their view on the matter as well: the event submission guide makes a point to say that everything must be in American English, and Wsan in his blurb on writing mentions that Savin is a stickler for grammar.

Moreover, “I’m not a native” has no meaning on its own. If you aren’t a native English speaker, you can be in one of two situations. The first is if you’re fluent. In this case, you’re on the same level as a native speaker, and should be treated accordingly. If a native speaker comes to you and says, “This isn’t how I would’ve written it,” you are wholly justified in replying, “But that’s how I want to write it,” because your opinion on style etc. is just as valid as a native’s. In return, you must be held to the same standards as a native. The other situation is if you’re still learning English. In this case, you forfeit every right to dismiss criticism. If you’re learning, and a native speaker says, “This isn’t how I would’ve written it,” you cannot simply disagree and move on. If you’re a learner, then natives know better than you, and therefore you must listen if they ever criticize your style, word usage, etc. This is why “not being a native speaker” is meaningless: if you are offering a product, a written work like this, and you want your opinion to be regarded as equally valid to that of a native speaker’s, you must agree to be judged as a native speaker.

 

[Quintilus]

That’s no excuse. It’s their job as the writers of this scene and the heads of the game in general to make sure that the texts which make it into the game have a certain level of polish. People might disagree about the artistic merit of their writing, but things like grammar and spelling are non-negotiable, and that’s their view on the matter as well: the event submission guide makes a point to say that everything must be in American English, and Wsan in his blurb on writing mentions that Savin is a stickler for grammar.

Moreover, “I’m not a native” has no meaning on its own. If you aren’t a native English speaker, you can be in one of two situations. The first is if you’re fluent. In this case, you’re on the same level as a native speaker, and should be treated accordingly. If a native speaker comes to you and says, “This isn’t how I would’ve written it,” you are wholly justified in replying, “But that’s how I want to write it,” because your opinion on style etc. is just as valid as a native’s. In return, you must be held to the same standards as a native. The other situation is if you’re still learning English. In this case, you forfeit every right to dismiss criticism. If you’re learning, and a native speaker says, “This isn’t how I would’ve written it,” you cannot simply disagree and move on. If you’re a learner, then natives know better than you, and therefore you must listen if they ever criticize your style, word usage, etc. This is why “not being a native speaker” is meaningless: if you are offering a product, a written work like this, and you want your opinion to be regarded as equally valid to that of a native speaker’s, you must agree to be judged as a native speaker.

First of, cockney is an english or not?
Second of, you really think some of the developers are bothers to read shit that are pushed there by """""""""approved""""""""" contributors? There are a case where sex scene for some char was already present scene but with replaced names. Someone noticed it since one name in one sentence wasnt be replaced for a new one (which means whoever was copied it, tobs IIRC, doesnt even know about find and replace option, that present in every text editor, even in a fucking notepad).
Third of, are you serious right now, trying to find sense in this thing that are called game?
And lastly, but not on importance

 

[destroyerofassholes]

Bro, none of them are native english speakers.

I'm pretty sure there's a post of Tobs on the forums where he absolutely shits on someone for his writing mistakes. The guy he was shitting on just said "I'm not a native speaker" and Tobs got even more pissed at that as he himself isn't one and yet still speaks amazing English and so on.

 

[muschi26]

First of, cockney is an english or not?

It is. It’s a dialect in the UK.

Second of, you really think some of the developers are bothers to read shit that are pushed there by """""""""approved""""""""" contributors? There are a case where sex scene for some char was already present scene but with replaced names. Someone noticed it since one name in one sentence wasnt be replaced for a new one (which means whoever was copied it, tobs IIRC, doesnt even know about find and replace option, that present in every text editor, even in a fucking notepad).

I would sincerely hope someone else at least skims over his stuff. If not Savin, then Wsan or one of the other staff members.

Also, I still haven’t gotten over that copy-paste incident, since I can’t imagine ever doing something like that myself, let alone as a professional writer. On top of being incredibly lazy, it just robs both characters of any semblance of identity. If you think Miko and Mai are so interchangeable as to warrant copy-pasting text between the two of them, then you shouldn’t have made them separate characters to begin with, and instead combined them into one. However, if you truly want to write two characters, in my mind it would be even more important, to let each character express herself differently in each scene, to accentuate her uniqueness, especially if you’re having both of them go through similar experiences.

