Others Corruption of Champions II [v0.7.36] [Savin/Salamander Studios]

[Pandect]

Can you people just stop engaging with the obvious fenfourmstroll? It's pretty blatant he's just here to farm content so he can run back to them for goodgoy points for trolling the 'f95 chuds'. Just block it.

 

[dederex10]

No problem he is only be the last male party member that can't be genderbent

yet

 

[Bleh21]

Divinity has been a franchise since 1996...

950k doesn't mean they didn't secure any funding elsewhere even if self published.

I didn't bring them at any point, I just said it wasn't a fair comparison when somebody else brought them up. For the love of god, just read and actually have basic facts correct. Of course they would. They had been a team for nearly two decades when they started DOS. They were more experienced, their funding would have went farther, were likely better equipped, worked in person, and were intimately familiar with the franchise they created.

Oh if we're doing that then Coc 2 is a like a 90% copy paste of Coc 1 and Tits lol. when did coc1 come out again?

Literally everything you are mentioning for Larian, these devs have (except worked in person i guess). Atleast Divinity 1 was actually a completely new game. These people can't even replicate the work they did years ago.
You just have no idea about game development. I'm only comparing the aspects that are actually comparable. They have faaaaar better funding compared to the actual complexity of the game (an actual AAA quality game vs text based indie game). They have faaar more experience, Divinity 1 was the first of its type, everything before was top down 2d action or an rts, COC devs have been making the same game for a decade. And they should be intimately familiar with the franchise as they literally had a direct prequel.

 

[MarvintheBee]

Can you people just stop engaging with the obvious fenfourmstroll? It's pretty blatant he's just here to farm content so he can run back to them for goodgoy points for trolling the 'f95 chuds'. Just block it.

Okay come on guys. You have to give this guy some credit. Devilaffect's intention clearly are not to spite you.
Hell if I didn't knew it better I would maybe also try to bring our community and their's closer.
But your grudge against Savin and co is to great, like seriously, not anything that man does is to spite you.
But whatever the community is split apart and it will stay that way.

And don't accuse him of doing that for goodboy points. No one on the forums even mentions f95 and the discord mentions us once every 2 weeks, in a passing.
And the discord, where almost most writers have fled too, hate the fenforums almost as much as us. They live in a bubble, we live in a bubble. Sad situation but not one, one man can change.

 

[GokutheG]

They just need to have an actual argument if they want to see something changed. It took Misty months to get Steph Irson changed, but she stuck to her guns and meaningfully argued it to hell and back. I guess I just never understood screaming into the void about what you want in the game like there aren't thousands of people who probably want different things.



I was leaning more towards how often the games are updated more so than which ones are actively being developed. I'm a bit curious if there a way to track the average time between updates of each game. My main point was that it's no Mythic Manor going from near monthly updates to maybe one or two a year.

So it only took one person for them to retcon an interesting aspect of the game. Well that's just great.

 

[ChronicPasswordForgettor]

Fuck me, 7 years later and it's still not anywhere near 1.0? Autismbux too good.

 

[YouShallNotLol]

not anything that man does is to spite you.

It sure feels like it tho. And it hasn't started yesterday either, it goes all the way back to Helspawn.

 

[devilaffect]

Oh if we're doing that then Coc 2 is a like a 90% copy paste of Coc 1 and Tits lol. when did coc1 come out again?

I'm not sure what you're trying to prove here. You can't really change a whole lot mechanically without ditching the text based medium. I would personally prefer the game not take the Roundscape approach. Unless you mean the actual content, which is just outright untrue.

These people can't even replicate the work they did years ago.

How so? I wouldn't say the quality objectively dropped. If anything it improved from unnamed text game, CoC1 and early TiTS. How many one paragraph sex scenes are in CoC2 compared to CoC1? And no, people's stylistic choices not being to your liking or the direction of the game changing is not a drop in writing quality.

You just have no idea about game development. I'm only comparing the aspects that are actually comparable.

Not even the writing is a directly comparable aspect. You're comparing the writing in an entirely text based game where every piece of information has to be conveyed through the writing alone to a game where you also have auditory and visual queues that can be woven together to improve the experience. It might seem simpler to just have everything be in writing, but it comes with an entirely different set of problems in addition to what you would normally expect. Also, Larian is a beyond exceptional studio and probably shouldn't be used as a minimum bar for anything. And if you're going to compare games, another text game or more similar genre like VNs would be a better comparison.

They have faaaaar better funding compared to the actual complexity of the game (an actual AAA quality game vs text based indie game).They have faaar more experience, Divinity 1 was the first of its type, everything before was top down 2d action or an rts, COC devs have been making the same game for a decade. And they should be intimately familiar with the franchise as they literally had a direct prequel.

