Others Corruption of Champions II [v0.7.31] [Savin/Salamander Studios]

[thecatcameback]

Shadow the Edge Fox over in the Kitsune tree can handle Kas too.

 

[Tau_Iota]

Spoiler: I was being facetious

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I was unaware you meant Calise, but quite a few people are capable of wiping Kas no problem. The ones that come to mind first are the Baroness and the sleepy snake. I'm almost positive there's more though.

Also, *do. No need to be facetious.

 

[NaturalEnclave]

She's literally a child raised and gaslit by a cult she thinks is a righteous religion that raises kids to be literal prostitutes serving a deity, good luck telling me incest is worse than that, ain't no way I'm building that temple after realizing that before.

Honestly, I think it's one part of the lore I totally skipped over. It is kinda fucked up. Seriously, all they needed to do to make it probably alright is to just make it a part of their culture or something. Ain't nothing wrong with a fantasy race/nation that treats sex as something casual and something they should spread. Then just make Cait join the religion willingly and establish that the religion is the result of this culture being so open to sex. I don't get why they needed to make this part of bubbly, cheerful cat girl this dark, as if it's supposed to be a serious commentary on the nature and potential danger religion or something.

She's also written to be this in-your-face love interest that any shallow player will definitely be a fan favorite

I mean, I am a bit shallow, so I am fine with her, thought if I had to pick an actual favorite it would probably be Lusamine even thought she isn't the most brilliant character. She is fun and has a nice design and that's enough for me.

You can tell Cait in her face that you bang Kasyrra and you prefer it that way, she won't give a shit aside from the "You bad bad" line.
There goes her morals and any would-be character depth of actually thinking and feeling like a character who actually gives a shit about something.

To me this defo feels like the game being completely unable to commit to serious consequences because it would require massive plot changes they aren't willing to make. Kinda how in

Spoiler: Fallout 3

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The amount of changes they would probably have to make to account for Cait leaving is too big. And, much worse for Savin, it means that a huge portion of the playerbase might lose Cait and her content forever and this is not something he can allow.

 

[Raf-Raf]

Honestly, I think it's one part of the lore I totally skipped over. It is kinda fucked up. Seriously, all they needed to do to make it probably alright is to just make it a part of their culture or something. Ain't nothing wrong with a fantasy race/nation that treats sex as something casual and something they should spread. Then just make Cait join the religion willingly and establish that the religion is the result of this culture being so open to sex. I don't get why they needed to make this part of bubbly, cheerful cat girl this dark, as if it's supposed to be a serious commentary on the nature and potential danger religion or something.


I mean, I am a bit shallow, so I am fine with her, thought if I had to pick an actual favorite it would probably be Lusamine even thought she isn't the most brilliant character. She is fun and has a nice design and that's enough for me.


To me this defo feels like the game being completely unable to commit to serious consequences because it would require massive plot changes they aren't willing to make. Kinda how in

Spoiler: Fallout 3

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The amount of changes they would probably have to make to account for Cait leaving is too big. And, much worse for Savin, it means that a huge portion of the playerbase might lose Cait and her content forever and this is not something he can allow.

I mean, they also suffer the classic case of Indie-game-itis where dark / sad = DEEP characters.
It's like making a souls NPC except they're just depressed with nothing behind it.

Ayo, I see that you're also interested in the exceedingly rare ones.
Though I don't think we'll ever get that questline to make 'er fertile.

Expecting these devs to write a grand lore that actually makes sense is the same as expecting the same asteroid that killed the dinosaurs to hit again.
Funnily enough, it's choices like those that makes a character actually feel like one.

Just like the fellow that used Dragon Age Origins as an example.
Best bro Alistair won't give a shit no matter how close you two are if you want to make Loghain alive.
The CoC2 counterpart of that should've been the part where we confess that we're banging Kasyrra.
It's like her "caring" for her sister is more of a plot device with more plot holes than a cheese wheel while the writers actually forgot that she is a character in the first place.