Third of, are you serious right now, trying to find sense in this thing that are called game?

Not only is it a game, but one that’s earning 30k a month, I’ll have you remember. It is serious business.

And lastly, but not on importance

Fair enough if you say that on your personal Twitter account, but again, this is a text-based product, written in English for an English-speaking audience. It’s not the same ballpark.

 

[Quintilus]

for an English-speaking audience

Not at all.
From a regular thread visitors here I know for sure there are one dude from france, one from spain, one from some asian country (bangladesh or china or something from there), several from post ussr block and...I think two....which can be considered a native english speakers from various english speaking countries.
Even here, on a pirate christian porn game forum, native inglish speakers that """""play""""" in this game are in minority.

Im sure on official forum correlation are different, but I doubt that major part of it is a native english speakers even there. So ehhhh...inglish si si mi amor, avoir du gout mie pour.

 

[muschi26]

Not at all.
From a regular thread visitors here I know for sure there are one dude from france, one from spain, one from some asian country (bangladesh or china or something from there), several from post ussr block and...I think two....which can be considered a native english speakers from various english speaking countries.
Even here, on a pirate christian porn game forum, native inglish speakers that """""play""""" in this game are in minority.

Im sure on official forum correlation are different, but I doubt that major part of it is a native english speakers even there. So ehhhh...inglish si si mi amor, avoir du gout mie pour.

That’s both anecdotal evidence and a very small sample size, but there’s also a misunderstanding here: you should be at the level of a native speaker, or close thereto, in order to write and sell a text-based product like this, but the same isn’t true for those consuming the product—people who consume the product in English are still an “English-speaking audience”, native or not.

 

[MarcusDBlack]

avoir du gout mie pour.

have taste crumb for ????
And to be fair, the misspellings of the mist are tolerable enough for the visuals and story to pull it through.

 

[jfmherokiller]

decided to try to follow up on my crazy idea of adding a giant penny to the wayfort.
This is conceptually what I have.

Topline: In Malloch we trust
Left Text: Balls
Face: Malloch in side view
year: 1247

If I was going to even attempt some kind of art thing It would be svg based.

the 1247 is mostly pulled from random.

 

[fetishgirl]

Point of order: Brienne isn't beating Kiyoko, at least on any official polls. Kiyoko won and by quite a bit.

As I mentioned before, I'm pretty sure the whole "Tobs wrote Brienne in a rape scene in a jealous rage" thing has no real weight behind it.

Pretty sure Tobs just wrote a "normal for Tobs" scene and Wsan didn't like it.

Tobs writing his own way without any real thought to matching the game's tone is 100% on brand for him anyway.

The whole thing has been a way bigger deal here than Wsan has ever made it seem.

Sorry for late response.

Thanks for correcting me on that its been a while so wasn't sure.

I think it does when there are quotes from ToBS himself not being fond of Brienne's character from the discord. I think it was Kronen that posted the quote of ToBS finding Brienne's situation morally questionable as ToBS like to bring his strange sense of morality to a game where you are meant to corrupt characters.

It was pretty bad by ToBS standards not all of his content is edgy in fact early Kiyoko and Bath sheep girl are pretty fluffy.

We do know he is petty and spiteful considering his opinion on characters like Hirrud. If there wasn't historical evidence of his behavior I would be more inclined to believe your point of view.

That is because Wsan isn't in the habit of chewing out his colleagues in public. The fact Wsan was upset at all is very telling to me at least. However the scene by itself isn't an issue but in context with previous behavior and comments I think it is.

 

[Deleted member 770309]

Been gone from this game for a bit is there really a rape seen for brie.

 

[undyingrevenant]

snip (kitsune comments focus)

As a at first neutral party that originally got coc2 in large part due to being tempted by "devoted kitsune wife/family sim" on the tin, and also accepted the "it's a different culture you wouldn't understand" defense longer than I should have, I'll try giving a breakdown of why it, being generous, has issues, story and #itsjustasmutgamebro wise.

The prologue is fine, great even. Kiyokos surprisingly stable for someone that's been completely isolated for enough years to originally go from being a teen to elderly, for a kitsune(!) at least and then has someone knock on her door, but we'll ignore that. You're introduced to their culture, begin as food with benefits and wind up spending enough time a relationship happens. Plenty of non smut relationship building fluff scenes, you love to see it. Before or during this you have your first kid, kinu.

