Others Corruption of Champions II [v0.8.17] [Savin/Salamander Studios]

[procrastinator101]

Somewhat of a rant here but in my opinion I feel like the game would be just a tiny bit better if instead of allowing us to make our own character you just get a selection of some already pre made characters and just completely take out the choices in the game (considering the choices you already make in the game don't matter). It's like felkesste said you've essentially made a character for Dnd and the DM is making all the decisions for you, it doesn't matter how you play or what you choose the end result is what savin and co tell you what your character is supposed to do. Hell I've gotten more character growth and player choice out of a hosted game then ive ever gotten from coc2

Hell, at that point just make the companions into the supposed player character. Brint, Cait and Etheryn as your "starter character" or whatever.

 

[Yeppers34]

Hell, at that point just make the companions into the supposed player character. Brint, Cait and Etheryn as your "starter character" or whatever.

Right like make them legacy characters like in baulders gate or divinity

 

[procrastinator101]

Right like make them legacy characters like in baulders gate or divinity

Exactly. Just, you know, instead of it being on a game that just defined a generation of games, it's in a shitty porn game.

 

[MisterPinkie]

I just thought of a kinda interesting reason as to why the gods don't directly deal with Kas (spoilers of ingame lore stuff)

Spoiler: Theorizing

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So they're just lying about how they can solve everything really easily, but they have to pretend they're in control to not lose faith/followers that CAN act against Kas while potentially limiting her movement, since as long as she THINKS they're threatening to her she won't act against them directly. And maybe the reason they know they're weak to corruption is that one of the three we've not interacted with WAS lost to corruption almost immediately, and now they need the soul research to try and put their soul back in?

Or maybe they just have a betting pool on which super special OC saves the day idk

 

[Deleted member 475691]

-snip-

Honestly, I'd love a demon that was actually based around temptation on some level. Kass gets hyped up a lot as being some kind of supreme seductress, but she shows up, bluntly tells you she's going to steal your soul, crudely goes on and on about the vulgar things she wants to do to your body, tries to force physical transformations on you during sex, and then peaces out immediately after cumming to go turn another batch of locals into perverted parodies of who they once were just so you can fight them in your seemingly futile efforts to '''stop her'''.

Spoiler

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Somewhat of a rant here but in my opinion I feel like the game would be just a tiny bit better if instead of allowing us to make our own character you just get a selection of some already pre made characters and just completely take out the choices in the game (considering the choices you already make in the game don't matter).

There's a lot of sandbox games in perpetual development on sites like Patreon that gain tons of backers just by offering character customization. The fastest way to get furries and weirdos like me to start paying attention is to offer them a chance to be whoever they want to be in the world you've written for them. Even if this game's customization is entirely surface level, just having it there is enough to bring in a lot of cash. As a point of comparison, it's like NTR, including the concept of netorare brings in more buyers for that alone, even if it's just a single line of dialogue at the very start of the game that implies that there's some kind of preexisting relationship to be faithful to, that's enough to sell the game to some folks.

They can't completely get rid of character creation/customization because that's what brought them their audience and money in the first place. If that's gone, a lot of those folks would just walk and stop tossing money at the game. People have forked over cash just to have new transformations to use for their idealized avatar.

Honestly, I have a hard time playing any game that won't let me create my own character for myself, even if I recognize that the game is good, if I can't even name the protagonist at the very least, I struggle with getting invested. But yes, if I sit down to make a character I feel really good about in a game of D&D, and the game starts but the DM is deciding all my dialogue, actions, and reactions to things for me, I no longer feel like that's my character, and I have no idea what I'm even doing there. Very frustrating, because it would take them LESS work to just not write words into my mouth in the first place, there are examples of good interactive silent protagonist stuff all throughout modern media. I can't imagine they don't know how to write interactions that way.

 

[Yeppers34]

Honestly, I'd love a demon that was actually based around temptation on some level. Kass gets hyped up a lot as being some kind of supreme seductress, but she shows up, bluntly tells you she's going to steal your soul, crudely goes on and on about the vulgar things she wants to do to your body, tries to force physical transformations on you during sex, and then peaces out immediately after cumming to go turn another batch of locals into perverted parodies of who they once were just so you can fight them in your seemingly futile efforts to '''stop her'''.

