Others Corruption of Champions II [v0.7.27] [Savin/Salamander Studios]

[Skandranon]

IDK, it's weird, 'cause I feel like I'm pulling a "no true Scotsman" by saying that "those aren't real RPGs", but I do think the term is a bit misapplied. Regardless, if we just look at the focus of a game like Dark Souls, which is all about the combat, compared to CoC2, which is all about character interactions, I think it's reasonable to want/expect more options tied to role-playing in the latter than the former.

Most video games games with created characters don't really have deep, choice based character interactions tbh, because created characters are boring conversationalists.

If we're limiting it to games with created characters that also have a large focus on dialogue and characters...then at that point we're solely talking about a limited amount of CRPGs. Baldur's Gate, Dragon Age, KOTOR, etc. Those games have always been a very, very niche product that happen in low numbers...at least partially because developing them is a huge hassle for limited return.

Basically, choices take more a lot more work and don't make more money, and I don't know that its really fair to expect something from a team of like...9 people? that AAA devs struggle with to this day.

 

[Bloep]

I'd say that ovipositors apply, because in the "Fenoxo-verse" if you'll allow me the expression, ovipositors don't work like in real life. Actual ovipositors come from the end of the insect's abdomen (arachnids don't have them), and they're basically just tubes. In CoC2 and TiTS, they're located on the crotch, like a penis, are shaped like a penis, have sensitivity like a penis, and essentially function just like a regular penis, except that they shoot eggs instead of jizz.

Tell me where the penis is here.
I can understand calling nyreans in tits for futas, but this is different.

 

[muschi26]

Most video games games with created characters don't really have deep, choice based character interactions tbh, because created characters are boring conversationalists.

If we're limiting it to games with created characters that also have a large focus on dialogue and characters...then at that point we're solely talking about a limited amount of CRPGs. Baldur's Gate, Dragon Age, KOTOR, etc. Those games have always been a very, very niche product that happen in low numbers...at least partially because developing them is a huge hassle for limited return.

Basically, choices take more a lot more work and don't make more money, and I don't know that its really fair to expect something from a team of like...9 people? that AAA devs struggle with to this day.

Well, I would also include games that, without having necessarily deep, choice-based character interactions, at least focus on story, such as most JRPGs.

The caveat that comes with including games like Skyrim within RPGs is that a lot of the criticism that was directed towards Skyrim was that the RPG elements were shallow and not good, so you can either consider it an RPG that fails at being an RPG, or a not-RPG that tries to include some RPG elements.

Also, AAA devs struggle to make deep, choice-based systems because they have a lot of other things they need to allocate resources to: modelling, animation, combat systems, mini-games/supplementary mechanics, etc. CoC2 is a text-based game with character portraits as basically the only art, and the only non–story-related elements—combat and TFs—haven't had any changes in what, over a year? I feel like working on a deep, choice-based character interaction system is basically the only thing that's left to do in this game.

 

[Tau_Iota]

Tell me where the penis is here.
I can understand calling nyreans in tits for futas, but this is different.

Hmm... On her head?

 

[muschi26]

View attachment 1857359

Hmm... On her head?

Did you just make that edit? LMAO

Tell me where the penis is here.
I can understand calling nyreans in tits for futas, but this is different.

The drider scene doesn't mention where it comes from, and the hornet scene refers to it multiple times as an "ovi-cock", so I assumed it came out of their vaginas or grew out of their clits, etc., resulting in something akin to the Nyrea in TiTS, but it seems the Hornet scene does mention it comin from under their stingers, so you're right about the location. They still behave more like cocks, though, even spewing "honey" as lubricant.

 

[Tau_Iota]

Did you just make that edit? LMAO

What? No that would be a horrible waste of time. There's a secret transformation for her, you only have to put in the Konami Code 6 times in dialogue with her and then travel all the way to Brint's family home, do 50 jumpingjacks irl (don't worry the game will know), then return to her and she'll have grown a dick. 100% real no fake I promise

 

[MSGTNP]

I do understand that some feel that Takahiro is not relevant enough to be hated however in context with the fox den as a whole I do hate him and Nakano. We the player have done more for the fox den then Takahiro ever has or ever will yet the drunk bum gets more respect than we do and he goes around getting drunk and groping women. Remember you can literally fix all the Den's problems even be Nakano's errand bitch and your reward is to get berated by your daughter for being over protective from a (genocidal maniac). All because controlling your daughter is worse than being a drunk that gropes women . The Gweyr quest is perfectly okay with both Garth and Gweyr threatening the MC if we break either Garret or Gwyn's heart once we have children with them. Can we do the same to Nakano? Nope not allowed the MC just gets disrespected instead despite being a better parent than Gweyr ever was.