Here we're introduced to the first issue, kiyoko is an abusive, overly strict parent. During the time you see, she pushes kinu to do exactly what she wants her to, only accepts perfection but then she lies to her telling her she failed when she didn't, pushes her into a coma(!) is angry whenever she's asked for help, and leaves a majority of the work handling the other kids to kinu.

During the time you don't see, in tobs novella, after kinu finishes making food for the family, kiyoko comes home for a hour, finds out she wasn't perfectly stealthy in a neighboring town, so slaps her in the face and lectures her. She also has zero interest in what kinu wants and is bluntly mentioned as perfectly willing to separate her from whoever she loves so she can get with someone *suitable*. There's not a character arc with development where she realizes she's been horrible besides one apology scene that happens some time before she slaps her. This does not lead to character development or a turn on.

In the course of this we're chucked a "what a twist" that upon freeing them, there was a time skip of several years for them. Was it because keros wanted to be quirky and require a cost or forced for plot, it is a mystery. The observer forces in with this a forced time limitation that regardless of whether you had one kid or 500 with Kiyoko, whether you visited every single night or not, that you weren't there often to begin with and then weren't there for several years, leading to either form of kinu having parental issues. Basically youre written as getting the amulet then Speedrunning to the den. Also kinu is now getting married to a decent enough farmer or a impotent idiot who writes poetry while his fiancee is almost r'ed and killed multiple times, and again I quote kiyoko "your opinion/input doesn't matter".

Getting to the den we have further issues. Why can't we communicate with any kitsune before the den? "Hello kurako/kitsune 54, before we bang, lady evergreen has had one of her enchanted items stolen by a kitsune, I would like to talk with your leader on your own terms to peacefully negotiate it's return please. Also I have this orb another kitsune group that I saved said I should seek her aid about, it has someone in it called kiyoko or something?"

After you are forced to non lethally doom slayer the entirety of the den so komari can say "oh yeah whatever here's the bag they were kinda dumb tbh", you gain general access to it. Takahiro greets you with "you fookin wat m8 I'll fookin bash yer ead in I don't have a problem I can't stop when I want" x6, and you also greet nakano, who talks about how dumb you are, then goes back to his paperwork, poetry and needing your assistance while you reminisce one shotting him.

In the den we have kohaku who people thought was cute until she had zero character development or relationship, miko and mai who you can get pregnant and never see the kid or get a relationship, can watch them bang takahiro though, kazuo who's been abandoned for years but you get nuked if you try to write anything for, yuzu and azami you can watch bang takahiro, rindo who you can be a sugar daddy for until someone better comes along like nakano (pfft), komari who stares off into the void mimicking the "why am I still here" meme during random chess games that tobs had art made of being young but that was just a prank bro, kinus farmer husband that's only there during her scenes or in the novella, and the new update kitsune I have no hope for. Also keros but apparently he doesn't care if his people are being attacked by another god so who gives af.

Back to kiyoko n kinu though, or rather just kinu, she's had the only content. She's had 2 gweyr-interlude type scenes now where she talks about having a cult with shadowy monsters attacking and burning down your home, and their leader threatening to gouge out her i's and r her while the PC does a "oh, honey..." And pats her head. Kiyoko and mai and miko intervene at the very end of the first. That's it. After that, she (royalty who has been attacked prior) has to go cross continent, and she gets farmer mercs and a merchant as escort. Nakano, glory seeker samurai who is her fiancee, nowhere. All the wandering kitsune, nowhere. Miko, mai, komari, nowhere. Keros, nowhere. Mallach helps her out after she barely gets out via a teleporter. The PC goes "oh honey..." Again while kinu talks about how strong and independent she is and how she'll have her training arc by the next encounter.

