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Seiren

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Jul 28, 2018
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TL;DR:
Balitz: Seiren is blind towards Brint's love, jealous of Cait, and mad at her for being a slut. And also petty (again for Cait being a slut). Aaaand Seiren wants a harem to strike her ego.
Seiren: That's bullshit.
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um, I don't see Balitz as a troll, or even twisting your words.
I didn't say they are a troll - I said "I'll treat Balitz as a troll from now on to not spam here."
Meaning - ignoring them.

Edit:

The difference it's that he's more... neutral about her.
I think more or less the same.
Is there too-much-Cait? Yep. But there's a reason.
Forgot to answer that.
I don't care about this so-called difference. It doesn't justify Balitz calling me jealous and mad only because I said that I dislike her.
Nevertheless, I never called her useless, never undermined her value or said that she shouldn't be in the game. I even said that I should get accustomed to her, and that I like her looks.

It's like saying "I think I don't like ice-cream, but it's kinda nice" and getting "You are wrong! You don't understand how tasty is it and how much it helps people in warm and hot countries. Also, it is very useful. Don't want to hear? Whatever. Listen. *starting to tell all they know about ice-cream."
 
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balitz Method

Active Member
Jan 30, 2018
906
1,472
It's like you don't even read my damn posts. I feel like i'm talking to some generic npc who only has the same 1 or 2 lines to give, over and over.
I -am- reading them and you don't seem to be able to grasp what the basic nature of your complaints is - or don't want to own up to them, anyway.

Personally, i'm just sick and tired of Cait being everywhere and it being impossible for the PC to ignore her. My character gives birth? Cait shows up for no goddamn reason. One of my companions is getting horny? The game literally suggests that perhaps they should let Cait fuck them. Wanna ask your companion about their general opinion about Cait? "DAMN DUDE WHAT A GOOD FUCK, HUH!?" Of course, Cait also has a threesome scene with most of your companions because she just NEEDS to be involved in everything you do.
What is this if not a mad, petty rant? It's been said: she's in those places performing those functions for practical reasons, she's someone you can dump people's sex problems onto if you're not willing to engage with them that way as a player. Otherwise it's literally just complaining that she's fucking too many of the other characters.

And again: I get it, we all have silly little grudges against characters we don't like and it's all the worse when they're prominent, I brought up those points about Brint &c not to insult either of you for being too stupid to get it or whatever but to say that you shouldn't let one character you don't like acting like a tramp and getting a piece of everyone taint the other characters for you. The point was that Brint most definitely doesn't favor Cait over the PC, that there are lots of indications of this in his content, and not to let jealousy/pettiness ruin another character for you. Cait isn't going away so if you let that happen you'll end up hating the game purely because of her.
 

balitz Method

Active Member
Jan 30, 2018
906
1,472
The difference it's that he's more... neutral about her.
I think more or less the same.
Is there too-much-Cait? Yep. But there's a reason.
Yeah, I don't particularly like Cait either but I don't mind her presence. I get why she's there, I also get why she bothers people (and even why she's front and center as the poster girl, Anno -is- one of the most popular TiTS characters) but to me she's just there.

If I was going to dump some fuel on the fire it'd be that for all she's hyped up to be ~so good at sex~ I thought all of her early scenes had her just...lying there. For all that talk she's very vanilla; some sexpert she is.
 

balitz Method

Active Member
Jan 30, 2018
906
1,472
I don't care about this so-called difference. It doesn't justify Balitz calling me jealous and mad only because I said that I dislike her.
The jealousy point wasn't firmly directed to anyone in particular but toward a little of everything. People saying that they felt Cait is more prominent than their PC, that they feel their PC should be super-extra-special, are expressing jealousy at another character stealing their thunder. People saying they don't like how Cait will sleep with other guys are being jealous, too. You were expressing jealousy at how Berwyn insensitively uses the PC to act out his fixation on Cait.