 

[mrttao]

I am going to throw (another) hot take, but on the topic of Cait... I actually do not hate the healslut as much as everyone else.

There is "character as a person (pretend they are real)" and "character as a fictional entity created by author for a reason".

Cait reminds me of Sasuke. In that, if they were a real person I wouldn't hate them. I would pity susuke, and in cait's case I would pity and be disgusted by her. (certainly wouldn't try to waifu her).

However, she is not a real person, she is a fictional character. That can elicit hate. I hate what she represents, and what the authors are doing

 

[Hachikaido]

In CoC1 and TiTS, the MC initially has something that they need to do. Something that drives them throughout their long journey. Even if it's skewed by the player's choices or the story itself. Whether it's saving your village by being a champion in another world or finding your dad's keys across the universe to reclaim your birth rite, it's still something that pushes the MC forward.

In CoC2, they is no such goal. There's no real rhyme or reason for the MC to do what they are doing. From what I remember, the MC was just passing through Hawkethorne and wanted a place to stay for the night. They were on their own journey. Doing what? No one knows. But it came to a halt when a pink catgirl asked for help finding her sister. That's it. There was no pre-existing goal, no driving force behind why MC was even there in the first place. This is just a sidequest that's gone on way too long. Because once her sister is found, the quest is over. There's no longer a real reason to stay.

It has nothing to do with Cait being the town's bike and not the MC's personal pocket pussy, but has everything to do with the adventure being solely based on whether or not her sister is found. The main goal and drive of the entire adventure is Cait's not the MC's. Think about everything the MC has done up to this point. Cait heavily suggests tasks because it could lead to freeing her sister, whether she initiated it or another charater asked for help.

That is some bs and you know it. In every single game, our main goal is thrust upon the champion. In COC1 the MC is isekaid on purpose. We are one of many expendable soldiers "chosen" (you are not special, you're fodder) and sent off to the pits of hell in the hopes of stopping a demonic threat from taking over one dimension and possibly others. Getting Hells Paradise vibes now that I think about this.

In TITS, we are given the goal of our father, who fucked his way through the galaxy. You are genetically created to be a perfect copy of himself except you are bigger (nice cock), smarter, and more able to pleasure and inseminate more aliens than he could ever dream of. You're just living the life of your father, you're not the one who chose to do this, you are being forced by your dad to do it or you will lose your inheritance to some stuck-up bitch with daddy issues of their own.

Finally, there is COC2, where the MC this time through his own choice chooses to aid in something he thought would resolve in a day only to be sucked into something much much bigger. Unlike the last two games, you have multiple end-point goals. Find Calla and the same goal of the first COC in stopping the growing corruption with the possibility of aiding it if one were to choose to do so.

None of these goals for any of these games are anything to write home about but you have to remember one key thing. These people are not novelists or poets, they are writers of smut.

With that piece done, I wanted to ask why you even brought that up? I don't even know why you even brought up this point when the main thing he said was that people just did not like Cait sleeping around even though the MC of all three games does the same. Sure maybe you might not care for Cait and that might be why her being in the game is a flaw, but I've been on this thread for a long time to know that when people here start talking about Cait, they rarely if ever are talking about her importance to the lore of the story. There is no reason to put up a half-assed defense like she is basically the MC of the game when her main story has been barely touched. Just let people be honest, you don't need to defend them, there have already been people here who have not been afraid to say that they don't like Cait because they sleep around and that it ruins their experience. There is no shame in admitting that, they warn you for that exact reason so you can choose to never associate romantically with her in any way.

TLDR None of these game's stories, specifically any of their MC's goals are anything spectacular and stop pretending like they are just to avoid calling Cait a whore. She's a whore and she is a proud one.

 

[Alterism]

It has nothing to do with Cait being the town's bike and not the MC's personal pocket pussy, but has everything to do with the adventure being solely based on whether or not her sister is found.