Spoiler

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There's a lot of sandbox games in perpetual development on sites like Patreon that gain tons of backers just by offering character customization. The fastest way to get furries and weirdos like me to start paying attention is to offer them a chance to be whoever they want to be in the world you've written for them. Even if this game's customization is entirely surface level, just having it there is enough to bring in a lot of cash. As a point of comparison, it's like NTR, including the concept of netorare brings in more buyers for that alone, even if it's just a single line of dialogue at the very start of the game that implies that there's some kind of preexisting relationship to be faithful to, that's enough to sell the game to some folks.

They can't completely get rid of character creation/customization because that's what brought them their audience and money in the first place. If that's gone, a lot of those folks would just walk and stop tossing money at the game. People have forked over cash just to have new transformations to use for their idealized avatar.

Honestly, I have a hard time playing any game that won't let me create my own character for myself, even if I recognize that the game is good, if I can't even name the protagonist at the very least, I struggle with getting invested. But yes, if I sit down to make a character I feel really good about in a game of D&D, and the game starts but the DM is deciding all my dialogue, actions, and reactions to things for me, I no longer feel like that's my character, and I have no idea what I'm even doing there. Very frustrating, because it would take them LESS work to just not write words into my mouth in the first place, there are examples of good interactive silent protagonist stuff all throughout modern media. I can't imagine they don't know how to write interactions that way.

I mean i like me some character creation myself but I can also enjoy sitting back and watching someone else's story unfold, but the issue is that if you're going to present your game as something where your choices matter and your character evolves by how you play then i wanna see that, if im playing a 6'3 orc that's a hardened soldier they should act as such and not get folded like a napkin by a gilf kitsune and almost fucked to death. Like take mass effect for example, you can customize how Shepard looks and his backstory but hes still going to be commander Shepherd the first human specter. The game already has an end game in mind but it's your actions and the decisions you make that can change the outcome of things. But here in coc2 any decision you make literally doesn't matter and your character is an amorphus blob that will change their entire personality to fit the situation, the ultimate power switch dominant in one scene and a little submissive sissy in the next.

 

[Deleted member 475691]

Spoiler: Theorizing

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That could be an interesting angle, the idea that their kind is only half a step away from turning into every bit the same kind of twisted demon that Kass and Lethice are if any corruption gets into their system, and would definitely justify the lot of them choosing to keep their personal distance. You could also sort of justify why Lumia or whoever might send the orcs a vision leading them to the region, they need mortals to kill the demons on their behalf since mortal souls are a bit more resilient (and MUCH more disposable as far as the gods are concerned).

But that just raises questions about why they're so passive and accepting of how the corruption is spreading throughout the region, you'd think that if corruption were that frightening to them, they'd be doing as much as they can to cull all possible sources of it using as many of their personal champions as they could muster. Mallach being fine with Kass fucking the souls out of an entire temple of his followers and casually deciding to return those souls to their followers now soulless corrupt demon forms, and meeting Kass herself face to face like that would also become a strange move.
Which isn't to say that so much of everything surrounding these gods isn't already a mess of strange moves and inexplicable decisions.

Still, it beats the explanation that the gods are 'just busy right now' by a long shot.

But here in coc2 any decision you make literally doesn't matter and your character is an amorphus blob that will change their entire personality to fit the situation, the ultimate power switch dominant in one scene and a little submissive sissy in the next.

No yeah, I totally agree with you. There's not even a minor attempt at smoothing out the transitions between writers, it's a total free for all and everyone has their own mental image of who the player character is- the only one who doesn't get asked that question is the player themselves. I just meant that they're keeping the facade up for the sake of cash. Their backers want the character creation, that's something highly in demand for this particular genre of lewd games. If they removed it entirely, there'd be a sudden drop in support.

 

[jkh115]

Well i manage to wade through this game by making the PC someone i dont like and making them go through this game as this is a punishment worse than death.

 

[fetishgirl]

Wait it's actually canon that one of the side characters can actually do better at being champ than you? Than why isnt he out there fightning already?

