Others Corruption of Champions II [v0.7.27] [Savin/Salamander Studios]

[jfmherokiller]

Cross Busted by powfoo, specifically chapter 2.

this feels like brint and the mc relationship or ateast some parts of minotaur moutain

 

[Orphanus]

I dunno, I agree with you but at the same time imo I feel like the problem is less the writing in particular and more of some of the original writers' projects being overshadowed by the newer wave, making the older projects stick out horribly. What I mean is compare aileh and freja to kiyoko and kinu. Directly connected to story and other romantic interest, better parent sim, no forced parental issues, can interact with and name kid, varied smut scenes.

And also if the foundation is weak what's built on top suffers. if you have a scene by wsan, continuing the current course, where you go on a date with brint/brienne and they hug and bang mc or you propose to them and it's a very emotional moment, it's a safe bet people will be happy and might make people who were on the fence like them because they've already been made likeable and are getting more reasons.

if tobs made more kiyoko content, most likely it would have the same or more of her abrasive comments and personality and would appeal primarily to people who would like it regardless. If he attempted to give kiyoko a character arc where she respected your character, was harsher on people who insult you, was more proactive with you and *wanted* you to join her in doing stuff together besides smut, and honestly just retconned the entire novella, then to make her as near universally likeable for her niche as brienne is now without altering what's already there you'd need double the work. To change her to a "neutral" reception where maybe it's not super common to like her but she's not worse the more you observe her actions, then to create moments to build player attachment like briennes little date moments, seeking you out and saying she needs you etc. (Which you'd think a kitsune would do when they're hungry and married to you). That's unlikely but possible. Issue is that's the case with several characters now, see caits reception for the past however many years, the marriage scene fiasco, stuff like the lusamine gangbang while you wait outside scene etc etc

I think the root of the issues is that the writers aren't forced by Savin to adhere to the "CYO" aspect that supposedly is 1 of the core things of the game. Instead they are encouraged to just "write what they want" which, at first sight, might seem like a reasonable approach, but on a second look turns out to be just an expression of lack of professionalism. You can't create interactive fiction when you allow the writers to just constantly add stuff that is nothing but their own, personal, fanfiction. There has to be a certain degree of discipline and I feel as if the writers don't get enough clear directions what has to be included and especially not forced to do it. The problem is that that equals to simply not doing your job properly, which would get you fired normally. Savin, though, seems to struggle to understand that business and personal friendships only go along up to a certain point. If your employees start to act out towards your customers, cause they can't take criticism (and have been told 1 too many times that they are basically the Tolkien of smut) you need to enforce certain limits to their behavior. If not for Patreon (and the problems that come with getting limitless money for basically "nothing") CoC 2 would have flopped badly by now.

I do agree with what you say as well, though, of course it doesn't really work to add good stuff on a pile of poop. In regards to the Kitsune stuff (which I think is 1 of the weakest parts of the game for sure) I will say that it's not about changing what exists (cause I truly don't want those who like it in it's current form to be fucked over just cause a majority of players seem to loath it) but about getting his act together, stop being a freakin baby that's deadly offended by people not praising every word he wrote, and add alternative ways for the player character to act towards the Kitsune & especially in regards to Kiyoko & Kinu being ungrateful pieces of crap. It's that lack of actual choices that make the game fail to remotely meet it's advertised features.

 

[Orphanus]

There's a few game I've seen try to copy coc, some try to be more degenerate but in a really lazy way like just having more futas, or adding beastiality(god why?) or go more vanilla by removing futas. Upsettingly most are written worse than this game because they don't try to fix any problems with coc and only add to them, only good one I found was Lilith's Throne and that suffers from the dev putting out really small updates between months long waits. By small I mean the most recent update was like a month or two ago and added a single step to a story quest and changed some minor bugs with clothing. Starting to think this genre of game is cursed.