Far better funding is debatable. A lot more goes into how far money that is thrown into game than just the raw amount. Like I mentioned previously in federal tax credits alone, Larians money should go twice as far. Combine that with lower cost of living in Poland compared to where most the devs live and your manpower costs are exponentially lower. That's not even getting into costs that scale well for size (not unlike how wholesale works), but are far more taxing on smaller studios.

This experience part is weird. They were just a bunch of people who found a porn game and decided to contribute to it. On the CoC2 team Savin was the only person to work on the staff and just as a writer instead of a project lead. Nobody else had experience outside of writing because they wanted to write. With that established, what actually objective issues do you see with the writing? I am genuinely curious. Unless you think that writing for a longer time means you'll just write things faster, which good luck if you think that's how any skill works.

For the second part, I don't think they were trying to massively capitalize on any new technology like game studios in the late nineties and early aughts. Not everything has to be a massive departure from the previous entries. I certainly would have liked Dragon Age to be a lot more like Origins and a lot less like Veilguard. Innovation is nice when it's needed. Not so much when it's forced.

Just so we're clear, by no means am I saying that CoC2 is perfectly run and that every dev is crunching for 60 hours every for weeks. I wouldn't be surprised if you told me that it was closer 30 hours a week. I would much rather see the devs happy and continue to be at least relatively productive, especially in this space, than burning themselves into the ground and ending up like most current "AAA" studios or more aptly like Fen or Will. People just really seem to underestimate how difficult and time consuming writing multiple novels worth of content every single year can be.

 

[devilaffect]

So it only took one person for them to retcon an interesting aspect of the game. Well that's just great.

It was a lot more than one person. There were multiple community writers as well as quite a few forum goers. Misty just lead the charge so to speak.

 

[Biostar]

Devilaffect's intention clearly are not to spite you.

I find the declaration we should be nicer to the people who purposefully create projects to spite their audience pretty spiteful.

 

[devilaffect]

I find the declaration we should be nicer to the people who purposefully create projects to spite their audience pretty spiteful.

That's a gross overgeneralization with no context. Both sides are guilty of being shitty.

 

[YouShallNotLol]

That's a gross overgeneralization with no context. Both sides are guilty of being shitty.

Shove the buillshit "both sides are guilty" excuse back up your Kinu Quest.
I sure as hell wasn't writing dozens of pages of spite novels to get back at TOBS/Savin/whatever, at any point in the timeline.

Edit: Or if you prefer being extra petty and pedantic, also remember that they wrote the whole Missing Meows quest and all associated characters, just to spite a single dude.
And don't forget about Cassidy from FOE, which was somehow even worse than the rest of their spite projects combined.

 

[devilaffect]

Shove the buillshit "both sides are guilty" excuse back up your Kinu Quest.
I sure as hell wasn't writing dozens of pages of spite novels to get back at TOBS/Savin/whatever, at any point in the timeline.

Sure, but bugging people non-stop about content that you want isn't going to get you in their good graces. Savin didn't just wake up one day and decide that he was going to make Helspawn unfuckable for the lolz. He was tired of people bothering him about it. You might have a better argument for Kinu, but Tobs has been getting hate since he was working on FoE so we're right back to being shitty to each other. Hell, Riya is probably the only piece of content to be designed in a vacuum just to piss people off. Is it a totally proportionate response? Probably not, but the hate does add up and can absolutely wear a person down over time, regardless of how inane any individual comment may be.

Edit: Or if you prefer being extra petty and pedantic, also remember that they wrote the whole Missing Meows quest and all associated characters, just to spite a single dude.
And don't forget about Cassidy from FOE, which was somehow even worse than the rest of their spite projects combined.

I will defend Missing Meows to the end of the earth. HiredGuns's stand in wasn't far from how he acted and he absolutely needed to be knocked down a few pegs. I would hardly say Cassidy is wildly worse. There's a single conversation that calls out the people who wanted the incest content and wouldn't take no for an answer. Once again, none of these exist in vacuums where one side did absolutely nothing wrong. I don't think having the bare minimum expectation that people don't constantly bug writers about content is a massive bar to set.

 

[YouShallNotLol]

He was tired of people bothering him about it.

Bullshit again. Savin was the one who promised to write Helspawn character and sex scenes for her. It wasn't a commission from anyone. People were rightfully calling him out for abandoning his own job halfway through.

I will defend Missing Meows to the end of the earth. HiredGuns's stand in wasn't far from how he acted and he absolutely needed to be knocked down a few pegs.

Oh, I see. So you're actively defending those spite projects now. A real "mask off" moment. Flock of a feather (the only thing that unites Sav&CO), I guess.

I would hardly say Cassidy is wildly worse. There's a single conversation that calls out the people who wanted the incest content and wouldn't take no for an answer.

