Others Corruption of Champions II [v0.7.37] [Savin/Salamander Studios]

[smithsmithsmith]

So the Pc is strong enough to have every single god be interested in their soul and is the only one who even pose a threat to Kas and tries to stop her but at the same time they're not strong enough to surpass the almighty dev self inserts. Mallach forbid there was an illusion of choice and the actual universe is somewhat believable.
God i can't wait for litteraly anyone else to write for this piece of shit game, I'm so over these guys egos.

So my take on this was more that the player character has potential for greatness but isn't there yet, like how an acorn can become a 45 meter tall tree that lives for a thousand years or maybe just get eaten by a squirrel. I don't think it's insane to say other characters are currently more powerful than the player character.

 

[Heremus]

It's all neat, there are so many plotholes begging for a good filling in, but I have no doubt in my mind that none of this is intended or the plan for future content.
The day one of TOBS's kitsune characters is not "perfect", is the day he has a stroke.

And that's honestly the sad part about these games, least to me. Wanting to see the potential realized. But maybe I'm just a sucker for the existential kind of stuff, ever since I played My Very Own Lith.

 

[Wrynn13]

Personally I would love a quest path that involved taking the "living gods" down, or at least two of them... but that would be a power fantasy and we all know how the devs think of that.

 

[terracewalkin]

Fingers crossed for an Orlaith update some day :'(

 

[A Burning Conscience]

And that's honestly the sad part about these games, least to me. Wanting to see the potential realized. But maybe I'm just a sucker for the existential kind of stuff, ever since I played My Very Own Lith.

Wow, I haven't thought about that game in years. Did they ever finish it?
But yes, interesting cosmology of fantasy worlds is always far more interesting to me then generic dragon slaying. Now some good dragon laying with a dragon that isn't just another big breasted woman with animal ears...

 

[smithsmithsmith]

Now some good dragon laying with a dragon that isn't just another big breasted woman with animal ears...

Preach brother, the quest for hot dragon ladies is eternal.

 

[Tau_Iota]

Bit late on this one but in the words of a great writer:
"Don't trust the cannibal just because he's using a knife and fork."
Granny Weatherwax, written by Terry Pratchett

I don't think it's actually an angle the writers intended, but like all the half-baked ideas they've thrown out, it just raises too many questions, and those questions are far more interesting than helping catgirls make a sex temple.

For instance, here's a theory that springs to mind, what if Kiyoko is just a fake made from the wraith that ate her, and the entire Keros thing was a set-up from the beginning? Think about it, she was killed by a wraith, she just remembers waking up in the astral space which is her "gods" dream. The orb just happened to be in a ruin right outside a community of marauding wolf men and no-one found it before the champ who happens to have a very special soul?
-So not Keros killed Kiyoko and her people, ascended to godhood, years later hatches a plan to make Kinu (because prophecy, and super special wifu senses, and bad writing) and so plants the amulet along with a regurgitated version of Kiyoko for the champ to find. It would be why he acts so pissy if you throw her back in his face, and explains why she completes her transformation in full bitch once she's out of the orb and he has to finish the job of stitching her together from various things he's eaten.

All that, is a theory I pulled from my arse, because TOBS left the door wide open by not exploring any of these ideas properly, and they're far more fascinating for their implications then being a mute at a festival where everyone looks down on you.

Jesus Christ, you took my paranoia of all things that hide who they are and made it something I'd actually want to read. I only quoted this, but your point on all god damn kitsunes being soul collectors is just great. The only flaw I see is that the champ can become a Kitsune as well. Are you implying that the champ dies when they are turned into a kitsune and replaced a la Invasion of the Body Snatchers? Or is the champ left intact and that's why the other kitsune reject you despite being a kitsune?

And about their intentions, two things happen any time you release fictional work. The first thing that happens is someone reads it, the second thing is the death of the author. The lack of intention doesn't matter if it's so easily pulled from the text and all.

It's also just far more interesting than a "mediocre hero gets hardcarried by people to defeat a minor antagonist while the main antagonists just sit back and watch" the game.

 

[Tau_Iota]

I see that you're a truly cultured person too.

What can I say? I'm a sucker for all things beyond my mortal comprehension

 

[A Burning Conscience]

What can I say? I'm a sucker for all things beyond my mortal comprehension

At the end of the day, it's not about how they look, it's about the feeling of sticking your organs in places of unfathomable potential.

For extending the Kitsune theory further. I'd say that, as Keros says in that scene, the champ doesn't become a kitsune, it's just an imitation. He rips Champ's soul out to use later (if you are on the Kas romance and then tell her about it, she says she can see the "Reflection" of the soul) and he keeps the husk of the champ animated because the soul is still intact out there somewhere. So yes, champ is an imitation Kitsune, not the real deal, Keros is laughing his arse off because he's got what he wants and everyone else loses, Champ is on borrowed time till they're no longer needed at which point they will "Ascend to the heavens of the fox god," IE be eaten, and the corpse will collapse.
But glad you got some joy from that wild bit of nonsense of mine, I hope it makes the game mildly more tolerable.