Look, far be it from me to defend bad characters. But, Cait's motivation and the MC's goals are completely different. She's not nearly that important (content favoritism aside). Your quest is to go stop Kasyrra. The goal at least conceptually is the same as CoC1's MC to stop Lethice. Cait is just the kill rats sidequest that gets you out the door into the greater quest. Which is to go to Kasyrra and stop her. Unless you romance her in which case your quest is to... still do the same thing but I guess use the wooden sticks.

The premise is the same, the execution is where everything fucks up. Which, Yes this does impact the narrative but not for the reasons you're claiming.
CoC1's protag had no bigger or better plan for beating Lethice besides going there and doing it. Much the same as CoC2's protag.

The difference is in execution. (And I guess player control)

you're not the one who chose to do this, you are being forced by your dad to do it or you will lose your inheritance to some stuck-up bitch with daddy issues of their own.

Excluding the numerous endings where you just stop doing your quest of your own volition because you don't actually care about it. Yes, yes, "not cannon". The MC and player both have a lot more control of their own quest. The vast majority of TiTS that you can engage with you do so only because you want to. When you're down their swashbuckling with pirates and natives, you're doing this because you wanted to. You don't have to and the story and the sidequest(s) progresses with various outcomes depending on what you did or did not want to do.

even though the MC of all three games does the same.

I'm sure I don't need to explain to you why a player controlled MC doing something and an NPC doing something are completely different in regards to player reception and relevance. Such a thing is as simple to understand as the difference between "giving" and "receiving".

you have multiple end-point goals.

Caits sidequest is not your end-point goal. It's a sidequest. That's like saying aiding "marae" is an endpoint goal when she falls out of the story after you help her with the factory and afterwards you're completely on your own.
Neither is Etheryn's nonsense where you effectively do everything important while another character reaps all of the rewards (But with decidedly less finesse than White Knight Chronicles).

You've got one end goal. Don't lose your soul by foiling Kas' plans/reign her in.

Lastly:

None of these game's stories, specifically any of their MC's goals are anything spectacular and stop pretending like they are just to avoid calling Cait a whore. She's a whore and she is a proud one.

Couldn't agree more.
Except CoC1 and TiTs aren't trying to be narrative focused games with large expansive interwoven plots. They're sandbox games that exist in service to the player with what story there is serving to enhance your experience. This is what allows them to have large amounts of variance in player entertainment and available options.

CoC2 isn't that. It's an on rails narrative experience where most problems have a single solution and instead of options consisting of Content(A) or Content(B) you choose between Content or nothing. Heh.

 

[thecatcameback]

Still wishing there was a mode where you team up with Kas and Alissa to wreck shit and remove baldy from the world if you don't follow after Cait.

 

[MoneyMan181]

That is some bs and you know it. In every single game, our main goal is thrust upon the champion.

That doesn't change anything? The argument was that the previous games had more obvious and tangible reasoning for being on the adventure they're on. It being thrust onto them doesn't suddenly invalidate that.

None of these goals for any of these games are anything to write home about but you have to remember one key thing. These people are not novelists or poets, they are writers of smut.

So then don't make a story that's so in your face. This was not a problem in previous games.

TLDR None of these game's stories, specifically any of their MC's goals are anything spectacular and stop pretending like they are just to avoid calling Cait a whore. She's a whore and she is a proud one.

Nobody said anything about the quality of the stories in these games. Everybody knows they're flimsy excuses to just have a smut adventure. People think Cait is more of an MC than us because she has an actual goal(that doesn't get incredibly muddied by romancing the main fucking villain), is the reason the plot gets kicked off, is a Mary Sue, forces herself into a lot of content randomly, and is an obvious dev pet. I don't agree with the view, but I do understand why someone would think that way.

People can like or dislike something for more than one reason. Get off your high horse.

 

[Wrynn13]

Big difference between hating a character and hating how a character is used. I don't refuse to let Cait join my party cause I hate the character, I do it to spite Savin.

