Others Corruption of Champions II [v0.8.17] [Savin/Salamander Studios]

[Sacred_Lamb]

That's something that you always need to keep in mind when writing a setting. If a god/NPC can come around and solve every problem, why even have an adventure to begin with?

And that's something that they just don't fucking get. That's why games like these are supposed to be power fantasies to the player character, because if you're going to solve a problem, you should damn well have a good reason to do so.

It's why any serious setting has rules about this sort of thing. A god directly interfering with anything should always lead to a worse outcome in the end.

Exactly, there can't be other parties involved because it devalues the entire quest and story. If there are, they better have a great in-game/in-story reason to do so. You'll hear some ppl say "the Gods shouldn't solve all the problems for mortals," to that I say nonsense especially when the same gods actively interact with, fuck and breed with them, swap info, and experiment on them. The argument is moot, because they don't even obey that law, its just writer's convenience because they don't want to acknowledge that they fucked up.

Spoiler: Rant about Gods

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[Sacred_Lamb]

Then the power fantasy joke just erks me something fierce. Fact is the you don't have to create a power fantasy to have a competent MC that is important to the story.

Luke Skywalker is s great example, he's not a macho manly character but he's no bitch either, he fails and needs to be saved sometimes, but he always reasserts himself into importance through - cunning, skill, or actions. Luke is the ONE but wins in the story by showing compassion and rejecting the darkside.
In Tyranny, one Obsidian's unsung rpg goats, you play as a glorified bronze age Judge Dred that issues delegates on behalf of a Tyrannical state during a war time siege. You are given a lot situations make you feel important but you're never the biggest fish in the pond, as their are generals overseeing this just like you and you answer to someone, where ur actions are judged.
In both examples that things don't have to get into power fantasy territory inorder to make the Mc feel powerless. You don't need to defang or masculate the character inorder to showcase the fact that they are lower on the totem pole of importance. Savco honestly feel like a bunch of cuckish sycophants pandering to other cuckish sycophants.

 

[Sacred_Lamb]

To switch up my pace, I've noticed that Tobs has parasitized himself to Drifa content. Bro ruins anything he touches

 

[procrastinator101]

To switch up my pace, I've noticed that Tobs has parasitized himself to Drifa content. Bro ruins anything he touches

I think he's also the one writing Olivia's content (the bard from the dungeon). Not even out and already ruined.

 

[GS21]

Hmm... between those two reasons I vote.....
View attachment 4912603
CoC1 is still decent. CoC2 can grind the ol gears from disappointment.

Don't know how grand your memories of CoC1 is. But I went back and tried it out some months ago. After starting with and playing CoC2. It still held up. GRANTED!!! While I did play a bit of vanilla. I ultimately continued on with one of the modded versions. But even taking away the mods. The 1st one had a simplicity that in the words of Todd Howard! It Just Works. How you travel was (imo) better. The combat was better. I think the writing in CoC2 will (because it sure as hell does for me) wear on you. The characters..... eh. CoC2 has a big cast and it's fair share of good to decent non fodder so. Oh! And you are without a doubt, the Main Character.

CoC1 is what it is and it's decent. With CoC2, you see what it could be but won't.

The CoC mod devs make it a point to maintain quality control (which is funny considering its a flash text-based porn game,) so any submissions have to be faithful to both the PC and the NPC in question.
Unlike CoC2 where Tobs is allowed to take a piss on a character whenever he feels like it, if the submission doesn't fit the NPC it's rejected, or if the writer doesn't write the PC's interactions as neutrally as possible, it's also a no go.
There's a huge point of respecting the PC's autonomy, unlike 2 where you're forced into whatever fetish the writer is feeling at the moment.
CoC1's dynamic transformations that were eventually removed from 2 are likely 1's best selling point IMO. I understand they make writing scene variants difficult, having to entirely upend entire scenes just to make them fit the PC's body type, but that's kinda what made the game special. Hell, they made it work in TiTs, but then again these are the same people who can't fix a typo that's been in game since day 1.
Still, I think I actually prefer 2 purely for the novelty. The custom busts, art, maps (Was not a fan of the teleport transportation in 1). The devs just make it hard to love sometimes.

