Others Corruption of Champions II [v0.7.32] [Savin/Salamander Studios]

[RenH]

I dunno I feel like you're underselling the amount of content offered to the public (eventually) for free. Whether that's good for 40k, well...I'm not a patron. I'm relatively satisfied with most updates especially since I'm not paying.

If you're satisfied with that then, good for you. It still does not negate the validity of their complaint, being that for an entity as big as Fenoxo.com they really should be putting a lot more per update than the current drip-feeding they're doing now. Especially when they've already proven that they can pull it off multiple times in the past. Hell, even when I first heard of CoC2 almost 2 years ago, the updates were always something to look forward to since the content added was actually substantial.

Sure, you can make the argument that perhaps that ballpark figure of $40k a month does not translate into direct profits for Savin and Co. due to taxes and wages that need to be paid, but you cannot deny the fact that they are definitely making enough bank to have a team of writers and coders on their payroll, which should translate to faster updates and/or more content. They are milking the patrons for what they're worth and most certainly not giving two shits about the freeloaders (public build users). The less said about people on forums like this, the better lol. They hate us.

This is also made painfully clear with the existence of much smaller devs that actually roll out updates consistently and with loads of content. A few names that come to mind are TwistedScarlett and ArcGames. While their games aren't some 'epic' massive text-based smut project (Renpy, RPGMaker), the fact that they can even roll those updates at all is impressive. Especially the former since the updates not only come in very frequently but each update containing new features that add on to the game without feeling like feature creep, I genuinely am worried for their health.

I'm not saying that big entities like Fenoxo.com shouldn't be given the benefit of the doubt, just that you have to understand that their status and wealth means that they are put at a much higher standard than that of smaller creators. If a small dev can pull off what they did not even a few years back, what's stopping Fenoxo.com from going above and beyond that?

 

[enumate]

I dunno I feel like you're underselling the amount of content offered to the public (eventually) for free. Whether that's good for 40k, well...I'm not a patron. I'm relatively satisfied with most updates especially since I'm not paying.

For context, let's look at other games with a similar budget and the number of years they have been in development.

I can't think of any off the top of my head, but generally even among indie games making a few grand a month the content is fairly plentiful. However, CoC2 is falling into the same ballpark that Breeding Season and it's hollow successor have. Where the amount of money coming in is so plentiful and the team making up the project is so unprofessional and mismanaged that you end up with a project that would have been taken down or rushed either by the fans or producer.

However, the issue we have here with the content is less about how much there is but the quality. You have some areas that are more developed and some with barely any development. In a normal project you'd have teams churning out content for these areas so instead of focusing on one, we have it being built up solely by a few people. In practice this builds a lot of content slowly, but the issue is CoC2 has decided to build slow in a few select areas.

More so are the devs and most writer's complete lack of vision and ability to get their head out of their own asses. This is ultimately causing CoC2 to diverge from the hentai version of Mass Effect 1 or 2 and into Mass Effect Andromeda territory. I've said it a few times before but Savin and Co. would be served if they hired actual professionals be it writing, editing, and outside DCL, artists too. I'll die on the hill that Moira's art is inconsistent and doesn't fit the overall appeal of CoC2. It's not terrible, but sticks out like a sore thumb and for those of us on smaller displays or mobile it's a nightmare.

Lastly, CoC2 is great during the honeymoon stage, but once you realize there's a lot of makeup covering some budget plastic surgery and acne scars the attraction wears off and you begin to notice crappy personality and hollow promises. CoC2 is the girl who looks fine on IG, but when you meet her in person you realize she's a thot who used to be a straight A student before she got lazy.

 

[qorl55]

If you're satisfied with that then, good for you. It still does not negate the validity of their complaint, being that for an entity as big as Fenoxo.com they really should be putting a lot more per update than the current drip-feeding they're doing now.

etc...

I'm not saying you're wrong, it's just I'd probably have a stronger opinion about all this if I was their subscriber.

For context, let's look at other games with a similar budget and the number of years they have been in development.

I can't think of any off the top of my head, but generally even among indie games making a few grand a month the content is fairly plentiful. However, CoC2 is falling into the same ballpark that Breeding Season and it's hollow successor have. Where the amount of money coming in is so plentiful and the team making up the project is so unprofessional and mismanaged that you end up with a project that would have been taken down or rushed either by the fans or producer.