Identifying jealousy isn't the same as saying those feelings are unjustified. Berwyn's especially is justified, that scene seems written to stir up feelings of jealousy, but Berwyn's an insensitive kid heading for heartbreak and that scene is probably part of a character story. What I said was how I can appreciate that kind of thing purely as story (and kinda as trashy melodrama) rather than as porn, I like that the party members aren't in their own little bubbles where they have no interaction with each other, but some people are very clearly not on board with the whole npc x npc thing and may not forgive Berwyn for something like that.
 

hentaifelf

Member
Mar 26, 2018
349
526
i might be a little dumb right now, but who is arona that everyone is talking about lol. i think i progressed far enough to meet everyone lol.
 

Biostar

Well-Known Member
Aug 4, 2017
1,102
4,942
I think he doesn't adds pregnancy, because it's -apparently- too hard to code. Something like that.
It's more that he has a weird hang up with pregnancy. He thinks that a character can't have life goals/jobs/their own shit to do and still be willing to settle down and have kids eventually. That's why the only preg content he writes are for npcs with little backstory or utility.
 

balitz Method

Active Member
Jan 30, 2018
906
1,472
I don't think he has any philosophical problems with pregnancy itself, he just doesn't find the idea of it particularly arousing and doesn't like writing content for it but gets flooded with "when can I knock one of your characters up?????" comments every single day. At this point he'll just make new characters unambiguously unfertile to nip that sort of thing in the bud.

I'm half-convinced that a major reason he got The Observer to be co-head writer was because he's willing to write long and involved pregnancy content - just lifting that off his plate entirely.
 
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Apr 15, 2019
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Yeah, I don't particularly like Cait either but I don't mind her presence. I get why she's there, I also get why she bothers people (and even why she's front and center as the poster girl, Anno -is- one of the most popular TiTS characters) but to me she's just there.

If I was going to dump some fuel on the fire it'd be that for all she's hyped up to be ~so good at sex~ I thought all of her early scenes had her just...lying there. For all that talk she's very vanilla; some sexpert she is.
From everything I've read about cait. My final conclusion is she has no redeeming qualities. She's advertised as a sexual connoisseur, but I remember one line specifically from a scene with her and my male MC. "She's by no means tight, but she makes up for it by flexing her muscles." Yet, throughout the entire scene she was boring. Same thing with the BJs etc. Yes, she has better scenes with non MC's but that furthers people dislike to her. So, she's not a good lay, has no character other then being a convenience in sexual matters (Babies included) and no meaningful dialogue at all. So while I won't say this is the main reason people dislike her. I believe her being poorly written and reduced to nothing but a cocksleeve (A bad one for MC's) is compounding onto the fact of her being disliked.
 
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Fuzzcat

Active Member
Oct 27, 2017
624
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Forgot to answer that.
I don't care about this so-called difference. It doesn't justify Balitz calling me jealous and mad only because I said that I dislike her.
Nevertheless, I never called her useless, never undermined her value or said that she shouldn't be in the game. I even said that I should get accustomed to her, and that I like her looks.
But... but... you said you are a possesive bitch lol!
In any case, I don't see the offense on being called jealous, or that you're mad or pissed off about Cait. It's perfectly understandable, and nobody, incluidng Balitz actually judged you, or made any attempt to make an insult.
In all honestly, I think you took it personally, while he was taking your "complaints" (note the ""s) and expanded generically from there, it wasn't aimed specifically at you (or at least I didn't felt it like that).
And for the record, just as I don't know you, I don't know him neither, I'm being absolutely impartial (sp?) :)

I think what's happening, is that you have troubles "connecting" with characters. Be it because they're "bland", or there isn't a specific gender, or simply a matter of aesthetics, you haven't found a favourite, and the ones available don't cut it for you. So, when a NPC you more or less accept messes with a NPC you don't give a damn (and what's worse, it's everywhere), you get pissed off. It's irritating.
Again: absolutely understandable.
Personally, I'm exactly on the same position. I'm still waiting for a character I like, in the meantime I'm carrying along Cait and Brint just for firepower, and dabble a bit with characters mildly attractive (for me). Of course, there's always a mention of Cait and I'm like "oh ffs, again her". I won't say I get jealous mostly because It's not my playstyle. But mad? Hell yeah, definitely.
(I did read all your text lol)

Yeah, I don't particularly like Cait either but I don't mind her presence. I get why she's there, I also get why she bothers people (and even why she's front and center as the poster girl, Anno -is- one of the most popular TiTS characters) but to me she's just there.