 

[hauntedxdd]

Wow. I've been playing TITS/COC2 for a while now, without really gauging the communities reactions to some things. I've always been an on and off player. Color me pleasantly surprised when I stumble upon this thread and realize that a lot of people have the same gripes I do: writers having MASSIVE FUCKING EGOS. Seriously, I can't stand this shit.



I think the Shizuya incident in TITS made me go into a blind rage for several minutes, kinda ridiculous when you think about it considering it's just a porn game, but I was just so annoyed that something so godfuckingawful was added to the game.

 

[Daken9]

 

[Tau_Iota]

View attachment 1998999

Given Chief awoke a shell of his former franchise, the implication is that Brihaus should never release

Champ is on borrowed time till they're no longer needed at which point they will "Ascend to the heavens of the fox god," IE be eaten, and the corpse will collapse.

Ah sweet, cosmic horrors beyond my comprehension.

I don't know, given the subject matter of this game, I wish there would be some more serious situations aside from the whole Anakin Skywalker scene. Like... your game is about the end of the world after the world already ended. Older Fallouts juggled that grimness of its world while injecting humor so it isn't Nobledark. Sure the Overseer doesn't let you return after you give him the water chip, but if you have the bloody mess perk just explode his body

CoC2 presents you with all of these horrible, cosmic horrors. Demons. Breeding rooms and experimentations. Not just death, but the death of your immortal soul. And it never feels like anything but a lead-up to a punchline. Why does everything have to reflect the Marvel-style of everything being a joke? I loved Thanos because he wasn't fucking funny. He didn't pop in and have some quips, he did what he came to do. Meanwhile, everyone else is joking while the fate of the universe is at stake. Like why is the villain more concerned about the fate of the universe than our heroes?? That's how CoC2 feels, everyone thinks it's funni and horni. Like guys... we're ruled over by cosmic monsters that care not if a god damn demon corrupts us into shades of our former selves. We are nothing but ants to be quashed under the boots of an unforgiving world... Can we just talk about it?

I fail to understand how so many writers (it's not limited to CoC2) set up such an interesting god damn world and premise and then just lets it collapse in on itself.

tl;dr If your game is going to have serious situations and themes, do not treat the game like it's Serious Sam or Dick Kickem. Those games know what they are, parodies. This game wants to be taken seriously while simultaneously be treated like a parody

 

[benisfug]

Given Chief awoke a shell of his former franchise, the implication is that Brihaus should never release


Ah sweet, cosmic horrors beyond my comprehension.

I don't know, given the subject matter of this game, I wish there would be some more serious situations aside from the whole Anakin Skywalker scene. Like... your game is about the end of the world after the world already ended. Older Fallouts juggled that grimness of its world while injecting humor so it isn't Nobledark. Sure the Overseer doesn't let you return after you give him the water chip, but if you have the bloody mess perk just explode his body

CoC2 presents you with all of these horrible, cosmic horrors. Demons. Breeding rooms and experimentations. Not just death, but the death of your immortal soul. And it never feels like anything but a lead-up to a punchline. Why does everything have to reflect the Marvel-style of everything being a joke? I loved Thanos because he wasn't fucking funny. He didn't pop in and have some quips, he did what he came to do. Meanwhile, everyone else is joking while the fate of the universe is at stake. Like why is the villain more concerned about the fate of the universe than our heroes?? That's how CoC2 feels, everyone thinks it's funni and horni. Like guys... we're ruled over by cosmic monsters that care not if a god damn demon corrupts us into shades of our former selves. We are nothing but ants to be quashed under the boots of an unforgiving world... Can we just talk about it?

I fail to understand how so many writers (it's not limited to CoC2) set up such an interesting god damn world and premise and then just lets it collapse in on itself.

tl;dr If your game is going to have serious situations and themes, do not treat the game like it's Serious Sam or Dick Kickem. Those games know what they are, parodies. This game wants to be taken seriously while simultaneously be treated like a parody

Everything in CoC2 feels like a joke because there are no real stakes. Corruption, the driving force of the plot, was botched on a conceptual level. Patreon being more strict is likely part of the reason but most of the writers simply don't have any interest in corruption at all. It's not the horrible force of evil it was in the first game that forced regular people into hiding or offering up sacrifices to demons.

 

[BigSaltDeluxe]

I'm looking for more excuses to not play this game, so can someone please explain to me more about this Kiyoko situation? I'm the type of player who skims the text and read the button prompts, btw.

("Situation" as in, what you mean by "hating what the champion stands for")

 

[A Burning Conscience]

I'm looking for more excuses to not play this game, so can someone please explain to me more about this Kiyoko situation? I'm the type of player who skims the text and read the button prompts, btw.

