Others Corruption of Champions II [v0.7.33] [Savin/Salamander Studios]

[MoneyMan181]

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Spoiler: NSFW

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The art is good as fuck until you realize Brienne is supposed to be completely out of the frame since she's 3 and a half feet taller than Rina.

You're overthinking it, simply. It's two fold; first, getting a rib on the people who get real mad about this sort of thing, and given the venn diagram overlaps pretty closely with the people who demand/suggest being able to kill NPCs they don't like like psychopaths it's a pretty easy W for a giggle and a couple of hours work. Second, and the real thing, it's easier to write. Faceless cardboard cutout PC that could be any number of things is exhausting to do, while in contrast two characters who are, well, characters, is incredibly refreshing and basically writes itself.

Or in the case of tobs it's because he sucks

So basically they write dumb shit instead of doing something people actually want. Huh, the more you know.

 

[Skandranon]

So basically they write dumb shit instead of doing something people actually want. Huh, the more you know.

A lot of this stuff is commissioned, so somebody wants it.

Money talks, etc.

 

[MoneyMan181]

A lot of this stuff is commissioned, so somebody wants it.

Money talks, etc.

They accept commissions to put stuff in the game? What happened to artistic integrity? Like I get they might need the money, but just do it outside the game then. I could maybe understand doing patreon polls and going off of stuff like that, but this just seems... wrong to me. Unless the project is in dire straits, I can't ever see this as anything other than some kind of cash grab, even if they have strict rules on what is allowed to be commissioned.

I dunno, just kind of feels like when a publisher supports a game dev team and then makes them change things to get more profit. This kinda thing just doesn't sit well with me.

 

[Kroenen12]

I'm curious what goes on in the writer's head when they decide to sit down and write this stuff. What are they thinking that compels them to put this kind of content in the game? Then again, maybe they're just thinking with their dicks.

A lot of this stuff is commissioned, so somebody wants it.

oh

 

[Skandranon]

They accept commissions to put stuff in the game? What happened to artistic integrity? Like I get they might need the money, but just do it outside the game then. I could maybe understand doing patreon polls and going off of stuff like that, but this just seems... wrong to me. Unless the project is in dire straits, I can't ever see this as anything other than some kind of cash grab, even if they have strict rules on what is allowed to be commissioned.

I dunno, just kind of feels like when a publisher supports a game dev team and then makes them change things to get more profit. This kinda thing just doesn't sit well with me.

Commissions have been a thing since the first game. It's been a huge part of their model for the last decade or so. I think it's a big reason CoC/TiTs/CoC2 got as big as they are is the community aspect.

Technically, it'd not a commission to get stuff put in the game, it's just a commission for a writer to wrote something for you. Then it goes through the review process like normal.

But if you're getting a commission from someone who regularly writes for thr game already, chances are it's going to pass quality standards because they know how to do it.

If commissions didn't exist, there'd be no steady community writers...which means no William, which would be pretty damn sad.

 

[MoneyMan181]

Commissions have been a thing since the first game. It's been a huge part of their model for the last decade or so. I think it's a big reason CoC/TiTs/CoC2 got as big as they are is the community aspect.

Technically, it'd not a commission to get stuff put in the game, it's just a commission for a writer to wrote something for you. Then it goes through the review process like normal.

But if you're getting a commission from someone who regularly writes for thr game already, chances are it's going to pass quality standards because they know how to do it.

If commissions didn't exist, there'd be no steady community writers...which means no William, which would be pretty damn sad.

Well then I guess I just don't approve of their standards then. The problem with TiTS games is massive content bloat so it was a situation where the game was as wide as an ocean, deep as a puddle. It seems like this is going to have the same problem(although to a lesser degree), judging how some useless spiteful Lusamine gangbang scene is in the game and the entirety of the kitsune den being a thing. I just wish the writers could actually fucking harmonize rather than stick to their own individual niches all the time. Allow more than one writer to work on a companion/story and stick with one tone. I get that they might be hesitant to allow other people to touch their creations(rightfully so when it comes to TOBS and Brienne), but as it stands the game sort of just feels like a mash-up of different fanfics of varying quality put into one game.