Wouldn't be the first time this happened either. For example captain Leoric, Lieutenant Jen's absent commander appears magically to beat the crap out of the MC to protect her from you because they are just that impressive. However in current CoC 2 by this point you have beaten up an interdimensional eldritch abomination (that even goddess Lumia fears) and multiple powerful demons and a cult leader. Keep in mind that Leoric beats you up no matter how far you are into the game's story.

As for this year mayternity while Yvlid's content is my personal fav over Alante (a low bar I know) now that I have done it. However it is wild to tie her pregancy quest to a major story decision like what you will do with Khorminos. I seriously doubt they will let you invade Khorminos with the Orcs this is CoC 2 we are talking about .

Having the Yvlid content and the Drifa busts did help and I do like corrupt Drifa, it is sad that another non companion character is better than most the companions. Outside of Brint/Brienne and Arona I think they have made stupid decisions with every other companion. The best pregnancy content has been outside of Mayternity so I stick by my earlier conclusion of scrapping Mayternity doing pregnancy whenever rather than restricting it to an imaginary deadline they gave themselves when they suck at keeping to deadlines in general.

 

[Tsubuhaza]

I looked for them on youtube
Never again man, never again
View attachment 4913891

Say, how many videos were it again? 525? I remember it was some absurd number and they all lasted around as long as a soccer match or so. "Guy must have come up with enough futas to fill the San Siro!"

Somewhat of a rant here but in my opinion I feel like the game would be just a tiny bit better if instead of allowing us to make our own character you just get a selection of some already pre made characters and just completely take out the choices in the game (considering the choices you already make in the game don't matter). It's like felkesste said you've essentially made a character for Dnd and the DM is making all the decisions for you, it doesn't matter how you play or what you choose the end result is what savin and co tell you what your character is supposed to do. Hell I've gotten more character growth and player choice out of a hosted game then ive ever gotten from coc2

I think this was one of those things they couldn't do because it was one of the appeals in CoC1 and they still needed to squeeze money out of the name, taking out something so integral could screw everything up. Before SavCo screwed things up themselves.

Right like make them legacy characters like in baulders gate or divinity

Oh, I think CoC1 had like uh... backer/patron/whatever-the-fuck preset characters you could pick to skip character settings. I found it cute that they were all absolute fucking freaks which makes me think that they were only there because you probably shouldn't be able to pull them off normally anyway.

So they're just lying about how they can solve everything really easily, but they have to pretend they're in control to not lose faith/followers that CAN act against Kas while potentially limiting her movement, since as long as she THINKS they're threatening to her she won't act against them directly. And maybe the reason they know they're weak to corruption is that one of the three we've not interacted with WAS lost to corruption almost immediately, and now they need the soul research to try and put their soul back in?

Or maybe they just have a betting pool on which super special OC saves the day idk

I think the first option would actually be pretty decent writing, them being kind of like the Greek gods that were usually rather absorbed and vain, failing to see reason and just forcing/lying their way around things. Alas, that could possibly accrue Power Fantasy Points so it's probably the latter.

Wouldn't be the first time this happened either. For example captain Leoric, Lieutenant Jen's absent commander appears magically to beat the crap of the MC to protect her from you because they are just that impressive. However in current CoC 2 by this point you have beaten up an interdimensional eldritch abomination (that even goddess Lumia fears) and multiple powerful demons and a cult leader. Keep in mind that Leoric beats you up no matter how far you are into the game's story.

I just realized I've barely engaged with Jen at all. Well, more material for the ignore list, I suppose.

...

Seriously, someone in the team has a fetish with just springing fucking weirdos you have fuck all reason to care for or some shit?