("Situation" as in, what you mean by "hating what the champion stands for")

So after you free Kiyoko from the orb, there are several scenes where either you invite her to events or she invites you to events. In all the scenes where you invite her she either says no, or she makes it clear she looks down on native culture and people (in the winter ball scene she deliberately tries to make you feel bad for taking her to something so unpleasant to her, saying that she's only there because you invited her.)
In going to kitsune events, she often abandons you to the scorn of the other kitsune characters, never speaks up in your defence, and in one case does the equivalent of sitting you at the kids table because you're "so low in station".
In short, save for the sex scenes with her which are the same as from the orb, in which she's madly in love with you, whenever you're out in public she treats you like a pet... a pet that just rolled in shit and embarrassed her in front of her friends.
Even shorter: Kiyoko is racist and is only with the champ because she can't get enough of his D

 

[ScholarOfTheFirstSin]

In all the scenes where you invite her she either says no, or she makes it clear she looks down on native culture and people (in the winter ball scene she deliberately tries to make you feel bad for taking her to something so unpleasant to her, saying that she's only there because you invited her.)

In going to kitsune events, she often abandons you to the scorn of the other kitsune characters, never speaks up in your defence, and in one case does the equivalent of sitting you at the kids table because you're "so low in station".

In short, save for the sex scenes with her which are the same as from the orb, in which she's madly in love with you, whenever you're out in public she treats you like a pet... a pet that just rolled in shit and embarrassed her in front of her friends.
Even shorter: Kiyoko is racist and is only with the champ because she can't get enough of his D

 

[ScholarOfTheFirstSin]

and is only with the champ because she can't get enough of his D

 

[BigSaltDeluxe]

Welp, sounds like someone's staying in that orb for-fucking-ever

 

[Kroenen12]

Also still itching for repeating scenes with Brienne's family. I still can't comprehend how it's taken so long to just conclude that side content already. Last I'd heard it's been written for months but they just don't want to program it in for whatever reason...

brihaus is a big project

 

[undyingrevenant]

So my take on this was more that the player character has potential for greatness but isn't there yet, like how an acorn can become a 45 meter tall tree that lives for a thousand years or maybe just get eaten by a squirrel. I don't think it's insane to say other characters are currently more powerful than the player character.

... Yeahhhhh they've already said the pcs normal just funky. His soul is "interesting" but not chosen one interesting, got radiation from a nuclear reactor interesting. The only character shown to actually have potential for a god killing anime arc is kas herself. The growth mentioned in the game is just it's soul getting more energy so kas can use it to (possibly) create a life. So if anything you're a delivery boy with a valuable package. Not courier 6 potential, but judging from the power of companions, average+. About as strong as the general of a hive, or possibly eventually a 9 tailed kitsune or whatever you sell your soul to.

They're locked into "power fantasy bad, I hate power fantasies" real hard, even though the kind of power fantasy I'd assume they're talking about is if after the first kas encounter you become the hulk or some such and don't take no for an answer, instead of through hard work and determination becoming a legendary warrior/mage/archer/healer/Casanova. Whether it's through priceless relics, skills, deals or a multitude of things, it stops becoming power fantasy prevention and becomes blatant handicapping.

With their current design they throw stuff like your character sacrificing any number of things for power and asking "was it worth it" away, they throw away being a legendary hero, able to be the vanguard and protect your friends, partners, lovers and children from darkness, and instead of any of that, they fall directly into the abyssal sister trope of "I did it through the power of friendship, I couldn't do anything without my friends".

There's a vast gulf between "immortal" and "average Joe", and generally anything with a aj protagonist has them and/or their party eventually do ludicrous stuff after starting from the bottom, not somehow fight demons throughout a continent, slap their way through a whole tree of rats, survive a rat in nom mode, sell their soul and obtain godlike powers, debate a god (and win) to obtain the long lost ability to absorb and mimic countless powers, get multiple relics to save you from the brink of death, duel demons for the weapons of gods (and obtain them), but then also have consistent stuff like leofric punching you, the den treating you like garbage, saying long term there's no possibility of ever standing against a god or, by extension, a wraith, and the devs actively limit anything your PC can do like you go from 1st grade to 6th, but looping back to the 5th grade because they have a vendetta. Anything dumb they'd prevent from a unchecked power fantasy is meaningless when they do the opposite extreme.
QUOTE="MoneyMan181, post: 8816394, member: 1633013"]

You know if I'm being honest, isn't it deliberately harmful that TOBS writes Kitsunes this way while claiming they're based on Japanese culture? It's not indicative of how they act in the slightest and it could give people a negative/disturbing view of them.

They are soul suckers for sustenance that give sex in exchange(essentially making them whore bandits)
They are incredibly racist
All of them besides two are insufferable shitheads even disregarding the racism
They're doing the exact same thing Europeans did when colonizing the Americas.
Family dynamics are completely off of the Japanese norm.
Idk, just something I thought of. Why would you base your fictional race on a real one and then purposefully make them assholes? I can't tell if the dude idolizes the culture because he won't stop fucking trying to write about it or if he hates it because he writes it the way he does.

[/QUOTE]
That is the question, innit? Take kiyoko, she seems to be based on the "yamato nadeshiko" trope, the "ideal Japanese woman", but instead of being ride-or-die loyal or faithful she's what she is now. The den supposedly was based off tropes for a "weeb paradise", but you've got kohaku who fits the bill, and all the rest are pricks. It doesn't seem like something that focuses on the good but doesn't shy away from the bad of their culture, but something that focuses on the bad but sometimes chucks in something decent for a unknown reason.