YouShallNotLol

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May 6, 2022
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Kaly wants to force the demons to serve under a greater will where they can do no harm in a symbiotic relationship.
No, you clearly argued for demons to coexist freely among normal people. I.E. keep spreading their corruption.
Now you're backing down and moving goalposts.

Disagrees with me on what, exactly? The definition of genocide? Here, let me help with a google search: " the deliberate killing of a large number of people from a particular nation or ethnic group with the aim of destroying that nation or group. " Now, you can maybe argue of the definition of 'people' meaning exclusively humans, but that's a slippery slope, especially considering all the non-human races in the setting.
Last I checked demons were neither a nation nor an ethnic group. And people aren't born demons, it's a fucking plague that forcefully corrupts people and turns them into demons. Akin to bubonic plague, and it should be treated accordingly.

Irony levels are off the charts.
The only irony here is how shitty your manipulation tactics are. :KEK:
 

daboss456

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Mar 9, 2023
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I'd like to share my ideas here and bridge the gap between the two main CoC2 communities but I often feel like there is no desire to have a discussion due to lingering bias, only to echo chamber the same sentiments that make people feel justified in their overall opinions on the game, or that people are worried about being targetted by the vitriol some members here display so they conform.
I can't really fathom why you or anyone would bother when there is no desire for discussion from either communities. Not out of lingering bias, but because the devs(the people in charge of the CoC2 community) just ignore almost all critisizm, along with all of there followers who will dogpile on anyone with a dissenting opinion on the game without a moments hesitation. I suspect most of the people in this community that constantly deride the game came from the CoC2 community having been burned or ignored by the game and it's community enough for all their good will to turn to vitriol. Unless the devs are willing to come here themselves and endure the waves of shit being thrown at them in the name of bridge building I don't think it's ever going to happen.
 

YouShallNotLol

Engaged Member
May 6, 2022
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I can't really fathom why you or anyone would bother when there is no desire for discussion from either communities. Not out of lingering bias, but because the devs(the people in charge of the CoC2 community) just ignore almost all critisizm, along with all of there followers who will dogpile on anyone with a dissenting opinion on the game without a moments hesitation. I suspect most of the people in this community that constantly deride the game came from the CoC2 community having been burned or ignored by the game and it's community enough for all their good will to turn to vitriol. Unless the devs are willing to come here themselves and endure the waves of shit being thrown at them in the name of bridge building I don't think it's ever going to happen.
Nida is using that same old playbook of holier than thou missionary that came to "build bridges". Which was used by others many times before them.
And it always goes the same: some schmuck shows up, starts antagonizing everyone, then disappears for good.
 

Br9000

Newbie
Mar 29, 2018
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No, if you agree with the dude about not turning into an incubus, the next time you get that encounter again - his "friendly" succubus GF just rapes him and turns him into a demon by force anyway.
An example of subterfuge and cunning from a demon, dropping all pretences the moment Champ ruins her plan.
So I just checked and I can't find the scene where she turns him into a demon even if you tell him to stay human. The next time I encounter them she is blowing him but there is no mention of him losing his soul that time around. Looking at the wiki it does state that fen says she betrays him by way of putting him in the factory but I also can't find mention of that in the game. Could you point me to where you find the scene where she turns him into a demon after you tell him stay human?
 
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Jbuster

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Oct 25, 2019
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IIRC the ethereals can be destroyed, but its a really hard to do thing. I may be wrong on this one tho...

And again, destruction had a very selective nature. Example, knowledge about the existence of the 'demonic realm' and a way to open a 'door' to it.
If its a 'low tech' knowledge, there should be a majority of peoples aware of it, up to the point of "Ah yes, we have a portal to the demon realm on the next street....really bad neighborhood, drug dealers, thugs and sperm pools all over the place..."
If its a 'high tech' knowledge....It was written in a book hardened against space magical bombardment? Multiple books? Multiple books that were hidden all over the land?