 

[icecreamman99]

To switch up my pace, I've noticed that Tobs has parasitized himself to Drifa content. Bro ruins anything he touches

Hey, Hey... he doesn't ruins anything he touches. Just most of the things touches or turns out overly long and/or makes it weird somehow.

Tobs; perfectly easy outline/story-up to do. Somehow finds a way make to long, out-of-touch/weird, and/or making it boring.
I at least don't think they fucked up anything recently so I expect it to be basic and too long.

 

[Deleted member 475691]

Spoiler: The Stakes and Pressure

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Spoiler: Power Fantasy

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Conversations like these about lore, even for or especially about games that have flaws, are pretty important for maintaining personal standards. You can learn more about what you like from experiencing things you don't, and failure's much easier to learn from than success. I've been enjoying the discussions about CoC2 and it's lore way more than the actual game for the past couple of days, but the ultimate takeaway is that now I've got a hankering for CoC1, or to just fuck off into the sunset to write fanfics about the CoC2 that could have been if it wasn't a battleground between the devs and their own playerbase.

 

[ChubbyFatBoy]

Then the power fantasy joke just erks me something fierce. Fact is the you don't have to create a power fantasy to have a competent MC that is important to the story.

Luke Skywalker is s great example, he's not a macho manly character but he's no bitch either, he fails and needs to be saved sometimes, but he always reasserts himself into importance through - cunning, skill, or actions. Luke is the ONE but wins in the story by showing compassion and rejecting the darkside.
In Tyranny, one Obsidian's unsung rpg goats, you play as a glorified bronze age Judge Dred that issues delegates on behalf of a Tyrannical state during a war time siege. You are given a lot situations make you feel important but you're never the biggest fish in the pond, as their are generals overseeing this just like you and you answer to someone, where ur actions are judged.
In both examples that things don't have to get into power fantasy territory inorder to make the Mc feel powerless. You don't need to defang or masculate the character inorder to showcase the fact that they are lower on the totem pole of importance. Savco honestly feel like a bunch of cuckish sycophants pandering to other cuckish sycophants.

True.... but! Both of those examples are missing one key turd flavored ingredient! A bunch of fanfic writers ready to put forth their own chosen ones. With some doo doo flavored sprinkles on top being. The one in charge also engaging in it.

I know it's just two words and like you said. There are ways around it by not being ass while you write. But I believe that if this game was still built around the simple idea of a power fantasy like the 1st one. A lot of these issues could've been mitigated. Not saying it would be perfect. There are ways to slip in bullshit. But!!!! If we started with the rule and a different mentality. Of their OCs won't be the biggest horse dicks on the table. From the drawing board. Things would have to fall in line to compensate..... at least better then what we currently have.

 

[Sacred_Lamb]

Hey, Hey... he doesn't ruins anything he touches. Just most of the things touches or turns out overly long and/or makes it weird somehow.

Tobs; perfectly easy outline/story-up to do. Somehow finds a way make to long, out-of-touch/weird, and/or making it boring.
I at least don't think they fucked up anything recently so I expect it to be basic and too long.

So...yah ruined. I should never think ur sex scene is boring or any of the reasons you brought up. The whole "salt mine" grift feels like lampshade to hide the fact tht his style shite.

 

[Deleted member 728308]

Tobs do have tendencies to put words and thought to reader's mouth, wish they have some kind of rule to make it that writers don't assume, act or think on behalf of pc when interacting with npc.

 

[icecreamman99]

So...yah ruined. I should never think ur sex scene is boring or any of the reasons you brought up. The whole "salt mine" grift feels like lampshade to hide the fact tht his style shite.

Yeah, Tobs come off as filler or padding for their main group.
And with Jstar doing a good job with the rest of the content for wolf cave, that's going to make it easy to think; "I'd rather wait for Jstar to comeback to this at some point instead of getting these bland sex scenes carried by their associated fetish."

 

[Sacred_Lamb]

Conversations like these about lore, even for or especially about games that have flaws, are pretty important for maintaining personal standards. You can learn more about what you like from experiencing things you don't, and failure's much easier to learn from than success. I've been enjoying the discussions about CoC2 and it's lore way more than the actual game for the past couple of days, but the ultimate takeaway is that now I've got a hankering for CoC1, or to just fuck off into the sunset to write fanfics about the CoC2 that could have been if it wasn't a battleground between the devs and their own playerbase.