If I was going to dump some fuel on the fire it'd be that for all she's hyped up to be ~so good at sex~ I thought all of her early scenes had her just...lying there. For all that talk she's very vanilla; some sexpert she is.
True.
Y'now, in a sense, I'm sort of glad Anno/Cait hang around with others. Because I don't think I've (I mean my PC) ever saw their sex scenes, aside of the ones required for the story. They're just there, because we gotta catch'em all.

i might be a little dumb right now, but who is arona that everyone is talking about lol. i think i progressed far enough to meet everyone lol.
She's probably the only character I've been interested so far.
A futa orc with a dynamic system of dom/sub, several sex scenes that also varies depending if she's dom/sub, and also vary depending if you win/lose or surrender, and even a bad end (again, depending on the dom/sub). It also has a -relatively- long quest line, that has a lot of outcomes. And she's not recruitable yet (apparently it's planned). Most likely, it'll become a fan favourite.

You need to be level 3, and roam around the foothills (out the town to the east, and explore up north and down the same zone). Warning: it's a THOUGH fight, since she is with a gang of female orcs, in case you intend to win (winning raises her submissiveness, losing raises his domineering).

It's more that he has a weird hang up with pregnancy. He thinks that a character can't have life goals/jobs/their own shit to do and still be willing to settle down and have kids eventually.
I don't think he has any philosophical problems with pregnancy itself, he just doesn't find the idea of it particularly arousing
Probably both.
And also, f**c politeness:
he's a too paid-of-himself spiteful asshole.
I wouldn't be surprised if he's actually mingling Cait everywhere just because people complaints.

From everything I've read about cait. My final conclusion is she has no redeeming qualities...
her being poorly written and reduced to nothing but a cocksleeve (A bad one for MC's) is compounding onto the fact of her being disliked.
Well, you totally got it lol

Also, I'm starting to think that her constant mentioning, is a way to add a sort of "sex all around" background. Like in Tits there are always some random background sex scnes, that give that cheeky 'n horny game vibe. But in here, he's failing miserably.
 
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Felkesste

Newbie
Mar 4, 2018
17
54
I think the problem a lot of folks are coming to grips with is the big shift in priorities from Corruption of Champions to it's sequel; In CoC, you were the champion. The one and only champion. There were others, and it's implied there are more from other worlds, or even from yours, but they never get mentioned, or explored much, and if you did encounter them, your status as -THE- champion would mean that they'd just become a follower, if anything. In CoC 2, you're the follower of the champion. Cait. Cait's the protagonist, the player character- and you're experiencing her adventure as one of her followers, a waifu, a husbando, or just a meat-shield if you're 'prudish' and won't put out for her. This is Cait's adventure, and you take the role of someone like Hel from the previous game, 'you're a badass', 'you carry your own weight', 'you have attitude', but you're utterly powerless against the player character's importance to the narrative. The world revolves around them, bends to their whims and desires. You're just along for the ride.

Cait being the player character means she's always being mentioned, always showing up, always 'getting the majority of the action', kind of feels like CoC 2 was Savin's way of paying back all the folks that mistreated his precious waifu followers, sort of a big 'this is how it feels to be in their position'. It is what it is. I can't get worked up about it one way or the other, I get something to kill time with, regardless. But yep, CoC was written with the world revolving around you and your choices- CoC 2 puts you in the role of an NPC, following Cait- the quintessential CoC champion, both dominant and submissive, kind of entitled, shamelessly lewd, with pink hair even, (throw an option to give her a dick into the game at any point, and the freedom to go from one or the other, and she could very well be the ideal example of the first games' champions)- as Cait quests across the land towards finding her sister.