 

[ChubbyFatBoy]

Somewhat of a rant here but in my opinion I feel like the game would be just a tiny bit better if instead of allowing us to make our own character you just get a selection of some already pre made characters and just completely take out the choices in the game (considering the choices you already make in the game don't matter). It's like felkesste said you've essentially made a character for Dnd and the DM is making all the decisions for you, it doesn't matter how you play or what you choose the end result is what savin and co tell you what your character is supposed to do. Hell I've gotten more character growth and player choice out of a hosted game then ive ever gotten from coc2

I mean for consistency sake. That would probably be better. But that would be a questionable kinetic novel. Like it's one thing to want a game of DnD. It's another to want them in full control of it. At least with the current game. Even if they shit the bed. They still have to have some consideration for the players with everything. We get some choice to engage or disengage at least. If they get pre-mades, we taking horse cock without question. Like if they gave us 5 characters to select from. 1st 2 are full bottoms. 3rd is still a sub. 4th is at best a switch, and 5th is our current level of "power fantasy."

We'd need clear terms of who is in charge of what character and path for that character. Unless!!! they donating their OCs as something that can be chosen. And even that depends who they give. And I know I joke a lot, but I am serious with the butt stuff. I don't trust them with my character's asshole.... or mouth.

 

[Sacred_Lamb]

I mean for consistency sake. That would probably be better. But that would be a questionable kinetic novel. Like it's one thing to want a game of DnD. It's another to want them in full control of it. At least with the current game. Even if they shit the bed. They still have to have some consideration for the players with everything. We get some choice to engage or disengage at least. If they get pre-mades, we taking horse cock without question. Like if they gave us 5 characters to select from. 1st 2 are full bottoms. 3rd is still a sub. 4th is at best a switch, and 5th is our current level of "power fantasy."

We'd need clear terms of who is in charge of what character and path for that character. Unless!!! they donating their OCs as something that can be chosen. And even that depends who they give. And I know I joke a lot, but I am serious with the butt stuff. I don't trust them with my character's asshole.... or mouth.

The thing is my boi, is that u already didn't have a choice, your PC is already written into liking tht shit by virtue of them having ur PC oogle and comment on how big and juicy that futa horse cock is. You're just holding them back by not pressing button to see the scene...you bigot.

 

[Sacred_Lamb]

Personally I'm not too married to the thought off a complete sandbox. If anything I think a fusion between the approaches of OG Fallout, Disco Elysium, and Dishonored would make for a great experience for an rpg of indie scale that focuses on interactivity and consequences.
Open "levels" that can be explored and interacted, with set locations that progresses when a plot point has been met.
Think of it this way, in the beginning of CoC2 Act1 things layout as regular but ur on a timer where if you don't solve issues like the centaur raiders and Allie you'll get a fucked up version of plot progression that colours how things move forward in Act2.

 

[Deleted member 475691]

Think of it this way, in the beginning of CoC2 Act1 things layout as regular but ur on a timer where if you don't solve issues like the centaur raiders and Allie you'll get a fucked up version of plot progression that colours how things move forward in Act2.

Geez, can you imagine Savin and his crew trying to program and balance timers? Especially with how much slogging back and forth the maps make you do early on, and the RNG that is Exploring to find the straight road you've been walking down's next block to walk along? Not to mention the bad luck of having to stop and rest because your party is just about wiped from a bad encounter, or the unpredictable nature of time passing during events unexpectedly because some writer wanted you to spend six hours having sex with their waifu after a fade-to-black to spare themselves from having to write anything about that six hours.
The safe option would be to make the timers extremely generous and so the only reason the player should theoretically fail them is choosing to spend weeks humping and being humped back at the inn, but Savin's gang really aren't the patient and supportive type when it comes to their players. It'd quickly become an inside joke amongst them that the playerbase just needs to git gud and speedrun the RNG to 'get their precious happy ending that they clearly don't deserve, because this isn't a power fantasy!'

I love sandboxes personally, the freedom to explore means that you can find all kinds of secrets and details hidden all over the place. CoC2's maps are pointlessly large though, and not at all utilized for much of anything let alone secrets. I have no idea what the point of them is, aside from the possibility that of it being what TiTS was already doing at the time this game began development so Savin felt like he should be doing it too.

That childlike sense of wonder that comes from asking what's over the next hill is practically universal- even if it adulthood makes it easy to guess that there's just another hill over that one- (if not an invisible wall even.) If a game can bring that sense of wonder and fun in exploration though, people always seem to respond positively to it and get hooked on playing the game front to back to see it all. Disco Elysium and the Fallout series are good examples of that feeling, you want to know what you're going to find and can get pretty into exploring every nook and cranny.