However, the issue we have here with the content is less about how much there is but the quality. You have some areas that are more developed and some with barely any development. In a normal project you'd have teams churning out content for these areas so instead of focusing on one, we have it being built up solely by a few people. In practice this builds a lot of content slowly, but the issue is CoC2 has decided to build slow in a few select areas.

More so are the devs and most writer's complete lack of vision and ability to get their head out of their own asses. This is ultimately causing CoC2 to diverge from the hentai version of Mass Effect 1 or 2 and into Mass Effect Andromeda territory. I've said it a few times before but Savin and Co. would be served if they hired actual professionals be it writing, editing, and outside DCL, artists too. I'll die on the hill that Moira's art is inconsistent and doesn't fit the overall appeal of CoC2. It's not terrible, but sticks out like a sore thumb and for those of us on smaller displays or mobile it's a nightmare.

I gotta say it's not very useful context when you start with "let's look at something else for comparison" and then can't give me an example I've no idea how project management works so I have no opinion on that aspect of CoC2, but I do expect the game to take a long time to finish if at all.
You do seem to be correct in that areas have very different levels of development which is a shame. As for writing I think it's individually good, like individual scenes/scene chains, or characters, or areas, but taken together it feels kinda disjointed and non-reactive with each other, like we'll probably never hear of Centaur Village again.
I don't really see a problem with Moira's art, is it inconsistent? Some of it is way better than others, so yeah probably, but I think it's fine in general. With so many artists in all fenoxo games, honestly inconsistency is what I've come to expect. In what way to you think it doesn't fit CoC2?

The ME comparison is pretty funny though, because firstly CoC2 was never ever gonna be that, and secondly the primary problem with Andromeda was graphical/technical glitches and it doesnt sound like that's what you have an issue with when it comes to CoC2.

 

[CratorH8er]

Bad news guys...
View attachment 1481664

Sucks, but Will had plenty of time to work on Einen; he just prioritized his TiTS projects over his CoC2 project. There's nothing wrong with that of course, and with any luck he'll either be able to re-purpose her as an NPC or maybe just release the unfinished doc for curiosity's sake.

 

[enumate]

I'm not saying you're wrong, it's just I'd probably have a stronger opinion about all this if I was their subscriber.



I gotta say it's not very useful context when you start with "let's look at something else for comparison" and then can't give me an example I've no idea how project management works so I have no opinion on that aspect of CoC2, but I do expect the game to take a long time to finish if at all.
You do seem to be correct in that areas have very different levels of development which is a shame. As for writing I think it's individually good, like individual scenes/scene chains, or characters, or areas, but taken together it feels kinda disjointed and non-reactive with each other, like we'll probably never hear of Centaur Village again.
I don't really see a problem with Moira's art, is it inconsistent? Some of it is way better than others, so yeah probably, but I think it's fine in general. With so many artists in all fenoxo games, honestly inconsistency is what I've come to expect. In what way to you think it doesn't fit CoC2?

The ME comparison is pretty funny though, because firstly CoC2 was never ever gonna be that, and secondly the primary problem with Andromeda was graphical/technical glitches and it doesnt sound like that's what you have an issue with when it comes to CoC2.

You got my joke lol Point being use your imagination.

Luckily I do and know others who do in the gaming industry both for H and non-H. Savin's team would all be fired given the game's dev time and lack of content. Also while I don't pay myself I can see it from the stakeholder pov and looking at TiTS development is even worse.

I'll restate again, the game is good during the honeymoon phase and if it were similar to other RPGM or higher quality games that also encourage playing customization, in that there was one central plot completed before tons of other non-coherent subplots we wouldn't be complaining as much. However, by the 3rd of 5th+ run the writing gets real old real quick.

Look in the game files at Moira's art compared to DCL. You'll see the quality either being decent or pretty subpar including some character's colors being so dark you can't see any detail or it looks half assed. For a game pulling in 40k a month you'd expect a better artist. We're also talking about CoC2 specifically, not fenoxo games, but CoC2 specifically.