I think people tend to underestimate how hard it is to write branching stories where the reader basically influences the story that is told by their decision. In my personal opinion it's actually way harder to write something for a CYOA game than it is to just write a story by yourself. Add to that that it is also not that easy to write great smut when you aren't comparably literate and you end up with what you describe.

 

[MoneyMan181]

and have been told 1 too many times that they are basically the Tolkien of smut)

I could not think of a bigger insult to Tolkien.

I think people tend to underestimate how hard it is to write branching stories where the reader basically influences the story that is told by their decision. In my personal opinion it's actually way harder to write something for a CYOA game than it is to just write a story by yourself. Add to that that it is also not that easy to write great smut when you aren't comparably literate and you end up with what you describe.

Ordinarily I would agree, but the choices you make in these games are usually pretty isolated. They're almost always contained to just each characters story/interactions and the ones that don't, are usually simplistic, I.E. just blowing up planets in TiTS. Your actions almost never affect your interactions with other characters or the world around you. That and most characters just don't have many choices besides sex scenes/dialogue fluff. Thus, while it obviously is more work than just making a linear story/characters, I do think you're overselling what the devs do just a little bit.

I feel like the main reason a decent competitor hasn't cropped up yet is because these games are niche and most people into them are just satisfied with the ongoing projects, simple as. There are a lot writers out there that write smut, I don't think finding talent is the issue.

Had a whole rant typed up complaining more about the whole CYOA aspect of the game but that's pretty off-topic lmao.

 

[Orphanus]

I could not think of a bigger insult to Tolkien.

Ordinarily I would agree, but the choices you make in these games are usually pretty isolated. They're almost always contained to just each characters story/interactions and the ones that don't, are usually simplistic, I.E. just blowing up planets in TiTS. Your actions almost never affect your interactions with other characters or the world around you. That and most characters just don't have many choices besides sex scenes/dialogue fluff. Thus, while it obviously is more work than just making a linear story/characters, I do think you're overselling what the devs do just a little bit.

I feel like the main reason a decent competitor hasn't cropped up yet is because these games are niche and most people into them are just satisfied with the ongoing projects, simple as. There are a lot writers out there that write smut, I don't think finding talent is the issue.

Had a whole rant typed up complaining more about the whole CYOA aspect of the game but that's pretty off-topic lmao.

I don't disagree, I simply think that the crew around Savin refuses to acknowledge what you say. I wouldn't be that acidic about it if they wouldn't advertise CoC 2 as some sort of deep, choice based RPG that just also is smut. The fact is, as probably anyone else can tell, that the game is basically just smut with some fantasy story tagged onto it. The game had the chance to be what they claim it is when it all started and it actually had some meaningful decisions (I count even those that just influence the scenes afterwards, not everything has to be world-changing levels of consequences/variety) in the way that you could tell the difference between the choices afterwards. It lost the chance when they started to just patch together stuff the writers felt like writing one day, before doing something entirely different the next day, leading to a structure very similar to TiTS. The problem with that is that the structure works really well there due to the setting (individual planets etc.) and the fact that the overarching story doesn't try to be anything more than a vague, common theme mostly in the background. In CoC 2 it becomes painfully apparent that the individual scenes, characters and writing styles simply don't fit together too well. And the way they tried to cut corners was just the worst possible, making it so that the scenes try to make the player character act and come across as generic, unimportant and exchangeable as possible, just so that the authors can write whatever without giving the slightest fuck about the very realistic possibility that the players might have very varied feelings and reactions to their scenes is, in my opinion, unbelievably short sighted.

 

[Wrynn13]

I could not think of a bigger insult to Tolkien.

I can, and it's what Amazon is doing to his baby right now.

 

[Ranma]

I can, and it's what Amazon is doing to his baby right now.

BIG OOF

 

[arls120]

would brint or Quin make good fathers?

Based on the little content they have in the pregnancy scenes and the way their authors write it, I would say that they would not be completely perfect, but I highly doubt that a situation similar to Kinu's would occur.

 

[M0nte]

would brint or Quin make good fathers?