Also to anyone who says you don't get with everyone in a RPG romantically. You are all right but this isn't an RPG its an erotic game first and the combat gameplay is pretty bad tbh I think RPG maker games have better combat than this. The focus is on the erotic so just like I had a huge problem with the Gweyr quest how does it reward the player? Does anyone actually like Takahiro? What benefit do we get for helping out with Azami? An item? A skill? A Spell? More Lore for the fox den which is inconsistent as I demonstrated above so how is that a reward? At least the Gweyr quest gives you something even if it will be useless later in the game. However they aren't major characters so they have that going for them the Gweyr quest was awful because it was related to the first character we met in the game.

So nope I stick to my original statement feminize Takahiro and instill discipline him now her and even though you NTR Takahiro they will be too subserviant to you to care. Another option which is inspired by Magical witch Iori Awakening which is available here https://f95zone.to/threads/translation-request-magia-witch-iori-awakening.82957/ is for Azami to get with Takahiro attempt to have sex and he can't get it up so she ends up drunk and upset this leads to MC comforting her by giving her the dicking of her life. She gets corrupted by the MC and then continues with Takahiro only to break him for us by a dominant foot job then shape shifting him into a girl with some Keros shenanigans and slowly gets female takahiro addicted to female pleasure. The MC does the finishing touch after Azami blindfolds femhiro so the MC dicks her down and they are too addicted to female pleasure to resist and admits to their failings as a man and remains a woman.

If Keros himself is impressed with the MC's sexual prowess I don't see why Azami wouldn't be either. The reason this scenario could work is because if you are too drunk you can't get hard properly so it would suit the drunken bum to be a complete failure at love making. Not to mention that you can't get drunk if you are constantly pregnant after all Femhiro wouldn't want to harm the baby . Also not everyone is into Feminiziation or femboi fucking so Azami could deal with that side while the MC deals with the final product that was broken in by Azami. Since Keros is not overly bothered by gender and if you read gods war lore (which I did recently) is a massive perfectionist so its weird he even tolerates an idiot like Takahiro anyway. Could convince the rest of the den its no big deal and better suited this way to serving Keros' will.

It's Tobs at his finest, what else would you expect? You probably have to save the world three times with the true favorism of their creator before your family, let alone the Kitsunes acknowledge you as one of their own, let alone as their savior. I just wanna bitch slap Kinu Hime into oblivion lol

My hate for the drunk fox was abit overplayed cuz I grew up with AVGN and Nostalgia Critic so rants are hilarious to me, honestly he just an annoyance whenever I visit the Den of Foxes and his scenes randomly pop-up like...fuck off Tobs if I wanted to interact with the guy I would GO talk with the NPC personally, ok? (Also if y'all wondering why I go to the Den more than once calm down folks, I'm only going there to check for rare items from our resident adorable shortstack Kohaku, also best place to buy Winterstem & Purple Eggs AFAIK.)

Tell me about it >_>
It's real annoying to go in the den for whatever reason, whether for fucking or doing business with Kohaku, when you keep getting these drunk scenes with that moron.

Eh, I don't know that that really tracks either. Any MMORPG that you can create a character has basically no choice in how to behave. Most Dark Souls type games, Dragon's Dogma, Dragon Quest IX, any Diablo type game with character creation, etc. are RPGs that have character creation with little to no control over the actions of your character.

Skyrim is a major example too, there's...maybe two or three choices in the course of the game, that aren't just "do quest" or "don't do quest".

I get that that may be what you think of as an RPG, but I don't think it's held true since like the 90s in video games.