What Im trying to say is, yes, your points are valid, but they are based onto the wrong initial assumptions.
And yeah....I think I got it....world have some interesting elements but its better to recreate them from the scratch rather than pulling them away.
I think Carmen was able to nuke wraiths, there were other people with spells designed to do similar stuff but nothing was too efective till the gods came in and spammed their chosen people with premium magic and weapons

The way I see it, Savarra operates under the History Channel ancient aliens feverish logic with porn, is senseless and stupid and only works because the plot demands it. I'm not sure anyone cared about cohesivity while writing this game so they just add stuff as long as said stuff push the plot forward, that when they bother to push the plot forward
 

daboss456

Newbie
Mar 9, 2023
47
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Nida is using that same old playbook of holier than thou missionary that came to "build bridges". Which was used by others many times before them.
And it always goes the same: some schmuck shows up, starts antagonizing everyone, then disappears for good.
Nida isn't antagonizing anyone though. They'll respond to hostility in kind but they don't come with intention of attacking or condenming anyone. Which is why it's kind of sad to see them take this kind of shit on the devs behalf knowing it's not going to amount to anything.
 

Nidabutt

Member
Dec 21, 2021
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(Edit to shrink the post down, sorry about that.)


I'm sorry you're feeling frustrated, but at least personally, I have no bias against any communities, only the game's present state and the way the developers react to criticism. Again, I'm not trying to attack you or discourage you in any way, I'm just sharing my perspective and what I believe the majority's perspective is on this forum. I don't hate that Kaly exists, my only complaint is that the narrator makes any interactions with Kaly into an instant loss with no ability to do the reasonable thing and cut her down when her intentions become clear.

The majority on this forum, (at least as far as I've seen), approach the story as you would a legitimate story. They're absorbing it, reading deeper into it, rationalizing it- and critiquing the plot holes or strange limitations put in place. The CoC2 community seem to have a very different approach, (and again, this is based entirely on what I've seen), they seem to prefer viewing it as fetish fuel and largely disposable, a waifu sim first and all the lore is there to make it more marketable or something but isn't worth thinking too deeply on. We have folks questioning the political structure, economy, and technology of the setting, trying to make it all make sense.

I don't think either side is wrong, it's that old Star Trek versus Star Wars community debate. One wants detailed, fleshed out, and logical narratives- and the other's there for the quick minute to minute thrills and feel good plots that ask you not to think about them past a surface level. Everyone's free to enjoy whatever they enjoy as far as I'm concerned, but I definitely fall more in the camp of reading deeper into things. I would like the setting and the narrative to make sense. I would like to immerse myself in whatever world I'm reading about, and think about how I'd approach life there.

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TLDR; I don't hate Kaly, I'm just thinking about her whole deal logically rather than fetishistically or romantically. As you have pointed out, she is a bad end waiting to happen that will impact a very large area. She's perfectly comfortable ruining individual lives if it suits her goals, so trusting her with brainwashing spore towers isn't a good idea no matter how you slice it. Giving her that level of control over the people around her would only be for the entirely misguided 'moral good' of sparing demons, who have no souls anyway, they're just corpses with a pulse and access to the memories and carnal instincts of their former lives. Intelligent zombies. So letting Kaly do what she wants to do just because it's more merciful towards these twisted parodies of my former neighbors is just.. Bluh.. Missing the forest through the trees, letting everyone still alive down to cling onto the people that are already gone.

And that's fine. It's fine that she exists, but I just wish she wasn't wearing OC-armor and could be dealt with before she can do any harm to the people around me. Like it or not, rape, brainwashing, stripping someone of their identity is not cool. I wouldn't want my kids, my mother, my father, my brother, my strange uncle that always smells funny, or my pet dog to fall prey to demons, OR to Kaly's ball stank spore brainwashing. No matter how much she might promise not to use those on 'the innocent', she's shown that she's an end-justifies-the-means kind of girl and sees nothing wrong with ruining individual lives.
She is a monster that needs to be slain before she can hurt someone incapable of defending themselves. There are worse fates than death, and I'd rather be a murderer than someone that doomed the world to slavery and corruption.

I'm giving you my feedback and opinion on the character and her narrative. I think she needs to be stopped, and given the present circumstances, that kiiiiinda means putting her down, y'know? 'cause apparently, her balls brainwash people immediately without any hope of resisting and does so shamelessly, so she's as much of a problem as Kass in some ways and should be treated as such.
I can definitely understand, like I said in an ideal world there would be a resolution where you can turn on Kalysea after realizing her game. I had suggested a way to kill Kaly as part of her first expansion but Wsan wasn't keen on the idea so that was ultimately canned.
 
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icecreamman99

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Outside of the extreme responses YouShallNotLol and Felkesste, which already did a follow up post better conveying their thoughts.

