Others Corruption of Champions II [v0.8.17] [Savin/Salamander Studios]

[NyaaRrar]

Whenever viewing this thread, there's never talk about the gameplay, which in and of itself speaks volumes. The greatest grievance I this game and just any western sandbox is the gear based progression supplemented by a party. Plainly put, if the player doesn't have the party composition and gear they're fucked, literally in this case. And what little room there is for leveling is quickly put down by the tiny areas of this game and wild variations in encounters and sub-areas. The player could be fine fighting one random battle in an area only to be completely ran over because they went one tile too far, this design is insufferable.

The areas are lackluster as well, there's plains with horses, hills with orcs, and forest with fuck all for starting areas. Guess where the player is expected to go first, the fuck all area. And what is with this group of writers and starting the player off in forest or jungles. CoC 1 you start in a forest, TiTs after the tutorial forest (it was the first zone in earlier version before the hacking tutorials), and this game forest. Then the player goes to snowy wasteland with kitsunes because screw any sense of cohesion this is weeb territory (get out this is a time sink with no value), going from centaurs, orcs, trolls, and imps to samurai land. This setting is second thought to the fetishes, which aren't supported by poor writing.

So what does this game have going well? The position on the same site as TiTs I guess.

 

[Alterism]

So the question is - what's better? A hollow choice or a lack of choice entirely? You mentioned how, despite having an entire confidence system created and developed just for Ryn, her quest has the exact same resolution. Corruption system doesn't alter anything. A bunch of other quest have choices, yet no real consequences or alterations to the world. It could be writers being lazy, it could be that they simply do not have the ability to do such massive changes. Whatever the case, they gave you a choice because that's what people expect them to do. It's an illusion of player's agency. Would it be better if they didn't even try?

Here's the thing. this isn't a one or the other thing because TiTS did this and so did CoC1. There are a lot of variations and they all lead to different conclusions. Some of which having lasting consequences.

Now, I could make some concessions on expectations due to companions and their recurring nature requiring the game to keep track of more variables. But none of that matters due to not being able to interact or change anything with the companions already there.

Examples:
Viviane has like one line in Ryn Quest 2.
So does Brienne.
Lyric has been in your backpack for years and has nothing to say about anything.
Quint (and Atugia) remain a mute noncharacters.
They've limited all options and they still can't even deliver so much as basic companion dialogue. It's insane.


There are a LOT of porn games on the market now and a large number of them successfully achieve the goal of making the player choices matter. A text based porn game with a few images has way more freedom in the sheer amount of shit you can actually do.

You've got less shit to worry about from a raw mechanical scale and you're not spending months in processing time rendering 40 minutes in animations alongside your 50k words.

Agency
There are single ending, mono heroine VNs that give more player input. Even something as saying something and an NPC responding positively impacts player engagement.
Choosing what to discuss about a predicament in a dungeon and being told in two blocks of 5k words are worlds apart in player engagement.

It's pretty unreal to even fathom that this game came from parts of the same guys. Even Savin is slackin'.

The Federation Quest on Myrellion:

• Even the mission briefing is you inquiring into things and casing out the situation
• At the start you can choose 3 different options for flirting with an ant amazon (antmazon?)
• Have multiple ways to proceed through the dungeon (bully daughter, bust/fight tank, fuck around and find out)
• And the queen has multiple ways of being engaged (talking or fighting)
• With multiple resolutions to the quest (living on Mhen'ga, with the kui-tan, captured, slain)

I'm not asking for like Alpha Protocol where you can pick 9 different text options per response to really narrow down the kind of jackass you'd love to be. I'm just saying being able to engage with the game without entire blocks of exposition thrown at me where the character questions, intuits, and acts on a situation all without any input would be preferred.

 

[Tau_Iota]

Snip

Ye I agree, I just meant like yknow, don't give the impression that no one is fucking. Example, you can see the maid scene at the Wayfort whenever you want. Don't have it procc automatically, let the player choose to interact with it. If you really want it to procc, have it do that once. Then the player is aware the fucking is happening, and they can move on. One of the reasons I'd prefer to be aware of any fucking going on is, no surprises like Azzy. Imagine you had no idea that Cait was a super slut until you got to Khor'Minos, and suddenly she's under a table sucking dicks. You got attached to her, really enjoyed her character, and now suddenly she's a turboslut?? People would be ranting and raving about how they ruined Cait, but she was always like that. The player just wasn't made aware. That's where I think the "People are constantly fucking" complaint comes from. It's that it forces you to acknowledge it constantly. Like thanks guys, just trying to grab some fucking gear. I don't wanna dismiss three different events twice on my way in and out.