Sure. They are just not type of guys I want to end up with. Telling me how special I am to them while in the next flat over there is another girl carrying his kids.

 

[Daken9]

Dunno about Brint but quint is shit at everything else, so i'd assume he'd be shit at being a father too.

 

[Orphanus]

Based on the little content they have in the pregnancy scenes and the way their authors write it, I would say that they would not be completely perfect, but I highly doubt that a situation similar to Kinu's would occur.

Which probably has to do with the fact that they aren't written by The Observer first and foremost.

 

[arls120]

Sure. They are just not type of guys I want to end up with. Telling me how special I am to them while in the next flat over there is another girl carrying his kids.

I'm still of the opinion that as long as Brint doesn't recognize those kids I can pretend they don't exist.

At least Quint is clearer on the subject and sends a hint that he only has plans to have children with you. (although this may be a google translator error)

 

[Rocky Pineapple Rhythm]

Bless your heart, Sweet Summer Child

 

[M0nte]

I

Long as they have a nice ass, I'm pretty amenable. Berwyn is my favorite male character so probably in that ballpark for best results personality wise.

Mostly straight I guess. If it's feminine enough then it'll do it for me. I wouldn't go out with a guy irl but I've seen traps cute enough to confuse my dick. Basically:
View attachment 2070734

So would you say that Quin (ignoring his personality) would be the your upper limit when it comes to big botty twinks?

hmm one which has a biig juicy butt. a bit like lyric but taller and less adoring fan personality. so probably Lyric at maybe Quint hight and personality.

Damn, everyone here wants a guy that looks like Quin without him being Quin. Heh.

 

[Skandranon]

Eventually we're supposed to be able to tweak Lyrics attributes like his height.

One of the many projects B has brewing.

 

[ha.]

This is the first post I've ever made on this site, I barely (if ever) post anywhere but I was so intrigued I just had to ask.

Is there anyone here who's been around for a while in this thread? And if so, I'd like to know why exactly there is contention around the game's writers. I've given the conversation a cursive glance and don't fully understand it, so I'd greatly appreciate if someone experienced could outline why there's hate/animosity/annoyance with some of the writers.

Mainly in regards to Savin? Either way, I've "played" CoC2 for a decent amount of time but haven't touched it in a while, but I don't remember there being anything particularly egregious with the writing. Although I'm not a writer. I enjoyed Zo though.

 

[destroyerofassholes]

This is the first post I've ever made on this site, I barely (if ever) post anywhere but I was so intrigued I just had to ask.

Is there anyone here who's been around for a while in this thread? And if so, I'd like to know why exactly there is contention around the game's writers. I've given the conversation a cursive glance and don't fully understand it, so I'd greatly appreciate if someone experienced could outline why there's hate/animosity/annoyance with some of the writers.

Mainly in regards to Savin? Either way, I've "played" CoC2 for a decent amount of time but haven't touched it in a while, but I don't remember there being anything particularly egregious with the writing. Although I'm not a writer. I enjoyed Zo though.

This has been explained about 50 times throughout the thread, this is not the first this has been asked, nor will it be the last. I don't blame you though, F95's search option fucking sucks, and even then, how would one even search that as a topic? I've been here from close to the beginning and this is my personal opinion on the whole thing, though others will see it differently.

The answer is most people here like the game one way or the other. Most of the rants here are in good fun, exaggerated because it's fun to rant.
The main reason why it might look so vitriolic from the outside is simply that it's cause and effect. Fen forums, and savin's own discord are complete echo-chambers. So this thread is kind of the opposite by nature. The hate for the writers comes from the way they act if you ever see them in the forums or their DC, they're incredibly, incredibly toxic and insecure people. Many of them write shit just to spite their critics. Literally.

You can't criticize the writers in any way in their own turf, so we kinda take it a bit far here. Savin generally gets shit on for being a terrible, terrible manager and leader (and also cuck accusations, and for writing his favored character into literally every scene ever), Tobs gets shit on for being a complete narcissist and writing entire shitty novels in a porn game because he just can't get his shit read otherwise, Bubbles is a spaz, and so on and so forth. All the writers are mostly dicks in their day to day demeanour, so when someone wants to rant, there's an endless source. Also a lotta the people here prefer CoC 1, though I'm of the belief that most of us are addled by nostalgia in regards to that.