Bro, it's called laziness and money lol
Modern RPG's can barely even be called RPG's with few exceptions. RPG's are supposed to descend from D&D which was and still is the king of Role playing, a game format that allowed you to create a custom character from near scratch and role play that character through your interactions with the world where possibly any choice you make matters which in turn, could alter the world itself. Obviously now you can't make a video game like that without a immeasurable amount of resources, hence why RPG video games are made to be streamlined for ease of play, especially for today's audiences who for the most part, have the attention of a wet noddle where If they don't get their instant gratification, It ain't worth touching. It's kinda sad how almost anything with creativity gets shits on by video games like COD unless it's like a triple AAA title like Dark Souls but like it's already been mentioned, while the Dark Souls games have a pretty interesting setting & universe, there more akin to oldschool adventuring/dungeon crawling games than as a RPG. Since RPG's just don't make money like they used to unless COD like players can play them for longer than five minutes without getting bored, you always gonna get something akin to a skyrim where freedom of choice is sacrificed for gameplay and story. Some obviously do better than others but until there some RPG revolution, were all stuck with indie games really when it comes to filling that RPG niche lol

As for COC II, it's in a weird ass spot. It's a RPG that were supposed to take serious to some extent yet at the same time, it's a porn game that exists solely to help you fap. You can't really cater to one side without catering to the other. If they wanted to tell a linear story like an adventuring story than they should have removed the ability to create a character and all meaningful choices.

 

[Skandranon]

Well, I would also include games that, without having necessarily deep, choice-based character interactions, at least focus on story, such as most JRPGs.

JRPGs don't normally have character creation, which is what you suggested makes the player expect a lot of choices and options.

If we're comparing this game to JRPGs, then it falls right in line with that. Most JRPGs are extremely linear with little to no story based choices at all.

Also, AAA devs struggle to make deep, choice-based systems because they have a lot of other things they need to allocate resources to: modelling, animation, combat systems, mini-games/supplementary mechanics, etc. CoC2 is a text-based game with character portraits as basically the only art, and the only non–story-related elements—combat and TFs—haven't had any changes in what, over a year? I feel like working on a deep, choice-based character interaction system is basically the only thing that's left to do in this game.

That's...not really it, I don't think. The people working on the story aren't also working on those other things, there's not a a lot of resource crossover there. Choices by themselves, even supposedly simple ones, balloon dev time a massive amount. It's why Mass Effect, despite being a wildly successful series, had less and less choice and less player agency as the series went on.

I think what happens a lot around here is people underestimate how difficult writing is and how long it takes. Just for example, B took a full year working pretty much just on Berwyn's upcoming quest, and was burnt out at the end, having trouble sleeping and backlogged a lot of other projects. That's just one quest for a single companion, and the reason is because there are a bunch of different results for that quest (having Matiha, not having Matiha, changing Berry's gender etc.). That kind of dev time would probably be unsustainable on a wider scale.


I used to lurk on the old Spellhold Studios forums, and a few devs from Black Isle and Bioware and such used to hang out and talk there amongst other places, and they used to be quite frank about this kind of stuff all the time. Things that players take for granted and think don't take much work tend to have domino effects on development, and one of the things that came up time after time was when people asked "why can't we do thing" and the devs dropped knowledge about why it didn't happen.

They went over lots of stuff, like why good/evil choices often leave the evil side undercooked, why choices were often lopsided in favor of rewards to one side, why some choices dovetailed and came back together later on to end up the same no matter which one you make, etc. It almost always boiled down to the fact that making double the amount of content for players that were only going to play half of it, and almost always one really obvious half, was a huge waste of resource from a efficiency perspective.

Anyway, this is a lot of text to say that I think the devs have intentionally chosen to try to keep this game lean and linear to avoid the fate of...well, the other three Fengames and associated acts (CoC's basically cut off developmnent, Fall of Eden's nuking, and TiTS's scope creep and cancellation of more than half its content).

Whether its the right decision is up in the air...but it does look like this will be the first game to actually see completion, with all its planned features and outlined goals intact.

 

[Deleted member 1660801]

Basically, choices take more a lot more work and don't make more money, and I don't know that its really fair to expect something from a team of like...9 people? that AAA devs struggle with to this day.