I have never so strongly wished I possessed the skills required to make a game, because this prompt is sending my brain into overdrive.

You and me both, I have like 6 different projects languishing on my HDD because I'm too smooth-brained to code properly lmfao

So the question is - what's better? A hollow choice or a lack of choice entirely?

Lack of choice, but don't lie and say it's a Role-playing game. It's really that simple not gonna lie. Like don't call your game an FPS if it's a third-person hack and slash, people will be upset.

Whenever viewing this thread, there's never talk about the gameplay, which in and of itself speaks volumes. The greatest grievance I this game and just any western sandbox is the gear based progression supplemented by a party. Plainly put, if the player doesn't have the party composition and gear they're fucked, literally in this case. And what little room there is for leveling is quickly put down by the tiny areas of this game and wild variations in encounters and sub-areas. The player could be fine fighting one random battle in an area only to be completely ran over because they went one tile too far, this design is insufferable.

The areas are lackluster as well, there's plains with horses, hills with orcs, and forest with fuck all for starting areas. Guess where the player is expected to go first, the fuck all area. And what is with this group of writers and starting the player off in forest or jungles. CoC 1 you start in a forest, TiTs after the tutorial forest (it was the first zone in earlier version before the hacking tutorials), and this game forest. Then the player goes to snowy wasteland with kitsunes because screw any sense of cohesion this is weeb territory (get out this is a time sink with no value), going from centaurs, orcs, trolls, and imps to samurai land. This setting is second thought to the fetishes, which aren't supported by poor writing.

So what does this game have going well? The position on the same site as TiTs I guess.

110% hard agree, the levelling system is shit because they can't be assed to do more than one level at a time apparently. That's what cheating is for I guess, because I can be assed to properly compose my gear and party (and their comp) in a porn game that doesn't respect my time lmfao And I think they always do "Forest" first because it's the easiest to compose enemies for. Notice that each game also features bees in the Starter Area?

 

[Lucky_I]

The areas are lackluster as well, there's plains with horses, hills with orcs, and forest with fuck all for starting areas. Guess where the player is expected to go first, the fuck all area. And what is with this group of writers and starting the player off in forest or jungles. CoC 1 you start in a forest, TiTs after the tutorial forest (it was the first zone in earlier version before the hacking tutorials), and this game forest. Then the player goes to snowy wasteland with kitsunes because screw any sense of cohesion this is weeb territory (get out this is a time sink with no value), going from centaurs, orcs, trolls, and imps to samurai land.

I mean that's just your average game design. A lot RPGs and just games of every genre in general throughout history have had a forest or jungle as one of the main starting areas/the first area or mission you go to. That's how it's always been. It's like games having snow or underwater levels.

For example: Legend Of Zelda, Mass Effect 1, Dark Souls 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Pokemon, Titanfall 2, Final Fantasy, Nier, Elden Ring, Tales of, etc

And the area after the Old Forest is the Frostwood, which is a snow covered forest(there's the kitsune lumberjack getting wood and everything). The frozen wasteland is past that, next to Winter City. That seems pretty cohesive imo.

 

[Biostar]

It's honestly funny how freaking gacha games sometimes handle this is a slightly better way. They don't have any meaningful choices and you cannot change your relationships with character at all, but just having options over what your character says that highlight their personality traits sort of goes a long way into making you understand the character you are playing as and what sort of person they are. What I wonder if having less variables means that the player is more okay with lack of agency. If there is no corruption meter, there is no anticipation that you can alter your personality by corrupting yourself. If there is no ability to pick or ignore companions - will the player be more okay with them tagging along without permission? Does lack visual customization makes it feel more appropriate when MC a doesn't full reign over every single decision? It's seems like a difficult balance of meaning versus... "vibes".

They already created expectations by making it a sequel of CoC. They wanted to coast on name recognition but didn't actually want to do the work for what a sequel is suppose to do. Then they get all standoffish whenever someone rightfully calls them out on it.