I'll try to boil down what people problems are into some points
1-You said what the PC killing the demons was genocide and that somehow that wasn't the truly good or best option.​
Genocide is strong word and fact that over 90% of them are the hostile people to PC and the setting multiple people have proven this with many points shows that was ridiculous point.
And for that somehow that wasn't the truly good or best option; in setting of coc2 over 90% that we interact with should be jailed, enslaved, or killed. Most of the stuff we fight in the game jailed, enslaved, or killed. The PC is an anomaly in this because this what happens writers don't commit to the setting they made and the fact they put rape and victory sex as results for winning or losing most fights.
This is a in setting thing of coc2
2-The way Kalysea is written in game at best make them look like rushing to sex scenes regardless of the PC and at worse Kalysea does stuff in spite of the PC and their interactions.​
This makes them look like another "my special OC" like random paladin with the wasps. What matters is what is written in game and what is not. Currently the character jumps to extremes and past the extremes of any of content in this game, that content unprompted and without build up or interaction on the PC's part. This "my special OC" points people say.
3-The Background motivation of Kalysea as you explained it weren't grey when you said relate to grey actions and when you further explained what Kalysea is supposed to be convey or doing. Showed Kalysea as a hostile interest no different from corrupted and/or demons.​
Honestly that is fine for Kalysea, no problems at all. Were it could quickly become not be fine is such content if made in a way where the PC can't react and interact with Kalysea interest. If Kalysea trying to use magical subversion, suggestion and/or mind control, that is a hostile action against the PC and the PC should be able to respond hostile action of their own if they choose too. If not then Kalysea is another "my special OC".
 

Nidabutt

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Dec 21, 2021
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To broken record this again for clarity
I was disagreeing in entirety with this statement
I'd say I agree then
wait she does?
Oh my goodness. My entire world view. Shattered instantly.
They say the memory is the first thing to go...


I did?
You might have misread the entire thing.
Hmm...
I always feel like an idiot when I have to explain a post because that means it wasn't written in an understandable way to begin with

Still~
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And there's other things to. Unless you're romancing Kas (which presumably a PC isn't during the demon genocide flavored run) exactly ZERO (0) of the seven inform you that you can fix demonification. You only find out about a potential "cure" if
  1. You romance Kas
  2. You build the temple
  3. You three way with Cait until she gets Mallach's attention
Don't build that temple or romance Kas? As far as the PC knows, once you're a demon, you're a demon....
Hmm... I think. I'll be honest it's been a long time since I've actually combed through the games lore. Maybe Lumia tells you.

Anyways, trust me when I say there's a lot of things we can talk about when it comes to a demon cure. But, that's not part of the conversation so we'll avoid all of that.

To broken record this again for clarity
I was disagreeing in entirety with this statement
Then I can agree with the sentiment that, without any external factors, peace between the two would be impossible. Though, with external factors I think there's the potential to enforce certain limitations.

From a human perspective, we have laws that keep us in check but due to increased level of chaos demons possess, they need a higher form of order to keep them in line, one that goes beyond the threat of punishment for crime. You could argue that if we consider the restriction of personal freedoms in human law to be a just form of order, then direct control over demons is also just if it's the only practical solution to ensure peace. It's a fine line between order and tyranny, with the only real deciding factor being how effective the illusion of choice and freedom is.

I think that's how I'd try to portray the methodology of Kaly's thought process regarding the crisis. Personally, I think killing them is the safer bet, though I tend to keep them around so I don't miss their sex scenes lol (in a realistic scenario they're fuckin dead though.) Kaly is a character and her thoughts/opinions are entirely works of fiction, separate to my own.
 

icecreamman99

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Mar 1, 2018
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Nidabutt
Honestly do what you want, i would find it cool that i could influence Kalysea in some way.
But it's your fucking money, do what the hell you want with it and indulge in what makes you happy.

But that doesn't mean we won't point and laugh and point out the flaws. Fucking Savin; the head of this game made that cowgirl Isadora[?] out to be a more innocent lover or more restrained lover but also gave that same person a gangbang scene where they get fucked be all their troops and that had no build up to that extreme.

And then Savin made that new content for that orc skald be completely PC centric and on theme for may.
This game is all over the fucking place, do what you want.
 