You missed the point why I pull in ME. Mass Effect 1 and 2 to an extent were highly acclaimed for their writing and story despite it being quite a big game with varying degrees of combat or lack thereof. Andromeda took that popularity and decided to screw the formula and writer(s) that made it good. As a result it was a mess of a game both visually, gameplay, feel, and writing. This is exactly what CoC2 is doing. Despite the amount of cash it's pulling in, the stakeholders are getting a glitchy game, with subpar writing, a team that could care less about their preferences / critiques, and is only as popular as it is based on prior game(s).

If CoC2 was pulling in a few hundred to a few thousand dollars a month then I'd agree we can expect inconsistency in writing, art, etc., but not when it's pulling in more money than some AAA games despite being an unfinished mess where members here have begun to write their own content for forgotten characters.

 

[Lance Lot]

> Her jutting pink nipples

pedantry aside pretty good shit in this update

 

[CratorH8er]

Look in the game files at Moira's art compared to DCL. You'll see the quality either being decent or pretty subpar including some character's colors being so dark you can't see any detail or it looks half assed.

You actually think DCL's art is better than Moira's? Even DCL doesn't like the old art he put in the game.

 

[Kallisto]

> Her jutting pink nipples
View attachment 1482090
pedantry aside pretty good shit in this update

I always thought nipple piercings and jewelry like that were cool. But then I think about what would happen if they accidentally got caught on something (like the thread of your shirt while you were taking it off) and then woops, no more nipples.

 

[Lance Lot]

I always thought nipple piercings and jewelry like that were cool. But then I think about what would happen if they accidentally got caught on something (like the thread of your shirt while you were taking it off) and then woops, no more nipples.

I actually have a similar opinion, I think some piercigs could look pretty good on me but I imagine the possible hassles outwheights any of that

 

[Decent-Win]

Sucks, but Will had plenty of time to work on Einen; he just prioritized his TiTS projects over his CoC2 project. There's nothing wrong with that of course, and with any luck he'll either be able to re-purpose her as an NPC or maybe just release the unfinished doc for curiosity's sake.

I don't think that's the case the way William talked about her in the past made it sound she was finished and waiting for review from Savin, i think what happened is that Savin didn't like her content so William had to rewrite it but I guess he didn't finish in time.

 

[CratorH8er]

I don't think that's the case the way William talked about her in the past made it sound she was finished and waiting for review from Savin, i think what happened is that Savin didn't like her content so William had to rewrite it but I guess he didn't finish in time.

Lmao, calm your hate boner down for a second there and actually look at William's posts. At no point has he ever said he was even close to finished with her.

 

[RenH]

I'm not saying you're wrong, it's just I'd probably have a stronger opinion about all this if I was their subscriber.

It would be a lot easier to simply admit that you like the game and can't exactly stomach the criticism being thrown at it.

You claim that you'd 'probably' have a stronger opinion if you subscribed but you clearly demonstrate the opposite. In your reply to Mandoto, you claim that he's underselling the content being made public but then backpedal under the guise of ignorance and contentment to seem inoffensive. Then when I made my own post expanding upon Mandoto's initial statement, you dismiss all of that with a frankly passive aggressive statement and hide away in your F2P fort, addressing none of the points in it. There's also the long-winded responses to my prior jokes on corruption in the game which show that you do indeed have strong opinions about the game, just not necessarily negative ones.

If it just ended there, I wouldn't have bothered replying.

But then I read your response to enumate's post and I have to say, you're a slippery fella. You address their admittedly weak opening statement with sarcastic snark but then shy away again behind ignorance, this time on project management despite the fact they've given you an easy-to-digest reason for that, ending it with non-committal claim that you have no opinion on it. Then you bring up what is honestly one of the safest of criticisms of the game and use the Centaur Village to essentially just say, "I guess you have a point."

Do yourself a favor and stop throwing stones in glass houses. If you can't take it, don't dish it. Also, it's okay to proclaim your love for the game. No one's going to judge you for it.

 

[Archaon11111]

Might get some flak for this but anyone else think Einen would be better off as an NPC rather than a companion? I do not like the companion system at all especially how the whole thing depends on the writer actually supporting the character with content later in the game which Atugia, Azzy, and Berwyn (previously) have shown without that support its completely bare bones.