Used to be that this place was less hateful and more rant-y in a fun kind of way, but over time people who truly hate SavCo with a burning passion have actually made this place more like the stereotype that it's known for, that we just mindlessly hate.

Either way, everyone here is passionate in some way about the game, and even those who do nothing but shit on it only do so because they care. I myself love the game, it's unique, but the writers are complete assholes and dregs of society, and there's a lot to be improved. Frankly, even with all its vitriol, this is still the best place to discuss CoC2, because people aren't so utterly afraid, and contrary to what it might seem, we do like (parts) of the game.

 

[Wrynn13]

Personally I love the idea of what the game could have been but not what CuckCo did with it. And Coc1 is objectively better just because player agency.

 

[jfmherokiller]

Eventually we're supposed to be able to tweak Lyrics attributes like his height.

One of the many projects B has brewing.

wait REALLY? holy that would be amazing

 

[MoneyMan181]

This is the first post I've ever made on this site, I barely (if ever) post anywhere but I was so intrigued I just had to ask.

Is there anyone here who's been around for a while in this thread? And if so, I'd like to know why exactly there is contention around the game's writers. I've given the conversation a cursive glance and don't fully understand it, so I'd greatly appreciate if someone experienced could outline why there's hate/animosity/annoyance with some of the writers.

Mainly in regards to Savin? Either way, I've "played" CoC2 for a decent amount of time but haven't touched it in a while, but I don't remember there being anything particularly egregious with the writing. Although I'm not a writer. I enjoyed Zo though.

I haven't been here super long, but I can give you a sparknotes version:

• TOBS' writing is complete shit yet he acts like he's the second coming of GRRM. The vast majority of his content(Kitsune Den and Gweyr's quest) are completely off when it comes to tone/relevance to existing content. He is hypocritical, rude, and dismissive towards valid criticism, even when said criticism is being generally agreed upon. He made Kinu(and by association Kiyoko) a horribly unlikable mess just because some person wanted incest content. He now commissions art of her being fucked by what I assume is his self-insert character and parades that around out of spite as if that's something to be proud of. He also goes on record saying people can't put non-erotic submissions into the game yet he writes text walls about things that don't even pertain to your character.
• I forget the exact words but Savin insulted everybody that uses this board, regardless of people like Skandranon(a person who used to regularly defend the game) existing. It's also very apparent that Savin does not know how to properly run the project when you think about needless content inflation, how he conducts himself and his peers on discord/forums, him going behind another writer's back to commission a rape scene of their beloved companion and putting it into the game, arguably unjustly kicking a writer from the project, not making sure there's a cohesive style or theme to the game, etc. I'm sure there's a lot more I'm missing with him but that's all that immediately comes to mind.
• Bubblelord is essentially TOBS but somehow way worse. There were quite a few screenshots of how he acted in the FenForums posted a while back, maybe you can find them. I replied to it, but maybe the mods nuked that part of the thread, I'm not sure.

I know I missed a lot but I don't feel like wracking my brain on this stuff, anybody else can add whatever they feel is missing. To me, the only devs I really have a problem with are those 3. The others are just victims of the leadership they're under, especially Wsan.

Most of the rants here are in good fun, exaggerated because it's fun to rant.

Honestly besides my own, I haven't even seen many rants these days. Guess people just gave up when it comes to shitting on the game, which I don't blame 'em for.

Personally I love the idea of what the game could have been but not what CuckCo did with it. And Coc1 is objectively better just because player agency.

Pretty much this. The game had amazing potential, more than enough to be better than both TiTS and CoC1. They just fucked it up in so many countless ways. Really might've even been one of my favorite pieces of media but instead we just got...this.

You must be registered to see the links