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Nidabutt

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Dec 21, 2021
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Nida is using that same old playbook of holier than thou missionary that came to "build bridges". Which was used by others many times before them.
And it always goes the same: some schmuck shows up, starts antagonizing everyone, then disappears for good.
I've been here for a while actually, since quite early in Kaly's development where I looked for feedback, and some of the people here actually have opinions worth listening to.
 
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Nidabutt

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Outside of the extreme responses YouShallNotLol and Felkesste, which already did a follow up post better conveying their thoughts.

I'll try to boil down what people problems are into some points
1-You said what the PC killing the demons was genocide and that somehow that wasn't the truly good or best option.​
Genocide is strong word and fact that over 90% of them are the hostile people to PC and the setting multiple people have proven this with many points shows that was ridiculous point.
And for that somehow that wasn't the truly good or best option; in setting of coc2 over 90% that we interact with should be jailed, enslaved, or killed. Most of the stuff we fight in the game jailed, enslaved, or killed. The PC is an anomaly in this because this what happens writers don't commit to the setting they made and the fact they put rape and victory sex as results for winning or losing most fights.
This is a in setting thing of coc2
2-The way Kalysea is written in game at best make them look like rushing to sex scenes regardless of the PC and at worse Kalysea does stuff in spite of the PC and their interactions.​
This makes them look like another "my special OC" like random paladin with the wasps. What matters is what is written in game and what is not. Currently the character jumps to extremes and past the extremes of any of content in this game, that content unprompted and without build up or interaction on the PC's part. This "my special OC" points people say.
3-The Background motivation of Kalysea as you explained it weren't grey when you said relate to grey actions and when you further explained what Kalysea is supposed to be convey or doing. Showed Kalysea as a hostile interest no different from corrupted and/or demons.​
Honestly that is fine for Kalysea, no problems at all. Were it could quickly become not be fine is such content if made in a way where the PC can't react and interact with Kalysea interest. If Kalysea trying to use magical subversion, suggestion and/or mind control, that is a hostile action against the PC and the PC should be able to respond hostile action of their own if they choose too. If not then Kalysea is another "my special OC".
1 - Perhaps the terminology was a little inflamatory, that's a fair gripe.

2 - Really hoping her next expansion will tie all these loose threads together. I'm gonna make sure I get Wsan to do some story bits, even though I know he really likes to do the sex scenes primarily. :p

3 - Ideally I'd like a way to combat her hijinks. I think having her as a hostile encounter would have been a better way to go about doing it. Wsan was keen on the follower idea and we both decided it would be a more interesting route. It definitely was more interesting, but ended up being quite divisive since it leaves basically no wiggle room for freedom of choice in an RPG. It's effectively a tailored experience for peril loving subs that like centaur girls with big horsecocks, while that's great for people like me, it's obviously not going to be for everyone and I'm not sure if I can figure out a solution for this final expansion of hers.
 
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Nidabutt

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Dec 21, 2021
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Nidabutt
Honestly do what you want, i would find it cool that i could influence Kalysea in some way.
But it's your fucking money, do what the hell you want with it and indulge in what makes you happy.

But that doesn't mean we won't point and laugh and point out the flaws. Fucking Savin; the head of this game made that cowgirl Isadora[?] out to be a more innocent lover or more restrained lover but also gave that same person a gangbang scene where they get fucked be all their troops and that had no build up to that extreme.

And then Savin made that new content for that orc skald be completely PC centric and on theme for may.
This game is all over the fucking place, do what you want.
That's fair, I don't mind people not finding it to their tastes, but I do actively look for feedback since Wsan is in the opening stages of writing her final chunk of content. This is the LAST TIME for potential story developments to occur, and I wanna make sure I get it right.
 

Tsubuhaza

Active Member
Sep 28, 2020
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Don't actively follow this too much, but is there any idea when "In her Footsteps" is gonna continue?
Oh, the main plot thing? Yeah, apparently they will. Eventually. Don't hold your breath over it.

Some points made here are good and I agree with, but they're soured so heavily by the misunderstanding in other points in the posts. I'd like to share my ideas here and bridge the gap between the two main CoC2 communities but I often feel like there is no desire to have a discussion due to lingering bias, only to echo chamber the same sentiments that make people feel justified in their overall opinions on the game, or that people are worried about being targetted by the vitriol some members here display so they conform. I'll try to ramble less and keep my opinions short and concise from now on, in interest of making them more understandable, so there can be no room for misunderstanding.
On my end, I honestly don't care about your OC but I believe you're well aware of that? What I couldn't ignore was the demon bit. It's also why I don't make any comments on your character as it is.