 

[NyaaRrar]

I mean that's just your average game design. A lot RPGs and just games of every genre in general throughout history have had a forest or jungle as one of the main starting areas/the first area or mission you go to. That's how it's always been. It's like games having snow or underwater levels.

For example: Legend Of Zelda, Mass Effect 1, Dark Souls 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Pokemon, Titanfall 2, Final Fantasy, Nier, Elden Ring, Tales of, etc

And the area after the Old Forest is the Frostwood, which is a snow covered forest(there's the kitsune lumberjack getting wood and everything). The frozen wasteland is past that, next to Winter City. That seems pretty cohesive imo.

Those games advantages that CoC doesn't decent world building. In Zelda the protagonist is elvish, MS1 the colony is a small farm world, Dark Souls uses the forest for suspense, DA Inquisition if I remember the plot correctly the player character is an exile to some sort of cult that hides in woods, Pokemon has several starting locations for the different regions, Titanfall 2 has a ship crash land I think, FF again has several starting location some of which are more inspired than other, Nier I don't know about, Elden Ring ditto for Dark Souls, Tale of ditto for FF. The use of woods, jungles needs to be justified, and CoC use of the forest is uninspired as well as bland. There's nothing inspired about the descriptions, the enemies are forgettable, and stated else where the space just seems to be effort to hit a word count.

There could have been more to the initial city that could have served as a initial area. Hawkehorne is where the story starts yet never serves any purpose besides being a companion dumping ground and a money sink. The hamlet could have been a bit a larger and a bit of sprawl to the north where there could have been more varied encounters other than bees, flowers, elves, and angry doggos.

 

[CantThinkOfOne]

Lolwut, for all games you mentioned, forests are just an easy region to design and a good place to imagine people starting their adventure. Elden Ring most certainly doesn't use the starting forest for 'suspense'. The Tree sentinel is for suspense.

 

[Cream♡Pie]

Class is OP but the playerbase of said class can be quite toxic /s

 

[Warphorror]

I've always considered the main quest/story line in CoC1 to be more of a pretext to justify sexual adventures and depravity in a sandbox game and yet I personnally think it better uses script writing tricks to make the player invested mainly by making it personnal.
You begin the game as the champion sent by your village elders to protect the portal, you barely fend off a lowly imp sent to capture the champion/sacrifice (more on that later), your first name enemy is not a powerfull demon making you quickly understand you are the underdog whatever you'll win, you'll win it by your own effort and by getting stronger.
The reveal in the first dungeon that you are not meant to be a champion but a sacrifice in fact gives you the player more agency, your fight against the demon is no longer on behalf of some elders from some village but of your own will. The player is the engine that push the story forward not anything else, if you decide to stay pure and fight the demons or become the top demon is based on your own will not anyone else.
This is personnal, this is relatable. Without a personnal stake or motivation a big quest like saving the world is too distant to be fully engaging, that's why you never begin a roleplaying game by saving the world but by smaller personnal stake that slowly reveal a bigger threat and become personnally linked to your character. If you learned of a nuclear terrorist attack you alert the autority but if a friend is attacked by thug under your eyes you're more likely to intervene.
The world of Mareth is also better written for your character being the deciding factor, you arrive after the catastrophe, the battle is mostly over, the gods and their champions defeated or seriously weakened making them in need of a new one to fight Lilith no bulshit reason to not have them intervene, the complacents gods defeated by the demons and now the complacent demon queen about to suffer the same fate.