TiTS had this same exact problem. The tone and style of writing changes drastically from one character to the next to the point where it feels like a slot machine of whether you'll like it or not. The best example of this in CoC 2 is how the PC acts when TOBS writes and around Cait. The fact that I can instantly pick out all the main writers style just by reading the first paragraph or so just ruins any sort of cohesion the game could have. Having commissions able to be put into the game with no real changes to the writing or anything just exacerbates this problem. Why would Cait get so upset at being called a whore by Lusamine when that's literally what she is? A giant branch of her religion is dedicated just to that. Wouldn't it make more sense for her to just think of it as a neutral term considering she grew up in a fucking religious whore house? If this is the only time we see her upset about this, is it some kind of addition to Cait's personality? Why does pressing gossip even lead to Lusamine getting gang-banged? Somehow we're not allowed to participate in the gangbang, because it's supposed to teach her she's a slut? What fucking sense does that make? That is not the case in any other instance of the game, so why here? The author couldn't even be fucking bothered to write a varying opening paragraph for these spiteful Cait scenes for christ's sake.

What I'm getting at is that the game already has enough whiplash between the different writing styles of the writers that commissions just add even more to that problem since they're probably not put through rigorous enough vetting.

Maybe this is all a subjective thing. I just wish the devs could actually work together and write in an at least somewhat defined style rather than all of them just sticking to their own way and mashing it together like some ball of play-doh that has 10 different colors in it. Commissions really don't help with that.

 

[Skandranon]

Community submissions are kinda the basis of the whole game, tbh. To avoid the problem you're talking about, you'd not only have to eliminate commissions, youd have to kill ALL content submissions, even the free ones - for instance, the whole corrupt Lupine plotline, and the upcoming Drifa character was a community submission, no commission involved, written by a non staff author.

If you wanted tonal consistency, you'd probably have to eliminate all community submitted content in general, and keep the writing to a small pool of authors.

At that point you're talking about a completely different model and a completely different game, and probably a much smaller, much less successful one.
Which would also translate to less staff, less writing, etc.

The issues you're talking about are the reasons they've made it to a third game at all, imo. Without community stuff, this game basically just doesn't exist.

 

[muschi26]

Community submissions are kinda the basis of the whole game, tbh. To avoid the problem you're talking about, you'd not only have to eliminate ALL content submissions - for instance, the whole corrupt Lupine plotline, and the upcoming Drifa character was a community submission, no commission involved, written by a non staff author.

If you wanted tonal consistency, you'd probably have to eliminate all community submitted content in general, and keep the writing to a small pool of authors.

At that point you're talking about a completely different model and a completely different game, and probably a much smaller, much less successful one.
Which would also translate to less staff, less writing, etc.

The issues you're talking about are the reasons they've made it to a third game at all, imo. Without community stuff, this game basically just doesn't exist.

You could keep community submissions, but at least focus on giving the core of the game, which is handled by the same mostly consistent team of writers, a clearer artistic direction and tone.

Or community submissions could be reworked by the core team (in collaboration with the submitter) to better fit with the cohesive whole the game should be trying to achieve.

That might be what's missing here, some sort of art director role.

 

[Ssato243]

has we said before savin is a shit manger

 

[Skandranon]

You could keep community submissions, but at least focus on giving the core of the game, which is handled by the same mostly consistent team of writers, a clearer artistic direction and tone.

Or community submissions could be reworked by the core team (in collaboration with the submitter) to better fit with the cohesive whole the game should be trying to achieve.

That might be what's missing here, some sort of art director role.

They already have that. That's Savins (and a few others I think) job.

Whether a good job is being done or not is eh. Too much of what you're talking about slows the content pipeline of a game that's already planned to be in dev for 6 years (and to hear some people tell it will be milked forever).

I think there's kind of a point you have to pick between speed, tonal consistency and quality (and probably a few other factors too) and the specific point they picked isn't going to work for everyone.

 

[Caedd]

So, with this latest version, 'tease' does health damage now?

 

[muschi26]

They already have that. That's Savins (and a few others I think) job.

Well, already if you have multiple people in the role, that's literally defeating the purpose. The point is to have one person in charge who has one vision, so that everyone else has a common thread and is always working in the same direction as the others. If you have multiple people in that role, that's when you get delays and stuff. In that case, you'd need a chief art director to direct those directors, but I don't think this production team is large enough to justify that.