It is more then fair to expect more out of these Devs
The game is on Steam, making it more professional then 90% of h games. How many of the games on this site can you say is on steam or something akin to steam that isn't a Japanese game. Not only that they are asking for money to get the game. I'm expecting good product when I put money into something or being able to critique it. But the devs won't even let you do that on their website.

They have a Patreon that makes 32k a month. Do not give me the excuse about AAA games. This is a text based game that doesn't need unreal engine or some fancy lighting system. It lives and dies on character interacts. It is not "unfair" to expect more out the devs. If anything it is more then fair to expect more with what they are working with.

I understand that writing is hard and stressful for the team. I'm just trying to argue that its more then fair to expect more of them.

 

[M0nte]

The thing about writing a choice for this game, even a simple one, balloons your wordcount if you really want to support it. But, and this may be just me, I feel like the game does have a nice amount of variations when it comes to content at hand, especially with half of the companions. Now, to be fair, the problem here is that what is the other option contains may not be up to your taste.
Couple of examples...
Different Kinus
Arona and her dom/sub variations (they offer completly different view on same character).
Ryn and her confidence meter.
Brinthause and the three different routes you can take with them (dom as vagina/dick haver, femdom rhina for female/cboy players, do you involve Brienne or not, is Brint with you or not).
Do you knock up all the orcs?
The whole Kas romance thing.

To the choices that you can make quests (be they big or small) such as-
Building Mallach temple (it should soon)
How did you deal with Hethia
How did you deal with ghost elves
Do you bring Garret or not at ghost dog dungeon.

To just smaller things like dialogue based on if you have fucked specific character or not, if you are pregnant or not, did you do something or not. Really, the game is chuck fulled with that stuff.

Now, not saying that the game is perfect. Sometimes it does railroad you into a specific experience. And the support for corruption is lacking. But I feel like the game is responsive enough already.
Now, this can be just something that I noticed since, as a person with wast amount of kinks, I do engage with most of what the game has to offer. So my expirience may be different when compared to people that only want to engage with specific types of content. Those that feel like the game does not have enough variations that pander specifically to them. Like, example, I doubt that most people here keep Brint alive when Brienne is an option. Or that they engage with Arona and her dominant side or the stuff that she offers as a father to players children.

I think all that is just a consequence of the game being so spread out and that most of the noticable divirging paths are tied to the kinks. So if the specific kink is not to your liking, then you are missing out.
As for story related ones? Really depends on the quests. Some have choices, some have not. Usually the ones with bigger story significant do. Now they are not earth shattering, but from moment to moment gameplay wise I think they work overall.

 

[Skandranon]

It is more then fair to expect more out of these Devs
The game is on Steam, making it more professional then 90% of h games.

That...doesn't mean much at all. Getting on Steam is trivial. The reason a lot of h-games aren't on there is because they don't meet the content qualifications, not a quality standard.
There are ridiculously lazy and bad games on Steam. Straight up asset flips that are literally just copy and pasted other games with different titles. Being on Steam is avalaible to almost anyone with little to no effort.

They have a Patreon that makes 32k a month. Do not give me the excuse about AAA games. This is a text based game that doesn't need unreal engine or some fancy lighting system. It lives and dies on character interacts. It is not "unfair" to expect more out the devs. If anything it is more then fair to expect more with what they are working with.

Thats not really a lot.

32k x 12= 384000. Divide that by 9 (note, don't actually know how many people are on the dev team, just a ballpark number) and that's...42k a year, per person. Subtract operating costs. Subtract taxes. We're probably hovering at around...30-35k per person?

Of course, there's also the Subscribestar and Steam money (which will both probably be significantly less), but all in all, they're probably making like....slightly more than manager at a MCDonald's money.

Certainly not the average salary for a game dev in the USA which a quick google search tells me is...

You must be registered to see the links

...92k?

Now I'm not going to quibble at amount of work expected per dollar made, but saying they get what looks like a bunch of money on Patreon therefore should be expected to do more seems a bit skewed. Heck, half of them probably have other jobs.

I understand that writing is hard and stressful for the team. I'm just trying to argue that its more then fair to expect more of them.

Without context of how much they're already working, seems like drawing the line of what you personally expect from them seems arbitrary. Is there an example of someone out there putting out as much content of CoC but way more in depth?