She's not for me and likely never will so I abstain.

That said, on the bit about bridges.

I can't really fathom why you or anyone would bother when there is no desire for discussion from either communities. Not out of lingering bias, but because the devs(the people in charge of the CoC2 community) just ignore almost all critisizm, along with all of there followers who will dogpile on anyone with a dissenting opinion on the game without a moments hesitation. I suspect most of the people in this community that constantly deride the game came from the CoC2 community having been burned or ignored by the game and it's community enough for all their good will to turn to vitriol. Unless the devs are willing to come here themselves and endure the waves of shit being thrown at them in the name of bridge building I don't think it's ever going to happen.
I understand that's not what you mean with "bridging" the communities, rather that you want to coexist with both, correct?

Then understand where you're at.
 

YouShallNotLol

Engaged Member
May 6, 2022
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I've been here for a while actually, since quite early in Kaly's development where I looked for feedback, and some of the people here actually have opinions worth listening to.
Yeah, and I remember how obnoxious you were about your super special OC too. Which is why I had you blocked ever since we first interacted back then.
But this new episode of farce you started was simply too spectacular to ignore. :KEK:
 

dolosolo

Newbie
Oct 13, 2021
82
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dont really understand the kalysea morality debate when coersion into sexual slavery for (what is HOPEFULLY) the greater good vs the demons, in a sex game with lots of non consensual encounters already, is a realistic stance for a character to take. sacrificing the few for many has been a morality debate since the beginning of time.
She isn't the mc so who gaf if she isn't 100% righteous. The option to null kalysea for players who like to overcome those kindof pitfalls or just a shred of agency/interactivity is a good idea just doesn't sound like any dev or commissioners concern. The option to turn her righteous would be cool, through topping or bottoming it into/out of her, would be character assassination tho bc without her morality stance im kindof at a loss for what else kalysea is so maybe only killing her works idk. Make it cannon her smell only works on ppl with a penchant for horse cock and the mc the sacrificial lamb who turns her from her slaver ways at the cost of themselves? Fuck her till her ring backfires and becomes a chastity cage?
 
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MoneyMan181

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Sep 6, 2019
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Just using most recent post to address some things you said(even though the horse is already beaten within an inch of it's life at this point.)

While I can see what you're trying to do with the character and I honestly do think it could work, it's a bit too nuanced for a game like this. That on top of Wsan not really having an actual interest in proper world-building or character development just kind of means your vision(while a genuinely interesting one) will end up feeling a bit half-baked imo. Obviously I could be proven wrong, but I can't help but feel your plan for Kaly fits more into something like CoC1 in many ways.

I feel like all of this would go over better if either:
A) We got to actually rebuke Kalysea and have more choice in how we deal with her
B) The player genuinely got to know her and the relationship between the player and Kaly had more fluff moments, things that help us see her as more than just this dominating force that feels less like a person and more of a literal force of nature if you will.

Because as it is, and this is coming from someone who really likes the content for Kaly, it feels just kinda meh to sub for her since I don't know ANYTHING about her and there isn't any push and pull between us and her. So while the scenes are great, the process of it all feels pretty underwhelming, yknow? I feel like if we got more time to just spend time with her, both before and after the ring is made without the sex, the extra fleshing out of the character could really help a lot. But I'm not really sure how feasible that is, given Wsan's penchant for avoiding deeper character explorations.
 

Nidabutt

Member
Dec 21, 2021
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I feel like all of this would go over better if either:
A) We got to actually rebuke Kalysea and have more choice in how we deal with her
B) The player genuinely got to know her and the relationship between the player and Kaly had more fluff moments, things that help us see her as more than just this dominating force that feels less like a person and more of a literal force of nature if you will.
Personally I'd actually like really like to be able to have her as a hostile encounter, but that effectively means ditching all the nice scenes she has as a follower. Most people would just make her hostile, do her content, then reload her as a follower.

As a result, the current plan is to have the pair grow closer and for Kaly's opinions/plans to shift to better fit around the PC.
 

Furmilk

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Nov 27, 2019
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Off topic, but I made Alante a futa, but she's shooting blanks. My character is super fertile, I got the heat and fertility buff applied, and no matter how many sessions I go, nothing. Is she bugged?
 
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