 

[Skandranon]

Well, already if you have multiple people in the role, that's literally defeating the purpose. The point is to have one person in charge who has one vision, so that everyone else has a common thread and is always working in the same direction as the others. If you have multiple people in that role, that's when you get delays and stuff. In that case, you'd need a chief art director to direct those directors, but I don't think this production team is large enough to justify that.

Again, I'm guessing. I have no inner knowledge of what the review queue actually looks like.

But while I am guessing, I'm pretty sure this game is waaaaay bigger than you could conceivably have a single person be the editor for. The review queue, from what I understand is already a huge drag on progression as is - having a single person reviewing and rewriting what's probably upwards of a novels worth of words monthly seems untenable without a massive slowdown.

 

[muschi26]

Again, I'm guessing. I have no inner knowledge of what the review queue actually looks like.

But while I am guessing, I'm pretty sure this game is waaaaay bigger than you could conceivably have a single person be the editor for. The review queue, from what I understand is already a huge drag on progression as is - having a single person reviewing and rewriting what's probably upwards of a novels worth of words monthly seems untenable without a massive slowdown.

A director isn't rewriting anything. They would read the content submitted to them, annotate it with changes they'd like to see, and send it back to the author for modification. They wouldn't rework everything themselves.

 

[Wrynn13]

has we said before savin is a shit manger

I think it goes beyond that sadly. We know Savin is a cucklord, and this game is his baby. Odds are he gets off on the others (mainly Tobs) railing his baby, covering it in their flavor, bloating it with wordspew, as he impotently says "No, don't, Stop." He probably secretly wants modders to do the same thing while he feebly protests. Maintaining a coherent tone/vision would mean standing up for his baby's integrity, and he can't have that. Ugh this rant is starting to sound like kinkshaming and I don't want that, do what you will just stop ruining others fun for it I guess.

 

[Skandranon]

A director isn't rewriting anything. They would read the content submitted to them, annotate it with changes they'd like to see, and send it back to the author for modification. They wouldn't rework everything themselves.

An editor.

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For copy-editing (which, I think is actually a step down from what you're talking about) 4 to 7 weeks seems to be the norm for 95,000 words.

Last month there were single characters put out that released almost that much. There were definitely individual patches released with at least that many words, and there were 4 patches.

I just don't see it being possible and not halving (or worse) the speed of the game.

 

[MoneyMan181]

They already have that. That's Savins (and a few others I think) job.

Whether a good job is being done or not is eh. Too much of what you're talking about slows the content pipeline of a game that's already planned to be in dev for 6 years (and to hear some people tell it will be milked forever).

I think there's kind of a point you have to pick between speed, tonal consistency and quality (and probably a few other factors too) and the specific point they picked isn't going to work for everyone.

Well then, I don't think Savin or anybody else in that role is doing a great job because those Lusamine scenes are a little lacking to say the least. Like fucking Arona doesn't even do anything to Lusamine when she insults orcs(which is worse because it's basically racism). Yet Cait, the "lovable and friendly catgirl" freaks the fuck out for being called what she is. If that gets in, their standards aren't really high enough imo.

Well if the predicted dev time is 6 years, they just need to tone back on shit that isn't necessary. We don't need 50 quadrillion named NPCs, focus on the stuff that matters. For example: Why is there a second futa marefolk with an elf harem? It's unnecessary and doesn't add anything particularly new to the game. It's just an existing NPC with a different coat of paint, yet dev time went into it. We don't need multiple dommy futa centaurs that hit the exact same notes. We don't need the entirety of the kitsune den. We don't need that random spider lady in the foothills. We didn't have to build an entire fucking temple for Cait. Things don't seem like they're prioritized well at all, and I'd take a guess that's part of the reason the projected dev time is so long.

Even disregarding that, I wouldn't care if dev time was longer because of it. This isn't a game I'm super invested in(despite what my numerous rants might otherwise indicate) so I can wait if it means a better and more cohesive product.

Maybe I'm wrong and they're genuinely doing the best possible job they can with what they have. I heavily doubt it, but I hope they are. Only reason I'm writing all this shit is because I think the game has a lot of potential that's being squandered. I don't hate the devs. Hell, I practically know nothing about them. I just wish they could buckle down and seriously work on shit that matters instead of some stupid nonsense like Mayternity.

 

[Skandranon]

Like fucking Arona doesn't even do anything to Lusamine when she insults orcs(which is worse because it's basically racism).