 

[fetishgirl]

That...doesn't mean much at all. Getting on Steam is trivial. The reason a lot of h-games aren't on there is because they don't meet the content qualifications, not a quality standard.
There are ridiculously lazy and bad games on Steam. Straight up asset flips that are literally just copy and pasted other games with different titles. Being on Steam is avalaible to almost anyone with little to no effort.



Thats not really a lot.

32k x 12= 384000. Divide that by 9 (note, don't actually know how many people are on the dev team, just a ballpark number) and that's...42k a year, per person. Subtract operating costs. Subtract taxes. We're probably hovering at around...30-35k per person?

Of course, there's also the Subscribestar and Steam money (which will both probably be significantly less), but all in all, they're probably making like....slightly more than manager at a MCDonald's money.

Certainly not the average salary for a game dev in the USA which a quick google search tells me is...

You must be registered to see the links

...92k?

Now I'm not going to quibble at amount of work expected per dollar made, but saying they get what looks like a bunch of money on Patreon therefore should be expected to do more seems a bit skewed. Heck, half of them probably have other jobs.



Without context of how much they're already working, seems like drawing the line of what you personally expect from them seems arbitrary. Is there an example of someone out there putting out as much content of CoC but way more in depth?

You may have a point with the more minor members of the team and I do agree with the steam point as their quality control is really lacking these days. However with Savin himself you are wrong. He is a major part of the TiTs team he recieved funding for TiTs along with Fenoxo as well. Do you think the little content produced monthly is acceptable? I have seen 1 man devs on here hit their deadlines every month with weekly updates and they pay voice actors and artists as well as have less than half the income. It is fair for anyone to criticise the CoC 2 for underperforming when fellow H game devs are doing a much better job.I can't speak for the coding but I will agree coding for CoC 2 cannot be easy.

Don't want to go too off topic so thanks again for the leaks I know it has made me personally feel a lot more positive about the game. Do you have any idea what the next major update will be from the document?

 

[Skandranon]

Do you think the little content produced monthly is acceptable?

I don't personally think they're producing a "little content" per month is the issue here.

Just in May they put out:

3 bath NPCs (Yonzan and Noire and Klemaia)
Expansion for Livrea
Scenes for Arona+orcs, Infrith, and Marefolk Shaman
Large new expansion for Aileh, complete with kid


That's not counting the last patch which was technically part of Mayternity and came out June 2nd.

That's upwards of two hours of stuff, if you're actually doing and reading all the content. Aileh alone I know took me upwards of 30 minutes to go through. I can't think of many games here that put out even a half hour a month. Summertime Saga, one of the biggest games on here, probably puts out that amount of playtime every 4 or 5 months.

From everything I've played COC2 is easily one of the most productive games on this website in sheer quantity, if not the most.

Don't want to go too off topic so thanks again for the leaks I know it has made me personally feel a lot more positive about the game. Do you have any idea what the next major update will be from the document?

Major? Dunno.

Apparently, Savin just made Wsan write an Evelyn scene, so that should be soon. After that Wsan is going into a big project that isn't Brint's family, sooo...I'm guessing either the arena or the slums? Just a guess though.

Savin isn't done writing Ryns quest, so thats far out still.

Berwyn's quest, actually is the really big thing I've seen that should be soon. It started being coded like a month ago, SO I would think theoretically it should be this month, and has major changes for the doggie.

 

[Deleted member 1660801]

Without context of how much they're already working, seems like drawing the line of what you personally expect from them seems arbitrary. Is there an example of someone out there putting out as much content of CoC but way more in depth?

The arbitrary comment feels rather unnecessary

That...doesn't mean much at all. Getting on Steam is trivial. The reason a lot of h-games aren't on there is because they don't meet the content qualifications, not a quality standard.
There are ridiculously lazy and bad games on Steam. Straight up asset flips that are literally just copy and pasted other games with different titles. Being on Steam is available to almost anyone with little to no effort.

I think your underselling my point. Just because shitty games are on steam does not lower the quality expectation of other games. You have to fill out forms, build your page , pay fees etc. Saying their is no effort to be put into it is disingenuous because ironically enough a lot of work is put into it. Thus, at least to me making it more professional. So when I see a pateron making 32k a month, a website dedicated to the game and a fully fleshed out steam page I'm going to be expecting something more professional.