 

[Walk Cycle]

That the wolf from tits? Ngl never even gave her a chance. Soon as i realized she was one of Savin's and his tried and true two dollar skank archetype to boot i was out of her shop in 2.6 seconds

You're missing out, she's the best merchant in the game and as the other guy said, offers up a bunch of people to bang. I don't hate "Savin's Skanks" because they straight up tell you they sleep around and you shouldn't expect a monogamous relationship with them. And that's fine, my Champion/Steele gets weak-kneed every time he comes across a dominant woman/futa and ends up as a heaving mess after they're done with him. If my Champion/Steele is such a slut why would I be mad that Anno/Cait sleeps around?

 

[Deviton123]

Asking the player to suspend their disbelief once for a "champion that is better than you, can ggez the BBEG" is a bit much, but possible.

You know what show does that but does it so much better than COC2? Goblin Slayer. The MC isn't the chosen one or the most powerful adventurer around, but the shit he does still influences the world in some way and people will go to him if help is needed within his area of expertise. There's also a shit ton of scenes that make him look as badass as possible, but the authors of COC2 would never do something like that, probably because they can't. It doesn't help that the people who support them for whatever reason like feeling like a chump when they wanna escape reality to play an RPG.

 

[Hachikaido]

Caits sidequest is not your end-point goal. It's a sidequest.

Would be great if that were the case, then all the champions would at least feel equal in importance to the story. But that isn't the case if what people here are saying is true regarding how Cait's story is the narrative thread leading to confronting Kas among other major plot points. While I'm usually one not to take these things seriously, part of me is inclined to believe it since her story is moving at the slowest pace, otherwise I can't fathom why else there has not been more stuff if not because it's integral to the major story points coming up in the future or end of the series. One of these days I'll just bite the bullet and join the discord to spoil myself on all the storylines.

The vast majority of TiTS that you can engage with you do so only because you want to. When you're down their swashbuckling with pirates and natives, you're doing this because you wanted to. You don't have to and the story and the sidequest(s) progresses with various outcomes depending on what you did or did not want to do.


I'm sure I don't need to explain to you why a player controlled MC doing something and an NPC doing something are completely different in regards to player reception and relevance. Such a thing is as simple to understand as the difference between "giving" and "receiving".

Also, don't look to deeply into this, I could go on on about the problems of each game. Like when you said you are creating your own quest for TITs. I would hardly consider that the sidequest counts as part of your quest. They are more minigames than anything, in relation to their importance or outcome towards the world. It only feels like a part of your quest because and this is an important part of enjoying these text games: you are roleplaying, you fill in missing details, and ponder on scenarios that might have led you into a certain mess. You might have been a heroic "swashbuckling" tale with the natives, and another person could have been coldly monitoring any weakness in the natives that would allow Steele Tech to swiftly take over and reap benefits over the resource-rich Mhen'ga. These miniguns (Edit: minigames, but I got a chuckle from it so I'll leave it) are often vague enough that you could turn the outcome into a good or bad one for your Steele.

But I digress, I'm just the type of person to kick the shins of people who want their cake while stuffing themselves. I wanted to discuss the main goals of the mc, and the obfuscation happening in the thread. If people are gonna say the MC does not have a goal of their own I'm gonna bust their balls for being stupid. I'm well aware of the wanting of a power fantasy, and having the whole story revolve around them. Player agency blah blah, I get it, but like I said before I want to kick people's shins. If people want to share their reason on an online forum for wanting a character to be a certain way just to fulfill their own story I'll go out of my way to tell them to go write their own story. Because this is meant to cater to lots of people, not just (you).

 

[Tau_Iota]

You know what show does that but does it so much better than COC2? Goblin Slayer. The MC isn't the chosen one or the most powerful adventurer around, but the shit he does still influences the world in some way and people will go to him if help is needed within his area of expertise. There's also a shit ton of scenes that make him look as badass as possible, but the authors of COC2 would never do something like that, probably because they can't. It doesn't help that the people who support them for whatever reason like feeling like a chump when they wanna escape reality to play an RPG.