Fuck right off with this one. That "single conversation" directly canonized protagonist of original CoC as an evil pedo groomer. That "call out" fires strays at the entire playerbase of the original CoC.
What a shitshow.

 

[YouShallNotLol]

I don't think having the bare minimum expectation that people don't constantly bug writers about content is a massive bar to set.

Pro tip any good writer should follow to a T:
Ignore random people who demand stuff. Forcus on writing compelling story and characters.

But looks like it's an inverse for Sav&CO:
Ignore making good story/porn/game. Focus on fighting and spiting everyone you see, even fellow writers.

 

[devilaffect]

Bullshit again. Savin was the one who promised to write Helspawn character and sex scenes for her. It wasn't a commission from anyone. People were rightfully calling him out for abandoning his own job halfway through.




Oh, I see. So you're actively defending those spite projects now. A real "mask off" moment. Flock of a feather, I guess.

Nothing I said was bullshit. And when he didn't write it, people continued to pester him about it. It not being a commission is even more vindication that he was in at least some way in the right. It's his choice to write what he wants to write especially when he was a community writer. He has every right to decide to not write something he previously planned. Do you understand how your argument comes off as entitled when the crux of it is based off of being entitled to somebody else's time and effort? That's one of the highest degrees of disrespect you can receive. I sincerely doubt that if you decided to not do something you had previously planned that you would be fine with people constantly bothering you about.

A specific spite project, yes. With the context I have from my personal experiences with HiredGun I would say it was deserved. His ass walked around like he owned the whole place and hopefully he has had a moment of introspection since then. For the other projects, I would say I lean more towards their actions being understandable. Once again, these projects aren't written in a vacuum and there was always lead up to them being made. I don't think it's crazy to ask you to consider the fact that there is some level of nuance to this and that group think has played some degree in exacerbating a situation that probably could have been prevented by both sides being a bit more cognizant of what they're doing. People are a lot more likely to change for the better if you at least attempt to understand where they were coming from prior to breaking out the pitchforks and torches. At the end of the day you can't expect the other person to take the first step when you aren't willing to do the same.

Pro tip any good writer should follow to a T:
Ignore random people who demand stuff. Forcus on writing compelling story and characters.

It's still going to get to you unless you completely ignore any and all feedback that you get. As much as you like to think you can just ignore hate comments or annoying demands, any sort of creator working in a space with a public comment section would tell you otherwise.

 

[Kalkrion]

The devs obviously don't give a shit about what happens here and I would legitimately like to actually change that.

I'll be plain, if that's your goal this has been a poor first step. To achieve what you're looking for you would have to open a open a dialogue or debate, what you have done for the better part of a day and a half is argue.

Don't misunderstand, arguing is normal and natural but to have a dialogue and/or debate you need to be willing to concede ground, to stop arguing one point and begin considering another. I can count on one hand the amount of times you've done this. I mean you kept arguing about therapy and its place in empowering oneself, when that is barely relevant. Instead of conceding some ground somewhere you have been fighting on every front and one of them you had begun losing ground so you stated he was a bad faith actor instead of conceding a single point, then proceeding to argue several more posts about him acting in bad faith. How did one of the closer times you came to a concession result in you arguing more?

This is draining to read since the start of this whole debacle was me mentioning William in regards to something Dreamer44 said. You had one prior post to this absolute rampage and I don't even know what to say anymore.

 

[Biostar]

That's a gross overgeneralization with no context.

I find Tobs grouping everyone together to spite them a gross overgeneralization so I guess it fits. Imagine pretending it's comparable to request content that was already promised to creating not one but two projects simply to spite people that left the game long ago. Imagine creating a daughter character to just pull the rug from out under your audience so he can show you how pointless you are to her now. Imagine thinking you're going to convince anyone to agree with you when you keeping glossing over what they do with no impunity. Sod off.

 

[Ranma]

Interesting you mention that. It's actually a legitimate tactic of some bot farms. They create an account and let it sit for years without any activity. But then at the crucial moment someone takes the pilot seat of that account, and starts very actively executing whatever directive they were given.
We call such accounts "canned meat" over here.

Ha! Funnily enough, back in the olden days, we used to call that something else entirely.

 

[devilaffect]

I find Tobs grouping everyone together to spite them a gross overgeneralization so I guess it fits. Imagine pretending it's comparable to request content that was already promised to creating not one but two projects simply to spite people that left the game long ago. Imagine creating a daughter character to just pull the rug from out under your audience so he can show you how pointless you are to her now. Imagine thinking you're going to convince anyone to agree with you when you keeping glossing over what they do with no impunity. Sod off.

And I would agree with that, but it also isn't coming out of nowhere like people are saying. I have already said it wasn't a proportional response, but people are discounting the effect that having a group of people shit talking you will have on your wherewithal. If I can't convince people to some degree that the devs aren't entirely evil, then I won't get anywhere.