But I'm stupid and maybe your right I'm expecting too much out of estranged furries on the internet

 

[M0nte]

Speaking of hidden stuff, here is the example of variations you find in some of the code. Text by me

"Putting a hand onto his chin, you twist his head [pc.heightRange 0 67 75|downwards||upwards], forcing him to face you like the man he claims to be. What once would be a cause for him to lash out against his better judgment, is now nothing more than another sigh of the forgone conclusion that he is, in fact, yours. [someone.is fpfp
|Your never ending stare makes that fact all the more apparent for your [pc.isdcb|sissy|cowboy|cowy], for he can feel every bit of control you exude over him. All that battle hardened valor that he once proud himself on? Gone, replaced with the diminutive creature that you built for your pleasure and nothing more.
|There is no hope of escape for the strapping lad, for his future is all but a part of your legacy, so he best learn how to jive with it. And that much he understands, as his coal black eyes observe you with great amount of trepidation yet flickering adoration.
|Despite knowing what he once was, the cowboy standing in front of you fits his new role like a glove – perfect almagination of docility and loyalty and all of it packaged into an adorable little thing.
|Because of your influence, there is none of that misguided aggression or machismo. None. All of it replaced with something resembling a genuine improvement in behavior and character. And some actual sexual proficiency as a partner.
] Gods, why keep yourself waiting when you can indulge in the fruits of your labor?"

And let me tell you, writing for Ryn or Berwyn makes one reconsider their choice in hobbies.

"|"Ummmmm, Champion, I am going to take a walk if you do not mind." Ryn whispers to your [pc.ears], not wanting to be heard by the [pc.dcb|mut|hellohound|pup] that is watching you two with great interest. "I, ummm, just do not feel comfortable around Estus." she finishes, fidgeting in place as if trying to brush off a sense of guilt for [pc.isDK||seemingly] wasting your time.

[ryn.libidoRange 0 50
|[pc.dcb
|Still, you understand. Despite how meek and unassuming she can end up being, she is still, in fact, royalty so there is no need for her to mingle with the[ryn.married|current and former ]peasants. For, of course, she has her image to uphold. So go on, off she goes.
|Oh, the poor girl is too dependent on you to act on her behalf. [pc.corruptionRange 0 40|She should relax and spend her free time however she wants.|Aint that precious? So precious that you will allow it.
|[pc.corruptionRange 40
|Oh dear you, why is she justifying herself to you like you are her consciousness? She should live a little and do whatever her heart desires – for her sake.|Oh, it is so nice of her to consider your opinion in the matter. She certainly may.]"

I think that one of the faults of the system is also that it is hard to tell when your choices affect certain things. But most of the time, they are there.

 

[Skandranon]

The arbitrary comment feels rather unnecessary

I don't think so? It's kinda the main crux of what I'm saying, actually.

Saying "there's not enough being done" just doesn't make much sense with no actual context for what "enough" looks like, or is a reasonable amount to expect.

I think your underselling my point. Just because shitty games are on steam does not lower the quality expectation of other games. You have to fill out forms, build your page , pay fees etc. Saying their is no effort to be put into it is disingenuous because ironically enough a lot of work is put into it.

Its a hundred dollars and some paperwork, and some relatively . It's just...not exactly an insurmountable task. It's not an indicator as to the quality of any game on Steam, positive or negative.

Thus, at least to me making it more professional. So when I see a pateron making 32k a month, a website dedicated to the game and a fully fleshed out steam page I'm going to be expecting something more professional.

Professional, meaning...what? Regular updates? Fairly bug free game? Large amount of content? Adhering to an approximate deadline? Lack of scope creep?

 

[Daken9]

Ngl TLDR this whole debacle but



Me want

 

[arls120]

It would be great if brint had male brothers. At least his father is still here, so there is still hope.

 

[M0nte]

It would be great if brint had male brothers. At least his father is still here, so there is still hope.

I don't think that we are ever going to meet him. I do hope we do...

 

[Raf-Raf]

Why must the pic not load!!!
Nuuuuuu-