The ending, should CoC 2 ever get an ending in the first place, will probably crush a lot of players' souls, too. You'll track down the cult, beat all the big baddies, defeat the demon and end her corrupt influence- and then a portal to Myreth will open, you'll chuck the demon into it, and Cait will 'fulfill her destiny as a champion', step inside, and begin her quest for real to find her sister, leaving you behind to pick up the pieces. You'll get some kind of sappy epilogue about how you settled down in the village, helped build new homes, repair old ones, did some honest work, and spent the rest of your life wondering what ever happened to Cait, missing her, and cheering her on, as the hero you were honored to have met...

Who just happened to fuck everyone and their dog(-boys) before she left.

Games tend to be all about fantasy fulfillment, non-lewd ones put you in the role of a hero, capable of changing the world through your sheer force of will, and lewd ones make you some kind of universally attractive sex symbol that can pick and choose your experiences, orchestrating your own submission, or enforcing your domination. CoC 2 leaves some folks feeling cold and unwanted, as it's got very little fantasy fulfillment, it's a game that wants to make an NPC feel special, wants to give the protagonist experience to Cait, not to the actual player. Which is why so many players get so upset playing CoC 2. It's weird to have a game be so unconcerned with your experience, so disinterested in making you feel special, or important, or even 'finding room for you' in the action. For what it's worth, even if the spotlight's on Cait, Cait doesn't 'force' anything on anyone, as far as I've seen. I mean, she'll fuck anyone you have feelings for before you get a chance to, period, but the player character in CoC could do some spooky things to the NPCs. She's not slipping us bimbo liqueur, or body changing potions. That's a plus. Or a missed opportunity.
 

Biostar

Well-Known Member
Aug 4, 2017
1,102
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Think you may be exaggerating a lot there. I mean, how long did it take for Cait to get an update to her singular quest? And it's just a "you have to go here to continue the quest, but that's not in yet" deadend. Meanwhile you have the orc village, marefolk village, Kiyoko and Kinu, the farm, the church, the cat harem, Garret and Garth's quests, Gwyn, Etheryn, the Alarune, and Evergreen, and etc. All that you can do without Cait even leaving the inn. Kasyraa pays only attention to you. You're still the hero and a sexual god/goddess that everyone wants a piece of.
 

balitz Method

Active Member
Jan 30, 2018
906
1,472
I did enjoy reading that diatribe, it was melodramatic in a fun way, but it's not very true. By sheer breadth of content CoC2 is much more of a "raise your fox daughter who inherits all your super special main character powers" simulator and a heavy-handed melodrama between wolves where everyone just states their exact feelings out loud like a goofy stage play.

CoC didn't really go out of its way to stroke the PC's Mary Sue Chic (TiTS makes up for that by cranking it up to 11 in a self-aware sort of way), either, it's more that the content was all in its own bubbles so there were only a handful of scenes where characters interacted. CoC2 is going in the exact opposite direction by trying to interconnect most of the content.

If anyone's Savin's exact specifications it's the bad guy.
 

Felkesste

Newbie
Mar 4, 2018
17
54
P'shaw, just look at the game, scene-by-scene. You start in a bar. Your history is unimportant. You're not doing anything important. You're waiting around with everyone else in town for a storm to pass. At the same time, Cait is out having a scuffle with cultists and establishing motivation. She loses her sister, shows up asking for help, we volunteer, and we're giiiven our first weapon, which says that we weren't an adventurer waiting around for a quest here as we were unarmed, this is the point where we became one. Shucks, Cait had the sense to travel with a weapon, at least. I guess we had no intention of travelling, either? There for the long-haul, looking for a job as a lumberjack, maybe?