CoC2 doesn't really reward exploration though, one tile's more or less the same as any other aside from what enemies can spawn there.

 

[procrastinator101]

In Tyranny, one Obsidian's unsung rpg goats, you play as a glorified bronze age Judge Dred that issues delegates on behalf of a Tyrannical state during a war time siege.

Man, Tyranny deserved an updated re-release with all the fixings Obsidian couldn't fit in on the original thing.

 

[Sacred_Lamb]

Man Tyranny deserved so much better but it is what it is, I just hope someone looks to it for inspiration for game deving.

 

[Sacred_Lamb]

I love sandboxes personally, the freedom to explore means that you can find all kinds of secrets and details hidden all over the place. CoC2's maps are pointlessly large though, and not at all utilized for much of anything let alone secrets. I have no idea what the point of them is, aside from the possibility that of it being what TiTS was already doing at the time this game began development so Savin felt like he should be doing it too.

I get what you mean, the waterfall test is usually a great way to test if a Dev will reward exploration. But how would u reward exploration in the tile format the they use? You'd have to use the various factors n numbs tht you allow the player to turn, such as traits that Savco made pointless into something that would the reveal options on tiles when normally you wouldn't even see that option, and/or items in your inventory doing the same thing. But all that would need someone that actually cares about making a game.
Just following what others do won't end up with that energy to create things that take advantage of mechanics and how they would sync up.

That childlike sense of wonder that comes from asking what's over the next hill is practically universal- even if it adulthood makes it easy to guess that there's just another hill over that one- (if not an invisible wall even.) If a game can bring that sense of wonder and fun in exploration though, people always seem to respond positively to it and get hooked on playing the game front to back to see it all. Disco Elysium and the Fallout series are good examples of that feeling, you want to know what you're going to find and can get pretty into exploring every nook and cranny.

Disco n Fallout reward you with surprise interactions and situations that deepen either your character, fleshout the world, or just is a neat reference to obey of their inspirations. Coc2 is very hollow in that way.

 

[Deleted member 475691]

I get what you mean, the waterfall test is usually a great way to test if a Dev will reward exploration. But how would u reward exploration in the tile format the they use?

Disco n Fallout reward you with surprise interactions and situations that deepen either your character, fleshout the world, or just is a neat reference to obey of their inspirations. Coc2 is very hollow in that way.

Spoiler: I Yap A Lot

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[Frostman86]

I just thought of a kinda interesting reason as to why the gods don't directly deal with Kas (spoilers of ingame lore stuff)

Spoiler: Theorizing

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So they're just lying about how they can solve everything really easily, but they have to pretend they're in control to not lose faith/followers that CAN act against Kas while potentially limiting her movement, since as long as she THINKS they're threatening to her she won't act against them directly. And maybe the reason they know they're weak to corruption is that one of the three we've not interacted with WAS lost to corruption almost immediately, and now they need the soul research to try and put their soul back in?

Or maybe they just have a betting pool on which super special OC saves the day idk

Honestly gods in any video game medium are tricky matter to deal with. Either you got DnD stuff where gods are explicitly forbidden from interfering with mortals directly, enforced by Ao(except kinda Lolth), or they're out there doing stuff.
But CoC2 really has rather flimsy reasons for them not doing things. Just standing there like plenty of other OC's acting like they could totally wrap the story up but won't for "reasons".
All in all, all it does is make Kas feel less of a threat, and diminishes both Kas and CoC2 gods. And my image of them is already low considering how annoying i find Cait's god to be. All in all, feels like missed oportunity. I wouldn't mind Kas just defeating all of them. Or if they were never directly in the story to begin with. It just limits the scope considering how overall wasted they feel.

 

[Frostman86]

Also, one thing i rather dislike is how compared to Trials in Tainted Space, there is no way to put a bigger pic for champion. You only got some 400x400 or so pic, and that's it.
Meanwhile TiTs lets you put a huge pic and have it on display constantly.