Well...she slams and pins her against a wall and cockslaps her repeatedly iirc.

Not gonna disagree with you about the quality of the scene though but...Bubbles wrote them. Bubbles...kinda...sucks. I think there's like one thing he's ever written I've liked.

For example: Why is there a second futa marefolk with an elf harem? It's unnecessary and doesn't add anything particularly new to the game. It's just an existing NPC with a different coat of paint, yet dev time went into it. We don't need multiple dommy futa centaurs that hit the exact same notes. We don't need the entirety of the kitsune den. We don't need that random spider lady in the foothills. We didn't have to build an entire fucking temple for Cait.

Eh, idk. I like some of those things, and I'd hate not to have them. I think the large amount of variety is a significant part of what makes the wheels on this bus go. What you see as unnecessary probably isn't what I'd see as unnecessary, and vice versa.

Maybe I'm wrong and they're genuinely doing the best possible job they can with what they have. I heavily doubt it, but I hope they are. Only reason I'm writing all this shit is because I think the game has a lot of potential that's being squandered. I don't hate the devs. Hell, I practically know nothing about them. I just wish they could buckle down and seriously work on shit that matters instead of some stupid nonsense like Mayternity.

See, that's just it, people love Mayternity. Hell, Savin hates preg stuff, so Mayternity is something that happens specifically for the players. People in this very thread are always asking for pregshit for whoever their favorite characters are. And Mayternity was actually fairly well received here too, from what I noticed.



Idk, heres the way I think of it: what's your point of comparison?

This game puts out a good amount of content fairly regularly that doesn't read like it was written by someone who either speaks English as a 3rd language OR hasn't picked up a pencil since English 101.

Those qualities in and of themselves put it above like 99.9% of the games on this site. Games that stall for months at a time, announce a big rewrite and spend a year reducing the content of their game, pulling a Summertime Saga and putting out a patch every 4-5 months while promising some "big update" that slides ever further away, games that have a single dev who writes, codes and draws and is only good at one of those things...

Or even comparing it to the previous games.

CoC? With all of its dropped characters and ideas, little to no story and slapped together ending?

TiTs, in development for 8 years, took an entire year off and is getting most of its planned content cut, and also has a bevy of abandoned characters and areas?

FoE, which just died, full stop?

Idk, in the category of porn games, I can't offhand think of almost any projects near this scale that have gone anywhere near as well.

So I think they're doing a pretty decent job, all things considered.

 

[Kroenen12]

Like fucking Arona doesn't even do anything to Lusamine when she insults orcs(which is worse because it's basically racism).

poor arona, first brienne and now lusamine...

Spoiler: Racist cow

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[MoneyMan181]

See, that's just it, people love Mayternity. Hell, Savin hates preg stuff, so Mayternity is something that happens specifically for the players. People in this very thread are always asking for pregshit for whoever their favorite characters are. And Mayternity was actually fairly well received here too, from what I noticed.

If people clamor for pregshit that badly, yeah sure go ahead I guess. It was just an example of things that don't really contribute at all to forwarding the game or introduce anything special.

Idk, heres the way I think of it: what's your point of comparison?

This game puts out a good amount of content fairly regularly that doesn't read like it was written by someone who either speaks English as a 3rd language OR hasn't picked up a pencil since English 101.

Those qualities in and of themselves put it above like 99.9% of the games on this site. Games that stall for months at a time, announce a big rewrite and spend a year reducing the content of their game, pulling a Summertime Saga and putting out a patch every 4-5 months while promising some "big update" that slides ever further away, games that have a single dev who writes, codes and draws and is only good at one of those things...

Or even comparing it to the previous games.

CoC? With all of its dropped characters and ideas, little to no story and slapped together ending?

TiTs, in development for 8 years, took an entire year off and is getting most of its planned content cut, and also has a bevy of abandoned characters and areas?

FoE, which just died, full stop?

Idk, in the category of porn games, I can't offhand think of almost any projects near this scale that have gone anywhere near as well.

So I think they're doing a pretty decent job, all things considered.

I'm not really comparing it to anything, just making observations based on what I see. I'm not saying they're doing a horrible job, just not the best they could be doing. I also don't think we should commend them just for not being fucking horrible like 90% of western porn games. Putting out consistent and decent content when you make almost 25k a month for the project shouldn't be lauded, even if shit like summertime saga can't manage to do that.