Honestly, even if all the kitsune were friendly and welcomed you, all that's enough of a problem. When they all call you outsider and barbarian but are incompetent, when kiyoko says your opinion doesn't matter but is a awful and abusive mother and partner, when neither of kinus fiancees ever do anything to help her besides in the novella, when kinu is being written as a solo power fantasy dev insert while the PC and kiyoko get nothing and the PC is forced to not put their foot down and go lu bu on some dumb fencer fox that's being written to have a redemption arc, when half the smut is watching takahiro bang someone including side love interests while you fap in the corner, AND on top of all that and giving them priceless artifacts, saving their royalty, becoming partner(?) Glorified ho(?) Of said royalty, their god thinking you're cool enough to be buds with, they still do the barbarian/ outsider crap? No sorry, Japanese people and culture are far better than this and stereotypical portrayals of those far in the past would value honor, aid and loyalty with no betrayals, outsiderTM or no far more than this.

 

[Walk Cycle]

Been gone from this game for a bit is there really a rape seen for brie.

Spoiler: The scene in question

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Sorry about the wall of text and lack of formatting, that was a dirty copy/paste. Apparently it's played off as NTR but with how Brienne clearly didn't like it, it reads more like gang-rape than NTR.

 

[Skandranon]

Sorry for late response.

Thanks for correcting me on that its been a while so wasn't sure.

I think it does when there are quotes from ToBS himself not being fond of Brienne's character from the discord. I think it was Kronen that posted the quote of ToBS finding Brienne's situation morally questionable as ToBS like to bring his strange sense of morality to a game where you are meant to corrupt characters.

Tobs was praising Brienne for being a subtle example of corruption - and as I pointed out then, Wsan agrees with him (Wsan mentioned the only reason it doesn't give corruption points is because the PC might not know the result, even if the player does). They are on the same page.

It was pretty bad by ToBS standards not all of his content is edgy in fact early Kiyoko and Bath sheep girl are pretty fluffy.

Wasn't any worse than a bunch of kids getting bumped off, which he also wrote. It's not like Tobs can't do different things, but he clearly likes and gravitate towards the edge.

We do know he is petty and spiteful considering his opinion on characters like Hirrud. If this wasn't historical evidence of his behavior I would be more inclined to believe your point of view.

I don't know what you mean about Hirrud. Savin did Hirrud afaik.

That is because Wsan isn't in the habit of chewing out his colleagues in public. The fact Wsan was upset at all is very telling to me at least. However the scene by itself isn't an issue but in context with previous behavior and comments I think it is.

I mean, we can believe whatever we want, but its still basically inventing drama. Wsan never claimed Tobs did it to spite him, noone did in fact, and there's nothing to even be spiteful about. There's no reason for Tobs to be jealous of Brienne considering he has the more popular character.

The simpler and more likely explanation is...Tobs is Tobs and writes whatever Tobs wants without regards to how well it fits in.

Its what we talk about him doing basically all the time anyway...

 

[arls120]

Whoever wrote it is not native english speaker, for example.


Are you sure about that?

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I'm totally sure it's already been like 25 days doing tests and still without results.......... I guess I should keep trying so that one day I'll make it.

 

[Shiro15]

Snip

Piggybacking off this comment another issue with the Kistune content is it does not even work with in the rules of Tobs established universe. I've said this in an older post, but we know that Kiyoko has stayed young due to being trapped in the orb. Now this is fine as a premise, but falls apart once Kinu is born. As we see Kinu age up quickly. I know Kiyoko being a den mother is the reason she can give birth quickly, but it does not say anything about the children aging up at such a fast rate to my knowledge. We also know Kitsune's do not age up at that fast of a rate due Rindo's child with you, staying a child. So it is an effect of them being in the orb. So, if kinu is aging rapidly why isn't Kiyoko? Also if the orb has always aged Kiyoko up quickly why did she not die, due to old age? We know she's been trapped in their for 5 generations, as Komari has been punished by Keros for 5 generations.

This also brings us to the question of the Kitsune colony. After five generations, only Evergreen is aware of them. Which sure they are trying stay hidden to some degree, but they also make it clear they want to expand and be a successful colony. But this leads to another problem. They are wildly incompetent. How do you go 5 generations with out expanding or building up your colony? (They also relocated as Kiyoko's house is where the original colony started, but they relocated after the attack.) They live to be about 80-150 according to the codex. Which also makes their failures to progress all the more embarrassing, as if we low ball how long they have been here its about 100 years. As one generation for humans is 20 years. But I don't know if a generation for Kitsunes would be different seeing as they live for about twice our life span, so if we high ball it, then its been about 200 years.