Absolute truth, it has genuinely motivated me to create a worldbuilding Bible for a madmax-esq fantasy world in a similar vain to CoC. I like the concept of corruption and not just the sex bits but this otherworldly virus that turns ppl into savages, kind of like Crossed. Tho I will say that CoC is more of a spark than direct inspiration, I want none of their bullshit to influence me.

 

[Sacred_Lamb]

True.... but! Both of those examples are missing one key turd flavored ingredient! A bunch of fanfic writers ready to put forth their own chosen ones. With some doo doo flavored sprinkles on top being. The one in charge also engaging in it.

I know it's just two words and like you said. There are ways around it by not being ass while you write. But I believe that if this game was still built around the simple idea of a power fantasy like the 1st one. A lot of these issues could've been mitigated. Not saying it would be perfect. There are ways to slip in bullshit. But!!!! If we started with the rule and a different mentality. Of their OCs won't be the biggest horse dicks on the table. From the drawing board. Things would have to fall in line to compensate..... at least better then what we currently have.

Honestly man, I wouldn't even trust them with a power fantasy, they'd find some way to cock it up

 

[Sacred_Lamb]

Tobs do have tendencies to put words and thought to reader's mouth, wish they have some kind of rule to make it that writers don't assume, act or think on behalf of pc when interacting with npc.

Exactly like why isn't there a design doc or Bible with these rules?!
Is it so hard to establish how we want the player character to be and a handful of character traits the writers and the players roleplay into?

 

[Daddums]

Exactly like why isn't there a design doc or Bible with these rules?!
Is it so hard to establish how we want the player character to be and a handful of character traits the writers and the players roleplay into?

Someone here, I think, described that this entire game is basically just Savin and his crew's DnD campaign. We're just here to witness it. You don't need anything other than that their OCs get what they want.

 

[Sacred_Lamb]

Got me thinking the real victim of the shittu writing is the Player Character and not just us as players. Poor thing is but a gelatinous amalgamation with a personality that flips with each interaction from person to person worse than a Persona Protagonist

 

[Sacred_Lamb]

Someone here, I think, described that this entire game is basically just Savin and his crew's DnD campaign. We're just here to witness it. You don't need anything other than that their OCs get what they want.

Tht makes it even worst and not for the reason you think. Because if that's the case, why not just base the story on THOSE CHARACTERS INSTEAD OF FORCING US TO WITNESS THIS SHIT! Like a Jrpg party where we're along for the story, why put us through this shit? Just to suffer?

 

[Jbuster]

True.... but! Both of those examples are missing one key turd flavored ingredient! A bunch of fanfic writers ready to put forth their own chosen ones. With some doo doo flavored sprinkles on top being. The one in charge also engaging in it.

I know it's just two words and like you said. There are ways around it by not being ass while you write. But I believe that if this game was still built around the simple idea of a power fantasy like the 1st one. A lot of these issues could've been mitigated. Not saying it would be perfect. There are ways to slip in bullshit. But!!!! If we started with the rule and a different mentality. Of their OCs won't be the biggest horse dicks on the table. From the drawing board. Things would have to fall in line to compensate..... at least better then what we currently have.

Whole thing could be fixed, at least in some capacity, by giving a compelling reason for the gods to not interfere and recognizing whatever other op character out there as someone with their own agenda and unwilling or unable to help

Spoiler: On why being a futa demon's cum sock shouldn't stop you from saving the world

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[Jbuster]

Tht makes it even worst and not for the reason you think. Because if that's the case, why not just base the story on THOSE CHARACTERS INSTEAD OF FORCING US TO WITNESS THIS SHIT! Like a Jrpg party where we're along for the story, why put us through this shit? Just to suffer?

I looked for them on youtube
Never again man, never again

 

[Yeppers34]

Somewhat of a rant here but in my opinion I feel like the game would be just a tiny bit better if instead of allowing us to make our own character you just get a selection of some already pre made characters and just completely take out the choices in the game (considering the choices you already make in the game don't matter). It's like felkesste said you've essentially made a character for Dnd and the DM is making all the decisions for you, it doesn't matter how you play or what you choose the end result is what savin and co tell you what your character is supposed to do. Hell I've gotten more character growth and player choice out of a hosted game then ive ever gotten from coc2