Cait has all the motivation here. She's asking questions as we down cultists, and when we confront the cult's leader, she's the one with the dramatic back-and-forth. We get noticed at the very end, and he doesn't even wait long enough for a name before he dismisses us entirely. You win, you fail to save the sister, Cait has the dramatic scenes, you comfort her- then Kas happens after the two of you seperate. You're knocked out cold for days, Cait continues exploring town, talking to NPCs, asking questions, investigating leads, delivering pups, and tending to you. You wake up, 'you missed a lot', you inform them of the demon, everyone has their own motivations to pursue her- yours are left.. Kind of weird and vague, 'she might come back for your soul'. What, more-so than anyone else, she'd specifically target your soul, because of a throw-away line she gave you before you blacked out about how you should hang onto your soul so she can have it some day? Alright. When you go to recruit Cait, she turns the tables, and ends up convincing you to tag along with her and help her find a lead on her sister.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not complainin', just suggesting this might be what has people upset, protagonist or side-kick, the game presents something to do, and something to think about, and that's enough. Though you are right, Kas singles you out a lot, and during your second encounter with them, it feels like they're setting you up for a fall to the dark side. So maybe some day, if the game reaches that point, it'll be you that Cait ends up having to face at the end. That's an exciting thought, that we might be getting groomed to pull some big betrayal. Not many games let you play the role of a slow-burn villain in the making.

As far as content goes though, yeah, that's kind of how games- and reality- works, you see and experience things from your OWN perspective. You don't get to see or experience things from Cait's point of view, or any of the other NPCs, you can only piece things together about what they do with what's being said, or done around you. The only two people I feel recognize the player character as a hero are Garth, and Kas- Garth because he used to be an adventurer playing second-fiddle to his wife, something he keeps dropping 'subtle' clues about in like every other conversation- and Kas because you were there when she came through the gate, and she never even got to meet Cait. Game has to give the player something to do, or it's 'empty'. So we get to build houses for fairies, and find a skirt for a centaur femboy. Everyone's the hero of their own story. Cait does things off-screen which is implied by all the off-screen sex, delivering pups, and investigating leads. Brint's always having a great time, off-screen and on-screen. I'm just saying that as things are set up now, it feels like the universe is pushing Cait as the hero on a mission, and you're there to help her- and maybe some day, stand in her way.

Which doesn't mean your adventure, and experiences aren't valid, just that you're 'not the chosen one'. Which'll only really be felt at the end of the adventure, or during anything that feels 'climactic'. Worst you might have to put up with is Cait getting more lines, Cait getting more attention from potential lovers, or Cait stealing the last hit on someone you just pummeled the daylights out of. I was just suggesting that might be what has some folks so upset with Cait, that she's constantly just there, stealing the show, and making them feel less important, or less desirable.

You're right about the goofy stage-play bit too, though. Savin's writing style is kind of like the rest of him. Hot-headed, hot-blooded, 'to the point', with really strong feelings about a lot of things that he takes very vocal stances on. Moral stuff, mostly. Some really out of place stuff here and there, and he doesn't do subtlety. Punchin' wargs, m'ah dude.

I'unno, maybe I'm putting way more thought into this than Savin, and the reality is he just has an obsession with the characters he produces. I think I would probably end up being a little upset if it turned out that there wasn't any thought put in, and I was just playing through someone's fan-fics about their 'super sexy OCs being awesome' in disguise. I'd like to believe there's some kind of greater narrative here.
 

Fuzzcat

Active Member
Oct 27, 2017
624
664
In CoC 2, you're the follower of the champion. Cait. Cait's the protagonist, the player character- and you're experiencing her adventure as one of her followers, a waifu, a husbando, or just a meat-shield if you're 'prudish' and won't put out for her.
Interesting way of seeing it. More or less what I said some wall-texts before lol
But no. Cait is not the champion.