Next why aren't their more people in the colony? 1/4th of the people you meet are descendants of Komari. The Sasuke wanna be, Farmer bro, Slutty shrine maid, and Bored shrine maid are all her descendants. Farmer bro is her great great grandson so Komari has kids. We know she was married and her husband passed away. But her kids have passed away as well? It certainly is possible. But this still bothers me to a degree since the Kitsunes live for such a long time. I figured some of Komari's children would still be alive, and not just her great great granddaughters/sons. (This what leads me to believe five generations means something different for the Kitsunes than it does for us. It is probably longer than even 200 years. which once again makes their failures more apparent.)The other seven are immigrants. ( I don't anything about the new girl as I haven't played the update) How are there so few Kitsunes in the colony? Especially with a race that's hyper-sexuality is comparable to Tanukis and Catgirls. Are they all inbreed?

It is possible others a migrating to the colony, and that's how they're avoiding inbreeding, but once again why aren't more coming to help. I know they mainland kistunes do not look to fondly on the colony and there's politics that our barbarian brains can't possibly understand. (Which is writer speak for I don't know how to write an actual compelling story about politics or I'm to lazy. Which I do not believe is true of Tobs. I'll shit on his writing quality, but he writes way more than anyone else on the team for better or worse.) But how is this even worthy of being called a colony. Even if we use U.S history as an example, the mayflower had 102 people on it. And half of them died on the trip over or in the first winter. Leaving only 50 people. The Kitsune could possibly avoid this problem by using the ways between to bring over Kitsunes quickly. So, the journey shouldn't be as dangerous as it is for us in real life. But once again this leads to the problem of why aren't they completely over running this land. Destroying Hawthorne. The only group that seems like it would have the man power to realistically fight back would be the frost elves, and possibly evergreen through her magic. (Though I doubt her magic is so powerful it could stop an army of 100 kitsune, seeing as she can't even deal with 11 kitsunes) The kitsune could completely dominate if they wanted to. They do not even have to really fear corruption from demons because of their natural resistance to it, and Keros having this whole communal soul thing going on. Honestly, the Kitsune's are a complete and total embarrassment. As half their problems should be easy to resolve, through the abilities they have.

This is so sad to me, because Tobs actually has a gold mine for a story idea. I honestly do not mind darker themes and the PC having to struggle for a happy ending or getting punished for not putting in effort. For example Kiyoko has been trapped for at least 100 years. Most people start going crazy after prolonged isolation. They develop dementia, anxiety, depression and all other sorts of mental health issues. Tobs really could have leaned into that with Kiyoko becoming this overbearing lover, who is afraid you won't come back. And after Kinu is born she could have directed all those anxieties at Kinu, which would lead to Kinu being emotionally abused. Kiyoko could've voiced her insecurities about her relationship with the champ and that could have led to kinu coming to resent us naturally through no fault of our own. This forces her to grow independent.

The Kitsunes distrusting us could be normal as well, due to the fact that the original colony was destroyed and Kiyoko was perceived killed in that very attack. Discount Sasuke could have a legitimate reason to hate us as his great great grandmother is being punished for failing to protect Kiyoko from these barbarians. He now knows what his fate will be if he fails. life as an undying spirit. He could even be working on a way to lay his grandmother to rest and restore honor to his clan.

And that's where we the champ comes in. We could help Kiyoko work through the trauma of being attacked and imprisoned all by herself for so many years. While the abuse of Kinu still isn't our fault we could help reconcile the deteriorating relationship the two have. I've said before but this could become three different paths. A rebellion path Kinu, an obedience path, or a harmony path. With harmony path being the happy ending, as Kiyoko learns to respect Kinu's ability to make her own decisions and Kinu comes to understand that Kiyoko is trying to help her and pass on the kitsune traditions to her in own way. She also could come to sympathize with her mothers past traumas. As before she meet you and gave birth to Kinu she would have spent most of her life alone. Rebellion being Kinu does things just to piss Kiyoko and you off. Maybe even kill Kiyoko and banish you from ever entering the Kitsune colony and becoming a permanent enemy. Or obedience where she is essentially broken, and just does what Kiyoko and you ask. This would be the only way to get incest for those who want that. I'm personally not a fan of this, and I know Tobs isn't either. He could make this lead to Kiyoko NTR the champ upon discovering this, and really make the sex scenes with kinu feel unfulfilling. Really lay into the player for being an actual scumbag.