I keep hearing that Goblin Slayer is so good, but I always end up watching/playing something else instead lmao The MC does look dope af though.

These miniguns are often vague enough that you could turn the outcome into a good or bad one for your Steele.

Ah the ol' Schrodinger's Minigun. You don't know if it's a good minigun or a bad minigun until you fire it

If people want to share their reason on an online forum for wanting a character to be a certain way just to fulfill their own story I'll go out of my way to tell them to go write their own story. Because this is meant to cater to lots of people, not just (you).

People wanting a role to play in their RPG aside from being Yes-Man isn't the biggest thing in the world to ask for. This game wanted to be a story-heavy game, and so must deal with the criticisms story-heavy games get. There's a reason why you don't see very many Dragon Quest Vs floating around (you quite literally are not The Hero in that game). Oblivion manages it in some respects, Martin Septim is very much the Chosen One (he's the one who defeats Mehrunes Dagon) but it's acknowledged that he would never have gotten that far without you. Kingdom Come: Deliverance is in the same boat, you're never not the son of a blacksmith. Sure you become a squire to a Lord, but you're still relatively low on the totem pole. However, once again that Lord would be absolutely lost without you. CoC2 seems like it's trying this method, but it's incredibly hard to both do that and make it enjoyable. KC: D gives you plenty of other things to do to really make you feel like someone, such as learning how to read. Oblivion does you one better, and lets you become a Daedric Prince in one of the greatest DLCs ever made.

 

[Lucky_I]

You know what show does that but does it so much better than COC2? Goblin Slayer. The MC isn't the chosen one or the most powerful adventurer around, but the shit he does still influences the world in some way and people will go to him if help is needed within his area of expertise. There's also a shit ton of scenes that make him look as badass as possible, but the authors of COC2 would never do something like that, probably because they can't. It doesn't help that the people who support them for whatever reason like feeling like a chump when they wanna escape reality to play an RPG.

I disagree. I belive the Champion does plenty that results in a lot of influence.

We saved the centaur, marefolk, and orc tribes and married both heirs to the horse tribes and made the orc tribe leader our bitch. We saved the elf city, save and helped their runaway royal heir, overthrow the corrupt ruler, made said heir become the new ruler, and was given titles, a fort(that you cleared out), and are basically the royal consort as a result. Not to mention having a hand in having the druids and elves truce with one another. And sooner or later we're going to save ANOTHER city, become that city's champion, become champion of a colosseum to marry one of the king's legion commanders. I wouldn't be surprised if we ended being another royal consort.

And I'm pretty sure most of the quests we get come from people asking for our help as either a result of what we accomplished or...because we happened to be there but video games be like that.

 

[Xigbarounet]

I agree with most of what's been said about Cait. I don't care if she has her own sex life, especially considering her background, but I DO dislike when the writers just feel the strange need to remind me at every possible occasion they find that she's getting it on with every single dick in a 1km radius at any given time.

But I have to say that I really enjoy her sex scenes, they're pretty hot, straight to the point, and relatively short compared to a good bunch of most recent stuff. Reading through them doesn't feel like a chore unlike some other companions. Probably has to do with her being one of the earliest character.

 

[Hachikaido]

That doesn't change anything? The argument was that the previous games had more obvious and tangible reasoning for being on the adventure they're on. It being thrust onto them doesn't suddenly invalidate that.

This person said and I quote " In CoC2, there is no such goal. There's no real rhyme or reason for the MC to do what they are doing." The goal of COC and COC2 are the same exact thing, their not even trying to hide it. There was nothing obvious or tangible about it in both cases, because you the player took control of the MC at a certain point in their life and both you and them knew fuck all about what was really happening in the world they were sent into or are currently in. I don't know if it's because the game got a conclusion that you think they had more ambitious goals through rp scenarios you had while playing but nope there was not such a thing. If you are going to say one goal is lacking then the same applies to the other.

So then don't make a story that's so in your face. This was not a problem in previous games.