P'shaw, just look at the game, scene-by-scene. You start in a bar. Your history is unimportant. You're not doing anything important. You're waiting around with everyone else in town for a storm to pass. At the same time, Cait is out having a scuffle with cultists and establishing motivation. She loses her sister, shows up asking for help, we volunteer, and we're giiiven our first weapon, which says that we weren't an adventurer waiting around for a quest here as we were unarmed, this is the point where we became one. Shucks, Cait had the sense to travel with a weapon, at least. I guess we had no intention of travelling, either? There for the long-haul, looking for a job as a lumberjack, maybe?
True, true, and true.
And yet... no.
Yes, we start i a bar, and she has a backstory. But everyone else seems to have an -exceedlingly long- backstory.
With the same argument, the wolf guy at the bar could be the champion. He has a place, a weapon, lost his son and is looking for it, etc etc. The blind deer girls has lots of story too, as well the wyvern-poison-addicted bow n arrow seller.
But it's you who start the story, open the portal, face the demon, and more importantly, you're the one that people follows.

Your hypotetical ending could be possible tho.
Maybe as a twist of plot, Cait takes the step, who knows?
Yet, the "champion" still remains... you.

And no.
Savin is not "punching wargs".
He's rude and disrepectful, much like any "on-line bad boy".
He's not hot-headed, or anything like that. Quite the opposite, he's cold and doesn't gives a damn about anything/anyone except his own ego, and that's when he becomes "strong opinioned" and "very vocal", which actually means he just insults and block whoever dares to have something different to say. Far from moral stuff, as he usually contradicts himself (in the sense he can insult you for saying X, when he's actually doing a game and making profit of said X).

Anyways, I don't completely disagree with what yoy say, you have some valid points, tho I don't think Cait is THE hero. maybe she gets to be important for the plot yeah, considering he's mentioned everywhere.
But, again (for the 9th time), she needs to be there, and do the things she does. But it doesn't needs to be on every damned scene just because
(maybe, another thing that kinda bother people -it does for me at least- is that she's a plain-another-one catgirl.)
 
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hentaifelf

Member
Mar 26, 2018
349
526
I would actually love to see the twist was that while we were helping cait level up, we already know much about her power. It even goes to show that kiyoko doesn't like cait (being that it is in a dream that it was stated). You make friends with people who either switch to cait's side, or stay with you and be indebted towards the good will you've shown them throughout your travels. Its like not killing the allaurane (don't know how to spell her name lol) and she already acts goody goody to you. The actions you make slowly shows that you're building your own personality. I'd love to see this come into fruition if i had to be honest lol. The only problem is that cait doesn't really show the traits of a hero, it's like her personality is flat and static. I wish i was good at making games and coding so i can personally make it happen smh. evil protag really turns me on (not like that, just saying i really really enjoy it)
 

Sasquatch421

Newbie
Nov 10, 2017
58
134
Probably both.
And also, f**c politeness:
he's a too paid-of-himself spiteful asshole.
I wouldn't be surprised if he's actually mingling Cait everywhere just because people complaints.

He's rude and disrepectful, much like any "on-line bad boy".
He's not hot-headed, or anything like that. Quite the opposite, he's cold and doesn't gives a damn about anything/anyone except his own ego, and that's when he becomes "strong opinioned" and "very vocal", which actually means he just insults and block whoever dares to have something different to say. Far from moral stuff, as he usually contradicts himself (in the sense he can insult you for saying X, when he's actually doing a game and making profit of said X).
I'm sorry, but I have no problems with Savin. When I met him long ago it was on E and I had mentioned I played COC and he pm'ed me to chat. I was a Bee Girl fan and I had fun chatting with Savin. This war vet gives him a thumbs up and doesn't mind his characters.

Lol, it has been so long since I have seen that word... I so need to re-read the Little House series when I get around to re-buying the series as my old ones are worn out.

On a side note I would love to have my character to be set up to be A or THE true villain at the end. Yes, I don't mind being the hero but at some moments, I just wanna be bad and take my frustrations out on some NPC's.
 