You could also help Nakano lay Komari to rest. Go on a quest with him and the two you come to respect one another as warriors. This leads to Nakano becoming the official leader or be elevated to a position that is earned. This quest could lead to you influencing the policy's he will implement. Leading to him going full isolationist or opening up and working with foreigners. You can also get more influence over him by becoming keros's champion and helping the other Kitsune. (This also would give you additional dialogue choices based on how many and who you helped.)

I really want to like the Kitsune content. And despite what everyone says I don't mind dark stories with a lot of drama. I think it can work if executed properly. But it isn't. Tobs writing is poorly thought out, feels contrived, and is unnecessarily spiteful towards the player, for no real justifiable reason. And it doesn't have to be. Tobs can have his princess maker in feudal Japan story-line. The groundwork was all there in my opinion. But, I think his ego completely gets in the way of him being a good writer. Like I genuinely think Nakanao could be a cooler character than farmer bro. As farmer bro just like brint is only liked because he's so inoffensive imo. Nakano (while edgy) has more going on for him, and if he wasn't such a fuck boy, I wouldn't mind him being my son-in-law. And I would love to take him on a quest and see his character develop. But like everything else in this game, its just wasted potential.

 

[mrttao]

Point of order: Brienne isn't beating Kiyoko, at least on any official polls. Kiyoko won and by quite a bit.

As I mentioned before, I'm pretty sure the whole "Tobs wrote Brienne in a rape scene in a jealous rage" thing has no real weight behind it.

Pretty sure Tobs just wrote a "normal for Tobs" scene and Wsan didn't like it.

Tobs writing his own way without any real thought to matching the game's tone is 100% on brand for him anyway.

The whole thing has been a way bigger deal here than Wsan has ever made it seem.

No, there are dev quotes that show it was indeed done on purpose.
You are simply dismissing the claims without even bothering to look.

 

[Daken9]

On the topic of people in the kitsune den's attitude towards the player.

Spoiler: It's ya boi, Nakano

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The kitsune don't curse you out and flip you the bird, but your outsider status is plainly stated to you by almost everyone in the den. This is a dialogue you get when you go to do your first mission for Nakano. I believe the completion of this first quest is necessary to unlock a few things with the kitsune. But to me it came kind of out of nowhere. It's like you're a newbie at work and see your coworker struggling with something. You go over to help and they reply "Oh you want to help? That'll be great but you know this doesn't make us friends right? You'll never be welcomed on the team no matter what you do".

Unnecessary and completely unsubtle, but it gets the point across if you're trying to make someone feel excluded (which was Tobs' aim with the kitsune and their not-japanese society, no matter how many you can bang or help). Nakano saying "you'll never be treated as one of our own, even if everyone will be too polite to state the fact directly" is especially funny because several of the kitsune npcs say this kind of shit right to your face.

"Let me get this straight, you think this guy, this 999 strength/0 intelligence guy, who spends his days beating people to a pulp with his bare hands and then raping them, is a filthy barbarian, and your plan (you=guy from isolationist village out in the middle of nowhere) is to talk shit to this person?"

You nod.

Kitsune rolled worse for intelligence than my guy, holy shit.

 

[Skandranon]

No, there are dev quotes that show it was indeed done on purpose.
You are simply dismissing the claims without even bothering to look.

...feel free to quote them.

Unless I missed them, we just discussed the times dev quotes on the subject were talked about in this thread, and I've spent a significant amount of time combing through the Discord for future content.

But I assume you have something I haven't seen?

 

[mrttao]

...feel free to quote them.

the search bar is right there.

You are making ignorant claims based on nothing but your own imagination, claiming that everyone in the thread is "surely wrong" because in your imagination it is impossible for someone to do something out of spite.
Even though there have been countless screencaps posted in this thread before

Also annoyingly they sometimes get deleted. My best cited post on the subject was deleted for some reason as offtopic. but they did leave this post intact
https://f95zone.to/threads/corrupti...7-savin-salamander-studios.11371/post-8770499
https://f95zone.to/threads/corrupti...7-savin-salamander-studios.11371/post-8771880

Just try and take a look. even just casually, and you will find a bunch of related screencaps