In comparaison CoCII with so much story focus completly failed to either make it personnal or at least make the player the engine/motivation for the story to progress. You always do something because somebody else need/want to or in reaction to Kasyrra action, never for your own good. While Kasyrra want to use your soul, never do you actively seek something to protect your soul or became stronger or find an artifact that can 100% defeat her. The soul protecting ring you get is not something you learned about and actively went for your own good but because disguised Kas sent you get it and at the beginning of the quest it wasn't said it was for you that was just the nice surprise at the end. The same for giving your soul to a god, it's an offer they make after you did some things for them but not the reason you seek them out.
The reward you get are not what you seek but the payement you receive for doing errand for other character. Because you never seek anything for yourself. Helping Etheryn (that I found adorable) is not a side quest you do because you like her (as a friend or lover) but because you have to in order to progress Kas story. Compare it to Urta and Marble quest, completly optional only progress because you are into them. Also the kid interaction, in coc1 either they were kinda feral and went into the wild or you had visit in the mother home but here nothing except for a fox that began as a wholesome content and ended in daughter voyeurism.
The nail in the coffin of writing mistake is Kasyrra being from the beginning a world ending threat in a world where gods and powerful champions exist, aware of her existence but not insta killed.
If she was presented as not being a threat to the people direcly under the gods protection but only a local warlord level then the gods not intervening and considering her and demons on the same level as other mortal being and thus deserving a chance at life and coexistence could make sense. Then her experimenting with portals and attracting the wraith in a repeat of the past (like the player discover) and not caring for consequences despite knowing them because she is litteraly incapable to deviate from her desires as a demon. The quest of stopping her from using your soul by either killing her or dominating her demon style and redirecting her desires naturally transform from being personnal to save the world as a bonus.

My conclusion is that despite not being story heavy and more sandboxy coc1 (and TiTS also follow a same pattern although maybe not as well) feels more engaging and more about you while CoCII is errandboy/girl/herm simulator.

 

[Alterism]

Is there a way to turn off the auto procs for the maids in the Wayfort? It's weird to see it all the time. Also, the tiles already have a button to access the maids anyway.

No.

 

[Amnelis]

They should have scalled down the story like TiTS. Make it so that the MC is a foreigner that goes to Savarra(?) looking for adventure and joins some sort of guild under Garth & Brother Sanders. Through your quests, involving issues more mundane rather than saving the world, you would run into Kas every now and again. Initially she'd be a low tier villain just fucking shit up by getting some people corrupted. Her trying to take over Winter City would be the most OP part of her plan & would happen way latter in the storyline.

 

[Kodek]

Incredibly so, they can easily fix the problem about CoC2 feeling like a visual novel and not an rpg, where you have control of who you can become and your choices can heavily influence what happens. It's a very maleable game. They can choose to give a big arc about MC's past and intentions: Why they hade arrived in Hawktorne? Where did they came from? Why are they who they are and what choices led them to be who they are before you took control of them? Do they have family? Did they die or the MC simple choose to leave them behind? It's not difficult to do this in CoC2 as the game is friendly to changes/add ins in it already stabilished story (see Berwyn for example).

And of course, in the future it wouldn't be problematic to literally deviate from the storyline we are following right now, instead of helping Cait in the begginning, you can choose to ally to the cultists or don't give a fuck and go somewhere else in the world. Start a whole different story line, where the current allies can be your enemies, where the Winter City fell because you were not there to save it, where a lot of friendly faces are now currupt abominations because you either currupted them yourself or wasn't there to help them.

BUT, i won't see it happening right now and neither in the next year. Maybe not even before the game is completed... simple because the devs gives 0 fucks about the game and they don't seen to love their creation and only the money it provides. It's somewhat sickening because CoC has a lot of potential.

 

[fakklan]

And of course, in the future it wouldn't be problematic to literally deviate from the storyline we are following right now, instead of helping Cait in the begginning, you can choose to ally to the cultists or don't give a fuck and go somewhere else in the world.

See, the thing is, this game is set to be NPC, or rather, companion-centered.
Have you noticed how bad combat is, and how little content there is - per NPC - if you're not doing companions?
This game isn't, and never was, about you. It is about the people around you, and that's the worst part.
The PC is a tool to tell the story of NPC OCs of the writers. Your reasons for following the story don't matter, Cait's does. Your reason for fighting a demonised queen of boreal elves doesn't matter, Ryn's does. Orcs? They exist only for an orc futa to have a questline, and to provide some type of npc to generic forest-plains 2.0. Minotaurs? Even more that, except Brint/Brienne has more content than the whole Khor Minos, and minotaurs are even more rapey than corrupted centaurs, which are suppoesd to be the bad, demonic corrupted shit, as opposed to the bastion of rightousness under the mountain (what was the name of the mountain again?). Also, Undermountain and Minos exist only because Fenoxo is a mino simp, and they always end up rapey and cringe; supposed to be a symbol of masculinity and sexiness. Not much to expect from a guy that apparently lives in separation from his wife and kids, at least taking from his posts one has no choice but to see.