Fuzzcat

Active Member
Oct 27, 2017
624
664
I'm sorry, but I have no problems with Savin. When I met him long ago it was on E and I had mentioned I played COC and he pm'ed me to chat. I was a Bee Girl fan and I had fun chatting with Savin. This war vet gives him a thumbs up and doesn't mind his characters.
Lemme see...
you talked once with him, and that was because you were a fan of his work, and he was nice ;)

I spent a couple years on Fenoxo's forum, and aside of (or maybe the opposite, complementing) being an awful place, he was by far the worst.
The other devs are -I assume- sort of tired or jaded of all the nerd-rage whinning, or the overall annoying demands. It's understandable. But I never saw them having a bad reply, or insult anyone ('cept in particularly trollish comments)... except him. Even Gedan, which seems to be the more gruff or strict of them, is fine with people's opinions.
But just ask or argument anything Savinhas "stated", and you're done.

And what's worst, he starts the insults, judges you, and let the forum members join in "the fun", ti'll some other dev/mod has to intervene.
Not only he has the "on-line bad boy" attitude (which means he's oh-so-though because it's the internetz), but he also provokes and incites.
So, on his forum, on line, with the privileges of a dev/mod... yeah, it's easy to be an asshole.
He just soaked up all the ass-kissing on Fen's forum, and started to believe it.
 

balitz Method

Active Member
Jan 30, 2018
906
1,472
P'shaw, just look at the game, scene-by-scene. You start in a bar. Your history is unimportant. You're not doing anything important. You're waiting around with everyone else in town for a storm to pass. At the same time, Cait is out having a scuffle with cultists and establishing motivation. She loses her sister, shows up asking for help, we volunteer, and we're giiiven our first weapon, which says that we weren't an adventurer waiting around for a quest here as we were unarmed, this is the point where we became one. Shucks, Cait had the sense to travel with a weapon, at least. I guess we had no intention of travelling, either? There for the long-haul, looking for a job as a lumberjack, maybe?

Cait has all the motivation here. She's asking questions as we down cultists, and when we confront the cult's leader, she's the one with the dramatic back-and-forth. We get noticed at the very end, and he doesn't even wait long enough for a name before he dismisses us entirely. You win, you fail to save the sister, Cait has the dramatic scenes, you comfort her- then Kas happens after the two of you seperate. You're knocked out cold for days, Cait continues exploring town, talking to NPCs, asking questions, investigating leads, delivering pups, and tending to you. You wake up, 'you missed a lot', you inform them of the demon, everyone has their own motivations to pursue her- yours are left.. Kind of weird and vague, 'she might come back for your soul'. What, more-so than anyone else, she'd specifically target your soul, because of a throw-away line she gave you before you blacked out about how you should hang onto your soul so she can have it some day? Alright. When you go to recruit Cait, she turns the tables, and ends up convincing you to tag along with her and help her find a lead on her sister.
That's just basic hero's journey stuff. Think of all the RPGs out there: how many of them start with some nobody farmboy having a chance encounter with an important princess-or-whatever? The answer is most of them.

The main plot here is that Kasyrra is a new threat and the PC's encounter with her in the course of helping a damsel in distress got them inextricably tangled up in this crisis. Now Kasyrra's doings are the PC's problem and stopping her promises to lead into all sorts of adventures.

Cait on the other hand is only concerned with finding her sister, she has no connection to the wider adventure but agrees to help out of gratitude (and in exchange for getting the new Champion's help with her own quest). If this were her show then she'd be the one tasked with taking out the demon threat but that's not expected of her.
 
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balitz Method

Active Member
Jan 30, 2018
906
1,472
You're right about the goofy stage-play bit too, though. Savin's writing style is kind of like the rest of him. Hot-headed, hot-blooded, 'to the point', with really strong feelings about a lot of things that he takes very vocal stances on. Moral stuff, mostly. Some really out of place stuff here and there, and he doesn't do subtlety. Punchin' wargs, m'ah dude.
All the wolf family drama and warg-punching was the Observer. He's the one with the very unnatural-sounding dialogue.

I can't count the number of passages of his where the characters either plainly-but-dramatically state their feelings in a too-frank and self-aware way or just repeat something over and over until he's sure you've got it. Savin's to-the-point style ends up feeling refreshingly concise by comparison.