Lmao, calm your hate boner down for a second there and actually look at William's posts. At no point has he ever said he was even close to finished with her.

The only thing I heard is that he completed all her regular and companion interactions but not the sex scenes with the player.

 

[Mandoto]

Might get some flak for this but anyone else think Einen would be better off as an NPC rather than a companion? I do not like the companion system at all especially how the whole thing depends on the writer actually supporting the character with content later in the game which Atugia, Azzy, and Berwyn (previously) have shown without that support its completely bare bones.

Now that you mention it, she probably would be better off as an NPC. As nice as it would be to have her around all the time, and all that would entail (camp scenes, etc.) I think if the general idea around her is kept, she would function just as well as a really detailed and content dense NPC.

 

[A.HK]

Somebody already explained why there even is some deadline for a companions?
Einen genuinely sounded like she can be the best one yet.

 

[Decent-Win]

Lmao, calm your hate boner down for a second there and actually look at William's posts. At no point has he ever said he was even close to finished with her.

I don't hate Savin but some of the shit he does makes it hard no to.
he started writing her almost three years ago.

The secret project he's talking about is Einin and she was finished this is from August of last year.


And Savin didn't like what he read and William had to rewrite it these are also from last year.

And considering that this is from March this year he more then likely did finish her only to be reject again, I would not be surprised if Savin did this whole deadline BS just so she doesn't get in the game as a companion.

 

[A.HK]

I was pretty skeptical until i saw this. Sounds like Savin alright.

 

[WazaQQXOXO]

It's also just incredibly dumb to include an actual rape scene in a patreon game, only takes one pissed off schizo to write up a full on report to get the whole account in trouble. No idea how savin didn't catch that scene, they're usually pretty careful to make sure loss scenes are written like weird forced consensual sex scenes instead of actual noncon stuff.

And agreed, combat in almost every smut game is absolutely ass. There's a few who do it okay, like last sovereign (price for freedom is also putting an insane amount of effort into theirs), but generally it just feels like annoying, poorly thought through padding.

I'll go with the easy answer and assume that Savin thought it was fine. But the threat is real, I ain't gonna lie. SweGabe's Patreon is up whereas Ravager account faced significant penalties. All it takes is a bunch of cunts that have a grudge against you.

TLS fight mechanics can't really go wrong as SL decided to make them matter: some fights are cheese incarnates, but it does the job. Didn't get on the hook with Price of Freedom, I loved the mechanics they want to implement but my playthrough was so buggy I scrapped the game altogether.

A great plot can save messy game mechanics, but with COC2, can't forgive it as they don't fit with the theme of the game. I can get behind Darkest Dungeons grinding, the RNG aspect / resource management caught my interest, but the mindless click & repeat of COC2 is a no-no.

 

[actualrealname]

I'll go with the easy answer and assume that Savin thought it was fine. But the threat is real, I ain't gonna lie. SweGabe's Patreon is up whereas Ravager account faced significant penalties. All it takes is a bunch of cunts that have a grudge against you.

Yeah exactly how I feel, it's just a dumb risky thing to add for no real benefit. Game would honestly be better without it even. Though to be fair ravager is still around, they're not exactly struggling seeing as they just brought new people on lol

TLS fight mechanics can't really go wrong as SL decided to make them matter: some fights are cheese incarnates, but it does the job. Didn't get on the hook with Price of Freedom, I loved the mechanics they want to implement but my playthrough was so buggy I scrapped the game altogether.

Ya TLS not having annoying random encounters and respawning stuff helps an insane amount, though I think boss design is comparable. Coc2 bosses are so boring in comparison, as are companions. TLS differences between companions is super intuitive and it's usually pretty obvious who you might want to bring to a fight (lust on the things that literally do not feel lust at all is a bad call, for example).

And yeah price for freedom was/is jank as fuck, they even included a straight up skip combat button, I'm just giving credit for them being basically the only dev I'm aware of making an actual CRPG style system in a porn game. It being jank as hell early on is acceptable when it's so obviously a work in progress they're putting a bunch of effort into (and when the art is so good).

Honestly a lot of these games would benefit a lot from fucking off random encounters. They just add nothing, assuming there's a competent gallery.

 

[Raf-Raf]

What's TLS? A game?