If you want a solo story of choice of heroism or villainy, corruption and salvation of the few remaining oases safe from evil, play CoC1, where you have agency over what you want to do and want to be, and play OCA if you want even more freedom and choice of who/what you want to be and do.
If you want a solo story of heroism, gender/racial morphing every day and general fuckery with different cultures and struggles in each place you visit, play TiTS.
If you want a story of forced heroism, OC masturbation and finally getting an update to main story that cut away good 3+ years ago (queen whatever-the-fuck-I-drank-again) for the sake of introducing the glorious overlord's beloved race's homeland and trying to make them cool, just to abandon making content for them, look no further than CoCII.

 

[smithsmithsmith]

Do you get a bad end if you side with the wraith wyld tree in the druid temple? I killed her, but I got curious. I'm also curious about what everyone thinks the best action was towards the fungal dryad.

Fairly sure it's a bad end if you side with her, as for choices it doesn't seem to matter. If you choose to kill her she's grateful, if you leave her it's implied the valks kill her anyway.

 

[Kodek]

See, the thing is, this game is set to be NPC, or rather, companion-centered.
Have you noticed how bad combat is, and how little content there is - per NPC - if you're not doing companions?
This game isn't, and never was, about you. It is about the people around you, and that's the worst part.
The PC is a tool to tell the story of NPC OCs of the writers. Your reasons for following the story don't matter, Cait's does. Your reason for fighting a demonised queen of boreal elves doesn't matter, Ryn's does. Orcs? They exist only for an orc futa to have a questline, and to provide some type of npc to generic forest-plains 2.0. Minotaurs? Even more that, except Brint/Brienne has more content than the whole Khor Minos, and minotaurs are even more rapey than corrupted centaurs, which are suppoesd to be the bad, demonic corrupted shit, as opposed to the bastion of rightousness under the mountain (what was the name of the mountain again?). Also, Undermountain and Minos exist only because Fenoxo is a mino simp, and they always end up rapey and cringe; supposed to be a symbol of masculinity and sexiness. Not much to expect from a guy that apparently lives in separation from his wife and kids, at least taking from his posts one has no choice but to see.

If you want a solo story of choice of heroism or villainy, corruption and salvation of the few remaining oases safe from evil, play CoC1, where you have agency over what you want to do and want to be, and play OCA if you want even more freedom and choice of who/what you want to be and do.
If you want a solo story of heroism, gender/racial morphing every day and general fuckery with different cultures and struggles in each place you visit, play TiTS.
If you want a story of forced heroism, OC masturbation and finally getting an update to main story that cut away good 3+ years ago (queen whatever-the-fuck-I-drank-again) for the sake of introducing the glorious overlord's beloved race's homeland and trying to make them cool, just to abandon making content for them, look no further than CoCII.

It's just about the money for them. Scenes with 'cool' characters and 'sexy' characters gives stupid people reason to donate. Really trying to make the game be immersive, even with said characters, is just a chore most don't want to do.

Like really, even if the game is about the characters, their personality is already stabilished and your ''''''choices'''''' only serves to influence how they look in terms of dick, thickness, boobs or to choose between they being sub/dom/slutty/slave-y etc
You have no control of the game whatsoever it's a fucking visual novel with simpleminded combat and too much text. But it's too damn annoying to see how EASY you could make the game be about the player choices rather than a script with just some work from the gigantic team that are sucking on CoCs tits for an endless suply of money. That IF they cared.

And the few that cares are either shutted up by the rest or receive no resources. Or even worse, they are Tobs like that care just TOO much about his OCs to the point that they are boring, annoying and mostly non-intaracable other than choosing what position in the sex scene you want to, so you can read HOW much a half-burnt woman accepts herself and is happy... in every fucking scene.

 

[Lucky_I]

Make it so that the MC is a foreigner that goes to Savarra(?) looking for adventure

Page 2, paragraph 2 after starting a new game: "Nearly a year ago, you set off on your own, leaving your former life behind to seek your fortunes on the wild frontier — a year of traveling, exploring, fighting, and surviving alone. You've earned yourself a little coin in your travels, enough to book passage to the furthest reaches of the known world: the Frost Marches."