I don't hate Observer's ideas but the guy seriously needs someone to help him workshop that dialogue of his; characters shouldn't be saying the subtext out loud.
 

Felkesste

Newbie
Mar 4, 2018
17
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I'll admit, it's easy for me to get a little lost in my imagination, and maybe I'm seeing things that aren't really there, building excitement for 'what could be just around the corner', eheh. I want to believe the writing's going somewhere, that Savin has an ace up his sleeve, and that Kas might be the first demon we get to see ever do more of that 'dark temptation' stuff these demons are so famous for, beyond spreading their legs and hoping the player's into it. That she might be pushing us to get power, and showing us the world and laws that 'could be' because she wants to hook us on the idea of helping her to make the world a hedonistic paradise, going full-on 'become my apprentice, and I will show you how to do as I do' with it.

Reeeealistically though, I have to acknowledge that the game is a joint-project between Savin and a bunch of other folks, and doesn't have any one single voice behind it, which would make having a greater plan a little tricky. Observer's gotten to flesh out a lot of the world, for example. Being a bit cynical for a moment too, it's kind of discouraging that the last post Savin made on their site was a public bounty board posting where the phrasing they used implied they didn't like the idea of more work than they had to do, eheh... They don't sound particularly enthused, or passionate right now.

Aaaand.. Nothing in Corruption of Champions ever explored the idea of demons being particularly subtle about their temptations and manipulations, they never had to be, they had overwhelming power, overwhelming numbers, and while it's anything but subtle or clever, spreading their legs actually DID work for corrupting large swathes of people. Even in the world of CoC2, Kas is corrupting people with displays of overwhelming power, and spreading their legs. No need to fix what isn't broke, I guess. It's just a bummer to think that it's just going to be more of the same. That there may not be a point where they try exploring you- the player-character- and your desires and motivations, so they can make tempting offers, and twisted promises, coaxing you into at least considering being on their side. I guess they'd only really feel it might be worth it to try after you'd mopped up most of their bigger minions..? But I mean, the alraune, the centaurs, the cultists- all without Kas' 'gifts of power', you'd think we'd be worth a little consideration at that point.

Heh, some twisted priorities there though, wondering 'why the villain isn't more impressed?' I'unno. I'm just lost in excitement for what could be, and that might be prompting me to twist some of what I see, and experience to suit that narrative, rather than leave them to be 'strange choices' in particular scenes, or 'generic approaches' to familiar ideas. I want to enjoy this, even if it means lying to myself- for a bit, at least. It's fine in small amounts.

It may sound like I hate Cait, hell-bent on fighting her and all, but while she's not my cup of tea, I just want her to be a rival. My equal, and opposite. Started the journey together, grew stronger together, but 'learned different lessons', and had very different dreams for our future. In every RPG, you'll grow stronger than the final boss- because that's how you'll beat them. They don't seem to grow, which makes you and your little party of heroes feel like you're somehow more powerful than them at the end of the day. So that makes me want to fight against another hero for a change. Kas is getting painted out to be big, bad, and powerful, but so was the demon queen in the first game, and she ended up being an absentee chump. Everyone's so scared of her, but you stomp into her house, slap her guards, slap her, sit in her throne, and "you're the ruler now".

Kas is already a huge improvement, because you actually see her before that final battle, but still, the routine of boss-slaying in games and stories means Kas doesn't feel particularly intimidating, even if she should feel that way. Might be a personal problem, but for a change of pace, I've got my fingers crossed she's actually a lot more clever, and subtle, stringing us along, and presenting us with little temptations, and choices that'll eventually culminate in our choosing to be her champion rather than the world's champion. "To hell with heroics, I want a self-indulgent paradise of battle, sex, wealth, and power- made to my tastes! I'll help to change the world!"

In this particular narrative, I hope to be an anti-hero, and turn on my fellow heroes. Pull a Vegeta or something. I want fun twists, and a satisfying ending.
 
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