And to that, I'll say, suck it up and avoid it, so that it's not in your face. You have the option to, why complain? The gentleman or gentlewoman above me said it best. "COC2 is a narrative game", you're not gonna be able to rp through as much as you could in the former games, but like the former games. If there was something you did not like you could avoid it.

Nobody said anything about the quality of the stories in these games. Everybody knows they're flimsy excuses to just have a smut adventure. People think Cait is more of an MC than us because she has an actual goal(that doesn't get incredibly muddied by romancing the main fucking villain), is the reason the plot gets kicked off, is a Mary Sue, forces herself into a lot of content randomly, and is an obvious dev pet. I don't agree with the view, but I do understand why someone would think that way.

People can like or dislike something for more than one reason. Get off your high horse.

It fascinates me how close you were to getting it, then took a full 180. The story is not important, people can think Cait's goal is more important or fulfilling goal than conquering the queen of demons through combat or pure rizz. I'm saying people are just bringing lore they don't care about, to say why their mad an NPC is sleeping with other people. I know they don't care about it because they can't even realize that the MC has the same goal copied and pasted straight from COC

Nobody said anything about the quality of the stories in these games. Everybody knows they're flimsy excuses to just have a smut adventure. People think Cait is more of an MC than us because she has an actual goal(that doesn't get incredibly muddied by romancing the main fucking villain), is the reason the plot gets kicked off, is a Mary Sue, forces herself into a lot of content randomly, and is an obvious dev pet. I don't agree with the view, but I do understand why someone would think that way.

Also of course they are a dev pet, a dev writes for them. They are their character and should strive to put in as much effort into them, just like how Ryn is a dev pet, her author puts way too much time into her but I'm not complaining because it means more content. The same goes for Kiyoko and Brint/Brienne who by far had the most content out of the bunch. Until recently, Ryn got expac so that might not be true anymore. Even you admit you don't agree with that view. Like them, I'm expressing my opinion about how they're wrong/misleading they are. If I got to get on a high horse to push them off theirs then I'll do it. Cause you did not even bother to say the same to them when they responded, someone has to and I had too much free time to do it.

You can have reasons to hate Cait, like I said I know why the majority of people here don't like her and I will make short jokily make fun of them when they say it. They are at least telling the truth, if this person said I feel that the importance of Cait story might overshadow the MC I would be more likely to believe them. I might not agree and might have asked them to go into detail about how their nonexistent content overshadows the MCs but then they can respond to me that Savin said he'll do this and that and in the end she will kill Kas or something but at least that is a concern I can see them having, even though it has not happened yet nor am I sure will actually happen. None is this happened here. Maybe I should have just responded with. "Get off your high horse, talking about lore you know nothing about and just call Cait a no good slut" would have saved me some time.

 

[confusedcommoner]

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Steam beta key (April-May 2023):MfokDYm2BG9CujNbMrql

Spoiler: How to use the Steam beta key

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0.6.5 Patch Notes:

• Vitra the ‘Mander Bartender has received several new sex scenes focused on femPCs — her baby momma needs some special attention. Or maybe Vitra needs some special attention from a very milky PC. Either/or!
• If you bring Viv to Vitra’s bar, the witch can offer to teach the mander some magic. This unlocks a new sex scene between Vitra and the PC where she puts what she learned to use!
• Prince Nyze has a new victory sex scene! (By BerrySicky)
• The High Ground quest now has additional support for if the PC, Liaden, and Azzy are all romantic. (By Alypia)

 

[thecatcameback]

Got a question for you all, does Kas only get locked into Love or Rival at Winter City or can you win her over again in Mino City?

 

[Hachikaido]

Got a question for you all, does Kas only get locked into Love or Rival at Winter City or can you win her over again in Mino City?

I think it's been stated that there will be more opportunities to raise your romance so it's not locked in yet. Whether you will be able to in Mino city though I'm not sure off. The range of her relationship score is like 4 and minimum so it may take multiple events to get her to love you if you continuously antagonized her.