 

[Axvz]

We then have legit CRPGs like Pathfinder or Baldur's Gate, which let you have ENOURMOUS customizability of PC and a massive array of choices that is borderline terrifying. Those games takes years to make for a reason and probably require a very specific writing style to make sure the story still flows well despite those choices possibly derailing all written content.

Yeah this writing style is called "go fuck yourself with your choices since almost none of them matter". I mean mostly pathfinder since I cant remember much shit about bg 1-2 and the third one is ea at this moment. Back to pathfinder and "meaningful" companions..
First things first, they are not. You can freely ignore their existence completely if not interested. Their personal questlines won't affect anything in any way. You will have to do all this stuff for gameplay wise reasons like not losing additional experience and firepower that's it.
But when one of them is the only way to get some plot progression game will force this shit upon you like it did with this piece of anime fanservice called arueshalae. Bitch, i tried to kill you, remember? Why would you want my damn help?
And that's only about party members. I don't want to discuss troubles with main plot and "meaningful" choices for this probably being too offtop. And because of my unskilled english as well.
Though i agree that's the way CoC2 mc and other stuff is written is.. not really perfect. But i can't see any real way to get rid of it without kicking out every other writer you personally disagree with and rewriting entire game. Or adding bunch of fallout 4 typical replies like "totally yes/ironically yes/i disagree but yes anyway".

 

[Quintilus]

Wait wait wait wait wait, what does the beginning of a gaym says!?

Spoiler

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Cool, cool, yeee, yee... explains how and why first game was functioning, on a lore level.
And what does demonic horse dong says about it? Only the important bits here, without any character development shit

Spoiler

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DOES THAT MEAN ONE PART OF A GAME CONTRADICTS WITH OTHER????7777
NO WAY THATS POSSIBLE!!!!11111
SOMEBODY SHOULD FIX IT!!!!11111
CALL THE NASTY-MINDED PSYCHIC VAMPIRE!!!!11111

 

[Alterism]

The nail in the coffin of writing mistake is Kasyrra being from the beginning a world ending threat in a world where gods and powerful champions exist, aware of her existence but not insta killed.

That's probably the least egregious part since it's clear that half of it is all done with assistance of Tollus apparently expansive network of cultists that have escaped notice in every region of the world with near perfect subterfuge after getting single handedly spanked by Gweyr.

Jokes aside, I don't find much wrong with the concept or even the premise. Personally, my issue is, and always has been, with the overall execution and the overarching narrative.

since almost none of them matter"

Spoiler: "quick" off-topic Pathfinder Tangent

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is.. not really perfect.

Bit of an understatement.

But i can't see any real way to get rid of it without kicking out every other writer you personally disagree with and rewriting entire game. Or adding bunch of fallout 4 typical replies like "totally yes/ironically yes/i disagree but yes anyway".

I'm not going to get too "meta" here. But if people actually did any bit of planning there wouldn't be complaints here. Bubs still not getting wrangled just shows the power of friendship I guess. (On the assumption bubs is still there, at any rate).
Anyways why would it be a bunch of fallout typical replies? It's not as if there hasn't been two other text based porn games that handled player agency better without resorting to tools that rely on you being a mindless yesman.

Which is a bit of a redundant statement to begin with, given both Yes and No in the below example are meaningless and leads to the same text output.

As do most of your "choices" in this game.

 

[MoneyMan181]

Wait wait wait wait wait, what does the beginning of a gaym says!?

Spoiler

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Cool, cool, yeee, yee... explains how and why first game was functioning, on a lore level.
And what does demonic horse dong says about it? Only the important bits here, without any character development shit

Spoiler

You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.

DOES THAT MEAN ONE PART OF A GAME CONTRADICTS WITH OTHER????7777
NO WAY THATS POSSIBLE!!!!11111
SOMEBODY SHOULD FIX IT!!!!11111
CALL THE NASTY-MINDED PSYCHIC VAMPIRE!!!!11111

>Can't even make the non-existent storyline of the first game line up with your own.

Not really surprising tbh. None of the regular writers for this game know how to do anything other than write sex scenes. It's almost like Fenoxo knew people weren't here for whatever shitty story he could come up with and thus didn't really bother with one!